CV Rework Discussion

[Sunleader]

7 minutes ago, DuainHicks said:

Thanks for all the advice, I will put them into practice, when I can reset the ZP skills, I have 19 points in this one.
And the equipment is similar to the one I already use.

 

Oh a 19 Point Captain thats Nice for this.

GZ is Best with alot of Skills.

 

Small Extra Advice.

A Mistake I constantly See people make.

They Attack the Outmost Ship of a Blob. Then after the Attack Fly past that Ship Cross right into the Blob. And then Press F.

Needless to say. A Short Moment later all their Aircraft Fall from the Sky and barely any (if any) Come Home.

 

 

If you want Aircraft to Survive.

Dont Press F in the Middle of a Blob.

 

Best Option is to Attack from an Angle when afterwards you can Boost right of the Blob.

Then Press F after you left the Range of the AA.

 

Most of the Return Losses are from Heavy AA because Returning Aircraft dont Evade.

So you can often Cut Losses Massively by making sure to not Press F before you have left the Danger Area.

 

If you cant Attack from an Angle where afterwards you can Boost out of the Blob. But want to Attack anyways.

Then dont Press F Either. Just Boost and Dive Down right on the next Target with whatever remains of your Squadron.

This way at least you get something out of that Squadrons Death :)

 

Funny Enough. But currently the Two Biggest things that Break the Neck of less Skilled CV Players.

Are

1.

The Lack of Evasion because People dont Understand Heavy AA and Just Fly Straight thus getting their Squadron Deleted in Seconds.

2.

The Lack of Loss Management Skills.

Not Only are Players often not using the Regeneration of Planes Properly and thus get less Reserves than they could have.

But they also for some Reason tend to only consider the Attack as Part of Gameplay and dont Pay any Attention to how the Planes are getting Back.

Thus often not getting any Planes back at all as they all get Massacred upon Returning....

[Sunleader]

24 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

New numbers on maplesyrup are out btw. A maximum of 2456 players played CVs last week (1212 high tier, 1244 low tier). This is marginally better than last week so I don't believe we'll see any gigantic leaps anytime soon.

 

I for one am happy to see this garbage pile crash and burn. It deserved nothing less.

 

Well. It does Seem however that Some of the Skilled Players have Returned.

I actually got 5k more Score than last Week. But Despite that Dropped down to Place 99 in the Rankings ^^

So alot of these Players that Returned seem to be the somewhat Better CV Players that threw a Tantrum after 0.8.5 *gg*

 

 

[1MajorKoenig]

2 hours ago, Panocek said:

Thats tied to connection quality

 

How can this be a latency issue? I mean there are games where parts of a second matter so much more than in this slow old fart‘s shooter. I don’t buy that. I think it’s just poorly implemented

[Panocek]

Just now, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

How can this be a latency issue? I mean there are games where parts of a second matter so much more than in this slow old fart‘s shooter. I don’t buy that. I think it’s just poorly implemented

Plane behavior of packet loss should give you indication of WG "lag compensation"

[1MajorKoenig]

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

That would depend on the implementation of mechanics now, doesn't it?

Removing flak is about the only thing you can still do that makes a concession to casuals without compromising game balance. And considering the mechanic itself is horribly designed, buggy to the extreme and does nothing but serve as a basic skill check there is literally no reason to keep it.

 

It’s scenic and it forces players to do something on the approach. Otherwise it would be only flaying in a straight line as fast as possible to get out of these monkey mechanics aura 

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

It’s scenic and it forces players to do something on the approach. Otherwise it would be only flaying in a straight line as fast as possible to get out of these monkey mechanics aura 

Well, RTS was all about get-in get-out with minute aiming adjustments, so...

[El2aZeR]

Just now, 1MajorKoenig said:

It’s scenic and it forces players to do something on the approach.

 

So basically "muh immersion" (which honestly shouldn't even be that high considering flak behaves in a completely unrealistic manner) and something that may as well be worthless in the face of the annoyances its implementation creates.

I still see nothing that needs to be kept. Flak should be cosmetic only. Just render surface ship flak for CVs and its all good.

[1MajorKoenig]

3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

So basically "muh immersion" (which honestly shouldn't even be that high considering flak behaves in a completely unrealistic manner) and something that may as well be worthless in the face of the annoyances its implementation creates.

I still see nothing that needs to be kept. Flak should be cosmetic only. Just render surface ship flak for CVs and its all good.

 

“Muh immersion” is indeed the big point about this whole story.

 

And yes - “good” implementation would solve soooo many issues

 

 

5 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Well, RTS was all about get-in get-out with minute aiming adjustments, so...

 

For that system the auras might have been just good enough. After the rework it’s sh*** 

[1MajorKoenig]

9 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Plane behavior of packet loss should give you indication of WG "lag compensation"

 

I still don’t understand how this can be an issue in such a slow game ?

[El2aZeR]

16 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

“Muh immersion” is indeed the big point about this whole story.

 

Immersion went out of the window when CVs went from actual aircraft carriers to insert coin plane dispensers. I honestly don't get why people believe new CV gameplay to be more immersive when it is exactly the opposite on practically every level. Naturally this includes how flak works.

 

16 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

And yes - “good” implementation would solve soooo many issues

 

And I can only ask again, what is a "good" implementation of flak mechanics?

Reminder that putting everything up to RNG to negate all player skill on both sides is horrible. And because this is a server sided game some mechanics such as flak damage and rendering separation cannot simply be "made better".

[1MajorKoenig]

9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Immersion went out of the window when CVs went from actual aircraft carriers to insert coin plane dispensers

 

Where I agree is that plane losses should be sanctioned harder but on the other hand it should be possible to mitigate plane losses. The current direction isn’t good 

[CptBarney]

53 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

I still don’t understand how this can be an issue in such a slow game ?

Its not that slow of game, its just slower paced compared to twitch shooters, but not being able to react in time still f*cks you over more often than not in this game.

 

also with planes since you need to dodge flak and is the more twictchy aspect of this game any lag spikes or stutters could mess up your aim, squadron or both which will have knock on effects later on in said battle.

 

also it's just bloody annoying in general.

[El2aZeR]

47 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Where I agree is that plane losses should be sanctioned harder but on the other hand it should be possible to mitigate plane losses. The current direction isn’t good 

 

Meh, it was inevitable we'd end up here tbh what with WG having absolutely no clue where to take this glorious rework they've forced upon us. At this point it just looks like they're throwing  at a wall and hope something sticks.

[Panocek]

23 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Meh, it was inevitable we'd end up here tbh what with WG having absolutely no clue where to take this glorious rework they've forced upon us. At this point it just looks like they're throwing  at a wall and hope something sticks.

Sounds remarkably Russian, doesn't it?

[KillStealBoss]

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Oh a 19 Point Captain thats Nice for this.

GZ is Best with alot of Skills.

 

I have 19 pointer on GZ even before it was available. In total 72 commanders with 19 points 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Immersion went out of the window when CVs went from actual aircraft carriers to insert coin plane dispensers. I honestly don't get why people believe new CV gameplay to be more immersive when it is exactly the opposite on practically every level. Naturally this includes how flak works.

 

As someone who plays for fun and immersion over grinding, maximizing, collecting and completion, I fully agree. The current implementation of CV's couldn't be less immersive to me. No pretty puff in the sky takes away the feeling of playing something coded for mobile platforms, people with attention span issues and instant gratification junkies. The animations of the planes, the way they move, take off and land, how we interact with them, which planes are targeted, how fighter planes are spawned, how AA is divided in 2 sectors etc. is primitive, lacks any refinement and looks like code and animation just left a prototyping stage.

[Sunleader]

22 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

I have 19 pointer on GZ even before it was available. In total 72 commanders with 19 points 

 

You guys all Play way tooo much for me lol.

[KillStealBoss]

4 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

You guys all Play way tooo much for me lol.

Sorry for offtop but it's 3 hours daily on work days and overall 5-7 hours on weekends. 

Back to topic - GZ needs another 4 points to be useful into the secondary thing.

[CaptainOkita]

35 minutes ago, Europizza said:

As someone who plays for fun and immersion over grinding, maximizing, collecting and completion, I fully agree. The current implementation of CV's couldn't be less immersive to me. No pretty puff in the sky takes away the feeling of playing something coded for mobile platforms, people with attention span issues and instant gratification junkies. The animations of the planes, the way they move, take off and land, how we interact with them, which planes are targeted, how fighter planes are spawned, how AA is divided in 2 sectors etc. is primitive, lacks any refinement and looks like code and animation just left a prototyping stage.

Sorry to repeat myself but its too damn ironic not to mention wows mobile has rts. Just no strafes. Does WG think pc players have less an attention span than mobile?

[1MajorKoenig]

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Meh, it was inevitable we'd end up here tbh what with WG having absolutely no clue where to take this glorious rework they've forced upon us. At this point it just looks like they're throwing  at a wall and hope something sticks.

 

If they woudl stop with These stupid hotnerfs that hollow out everything the rework is supposed to be it would be a good start

[Eddy209]

6 hours ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

No it’s not! It is one of the biggest stupidities about AA that it “shoots” through mountains. 

 

 

Well that is true sometimes because the animation is already playing and because your planes were spottet so make sure you dont have line of sight to the target - use the minimap to get your bearings before your planes go over the top of the island. High islands are always better.

 

 

 

About the immersion thing,  I do like the new system more than the old one but i guess that is subjective. 

In the CV rework I do like the fact that you are there with your planes and you can see your target. Tbf the old rts thing was way more realistic but I for one found it to be rather bland and boring. The new AA visualls look nicer too imho. 

Again , a  subjective thing. 

 

Balancing the game for everything is fortunatly not my job, and I for one am happy i dont have to be a community manager for wg these days. 

But having followed that topic for a while , there are some good sugestions to balance things out. 

Thing is , what people understand under the word balance is rather subjective as well.

Take the DDs for example,

they suffered alot under the new CVs , at first because they were easier to kill, now mostly because other targets seem less apealing  especialy early game.

I wonder if it was intentional, considering their population was quite high to a point where they even aplied a soft cap of 4 DDs max per side. 

To some degree one could asume it is intentional to some degree because DDs have alot of influence when it comes to scouting, capping , high alpha potential and the option to deny the enemy the same benefits by killing the other teams DDs. Not to mention smoke as cover etc.

To some degree I think it is good to make DDs less apealing to the players by having a very powerfull tool like CVs against them,

because cruisers mostly do little to counter DDs these days other than providing radar now and then.

The amount of frustration DD players had to go through however , thats something I personaly found to be way over the top. But somthing like that is to a degree to be expected when the meta shifts radically.

Balancing  doesnt have to mean to keep everything within the existing meta - if their goal is something else .

Speculation I know but imho it fits. 

Still , its no matter as it rather failed to deliver, as cv player numbers nowadays are not high enough to change the game anymore. The fact that I like to play them means nothing in the wider picture.

 

All in all.

I do not expect alot of rebalancing after the AA changes to be honest. Like I said before, I think CV population will go down even more, therefore we will have happier surface ship players. And then after a while alot of them will leave their AA builts at home because they have overcome the CV shock. Than its again a minority that plays CV who will have an easier time again. Then the circle is complete.

 

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

56 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

If they woudl stop with These stupid hotnerfs that hollow out everything the rework is supposed to be it would be a good start

The rework was already hollow and shallow, the nerfs make it painfull because the gratification of playing spam enhanced bully everyone class has dissapated.

[1MajorKoenig]

3 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Meh, it was inevitable we'd end up here tbh what with WG having absolutely no clue where to take this glorious rework they've forced upon us. At this point it just looks like they're throwing  at a wall and hope something sticks.

 

Isn’t that hard. They could take a look at it, play it themselves and do good adjustments rather than bad adjustments 

[B051LjKo]

6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Well. It does Seem however that Some of the Skilled Players have Returned.

I actually got 5k more Score than last Week. But Despite that Dropped down to Place 99 in the Rankings ^^

So alot of these Players that Returned seem to be the somewhat Better CV Players that threw a Tantrum after 0.8.5 *gg*

 

 

Naah, I would say that is the indication of the 8.5 buff to the CVs. They are clearly still OP as hell. Recalculation of the AAA damage was perceived as a nerf, but it forced people to play more consciously, so it ended u being a buff, as seen on your example. More nerfs are needed for the health of the game.  

[AndyHill]

Live now: the carrier specialist has been publicly seen in a target practice ship with strong AAA. Can there be a more certain sign of carriers having been overnerfed? Will he survive the shame of getting caught in public in a surface ship?