CV Rework Discussion

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

the carrier specialist has been publicly seen in a target practice ship with strong AAA.

 

Flint AA isn't that good tho. 

[mcboernester]

New Numbers from Marple. CV numbers are going down again, hightier DDs are recovering. Nice reeework you got there weegee 

 

[AndyHill]

Way back when, decades ago when I was decades younger, there was a rule of thumb about tuning mopeds: if you lost less than 10% of your horsepower during the tuning process, it could be considered a success. Perhaps WG might still be able to claim success with the carrier rework after all.

[1MajorKoenig]

23 minutes ago, mcboernester said:

New Numbers from Marple. CV numbers are going down again, hightier DDs are recovering. Nice reeework you got there weegee 

 

 

Shouldn’t come as a surprise. But hey - I am sure the next two / three (if they mess up spotting too) nerfs will stabilize the population. Soon there will be a very small group of people playing the class (still decent) and everyone else got put off... ah wait 

[MadnerKami]

Nah, all is fine, as long as 22% of the players play their CV once a week. In Coop, just to do a mission.

[KillStealBoss]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Flint AA isn't that good tho. 

The def AA of it should be buffed. The Atlanta one too. Those are AA cruisers!

[Panocek]

12 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

The def AA of it should be buffed. The Atlanta one too. Those are AA cruisers!

Its already unlimited, how more pew pew you want

[KillStealBoss]

6 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Its already unlimited, how more pew pew you want

Like Friesland +200% 

Oh and 40 sec reload like the heal on Georgia/Massachusetts 

[Smeggo]

Vor 2 Stunden, mcboernester sagte:

New Numbers from Marple. CV numbers are going down again, hightier DDs are recovering. Nice reeework you got there weegee 

 

...

As we saw on the CC-summit, they fight this by using "creative statistics" - counting every player with at least 1 coop CV-match per week as "CV-player". And adding bot-CVs. 

In reality, I'm not sure how they will test the upcoming AA-buffs, when there are no planes to shoot down. 

[artic_99]

Vor 12 Minuten, Smeggo sagte:

As we saw on the CC-summit, they fight this by using "creative statistics" - counting every player with at least 1 coop CV-match per week as "CV-player". And adding bot-CVs. 

In reality, I'm not sure how they will test the upcoming AA-buffs, when there are no planes to shoot down. 

I provide them with planes to shot down :) at least as long I can have an impact on the game which is after 8.7 not given anymore 

 

Vor 1 Stunde, MacArthur92 sagte:

Like Friesland +200% 

Oh and 40 sec reload like the heal on Georgia/Massachusetts 

Activated once it will last 10 mins with a 1000%dmg buff as aa is way to weak. 

[KillStealBoss]

10 hours ago, artic_99 said:

Activated once it will last 10 mins with a 1000%dmg buff as aa is way to weak. 

Flint and Atlanta were T7 no-fly zone. Now they are pathetic. Those are fully AA cruisers so they must be the bane of T6-8 CV. 

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Flint and Atlanta were T7 no-fly zone. Now they are pathetic. Those are fully AA cruisers so they must be three bane of T6-8 CV. 

Not quite. They had excellent for a tier long range, but next to no short/mid range. If anything, due to everyone speccing AFT and AA range upgrade you could almost count on them having 7.2km DFAA scatter area

[KillStealBoss]

3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Not quite. They had excellent for a tier long range, but next to no short/mid range. If anything, due to everyone speccing AFT and AA range upgrade you could almost count on them having 7.2km DFAA scatter area

Yep and since puffs can be avoided the long range isn't a big of a threat. While flint has some good midrange, Atlanta... Eh. Yeah. That's why I think they need that +200% instead of 100%. People still need ifhe+AFT+CE. Can't get the manual AA on it without sacrificing one of these. 

[artic_99]

Vor 1 Minute, MacArthur92 sagte:

Flint and Atlanta were T7 no-fly zone. Now they are pathetic. Those are fully AA cruisers so they must be three bane of T6-8 CV. 

At least for t6 they are.... But Idk and idc as aa is in its most powerful state since ever. I never got 30+plane kills in my Yama before the rework. The cv rework is [edited]. End. The 8.5 changes are far away from being fair for anyone. Why not just reintroduce panic mode for Def aa instead of making attacks kamikaze attacks would be more satisfieing then what we have right now. It's playable yes but if the game is shorter then 15 mins it's doomed to be a crap game thanks to the cv has the most influence in late game. Sorry the gameplay is so flawed right now. I'd rather miss an attack thanks to Def aa than losing 12 planes:P it's just no fun gameplay if you can't avoid dmg but have a quite good chance to score dmg once you learned how to aim. Idk if that's good but hey it's just frust I release since I had 7 games in cv that lasted just 10 mins due to one team played like crap. 

[KillStealBoss]

Just now, artic_99 said:

At least for t6 they are.... But Idk and idc as aa is in its most powerful state since ever. I never got 30+plane kills in my Yama before the rework. The cv rework is [edited]. End. The 8.5 changes are far away from being fair for anyone. Why not just reintroduce panic mode for Def aa instead of making attacks kamikaze attacks would be more satisfieing then what we have right now. It's playable yes but if the game is shorter then 15 mins it's doomed to be a crap game thanks to the cv has the most influence in late game. Sorry the gameplay is so flawed right now. I'd rather miss an attack thanks to Def aa than losing 12 planes:P it's just no fun gameplay if you can't avoid dmg but have a quite good chance to score dmg once you learned how to aim. Idk if that's good but hey it's just frust I release since I had 7 games in cv that lasted just 10 mins due to one team played like crap. 

Well because Yama has tons of short-range AA. Tones of it. Atlanta doesn't have. Since you can't get manual AA on it (AFT still a must cause no range without it at all) there's a big lack in AA performance on Atlanta and Flint . 

[B051LjKo]

5 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Shouldn’t come as a surprise. But hey - I am sure the next two / three (if they mess up spotting too) nerfs will stabilize the population. Soon there will be a very small group of people playing the class (still decent) and everyone else got put off... ah wait 

I agree, what I think is happening that people are realizing how overpowered CVs  really are, and refuse to play them not to screw up the game. It is just too easy to play. Players need more challenge. After a few more nerfs, I think CVs will be more challenging to play, and we will see the population going back to where WG wants it to be. Increased DPS, new manual AA mechanic will help, but I thin we also need limited fuel, global nerf on airplane HP, longer take off / recovery times (you shouldn't really be able to recover and launch at the same time). And also, I think spotting should be removed. There were not data link back there, so I think CVs should use the radio to report to the team what they saw and where. 

[MadnerKami]

1 hour ago, B051LjKo said:

I agree, what I think is happening that people are realizing how overpowered CVs  really are, and refuse to play them not to screw up the game. It is just too easy to play. Players need more challenge. After a few more nerfs, I think CVs will be more challenging to play, and we will see the population going back to where WG wants it to be. Increased DPS, new manual AA mechanic will help, but I thin we also need limited fuel, global nerf on airplane HP, longer take off / recovery times (you shouldn't really be able to recover and launch at the same time). And also, I think spotting should be removed. There were not data link back there, so I think CVs should use the radio to report to the team what they saw and where. 

You choose your avatar wisely, potato.

[Sunleader]

Lets See.
 

Last Week

 

This Week.

 

Lets Check the Changes.

Pls note I will only Consider the High Tier cause the Low Tier is roughly the same with some Exceptions. But its not worth doing a whole Second Set.

 

1.

There was a Player Increase all Across the Board.

This is Partially also due to the Event currently Going on.

Most People have Completed the Directives that are Opened and thus have Returned to Normal Battles.

 

So Players with enough Games to be Counted have Increased: (Please note I.ll only use Rough Percentage as I am too lazy to make a Detailed Calculation.)

BBs by 13%

CAs by 14%

CVs by 8%

DDs by 18%

 

Its Pretty Clear however that the other Classes are Recovering more Players than the CVs.

So CVs seem to have become less Attractive.

 

 

2.

In terms of Performance of CVs compared to other Classes however.  There is very little actual Movement.

 

CVs are still Dominating the vast Majority of Statistic Boards.

Just as before. The only thing where CVs are not the Top Dog is on Average Damage which goes to BBs. Base Capture which is the sole Top Position of DDs.

 

So even after 0.8.5 CVs are Still Overperforming by a Large margin. And are still in need of Nerfs.

 

[XHellCrusaderX]

Vor 20 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

Lets See.
 

Last Week

 

This Week.

 

Lets Check the Changes.

Pls note I will only Consider the High Tier cause the Low Tier is roughly the same with some Exceptions. But its not worth doing a whole Second Set.

 

1.

There was a Player Increase all Across the Board.

This is Partially also due to the Event currently Going on.

Most People have Completed the Directives that are Opened and thus have Returned to Normal Battles.

 

So Players with enough Games to be Counted have Increased: (Please note I.ll only use Rough Percentage as I am too lazy to make a Detailed Calculation.)

BBs by 13%

CAs by 14%

CVs by 8%

DDs by 18%

 

Its Pretty Clear however that the other Classes are Recovering more Players than the CVs.

So CVs seem to have become less Attractive.

 

 

2.

In terms of Performance of CVs compared to other Classes however.  There is very little actual Movement.

 

CVs are still Dominating the vast Majority of Statistic Boards.

Just as before. The only thing where CVs are not the Top Dog is on Average Damage which goes to BBs. Base Capture which is the sole Top Position of DDs.

 

So even after 0.8.5 CVs are Still Overperforming by a Large margin. And are still in need of Nerfs.

 

You only forget one little thing, the event!

Wait and see how many play them after the Rogue Wave Event.
Just to mention the 20k FreeEXP for each class!
That´s the simple point, you are missing in your last week stats ;)

I know some playing CVs only for Clanrounds, Event, and coop 1st win bonus. Just to think about that!

All points and all stats can be shown nicely as long as all points haven´t been counted.
But the real truth will be shown after the event in 8 days. And then i would prefer you to post the stats again.
Let´s say in 15 days. I doubt that you will post it then ;) 
 

[B051LjKo]

56 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

CVs are still Dominating the vast Majority of Statistic Boards.

Just as before. The only thing where CVs are not the Top Dog is on Average Damage which goes to BBs. Base Capture which is the sole Top Position of DDs.

 

So even after 0.8.5 CVs are Still Overperforming by a Large margin. And are still in need of Nerfs.

 

CVs need to be nerfed . They can not dominate all of the statistic boards. Damage needs to go down, and spotting need to go down. They need to be like other ships. Then we can remoev this stupid soft cap thing. If there can be 5 BBs in one match, and they are the biggest damage dealers, I don't see a reason not to have 5 CVs. Nerfs are required for proper ingame balance. CVs can't be answer to all. A good DD needs to be able o outplay and kill a CV. This what we have now is just wrong.

[Sunleader]

11 minutes ago, XHellCrusaderX said:

You only forget one little thing, the event!

Wait and see how many play them after the Rogue Wave Event.
That´s the simple point, you are missing in your last week stats ;)

I know some playing CVs only for Clanrounds, Event, and coop 1st win bonus. Just to think about that!

All points and all stats can be shown nicely as long as all points haven´t been counted.
But the real truth will be shown after the event. And then i would prefer you to post the stats again.
I doubt that you will post it then ;)

 

1.

I actually Explicitly Pointed out the Event earlier.

And I also Explicitly Pointed it out in the current Post.

 

So Maybe you Should actually Read the Post before you make such Accusations.

 

2.

The Real Truth....

This Statement somehow this Reminds of Trumps Alternative Facts.... xD

 

I see no Reason why I should not Post these Stats after the Rogue Event is over.

In Fact I am Planning to Post them not just after the Rogue Event but also after 0.8.6 and especially after the Big AA Change thats Supposed to come with 0.8.7.

I would be more than Happy to Report if CVs would Drop in Performance and Stop being the Dominat Class in almost everything.

 

 

2.1

But Mate dont get me wrong there.

If your Hoping that there will be any very Big Changes after the Rogue Event. I have to Dissappoint you.

Because the General Performance will not Change from that at all.

The only thing Changing will be Returning Players.

Which are already Lower for CVs and likely wont get Bigger after Rogue Event either.

 

 

2.2

The 0.8.6 Update has a Chance to Decrease CV Performance by a very Small Amount.

Making the Ticks more Consistent and removing the Delay for them.

Means that CVs will get more of an Effect when Crossing the Long Range AA Aura.

But the Long Range AA is Usually not very Strong in the First Place.

So the Effect will be very Limited.

 

 

2.3

In the 0.8.7 Update this is Different. The Update has a Chance to Tremendously Shift CV Performance into an Direction.

The Direction itself however Depends on how WG will Implement the System.

 

Just how Much Damage will the Manual Flak Burst Do when its used Right.

How long will the Efficiency Increase Hold and how long will it take for the other Side to Regain Efficiency.

How long will the Cooldown for the Manual Flak Burst be.

And will there be any Corresponding Buffs/Nerfs to the AAs DPS itself in Addition to this.

 

 

3.

The Big Change Standing in the Room.

 

3.1

From what we know so far. The Flak Burst is Supposed to Deal an Instant Percentile Amount of Damage based on the Squadron Type.

Now if we Assume this is around 5% Then this Flak Burst will not even Shoot Down a Single Aircraft.  Because Squadrons are usually 8, 9 or 12 Aircraft.

And even on the 12 Aircraft Squadron. 5% is not Enough to even Shoot down a Single Aircraft.

Now lets stay with the 12 Aircraft Squadron.

At 10% there would be 1 Aircraft Killed. And some Light Damage to the Next.

At 20% it would be 2 Aircraft Killed and Medium Damage to the Next.

At 30% it would be 3 Aircraft Killed and more than 50% Damage on the Next one.

At 40% it would be 4 Aircraft Killed and the next would be in the Red as well.

At 50% it would Finally mean that 6 Aircraft are Killed.

 

Now you can Assume it will not be 50%

WG wants this to have an Visual Effect.

So it likely wont be 5% either.

Meaning that very Likely. WG will go for the 10% Mark and Basicly make this Manual Burst Shoot Down 1 Aircraft by Default.

So that there is an Visual Confirmation for the Player that he Hit the Squadron.

 

The Manual AA Skill will likely Increase this to 2 Aircraft being Shot Down Instantly.

 

 

Now as can be Seen rather Easily.

This will not make much of a Change at all for Single Ships.

Because the Damage will be Rather Small and not that much of a Difference to the CV.

But it does Change the Dynamic of Blobs alot.

Because a Blob of 4-5 Ships might just Instantly Delete Half a Squadron of Aircraft.

As you get 4-5 of these Bursts Straight Away.

 

3.2

After that Instant Flak Burst the Sector will Increase Efficiency at the Expense of the other Sector.

Now this will likely Turn out to be a Nerf to AA.

 

Because Currently. When the Aircraft Come you got them in the Sector Already.

So they Take Full Increased Damage all the Way to You.

And a Player who wants to get the Maximum out of it.

Will give the Command to Change the Sector before the Enemy Aircraft Passed him.

So the Enemy Aircraft Pass him and then are Instantly back in Fully Reinforced AA.

 

But with the New System this wont be Possible.

You have to Wait for the Aircraft to Enter your AA Range to the Damage from the Flak Burst.

So you cant have the Sector Reinforced before the Enemy Comes into it.

Means your losing alot of DPs in Exchange for that Flak Burst because afterwards the Sector only Increased Slowly up to the Reinforced Status while the Enemy is already inside it.

 

And after that you Face a Second Problem.

Which is that the Sector has a Set Time on that Side. You cannot Change it back Manually.

You have to Wait for it to go back to Normal. And then it has a Cooldown on top of that.

Which means that once the Reinforced Sector is passed. The Enemy will be in Weakened or at worst Normal AA.

 

Thus Greatly Reducing the General DPS that AA could Achieve before.

 

3.3

Due to the Manual Nature of this. It also means that there will be Instances where AA will be Passed entirely without it being Activated.

Because the Player didnt Notice the Incoming Squadron.

Or because he was in Battle and could not afford to turn around to the Aircraft.

 

Unlike before. Where you Set your AA Sector to the Direction of the Enemy and thus would usually have Full AA Sector Facing the Incoming Aircraft without any extra Action.

You now have to Set it entirely yourself each time Again.

And if the Enemy makes a Second Pass you also need to make a Second Activation.

 

Add to that. That a Player Noticing the Aircraft Late and Activation the Sector Late. Might actually Hurt his own AA.

Because the Aircraft pass him as his other AA Sector is Starting to Drain.

 

3.4

In Total I think this will be a Good Thing however.

It will bring some Actual Play and Counterplay.

Because CVs might Choose to Try and Bait People into using the Flak Burst Early by Turning Away Short before the Enemy Flak Range.

So they then Can Dive into the Weakened AA during Cooldown.

Meanwhile Some Ships might Decide to Wait with the Flak Burst till the Enemy Squadron has Passed to get a Devastating Strike on the Weakened Squadron.

Or they might Gamble a bit and Activate the Manual Strike when they See a Large Damage Number from Heavy AA Hit Flying Up.

Because according to WG the Burst will try to Kill as many Aircraft as Possible. And thus will Apply the Damage to Aircraft in Order of Lower HP.

So if a Flak Burst Damaged Several Aircraft. The Flak Burst might Result in Instantly Shooting Down Several Aircraft at Once.

 

It will also Punish CVs that are Turning Inside AA Range of Enemy Ships and thus will be Subjected to a Second Burst.

 

As Continues DPS will be Nerfed by this Automaticly due to no longer being able to have Reinforced Sector towards the Enemy CV at all time. It will also make Weak AA Stronger and Strong AA Weaker.

Reducing the Current Stigmata of some AA Cruisers being very Dangerous to CVs while other Ships AA can be Ignored mostly.

 

In Total these Changes might allow for some Actual Gameplay between CVs and Surface Ships instead of it being only Gameplay on the CV Side and the Surface Ship having to Rely on Automatic Systems.

 

[1MajorKoenig]

7 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

Yep and since puffs can be avoided the long range isn't a big of a threat

 

You state this as a given. I would be highly curious what the global ratio between Flak cloud damage to DPS is. I don’t think it is as insignificant as you assume.

 

You are again trying to balance a class based on the best players - what is bull- and would take us to a very dark place we have been before. 

[KillStealBoss]

30 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

You state this as a given. I would be highly curious what the global ratio between Flak cloud damage to DPS is. I don’t think it is as insignificant as you assume.

 

You are again trying to balance a class based on the best players - what is bull- and would take us to a very dark place we have been before. 

I'm just talking about this 2 ships. Which are mainly AA cruisers and in RTS times they were doing their job. These days they aren't good at it anymore and this should be changed

[Sunleader]

49 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

You state this as a given. I would be highly curious what the global ratio between Flak cloud damage to DPS is. I don’t think it is as insignificant as you assume.

 

You are again trying to balance a class based on the best players - what is bull- and would take us to a very dark place we have been before. 

 

I am not a Fan of Balancing things based on the Best Players.

But Sorry. A Minimum can be Expected. And if someone cant even Evade Heavy AA then he Deserves to get his Squadron Killed.

 

DDs Torps dont get their Damage Nerfed into Oblivion just because some of the BB Players have not Learned that Driving in a Straight Line for Extended Periods of Time is a Bad Idea.

Neither are DDs getting their Hull Buffed to Cruiser HP just because some DDs have not yet Learned that they should wait for the BB to Fire before Turning Sidewards to Torp a BB in close Range.

We are also not Removing Citadels from Cruisers just because some Cruisers think that the Best Choice of Action against an Enemy BB is to Drive Flat Broadside to it and open Fire from 10km away.

 

So no offense. But I really think. That we can Expect from CVs that they dont just Yolo their Squadrons into Heavy AA.

 

 

 

 

[1MajorKoenig]

1 hour ago, MacArthur92 said:

I'm just talking about this 2 ships. Which are mainly AA cruisers and in RTS times they were doing their job. These days they aren't good at it anymore and this should be changed

 

No you said Flak clouds can be dodged and therefor don’t count in the overall AA equation. And I am highly doubtful about that if you look at ALL players (not the top 100) and I am challenging this on the broader perspective.