CV Rework Discussion

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, Panocek sagte:

Balans is of achieved, now go and buy yourself an Enty 

I got Enty.

@El2aZeR

probably will choke me but the following happend.

 

CV Rework hit, i sold enty for doubloons. Bought Haku/Midway prem cammo with doubloons. Sold Haku for free XP/prem cammo doubloons LOL.

Bought all 4 prem CVs for 150€.

MFW got back Enterprise.

MFW i spent 150€ on 3 useless CVs.

[Panocek]

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I got Enty.

@El2aZeR

probably will choke me but the following happend.

 

CV Rework hit, i sold enty for doubloons. Bought Haku/Midway prem cammo with doubloons. Sold Haku for free XP/prem cammo doubloons LOL.

Bought all 4 prem CVs for 150€.

MFW got back Enterprise.

MFW i spent 150€ on 3 useless CVs.

[Pikkozoikum]

5 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I got Enty.

@El2aZeR

probably will choke me but the following happend.

 

CV Rework hit, i sold enty for doubloons. Bought Haku/Midway prem cammo with doubloons. Sold Haku for free XP/prem cammo doubloons LOL.

Bought all 4 prem CVs for 150€.

MFW got back Enterprise.

MFW i spent 150€ on 3 useless CVs.

[CptBarney]

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I got Enty.

@El2aZeR

probably will choke me but the following happend.

 

CV Rework hit, i sold enty for doubloons. Bought Haku/Midway prem cammo with doubloons. Sold Haku for free XP/prem cammo doubloons LOL.

Bought all 4 prem CVs for 150€.

MFW got back Enterprise.

MFW i spent 150€ on 3 useless CVs.

[Filipin00]

18 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I got Enty.

@El2aZeR

probably will choke me but the following happend.

 

CV Rework hit, i sold enty for doubloons. Bought Haku/Midway prem cammo with doubloons. Sold Haku for free XP/prem cammo doubloons LOL.

Bought all 4 prem CVs for 150€.

MFW got back Enterprise.

MFW i spent 150€ on 3 useless CVs.

Wait...what?

[Sunleader]

22 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

ok, now i only need to turn my camera in one direction, press delete button and kill 3 planes for free?

Hurray!

 

Not Sure.

I think I am too Tired.

I just somehow read that if you Use the Manual AA Skill it Nerfs your Sector Reinforcement in Exchange for giving a Single Big Damage Burst.

 

I am not even sure what this Mechanic Explanation means.

So basicly there wont be Sector Reinforcement.

If you Press Button in Direction of Planes that are in Range. They get a Damage Burst.

And AA Efficiency basicly goes up in that Direction for a Few Seconds before it goes back to Normal and then is on CoolDown.

 

This might be a Terrible Nerf for AA Cruisers which Dished out Insane Damage with the Sector Reinforcement.

But the Free Damage Burst might be Terrible for CVs that dare Attacking a Blob. Because oh yeah 5 Ships got me in Range.

Ooops. Squad Gone by Instant Deletion...

 

Uhhhh.

I have no Idea here.

Depending on alot of Factors like the actual Damage done by the Flak Burst and the Duration of the Reinforcement etc. This might be a Real Buff for AA.

But on the other Hand if the Damage Burst is pretty small. Or the Cooldown very long etc And Especially if the Manual AA then Increase by 50% in only the 90 Degree or so of the Camera. While the Reamining 270 Degree get Nerfed.

It might end up a Nerf to AA because CVs will just Bait the Burst and then Change the Angle Slightly to basicly get little to no Damage afterwards.

 

This Change is just too Complicated and has too many Potential Variables.

We need to know how Much Damage is Done with the Flak Burst.

We need to know how Accurately you need to Aim at the Incoming Squadron.

We need to know how much more Efficient AA gets in that Direction and how much it is Reduced in other Areas.

We need to know how much Colldown it has and how much the Surface Ship can Activate this Burst.

We need to know how much Range this has.

 

Awwww. My Head Hurts....

I am quite Happy that they have realized the Rework doesnt Work and now go for entirely Different Mechanics.

But just thinking about getting used to this makes my Head Turn....

 

 

15 minutes ago, Filipin00 said:

Can't wait for the refund options for premium CVs

gj wargaming

 

Do you know how many People would have liked a Refund for their Surface Premiums when CV Rework Hit and Spawned these OP Monsters upon this Game....

 

 

14 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I got Enty.

@El2aZeR

probably will choke me but the following happend.

 

CV Rework hit, i sold enty for doubloons. Bought Haku/Midway prem cammo with doubloons. Sold Haku for free XP/prem cammo doubloons LOL.

Bought all 4 prem CVs for 150€.

MFW got back Enterprise.

MFW i spent 150€ on 3 useless CVs.

 

Did you Seriously call me Useless just now ? *gg*

 

 

[Sadzior]

On 7/2/2019 at 4:10 PM, Sunleader said:

 

1.

By that Logic my Average Damage in a CV would Increase to 500k because we have to assume Enemy Ships to be so Incompetent that they will not even Drive Evasive Maneuvers when I drop from 5km away.

But we are not Talking about Incompetence. We talk about the actual Game. And in the actual Game. Unless the CV just Flies Straight Ahead into a Minotaurs AA and is Hit by Heavy AA Explosions. The Minotaur will not Stop him from Dropping.

2.

I am going to Call Bluff on that. And Ask you Politely to Provide Evidence of such Claims.

Due to the Nature of the Claim a Replay might be Best. But I will also Accept you to post at least 2 Screenshot Sets of 2 Screenshots each where you Show us the Approaching Squadron in the First Screenshot and then your 9-12 Plane Kills in the Second Screenshot.

And since your Claiming that this is a Common Occurence. (Which I know is not True because your Profile is Public)

I would also Request you to Publicly Post a Picture of your Statistics (Or Alternatively give me Permission to Post your Stats) of your Games in the Fletcher.

3.

I have yet to meet the Player whom I cant Drop against in this Game. So again. Evidence Please.

4.

You cannot Hide from a CV that can Cross the entire Map in 1 Minute.

You can easily Damage a Shimakaze without taking any Losses. The Shimakazes AA is Horrible and only even usable on below 2km. So if you just Attack once and Withdraw he usually wont be able to Kill a Plane.

The Shimakaze is currently not Balanced at all Unfortunately. Because exactly as you say. The Shimakaze is Strong because it can Launch Strikes from Stealth. Which is currently Impossible as CVs can easily Scout any DD on the Map thus currently making such Play Impossible. Even more so. Because Shimakaze has Horrible AA. So if a CV Finds it away from the Fleet even if it costs the CV 2 Aircraft. He can easily Trash the Shimakaze to Death with Rockets.

Something I did not too recently in my T10 CV Haku when an Enemy Shimakaze in the Endgame was trying to Reach me. And had to Find out that my Assaults had other Plans.

 

 

 

If we did it like Real Life we would Send out a Wave of more than 200 Aircraft which would Score a Total of 3 Hits on a Battleship and which would have a Total Loss of about 10 Aircraft.

Or we could assume a Similar Scenario as the Bismarck. Where Half of the Planes Send by the Royal Air Force and Royal Navy Bombed their own Ships because they tought it was the Bismarck. :)

But this is not Real Life. Its a Game. And thus it has to be Balanced. Not Realistic. (Unless its a Simulation Game that is supposed to be Realistic. Which World of Warships is clearly not)

 

And No. The Comment was Made in Response to his Demand that the Class System is more Extreme. Meaning a Ship with Weak AA Should not be able to Shoot down Aicraft even if the same Squadron Bombs it 3 Times.

While a Dedicated AA Cruiser should actually be Immune to AirStrikes and Shoot down all Aircraft before any Bombs are Dropped at him. Even if he is Attacked by a Full CV Squadron.

To Achieve that. We would first need to Increase Continues AA by about 30-50% because currently even T8 CVs can still Yolo into a Minotaur and Bomb it.

 

As for the Double Citadels. The thing with GZ DBs is that its Aiming Indicator Sucks. When you Start the Attack while the Cross is on the Enemy. Your Bombers will have nearly Leveled out when you reach the Enemy Ship.

So unless your Bombing a Light Cruiser and want to have a Sure hit. You should not Start your Attack when your White Cross is before or at the Enemy.

When however you want to Citadel Cruisers and BBs. You should Start the Attack Run Preferably from the Broadside. (Because GZ Dive Bombers tend to Drop to the Sides of the Aiming Cross. And thus nearly always miss when you Drop a Cruiser from the Front or Rear) And you should only Start the Run when the Cross is already a Full Diameter of itself behind the Enemy Ship. Because then you actually Drop from above and the Bombs Strike Down. And as the Bombs of GZ DBs. Nearly always Fly to the Sides but not that much higher or lower. You tend to get pretty Reliable Results of 1 and sometimes even 2 Citadels :)

But I dont want to Increase your hopes too much either. The German DBs do have very high RNG and really MISS ALOT of their Bombs. And worse when they hit they also often Overpen and other things.....

And all this deep knowledge after 20 battles in haka....

Ever heard about preferable matchmaking in first battles after purchasing a ship?

Not mentioning your performance in every other ship class before your very few battles in after rework cv .

Told you : stop producing those walls of text when you have no idea about what you talking about.

You learned to farm damage in kaga and zeppelin. Thats it no more no less.

And again .

Your idea about aaa cruisiers shall be immune to planes have nothing with real game mechanics.

So stop this nonsense please.

[Sunleader]

7 minutes ago, Sadzior said:

And all this deep knowledge after 20 battles in haka....

Ever heard about preferable matchmaking in first battles after purchasing a ship?

 

Sure.

I Really Enjoyed that for the First 10 Matches I could not get into T12 Battles :)

And had a Limit of Max 4 Dedicated AA Cruisers in the Enemy Team.

 

 

Edit:

Oh wait there is no T12 xD

[CptBarney]

So love and toineh binned enty.

 

stalingrad gets balans with kremlin, thanks to to new NT thing if it goes through.

 

and sector AA is loike clicky manual aa thing again.

 

waaahh.

[Filipin00]

12 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Do you know how many People would have liked a Refund for their Surface Premiums when CV Rework Hit and Spawned these OP Monsters upon this Game....

Ok.....so I just sell my account to someone naive enough to fall for it?

[Sadzior]

9 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Sure.

I Really Enjoyed that for the First 10 Matches I could not get into T12 Battles :)

And had a Limit of Max 4 Dedicated AA Cruisers in the Enemy Team.

 

 

Edit:

Oh wait there is no T12 xD

How about your desperate kaga damage farming from yesterday resulting in 40 % wr?

Maybe thats because cv cant carry anymore after all stupid nerfs.

Stop defending this stupid nerfing just because u got lucky a few battles.

You dont have british t 10 nor saipan nor midway so stop generalizing about all cv with you never tested.

You mot even played your beloved shokaku after nerf but you know best.

Just go on the ground from your high horse .

You still 51 % and only because you learned to farm on new cv .

What do you actually know about t10 play when you have only kurfurst wit 80 battles or so and none of worcester or minotaur or any of dd capable t10

You hot haka with 20 battles probably burming free xp now just after you got accused here on forum about your incompetence.

Likewise youger hermes in panic in last second.

Quite pathetic.

 

[Panocek]

21 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Not Sure.

I think I am too Tired.

I just somehow read that if you Use the Manual AA Skill it Nerfs your Sector Reinforcement in Exchange for giving a Single Big Damage Burst.

The way I understand it, it gives instant welcoming gift of  you and then dps gradually ramps up, works for some time then goes off for cooldown. Basically 2nd, free DFAA?

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, Sadzior said:

How about your desperate kaga damage farming from yesterday resulting in 40 % wr?

Maybe thats because cv cant carry anymore after all stupid nerfs.

Stop defending this stupid nerfing just because u got lucky a few battles.

You dont have brot t 10 nor saipan nor midway so stop generalizing about all cv with you mever tested.

You mot even played your beloved shokaku after nerf but you know best.

Just go on the ground from your high horse .

You still 51 % and only because you learned to farm on new cv .

 

 

A Picture says more than a Thousand Words.

CV Games of Last 7 Days.

 

 

 

 

Of course if you want.

We can Wait till Tomrrow so you can be Sure that its all Games from after the Rework.

And my Other Stats dont Matter. I am Complaining about CVs. Not about other Ships. So my Stats for other Ships are not Relevant to the Topic. :)

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

20 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

And my Other Stats dont Matter. I am Complaining about CVs. Not about other Ships. So my Stats for other Ships are not Relevant to the Topic. :)

This sentance makes no bloody sense to be honest. We are talking how the AA of all the other ships are way to strong and you say it does not matter......

This makes no bloody sense to be honest.

 

What i always say is you need to be on the recieving and on the delivering end to tell the full tale.

[Panocek]

12 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

This sentance makes no bloody sense to be honest. We are talking how the AA of all the other ships are way to strong and you say it does not matter......

This makes no bloody sense to be honest.

 

What i always say is you need to be on the recieving and on the delivering end to tell the full tale.

Well, as supertester you should know by now logic is optional, whether it comes to game development or forums WG delivers

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, DragonstrikerOrigin said:

This sentance makes no bloody sense to be honest. We are talking how the AA of all the other ships are way to strong and you say it does not matter......

This makes no bloody sense to be honest.

 

What i always say is you need to be on the recieving and on the delivering end to tell the full tale.

 

Thats Fine lol.

I am at the Receiving end of AIrstrike Attacks Constantly. And IT SUCKS to be at the Receiving end of them and being unable to do anything about it.

 

But my Stats dont help my Point here.

I am saying that Surface Ships have too few Options to Fight Back. And well I get Pummeled by CVs on a Regular Base when Playing other Ships.

(Which is Insanely Frustrating...)

But its not Helping my Point. Because People can say I dont try hard enough or I am just too bad at it etc.

Moreover my General Stats cant Show this Properly because I cant Sort it for Battles only Containing CVs.

 

So the only Way I can Show CVs are too easy and too Strong. Is by Showing that an Average Potato Player like me can go ahead and Rock with them.

Same as Showing that CVs are Clearly Playable and not Underpowered. The best way I can do that is by simply Playing CVs and Demonstrating that I get results and that thus the CV is Playable :)

[CaptainOkita]

6 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

For people with a brain maybe.

 

That was the RTS.

Currently it's: Slingshot once -> steady reticle -> slingshot -> repeat once or twice because you're getting deplaned.

Much Mensa. Such IQ.

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, CaptainOkita said:

That was the RTS.

Currently it's: Slingshot once -> steady reticle -> slingshot -> repeat once or twice because you're getting deplaned.

Much Mensa. Such IQ.

 

I am Sorry. But if thats how you Play. Then I am not Surprised that you get Deleted before you Reach an Enemy Ship.

When you only Arrive at the Enemy Cruiser when you already Send all but 1 Wing home.

Then All Losses are going to that last Wing thus Preventing you from Dropping Bombs.

 

Moreover the Second Slingshot is not even Useful. Because if you dont Start a Slingshot BEFORE you Enter AA Range. It will actually Increase your Losses. Not Reduce them.....

[artic_99]

Vor 9 Minuten, CaptainOkita sagte:

That was the RTS.

Currently it's: Slingshot once -> steady reticle -> slingshot -> repeat once or twice because you're getting deplaned.

Much Mensa. Such IQ.

I didn't even slingshot in Haku and still did just fine even tho I just had a Seattle as the nastiest ship in terms of aa in the enemy team. 

But....(sorry for the edit) Maybe wg should buff British t6 and t8 cvs Cuz they are quite underperforming right now. 

[CaptainOkita]

3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

I am Sorry. But if thats how you Play. Then I am not Surprised that you get Deleted before you Reach an Enemy Ship.

When you only Arrive at the Enemy Cruiser when you already Send all but 1 Wing home.

Then All Losses are going to that last Wing thus Preventing you from Dropping Bombs.

 

Moreover the Second Slingshot is not even Useful. Because if you dont Start a Slingshot BEFORE you Enter AA Range. It will actually Increase your Losses. Not Reduce them.....

That's not how i play because i stopped playing CV's. You can also have fun with your weird stat flex. There's nothing you can do to mitigate losses with this linear perma damage model apart from slingshotting. To say you're not slingshotting and somehow not taking massive damage is quite frankly false. Unless there's another exploit i'm not aware of or are we talking enterprise/kaga?

[Excavatus]

6 hours ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Yes, but when I ask Excavatus to explain what he meant with the term "helpless", then there's little point for others to explain, because it defeats the point of the inquiry. If I were to just go off on the first interpretation of the term by someone els, I could as well go by my own interpretation of the term. As however I wanted to be clear what I am responding to, I asked for an elaboration, which however only the person in question themselves can give for it to have any meaningful authority. This isn't some question like "Can Kaga rockets pen T8 BBs?" (please don't answer, this is just an example), where an objective technical response exists that anyone with enough game knowledge can provide. Thus I felt like pointing out that what you are doing by responding to the question is basically waste both our time, as your response just has no value in this specific case.

Hey there,

@Sunleader actually explained really good there..

 

But let me make it really simple when I say helpless..

 

an alone Yamato at the end of a match... against any tier 10 CV.. has no chance.. absolutely no chance..

cannot cap, will be reseted, cannot go find CV, CV will run away.. hide.. etc...

cannot defend itself.. because of crap AA..

 

lets say both the CV captain and yamato captain are average players.. %50 WR guys..

That yamato.. will die.. that is sure.. there is no way for that yamato captain to OUTPLAY the CV captain..

unless CV captain is a very very speshul gentelmen...

 

one more example, a shima.. end of the game,

has to cap.. 1 vs 1 with a tier 10 CV..

how long can it hide in a smoke... ?

CV will just hover on it.. wait for it.. then when it comes out.. without any decent AA cover.. shima will suffer...

shima will die..

that shima has NO WAY OF winning that battle.. If CV captain does no mistake..

 

So,
when I say helpless.. I mean this..

basically..

1) you vs enemy.. no one makes a mistake.. better captain wins..

2) you vs enemy, you make a mistake... enemy captain wins..

3) you vs enemy, enemy captain makes a mistake, you win...

 

number 1, doesn't work against CV in certain ships..

surface ships,

you need to be a better captain.. and try to avoid mistakes to win..

in CV, against some certain ships, you don't need to be a better captain..

Thats what I call helpless..

[Sunleader]

17 minutes ago, CaptainOkita said:

That's not how i play because i stopped playing CV's. You can also have fun with your weird stat flex. There's nothing you can do to mitigate losses with this linear perma damage model apart from slingshotting. To say you're not slingshotting and somehow not taking massive damage is quite frankly false. Unless there's another exploit i'm not aware of or are we talking enterprise/kaga?

 

That Exploit is called Evasive Maneuvers.  And prevents being Hit by Heavy AA. 

This is a common Problem lately anyways.

Too many People cant Differeniate between Heavy AA and Continues AA.

They dont know how to Dodge Heavy AA and then think the Continues AA that they cant Dodge would be the thing which does so much Damage.

When in Reality they simply keep getting hit by Heavy AA and thus take massive Losses.

 

Unfortunately I got to get to Work now.

But I will Try to make a Video Tomorrow to Demonstrate just how Big the Difference is between the Losses you Take when you Dodge Heavy AA and the Losses you Take when you dont.

Might also Help some People here to Reduce their Losses.

[CaptainOkita]

8 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

 

number 1, doesn't work against CV in certain ships..

surface ships,

you need to be a better captain.. and try to avoid mistakes to win..

in CV, against some certain ships, you don't need to be a better captain..

Thats what I call helpless..

That's because of the CV rework making plane regen a thing. Also said yamato will probably be taking minor damage if the CV got deplaned and is sending partial wings or meh damage and can still basically move towards the CV to citadel it. I've not yet seen or tested it with a yamato but i saw it first hand both on the CV side vs a kremlin and with my kremlin against a CV. The damage was so inconsequential. It feels helpless in the same way that a fly buzzing around you is "helplessness" said fly is not going to do much harm but annoy you.

RTS CV's would have been deplaned by then or the yamato would at least die in one big strike instead of pricked to death by a thousand strikes.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

That Exploit is called Evasive Maneuvers.  And prevents being Hit by Heavy AA. 

This is a common Problem lately anyways.

Too many People cant Differeniate between Heavy AA and Continues AA.

They dont know how to Dodge Heavy AA and then think the Continues AA that they cant Dodge would be the thing which does so much Damage.

When in Reality they simply keep getting hit by Heavy AA and thus take massive Losses.

 

Unfortunately I got to get to Work now.

But I will Try to make a Video Tomorrow to Demonstrate just how Big the Difference is between the Losses you Take when you Dodge Heavy AA and the Losses you Take when you dont.

Might also Help some People here to Reduce their Losses.

 

That would be fine if the flak clouds were in sync with the damage. They aren't. There's not alot of depth to dodging circles in a 2d pattern.

[Excavatus]

3 minutes ago, CaptainOkita said:

That's because of the CV rework making plane regen a thing. Also said yamato will probably be taking minor damage if the CV got deplaned and is sending partial wings or meh damage and can still basically move towards the CV to citadel it. I've not yet seen or tested it with a yamato but i saw it first hand both on the CV side vs a kremlin and with my kremlin against a CV. The damage was so inconsequential. It feels helpless in the same way that a fly buzzing around you is "helplessness" said fly is not going to do much harm but annoy you.

RTS CV's would have been deplaned by then or the yamato would at least die in one big strike instead of pricked to death by a thousand strikes.

Yeah the plane regen is the core reason of it but..

I only played hakuryu at tier 10..

and whenever I see a yama.. that is basically free food for my TBs..

I usually drop my first 2 on the way.. then I drop 2 loads on it for 4 torps.. which usually do around 20 to 30K damage,
then I get another squadron up.. lets I lose everytime 2 planes..

I start with 24... how many 4 torps that yammy will eat untill it deplanes my TBs?

Thats what I'm talking about.

[CaptainOkita]

Just now, Excavatus said:

Yeah the plane regen is the core reason of it but..

I only played hakuryu at tier 10..

and whenever I see a yama.. that is basically free food for my TBs..

I usually drop my first 2 on the way.. then I drop 2 loads on it for 4 torps.. which usually do around 20 to 30K damage,
then I get another squadron up.. lets I lose everytime 2 planes..

I start with 24... how many 4 torps that yammy will eat untill it deplanes my TBs?

Thats what I'm talking about.

Which can be solved by reverting to RTS full payload or going full payload strikes in the action iteration. The action cv as it is can be summed up as annoying by forcing constant soft hits.