CV Rework Discussion

[KillStealBoss]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Well, that'll never happen because lol odd tier CVs.

You could make her straight up into a T10 premium with a few minor changes, but that'll mean WG can't sell her in the premium shop anymore.

Unless WG wants to break their "no T10 premiums in shop" policy as well ofc.

Yes this is the problem. Though if they would make less alpha dmg on bombs (4.5k per bomb instead of 5.9k ) and nerf the rockets a bit , then it could fit the T8 better. 

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Yes this is the problem. Though if they would make less alpha dmg on bombs (4.5k per bomb instead of 5.9k ) and nerf the rockets a bit , then it could fit the T8 better. 

 

Can't happen either because premium CVs are now balans camrade!

[KillStealBoss]

11 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Can't happen either because premium CVs are now balans camrade!

Lol don't think so. GZ is constantly changed. They can change anything till 0.8.7 . You never know. 

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

Lol don't think so. GZ is constantly changed. They can change anything till 0.8.7 . You never know. 

 

As of 0.8.3 premium CVs can be buffed, but they can no longer be nerfed.

[Sunleader]

8 hours ago, Panocek said:

Carriers merely returned to place where they were before REEEwork. Place where you need to have significant game understanding to do decent in them... which defeats whole point of REEEwork.

 

They didnt by Far Margin actually.

But thats a Different Story.

 

I said this several times already.

But if you make a Class more Popular by making it Overpowered as ****.

Then of course that Class will instantly lose its Popularity again if dont keep it Overpowered as ****

 

If Levels go back to before Rework after CVs getting Nerfed. Then this just Means that the Rework Failed in the First Place.

Because People didnt Join the Class because they found the Gameplay more Fun after Rework but because they were Attracted by the easy Stat Padding.

 

 

6 hours ago, DuainHicks said:

thanks can you tell me what skills do you have for the Zeppeling CV commander?
Please.
Those are some great games, since they changed the game mode cv, I could never make a game or similar, I congratulate you for the results.

 

For Upgrades I use.

Air Group Mod 1 for 20% Faster Returning Aircraft.

Aircraft Motor Upgrade for 10% Longer Motor Boost.

Secondary Battery Mod 1 for 20% more Range and 20% less Dispersion on Secondary Battery.

Torpedo Bomber Mod 2 for 7.5% more HP on Torpedo Bombers.

And Air Surveillance Mod for 5% Faster Plane Regeneration and 2 Additional Aircraft for each Squadrons Starting Reserves.

 

For Skills my Captain Currently has.

Tier 1

Air Superiority for 5% faster Plane Regeneration.

Tier 2

Improved Engines for 2.5% Faster Planes.

Tier 3

Aircraft Armor for 10% Reduced Damage from AA.

Tier 4

Advanced Firing Training for 20% more Secondary Range and 15% more Damage for Heavy AA.

 

After that I spend the Additional Points I earned on:

Tier 1

Improved Motor Boost for another 10% more Motor Boost.

Tier 4

Camouflage Mastery. For 10% less Detection Range on my CV.

 

The Next Skill I am working Towards is the Tier 3 Survival Expert which gives 200 Additional HP to each Aircraft. (25 per Tier on Tier 8)

 

 

As you can See I am actually using alot of Improvement for my Secondary Battery.

The Graf Zeppelin with 16x15cm and 12x10.5cm Secondary Guns and a Secondary Range of 9km is a Rather Impressive Force.

And what many People dont Know. The Graf Zeppelins Citadel is Deep below the Waterline. Thus making it Capable of Broadsiding even a Yamato on Closer Range without being Citadeled.

Its Armor is Strong enough to Shatter alot of the 128mm HE Shells from DDs as well.

 

So Unless your meeting a T10 Dedicated Gun like the Harugumo. The only thing you have to Worry about from DDs is Torpedoes. Because your Secondary Battery and Armor give you a Pretty Strong Suite against them in an Direct Artillery Battle.

 

After 0.8.5 I actually considered to Retrain the Captain and Exchange the Camouflage Mastery for the Survival Expert. And get the Camouflage Later.

But Generally the Graf Zeppelins Planes Thanks to their Pretty High Speed can mostly Dash through even Tier 10 AA and still get to Drop their Bombs.

So I just decided that it can Wait till Later.

 

 

Pls note. I Play my Graf Zeppelin very Aggressively and will often be on Islands Close to the Front.

This Allows me to get the Battle much Quicker and Adds AA Protection to my Allies.

Its also very Practical during Endgame. When the Enemy CV becomes an Incredible Threat. Because the Graf Zeppelin has very Strong AA and Automatic Fighters.

So being able to Sail Directly with your Fleet during Endgame. Instead of needing to Sail after them in far Distance. Is Convenient for sure.

 

But make no Mistake. The GZ is a CV. Not a BB. If you try Brawl 1 vs 1 against Cruisers or BBs in this thing you will most of the Time Lose.

It can work in some Cases when the Enemy is Low HP or when you can Harass a Cruiser with your Aircraft at the same Time.

But Generally you should always Consider your Brawling Abilities as an Option for Fleet Support and Last Ditch Defense.

As Impressive as your Secondary Battery is. Against anything beyond a DD it will not deal enough Damage to Win a Fight. :)

 

 

4 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

It is OP , it should be a T9 premium imho to avoid being against T6 ships. 

 

Funny but True.

I like the Idea lol.

 

4 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Well, that'll never happen because lol odd tier CVs.

You could make her straight up into a T10 premium with a few minor changes, but that'll mean WG can't sell her in the premium shop anymore.

Unless WG wants to break their "no T10 premiums in shop" policy as well ofc.

 

Did WG actually Say they wont make Odd Tier CVs ?

I tought back in the Day they said that Odd Tier CVs might Return later on ?

After all they also Removed alot of CVs from the Game with the Rework.

Or have they Said they will make a Second CV Line with those instead ?

 

4 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Can't happen either because premium CVs are now balans camrade!

 

Dont Underestimate WG.

You can Very Easily Manipulate Balance with Global Nerfs and Buffs.

 

For Example.

If I want Enterprise Nerfed. I would Simply Nerf Plane Regen by 50% Globally. And then in the next Update or even in the same Update.... Buff Plane Regen by an Fixed Amount.

Since Enterprise would lose more from the Percentage Nerf and Gain less from the Fixed Amount Buff. This would Effectively Nerf the Enterprise and would not Break the Set Rules.

 

Another Example if you want to Completely Avoid Touching the CVs Values.

I can Just Globally Buff AA by a Large Amount and then Buff all other CVs Except Enterprise to Negate the AA Buff for them.

Thus not Touching Enterprise at all.

 

 

There is enough easy tricks Available there :)

Albeit. In the First Place I am not sure this is even Needed.

WG has Broken their Rules in the Past. So I dont see any Reason for them to not do it again lol.

[El2aZeR]

18 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

You can Very Easily Manipulate Balance with Global Nerfs and Buffs.

 

Don't think that has ever happened tbh and it makes sense. If they try to do the switcharoo thing that'd make their policy pointless and they'd be foolish to think the community won't catch on.

Not that I expect them not to do it at this point ofc.

[Sunleader]

18 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Don't think that has ever happened tbh and it makes sense. If they try to do the switcharoo thing that'd make their policy pointless and they'd be foolish to think the community won't catch on.

Not that I expect them not to do it at this point ofc.

 

Just Providing the Example based on the Coming Changes.

After all. All of the Upcoming Updates Effectively are AA Buffs.

 

And Especially in 0.8.7 when the Manual AA Burst Comes around.

They will likely have to Adjust the CVs Values Accordingly to Deal with the new Situation.

 

Meaning they get an Easy Chance to "Adjust" CV Values to Fit the New Mechanics.

Without calling it a Nerf or it even Requiring to Lower any Values of Premium CVs.

 

 

But especially after that Big Presentation with the Statistics where they nicely used the Statistics Fitting their Points.

I would not consider WG being above that kind of Switcharoo thing.

 

I mean dont get me Wrong. But their Main Argument during the Statistics Presentation was. That CVs are now more Balanced than RTS. Because the Top Values came down and the Bottom Values came up.

And I had to Laugh pretty Hard at this.

Because if you Suddenly get a Ton of Players on a Class that is now much Easier to Play. Then of course the Extreme Ends of the Statistics will get Leveled out.

If the Top 5% are Suddenly 500 Players instead of 50 Players. Then of course the Values for their Stats will Drop.

But anyone who can Look at Statistics can See that the Top 100 Players Stats barely Changed.

[Panocek]

Speaking of new Sector thingy dingy, I wonder if it couldn't be compensated by removal of flak. It doesn't do much against anyone with access to keyboard, while is significant factor of neutering less skilled players ie WG main audience. On other hand, activation of Sector could spawn single wall of flak (or keep spawning flak) within reinforced zone, which may or may not be evaded, so there is some counterplay to counterplay.

[El2aZeR]

11 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Speaking of new Sector thingy dingy, I wonder if it couldn't be compensated by removal of flak.

 

When has WG ever removed horrible mechanics? 

*cough* AP bombs *cough*

[Panocek]

Just now, El2aZeR said:

 

When has WG ever removed horrible mechanics? 

*cough* AP bombs *cough*

Well, tonks are about to get friendly fire removed in upcoming patch... So it is something?

[1MajorKoenig]

14 hours ago, Eddy209 said:

and fly over the island. AA is line of sight .

 

No it’s not! It is one of the biggest stupidities about AA that it “shoots” through mountains. 

 

 

12 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

As mentioned, the Kagais the only one that i do not have...

 

 

...can successfully attack a blob of Tier 10 ships including AA cruisers, and deal on average 5 - 10K of damage. It will cons him the whole squadron, but the damage will be there. The question is should a Tier 8 carrier with Tier 7 plane be able to inflict that kind of damage to a tier 10 AA blob? And not only it can do it once, it can continuously do it over and over again for 15 minutes. If that in not OP, i do not know what is. No other carrier in the game can do that.

 

If you think Kaga is OP you better rethink your live. Kaga is incredibly unfun and uptiers very poor. The only thing is you can  on T6 ships with it. But that is hardly an achievement and nothing you wouldn’t do with a Gascogne much easier and much more convenient.

 

So no, Kaga isn’t OP by any means - she’s garbage 

[El2aZeR]

8 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Well, tonks are about to get friendly fire removed in upcoming patch... So it is something?

 

Two different studios. As we have actually been told by WG already what WoT does is irrelevant to what happens in WoWs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[1MajorKoenig]

25 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Speaking of new Sector thingy dingy, I wonder if it couldn't be compensated by removal of flak. It doesn't do much against anyone with access to keyboard, while is significant factor of neutering less skilled players ie WG main audience. On other hand, activation of Sector could spawn single wall of flak (or keep spawning flak) within reinforced zone, which may or may not be evaded, so there is some counterplay to counterplay.

 

Which would mean: attack with boost in a straight line nothing else. Isn’t that a further simplification / dumbing down we really don’t need? They could much rather work on the clouds to make them work (i.e. invisi thingy)?

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Isn’t that a further simplification / dumbing down we really don’t need?

 

Isn't that precisely the point of this rework? To dumb the game down enough so s can play it?

[Panocek]

Just now, El2aZeR said:

 

Two different studios. As we have actually been told by WG already what WoT does is irrelevant to what happens in WoWs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

True. At least WoT crew system is still stuck in 2010

 

1 minute ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Which would mean: attack with boost in a straight line nothing else. Isn’t that a further simplification / dumbing down we really don’t need? They could much rather work on the clouds to make them work (i.e. invisi thingy)?

If flak would be tied to Sector, then it still would be in game, except this time requiring at least some player input to activate. And even if you evade all the flak, it slows you down, thus you spend more time within AA range -> more casualties.

 

And I don't think you can make flak work - I guess you can sort of fix flak around islands, but you can't fix packet loss/lag. That and in current iteration, if it spawns the way it spawns now its borderline useless. If it would spawn closer, with less time to evade it could easily surpass dps on flak heavy ships. Beauty of binary systems - it works or it doesn't

[1MajorKoenig]

13 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Isn't that precisely the point of this rework? To dumb the game down enough so s can play it?

 

Making something more casual isn’t equal to making something stupidly dumb.

 

There are always lines that shouldn’t be crossed and we are already pretty casual 

[1MajorKoenig]

14 minutes ago, Panocek said:

but you can't fix packet loss/lag

 

Why not?

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Why not?

Thats tied to connection quality, something WG have no impact with. Routing change between WG server and client or even plain WiFi hiccup on user end.

[El2aZeR]

14 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Making something more casual isn’t equal to making something stupidly dumb.

 

There are always lines that shouldn’t be crossed and we are already pretty casual 

 

That would depend on the implementation of mechanics now, doesn't it?

Removing flak is about the only thing you can still do that makes a concession to casuals without compromising game balance. And considering the mechanic itself is horribly designed, buggy to the extreme and does nothing but serve as a basic skill check there is literally no reason to keep it.

[El2aZeR]

New numbers on maplesyrup are out btw. A maximum of 2456 players played CVs last week (1212 high tier, 1244 low tier). This is marginally better than last week so I don't believe we'll see any gigantic leaps anytime soon.

 

I for one am happy to see this garbage pile crash and burn. It deserved nothing less.

[CptBarney]

Well if the team damage mechanics on world of tanks work then they will shift them to here most likely.

 

also its two different dev teams not studios (otherwise world of tanks would be owned by someone else). Either way both are useless since one has a hard on for super-heavies and releasing useless tanks and the other fails to implement basic features and is willing to spam tier 9 prem all day long.

 

also the cv rework was guaranteed to fail since this company actively refuses to listen to sound advice regarding their own game.

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Speaking of new Sector thingy dingy, I wonder if it couldn't be compensated by removal of flak. It doesn't do much against anyone with access to keyboard, while is significant factor of neutering less skilled players ie WG main audience. On other hand, activation of Sector could spawn single wall of flak (or keep spawning flak) within reinforced zone, which may or may not be evaded, so there is some counterplay to counterplay.

 

Would not Work.

Heavy AA can be Evaded. But the Evasion itself does Cause you Damage because it Results in more Maneuvering and thus in more Time Needed to Cross the Continues AA Areas.

So if they Removed Heavy AA they would have to Buff Continues AA in Response to make up for the less Damage you take by being able to Just Fly Straight through it.

 

I do however also Dislike the Instant Damage thing.

Countering Actions that have no Counterplay by giving both sides such Actions that have no Counterplay does not make things better in my Eyes.

Its making things more Balanced. But the Core Problem which is the Frustrating Experience of it. Is actually made Worse by this.

 

I wonder if they could not instead use the Heavy AA for some kind of Half Manual AA.

Effectively giving the Player a Key which when he Presses it. Points his Screen into the Air a bit and gives him a Rough Target Circle.

And the Heavy AA Spawning at that Circle in an Set Interval.

 

Meaning that the Player would then Need to be the one Leading the Aircraft and Trying to Predict the Evasive Maneuvers.

This would give some Actual Counterplay. Because then the CV has to Evade Flak while the Surface Ship has to Try and Predict the Evasion and Lead in the Right Direction.

It would also mean that Players which are in Active Battle and thus have the Rely on Automatic AA would be way weaker Targets.

Which would mean that AA can be made Stronger in General so that a Blob of Ships can Really Block Enemy Aircraft Attacks if they are in a Safe Position.

While at the same Time Players in Active Battle would have extremely Low AA Defense as their Heavy AA is mostly Busy being used as Secondaries and the Player is Busy using his Guns.

 

 

But I fear we wont get anything this Complicated. Since WG will Say that its beyond the Limited Capacity of us Potato Players to do this without Ramming the next Island....

 

 

48 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Well, tonks are about to get friendly fire removed in upcoming patch... So it is something?

 

Welp. Guess Artillery Players are having a Party there now.

Now they can just Casually Bomb right into their own Tanks without any remorse xD

 

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

Well if the team damage mechanics on world of tanks work then they will shift them to here most likely.

 

also its two different dev teams not studios (otherwise world of tanks would be owned by someone else). Either way both are useless since one has a hard on for super-heavies and releasing useless tanks and the other fails to implement basic features and is willing to spam tier 9 prem all day long.

Technically, WoWs is developed by Lesta Studio, St. Petersburg, Russia, merely owned by WG. WoT is developed by actual "WG", with team in their home city of Minsk, Belarus. 

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Technically, WoWs is developed by Lesta Studio, St. Petersburg, Russia, merely owned by WG. WoT is developed by actual "WG", with team in their home city of Minsk, Belarus. 

Eh there both useless anyways

 

like that 73% winrate player in the hsf harekazi that decided to suicide last min on the enemy team.

 

oh well i just want miss yorkie to arrive already, along with pizza ships.

[Hicks__D]

8 hours ago, Sunleader said:



Thanks for all the advice, I will put them into practice, when I can reset the ZP skills, I have 19 points in this one.
And the equipment is similar to the one I already use.