CV Rework Discussion

[Panocek]

59 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

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38mm citadel on deck is of balans flaw camrade.

 

Bigger question, who or what forced you to play RNGer?

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Bigger question, who or what forced you to play RNGer?

 

@Saiyko.

 

We got extremely lucky with MM tho. Ranger is decent when top tier I suppose but the plane regen and reserves are laughable.

[Prospect_b]

3 hours ago, Panocek said:

Bigger question, who or what forced you to play RNGer?

 

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

@Saiyko. 

 

I did no such thing. I chose the tier, you chose the ship

[Prospect_b]

13 hours ago, Excavatus said:

Because my Musashi still eats AP citadels from big E or Haku or Shokaku, but now they lose planes thankfully. 

 

[...]

I don't want immunity,

but I want.. all and every single one of surface ships can be able to hurt the CVs back.

Musashi doesn't still eat AP cits from Enterprise, cause she never did, just like yamato.

 

And musashi imho should be able to get farmed by even tier sixes. Her "weak" AA is the only weakness she has compared to yamato, which should be the price you have to pay to crap all over tier sevens. Not to mention that bowcamping BBs in general are for me the main reason to justify AP bombs.

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Musashi doesn't still eat AP cits from Enterprise, cause she never did, just like yamato.

 

And musashi imho should be able to get farmed by even tier sixes. Her "weak" AA is the only weakness she has compared to yamato, which should be the price you have to pay to crap all over tier sevens. Not to mention that bowcamping BBs in general are for me the main reason to justify AP bombs.

 

Cant tell on Enterprise Bombs as I dont have her.

But Shokaku, GZ and Haku can Citadel her.

 

As for that being the Price to Pay.

Then what is the Price that CVs have to Pay to crap all over Everyone else ? :)

 

[El2aZeR]

3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Cant tell on Enterprise Bombs as I dont have her.

 

E has ~244mm penetration if I remember correctly. Yama/Sushi have 257mm armor minimum (57mm deck + min 200mm citadel deck). Shokaku AP bombs have just enough penetration to break that at high altitude and ofc Haku/GZ with 350mm+ pen have no issues whatsoever.

[DragonstrikerOrigin]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Haku/GZ with 350mm+ pen have no issues whatsoever.

Yes Haku has probably no problem to do that but GZ can't do that anymore for a while. Since the AP bomb drop angle is currently quite bad. She can maybe cit a bb if you are lucky enough(what is to 90% not the case).

[Alfa_Tau]

Usually after a new update is introduced you find several videos on YouTube from CCs, explaining the "new" stuff.

Now 5 days are gone from update 085, which has introduced a significant chance to the game mechanics and still none of the CCs has posted a video.

The only exception is Notser who is Always very much enthusistic about everything WG does.

Perhaps they are all on holidays??

  

[Sunleader]

16 minutes ago, Alfa_Tau said:

Usually after a new update is introduced you find several videos on YouTube from CCs, explaining the "new" stuff.

Now 5 days are gone from update 085, which has introduced a significant chance to the game mechanics and still none of the CCs has posted a video.

The only exception is Notser who is Always very much enthusistic about everything WG does.

Perhaps they are all on holidays??

  

 

Nope.

Its just that not much has changed.

AA Damage is exactly the same as in 0.8.4

Only Difference is that it now Focusses 1 Plane.

 

As 1 Plane is Focussed you now lose Planes Faster.

 

But the Claims of Panicking CV Players about them being unable to Bomb Ships or having entire Squadrons Deleted is entirely down to their overactive Fantasy.

 

Because Total AA Damage to the Squadron has not changed in the Slightest.

Meaning that the Total Time your Squadron has till its Destruction is entirely the same.

Only Difference is that you dont suddenly lose 10 planes after 10 Seconds but instead lose 1 plane per second steadily.

 

 

[Alfa_Tau]

17 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

As 1 Plane is Focussed you now lose Planes Faster

And this does not represent a big change for you? 

Moreover in your previous post you clearly said that now ships have the opportunity to kill planes. So I see some contradiction in what you state now. 

18 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

But the Claims of Panicking CV Players about them being unable to Bomb Ships or having entire Squadrons Deleted is entirely down to their overactive Fantasy.

If this is a fantasy why MrConway posted an official answer from WG saying that they went "too far" with the tweak to the AA? 

 

about my previous post I just find out the answer (or at least a clue ) 

 

 

Enjoy the summer and don't take everything so seriously 

[El2aZeR]

40 minutes ago, Alfa_Tau said:

If this is a fantasy why MrConway posted an official answer from WG saying that they went "too far" with the tweak to the AA? 

 

WG is known to lie when it suits them.

 

Case and point:

When the GZ was first released it was the most terrible CV tier for tier. Literally everyone believed it to be unplayable including all expert CV players such as Fara and thought they must have rushed the release just to cash in on the gamescom hype.

What did WG respond with? "GZ is final and totally playable. You all are just terrible CV players and should git gud."

 

They only went back on that after severe community backlash. It was also the thing that directly led to iChase getting his CC status removed (although he got it restored apparently? Not exactly following news on him since watching him play is physically painful).

[CptBarney]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 It was also the thing that directly led to iChase getting his CC status removed (although he got it restored apparently? Not exactly following news on him since watching him play is physically painful).

I dont know if hes taken a break but he hasnt uploaded anything for a month now on youtube. Also he helped me, learn how to aim in this game...

 

Also one of your clan mates in the ijn tier 10 cv tried to kill me in my georgia but the time ran out before he could and my reaction to that is below.

 

 

only did 36k damage doe...i like miss hosho doe but her planes take ten years to reach anywhere so carrying in her is basically impossible (even with a kraken and killing all of the enemy dd's flying around the map).

[Alfa_Tau]

34 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

I dont know if hes taken a break but he hasnt uploaded anything for a month now on YouTube

 

 

[Asakka]

5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

Then what is the Price that CVs have to Pay to crap all over Everyone else ? :)

Negative Karma 

[El2aZeR]

Posted this in the other thread, thought it might interest folks here as well.

 

3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/

 

Reworked high tier CVs weekly stats at 2019/06/29

- 50.92% avg WR

- 71284 avg dmg

- 0.96 kills per match

- 5.55 aircraft shot down per match

- 12.52 base defense value

- 75.33% survival ratio

- 56568 spotting damage

 

RTS high tier CVs weekly stats at 2019/01/26 (last snapshot before rework)

- 50.13% avg WR

- 68771 avg dmg

- 1.04 kills per match

- 19.23 aircraft shot down per match

- 5.64 base defense value

- 68.98% survival ratio

- 56127 spotting damage

 

So yes, reworked CVs are actually more or equally as powerful at everything but downing aircraft compared to RTS CVs. And downing aircraft only has an effect on CVs so that's a moot point for surface ships.

Also reworked CV population is rolling back hard with only about 1.5k players still playing in high and low tiers respectively. This is already in RTS CV territory as well.

 

Conclusion? The rework has been a complete and utter failure across the board.

 

Doesn't exactly tell you anything new tho if you've been following the discussion.

[Panocek]

58 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Posted this in the other thread, thought it might interest folks here as well.

 

 

Doesn't exactly tell you anything new tho if you've been following the discussion.

Well, you're missing all the digits WG made from re-releasing premium carriers 

[HaachamaShipping]

17 hours ago, Excavatus said:

Just tell me one thing... Yes, A shima or a musashi should be helpless against a CV.

Lets say, a desmo should be helpless against a rushing BB (there is always ramming though)

lets say, a BB is helpless against a shima or gearing or YY..

 

What are the CVs helpless against under any condition?

What needs to be happen for a CV to be able to do nothing and go back to port?

Define "helpless". Because (depending on definition) even Shima and Musashi are not "helpless against [CVs] under any condition" nor does this necesarily apply to DM vs BBs or BBs vs DDs.

[artic_99]

Vor 21 Minuten, Cagliostro_chan sagte:

Define "helpless". Because (depending on definition) even Shima and Musashi are not "helpless against [CVs] under any condition" nor does this necesarily apply to DM vs BBs or BBs vs DDs.

That's what he tried to point out. In his opinion no ship should be helpless against another ship. In my opionion I don't agree 100%on this. Musashi and Shima have Chances due to rngesus, they don't need a decent aa. Cuz the terrible aa was there to recompens the Incredible strength of those ships. 

[El2aZeR]

7 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

Shima [...] Incredible strength

 

I'm sorry, but are we playing the same game?

[artic_99]

Vor 11 Minuten, El2aZeR sagte:

 

I'm sorry, but are we playing the same game?

Mainly talked about Musashi. Just used Shima Cuz he used it. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

18 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I'm sorry, but are we playing the same game?

I keep wondering that myself too when I read about the poor Shima being every CV's biatch because she's apparently abnormally strong. Guess people still suffer from Torpedo Soup Syndrome from years back.

What strikes me in these comments is that a Shima set out to kill a CV by sailing behind enemy lines, however stupid of a plan that might be, apparently should have zero chance in defending itself when countered by the CV. Literally nothing she should be able to do. And in an endgame when a lone Musashi being stripped from it's blob faces a CV, again tough luck, the Musashi should have zero chance in that encounter, not even granted a plane kill because she's abnormal, completely ignoring the fact that CV's already have an abnormal survival rate. And all this balans© is normal? 

[Panocek]

2 minutes ago, Europizza said:

completely ignoring the fact that CV's already have an abnormal survival rate. And all this balans© is normal?

Da camrade

 

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/

 

Reworked high tier CVs weekly stats at 2019/06/29

- 50.92% avg WR

- 71284 avg dmg

- 0.96 kills per match

- 5.55 aircraft shot down per match

- 12.52 base defense value

- 75.33% survival ratio

- 56568 spotting damage

 

RTS high tier CVs weekly stats at 2019/01/26 (last snapshot before rework)

- 50.13% avg WR

- 68771 avg dmg

- 1.04 kills per match

- 19.23 aircraft shot down per match

- 5.64 base defense value

- 68.98% survival ratio

- 56127 spotting damage

 

So yes, reworked CVs are actually more or equally as powerful at everything but downing aircraft compared to RTS CVs. And downing aircraft only has an effect on CVs so that's a moot point for surface ships.

Also reworked CV population is rolling back hard with only about 1.5k players still playing in high and low tiers respectively. This is already in RTS CV territory as well.

 

Conclusion? The rework has been a complete and utter failure across the board.

[Filipin00]

5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

But the Claims of Panicking CV Players about them being unable to Bomb Ships or having entire Squadrons Deleted is entirely down to their overactive Fantasy.

You know, yesterday I got 2 games in full tier 10 in my Kaga.

 

I flew around a spot in a domination trying to spot something for my team in my rocket planes

 

I didn't even attack the dude(Salem) and 1 sec(maybe less) after I've spotted him my squadron got deleted. Instantly.

 

I tried attacking the dude with second rocket squadron(I thought he just activated dfAA) I got halfway through to his mid-range AA aura and my planes just got deleted instantly. Not 1 attack plane got its rockets off.

 

After that I took torpedo and dive bombers and sunk myself. Because NO!!!!

 

 

[DFens_666]

13 minutes ago, Europizza said:

I keep wondering that myself too when I read about the poor Shima being every CV's biatch because she's apparently abnormally strong. Guess people still suffer from Torpedo Soup Syndrome from years back.

What strikes me in these comments is that a Shima set out to kill a CV by sailing behind enemy lines, however stupid of a plan that might be, apparently should have zero chance in defending itself when countered by the CV. Literally nothing she should be able to do. And in an endgame when a lone Musashi being stripped from it's blob faces a CV, again tough luck, the Musashi should have zero chance in that encounter, not even granted a plane kill because she's abnormal, completely ignoring the fact that CV's already have an abnormal survival rate. And all this balans© is normal? 

 

One might say, that is due to the mentality of new CVs: They are completely seperated from the other classes. They basicly play 1v1s most of the time. So they have a lone ship, kill it ofc because thats what they should do. But you cant play 1v1s all game long and expect to win everyone of them. Try doing that in a surface ship

 

6 minutes ago, Filipin00 said:

You know, yesterday I got 2 games in full tier 10 in my Kaga.

 

I flew around a spot in a domination trying to spot something for my team in my rocket planes

 

I didn't even attack the dude(Salem) and 1 sec(maybe less) after I've spotted him my squadron got deleted. Instantly.

 

I tried attacking the dude with second rocket squadron(I thought he just activated dfAA) I got halfway through to his mid-range AA aura and my planes just got deleted instantly. Not 1 attack plane got its rockets off.

 

After that I took torpedo and dive bombers and sunk myself. Because NO!!!!

 

So you took the squishiest planes and attacked one of the strongest AA ships in the game While being -2 tier ofc... You can try sailing full broadside in a Mogami against a TX BB, see how that goes. Only difference is, game ends for you right there.

[Filipin00]

Just now, DFens_666 said:

So you took the squishiest planes and attacked one of the strongest AA ships in the game While being -2 tier ofc... You can try sailing full broadside in a Mogami against a TX BB, see how that goes. Only difference is, game ends for you right there.

Well....you say squishiest, I say the most worthless ones....

 

Because my mentality is I use only rockets in the beginning not to lose those precious ones(Torp and dive bombers) at least not that early in the match....

 

Everyone, I repeat, EVERYONE is bunched up, clustered together, no lone targets...as I've said, CVs are a class that to do good in a battle depend on enemy's stupidity and ignorance. If enemy involves 1% of their brain effort to track your planes on the map you will not get a single point of damage without losing at least half of your planes. Trading 4-6 planes to get what.....5-6k dmg? Let's use math, if carrier has in total 50 planes that is......around what 48k dmg total? And no planes left....

 

In tier 10, I've yet not encountered a tier 10 match where at least an average, let alone weak AA ship, got separated enough so I could  "crap" on him. No, I never crap on anyone in CV, I rather have to bite and bleed to get any kind of damage. And I'm not opposed to that, but it's kind of annoying seeing youtube videos of people playing CVs and saying they just "crap" on everyone.....oh please, NO YOU DON'T. That is like 1 in 15 battles where you happen to find people ignorant enough to punish them. The rest people are just too smart for -2 tier CV.

 

I got SO PISSED OFF......usually when I get to that level of "pissed off" I get up, and punch the nearest wall with my fist so hard I leave blood stains on it.

I paid for that. The worst thing is, I perform better in tech tree CV than in premium. Tried playing shokaku for first time in a month or so and did almost like 100k dmg and won.