CV Rework Discussion

[Sunleader]

8 minutes ago, howardxu_23 said:

WG is being sneaky here, service costs of cvs are higher then same tier ships of other types.

Explains why I don’t earn as much for some reason.

 

I dont think is Explains it if you Earn less.

CVs thanks to having both Damage and Spotting Damage and on top also Shot down Planes. Usually have a very high Reward.

Moreover. CVs rarely Die in Battle. So most of the Time you dont actually Pay Service Cost.

With my GK (T10 BB) I mostly Earn only 200-350k Credits. And Usually Pay about 220-240k on Service and Refills.

In my Haku (T10 CV) I mostly Earn 400-700k Credits. And Usually Pay about 80k Refills. (Because I dont really Die with the Haku even if we Lose)

 

Meaning that the Profit Range is much Bigger for a CV. This is also why I am using my Kaga for Farming Money. With Signals and Camo I often make around a Million Credits in a Single Battle. And only Pay about 50k of Refills. 

[El2aZeR]

11 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Moreover. CVs rarely Die in Battle. So most of the Time you dont actually Pay Service Cost.

 

You pay service cost every time regardless of whether you take damage or not.

Was changed ages ago so that camping s don't camp in the back trying to save money. Didn't work ofc because even now barely anyone knows this.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Atris2nd said:

From what Sunleader showcased as the more experienced CV player, I think it's a more case by case basis myself. Some CVs work well with dive bombers while others not so much. Graf Zeppelin if played correctly can get a ton of use out of her dive bombers on cruisers. But it depends on the ship. Rockets seem to be the way to go from what I could tell as a whole though.

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

 

Nope. This is Actually Realistic lol.

 

An AA Burst Shells. Are Shells which are basicly Splinter Grenades. They Explode on a Timer. And then Shatter Shrapnel in all Directions.

The Black Smoke appears afterwards due to the Explosives Burning away. But by the Time the Black Smoke Appeared. The Shrapnel already had Shot in all Directions.

For B17 Bomber Crew in WW2 for example this was one of the most Horrifying Aspects on their Bombing Runs. Because they could See the Black Smokes coming Closer as the Gunners on the Ground Adjusted their Aim.

But when they were Hit. The Shrapnel actually Shot through the Aircraft and Perforated its Hull before the Black Cloud of the Explosion actually Appeared.

Moreover. The Black Smoke was very small compared to the actual Radius of the Shrapnel. Very often a B17 Bomber was Hit by Shrapnel and the Black Cloud Formed 10 or 20 meters away.

Direct Hits by such Shells were usually Devastating and Effectively Destroyed the Aircraft. Because it literally Shattered the Planes Structure wherever it Hit.

 

To Evade AA. You have to Evade Preemptively. Heavy AA Calculates your Trajectory. And will Shoot in your Path. So you Change Course constantly. So the Calculation is Off and the AA Misses you.

You can actually Test this yourself. When you Open a Training Room and then put a Heavy AA Cruiser there. Approach it with Aircraft. And then just keep Pointing your nose to the Right and to Left again. To the Right and to the Left again.

You will notice that the AA Bursts will then constantly Change from being to your Right and then to your Left again. Then to the Right and then to the Left again. Because thats where your Calculated Position would have been.

 

As for the Fighters. Ships do have Limited Heavy AA at least. So I think that Fighters take off some of this Fire from you. Because the Ships Aims some Shells in the Direction of the Fighters.

I do not know however if this really Reduces AA. Especially I dont know if it Affects Continues AA.

 

 

 

In General Yes.

Light Cruisers have very Little Armor. So they will take alot of Damage from Rocket Attacks. But it also Depends on your CV. The Shokaku and Haku have a real lot of Rockets. So they can Cause alot of Damage even to Heavy Cruisers.

The Graf Zeppelin has much fewer but also much Stronger Rockets. And actually Performs better against Heavy Cruisers with these Rockets than it does against DDs. But its AP Bombers are also much easier to Aim at Cruisers than other Nations Bombers. Because Graf Zeppelin Dive Bombers dont care if the Enemy Cruiser is Broadside or Coming Straight at you. While other Nations Dive Bombers have a Hard Time hitting you if you Show em Broadside.

With Kaga however I have very Few Rockets. And will Prefer HE Bombs against Cruisers. Because I just cant Deal enough Damage to them with the few Rockets Kaga has. The Good thing is. Kaga has HE Bombs. So you can Level out the Bombers and Drop very Flat. Which allows to also hit Cruisers and even DDs with HE Bombs from the Kaga.

 

So as Atris said. It really is a Case by Case Decision. I do however Really think I should say this. Do not Underestimate How Importand and Strong the Assault Planes are with their Rockets. Many Players somehow think these are only for DDs.

But they can actually be Really Strong against Cruisers as well. And in case of the Graf Zeppelin. The Big Rockets can even be used against Battleships. As in some cases they can even Penetrate a Battleships Deck Armor.

 

 

 

Thx for the insight, both of you.  o/ (Can't use forum smilies btw ^^)

 

As for the heavy AA - I did (mostly) enough corrections to my course, but it seems it was mostly luck as I did those corrections while looking for the black clouds.

Will give me a new attempt to it.

 

As for the rocket planes - so will look which CV I play, as with Shokaku for example I should rocket a Nürnberg to death and her following ship i nthe line, the Yorck, attack more with AP Bombs.

[Panocek]

5 hours ago, Sunleader said:

I am surely going to consider Squad Shortening when I want to Hit a Cleveland in the Future. As it really Costs Planes otherwise.

Keep in mind this is "merely" T8 cruiser.

 

If you want to test T10 cruisers I can provide quite a few in varying states of AA specs

[ChatBanForSayingTruth]

Is this "fix" somehow should have helped ships like Saipan to survive longer in tier 10 battles?

Sorry, haven't felt any improvement. Although doing ~60k-80k dmg still not hard (still below my averages), every attack or search for an attack feels frustrating.

 

Also WG can %$£"!!% with their HE bomb balance. SKILLS OF DROPPING NEEDS TO BE REWARDED. But then you attack afk stationary, AA off harugumo, line up the cyrcle perfectly and land 1 bomb! out of 2 attack attempts well then.... FU?

 

 

 

#buffsaipan

[asalonen]

9 hours ago, Alipheese_XV said:

I am curious about this: So I have to handle heavy AA like WG didn't animate the actual explosion, but the "aftereffect" (the black dust or how you would call it in english)?

Comparison to real life is not meaningful here, since the game doesn't even attempt to model real-life AA very well. In real life, when the AA shell exploded near your plane, you took the damage from shrapnel before you saw the the black cloud of burning gunpowder, and the shrapnel was deadly far outside the puff. Planes could see the puffs and expect more fire incoming around the same rough location and elevation. 

 

What's going on in the game is that the puffs are rendered client-side but hits and damage are calculated server-side. The puff that you see is not in the exact location where damage is dealt, but somewhere near. There's always some desync. You can get hit by flak and lose planes, yet the only visual feedback you get is planes suddenly being dead. 

 

So you should handle the puffs as an indication that you're under fire. If you stay in the AA aura you will be fired at again in exactly 2 seconds. They always aim in front of you, so don't go straight. 

 

 

[Panocek]

41 minutes ago, Sugertukas said:

#buffsaipan

its not #buffsaipan, its #getenty

 

7 hours ago, Alipheese_XV said:

As for the rocket planes - so will look which CV I play, as with Shokaku for example I should rocket a Nürnberg to death and her following ship i nthe line, the Yorck, attack more with AP Bombs

Shokaku with rockets can spank pretty much any cruiser except T10 ones with reinforced 30mm deck/amidship. Nurnberg can be one of the very few examples where AP bomb overpen can be a thing, but Yorck arms AP bombs just fine

 

9 hours ago, Alipheese_XV said:

So I have to handle heavy AA like WG didn't animate the actual explosion, but the "aftereffect" (the black dust or how you would call it in english)?

 

Would this also explain the few times where I didn't see any explosions but the rest of my squad evaporating faster then when a fighter cosumable is behind them?

Server places flak damage area and sends info to client to draw flak puffs there. Whether that happens in time, or at all is anyone guess. That and server sometimes places flak within squadron, infamous squad wipe out of blue.

 

8 hours ago, howardxu_23 said:

WG is being sneaky here, service costs of cvs are higher then same tier ships of other types.

Explains why I don’t earn as much for some reason.

What you're missing is lack of premium consumables to throw at the CV

 

 

[Filipin00]

On 6/30/2019 at 8:49 AM, Sunleader said:

The thing is.

Most of the Ships you meet as a T4 CV is Ships which dont actually have AA at all.

Because many T4 Ships have no AA Guns.

Yubari and his dfAA would love to have a word with you

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, Filipin00 said:

Yubari and his dfAA would love to have a word with you

That is whole single ship, hidden behind pay/coalwall. Out of how many T4 boats again?

[Excavatus]

first of all, I want to thank you guys doing that training runs.

That test and discussions about it really refreshened the topic :)

 

as a more surface ship captain, (I'm just playing harugumo actually.. :)
I can say, I like the 0.8.5 change..
yeah CVs can still hit me with their attack planes,

but with a little AA spec, they try to think twice because I usually get hit good by 1 in every 3 salvos,

and after the change, they don't have 3 salvos to send on me from the same squadron.

Especially Haku :)

I'm only afraid of midway attack planes If the captain is decent.. but thats life.. :) I can live with that..

 

oh and a bonus..

OMG.. a kaga want to kill me with her puny rocket planes

It was so much fun, I was like a lawnmower and kaga planes were grass! :)

[artic_99]

Vor 2 Minuten, Panocek sagte:

That is whole single ship, hidden behind pay/coalwall. Out of how many T4 boats again?

Orion and Wyoming are not too bad in terms of aa:) Same for Kaiser. 

[artic_99]

Vor 1 Minute, Excavatus sagte:

first of all, I want to thank you guys doing that training runs.

That test and discussions about it really refreshened the topic :)

 

as a more surface ship captain, (I'm just playing harugumo actually.. :)
I can say, I like the 0.8.5 change..
yeah CVs can still hit me with their attack planes,

but with a little AA spec, they try to think twice because I usually get hit good by 1 in every 3 salvos,

and after the change, they don't have 3 salvos to send on me from the same squadron.

Especially Haku :)

I'm only afraid of midway attack planes If the captain is decent.. but thats life.. :) I can live with that..

 

oh and a bonus..

OMG.. a kaga want to kill me with her puny rocket planes

It was so much fun, I was like a lawnmower and kaga planes were grass! :)

But you do realize that you are quite to immune to some cvs with your haragumo? I mean if you are only afraid of midway planes does that mean the others are just useless or how do I need to interpret this? Just asking I can't play the game myself atm.... 

[1MajorKoenig]

6 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

first of all, I want to thank you guys doing that training runs.

That test and discussions about it really refreshened the topic :)

 

as a more surface ship captain, (I'm just playing harugumo actually.. :)
I can say, I like the 0.8.5 change..
yeah CVs can still hit me with their attack planes,

but with a little AA spec, they try to think twice because I usually get hit good by 1 in every 3 salvos,

and after the change, they don't have 3 salvos to send on me from the same squadron.

Especially Haku :)

I'm only afraid of midway attack planes If the captain is decent.. but thats life.. :) I can live with that..

 

oh and a bonus..

OMG.. a kaga want to kill me with her puny rocket planes

It was so much fun, I was like a lawnmower and kaga planes were grass! :)

 

Thanks for describing how broken the patch is. A single DD immune to almost all CVs - do you see the problem with that? 

[Excavatus]

6 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

But you do realize that you are quite to immune to some cvs with your haragumo? I mean if you are only afraid of midway planes does that mean the others are just useless or how do I need to interpret this? Just asking I can't play the game myself atm.... 

1 minute ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Thanks for describing how broken the patch is. A single DD immune to almost all CVs - do you see the problem with that? 

 

 

I'm not immune against tier 10 CVs, or tier 8s. I can feel I'm immune only against kaga..

But I can dodge, I can protect myself against most CVs now.

Yes I will take damage. But If the CV captain is not skilled, I usually take minimal or no damage

and they take more damage in response.. So they need to decide if thats worth to attack me in my harugumo.

I can still eat (just happened last night) 9K salvo from a midway, and a 5K salvo from a haku.. yeah they can hurt me..

But now finally, I CAN HURT BACK.

So, now I'm not the only one to think about it when they decide to attack me.

If you ask me.. That looks like balance on my side :)

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

19 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

 

 

I'm not immune against tier 10 CVs, or tier 8s. I can feel I'm immune only against kaga..

But I can dodge, I can protect myself against most CVs now.

Yes I will take damage. But If the CV captain is not skilled, I usually take minimal or no damage

and they take more damage in response.. So they need to decide if thats worth to attack me in my harugumo.

I can still eat (just happened last night) 9K salvo from a midway, and a 5K salvo from a haku.. yeah they can hurt me..

But now finally, I CAN HURT BACK.

So, now I'm not the only one to think about it when they decide to attack me.

If you ask me.. That looks like balance on my side :)

Pfff come on, you can defend in a Shimakaze against an expert tier X CV now. no problem whatsoever. 
Surely, a CV can get 1 salvo off, with each of the three squads- and then hes out of planes for 5 minutes. Then he can try again, and hes out of planes for the entirety of the battle. 

[Excavatus]

1 minute ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Pfff come on, you can defend in a Shimakaze against an expert tier X CV now. no problem whatsoever. 
Surely, a CV can get 1 salvo off, with each of the three squads- and then hes out of planes for 5 minutes. Then he can try again, and hes out of planes for the entirety of the battle. 

Then we are witnessing different things.

Just last night, I was in a division with a former clan mate,

midway + Haru

we've won, He topped the team with 2.2K base XP with a couple kills... may be 3..
Never ever heard him complaining about the de-planing.

Oh yeah, I've heard him saying..
nope! not getting near to that cap.. there is a mino there..
nope.. Not anymore.. I love my pilots..
nope.. go away mino!

 

Yeah.. I've heard that..
But I personally believe, that is how it should be anyway.

 

[Isoruku_Yamamoto]

4 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Then we are witnessing different things.

Just last night, I was in a division with a former clan mate,

midway + Haru

we've won, He topped the team with 2.2K base XP with a couple kills... may be 3..
Never ever heard him complaining about the de-planing.

Oh yeah, I've heard him saying..
nope! not getting near to that cap.. there is a mino there..
nope.. Not anymore.. I love my pilots..
nope.. go away mino!

 

Yeah.. I've heard that..
But I personally believe, that is how it should be anyway.

 

Surely, i fully agree that any CV captain should go into full panic mode when he detects a hidden minotaur, and a spotted minotaur should be a no-go zone. 
Same for Worcestor. 

But a lone shimakaze should be an easy hunting target, where you lose 0 aircraft as a Shimakaze doesnt have AA. Reality is different though. 
I'm not saying a CV should be able to straightout destroy a Shima without effort, you just shouldnt lose planes to it. 
Thats how a Shimakaze is balanced, it comes without AA. 

Now, even a Minotaur should be possible to engage- but it should come at the cost of heavy, very heavy, losses. However, i've been playing my fletcher a bit lately and even in my fletcher i can prevent CVs from dropping at me at all. Shooting down full squads in a DD, even with Def AA, while im alone at a flank is just not okay. Shouldnt be possible. Its fun, and i've quit playing CVs for the duration of at least 0.8.5 mostly, so in that sense it can be fun for me, but i want to have a good time in my CVs. 

Never being able to get your last strike off is just weird. Why give a torpedo bomber squad 3x4 torpedo bombers when you're never allowed to use the last 4- at most 2 of the last group or something? Doesnt make sense to me. 

[artic_99]

Vor 26 Minuten, Excavatus sagte:

 

 

I'm not immune against tier 10 CVs, or tier 8s. I can feel I'm immune only against kaga..

But I can dodge, I can protect myself against most CVs now.

Yes I will take damage. But If the CV captain is not skilled, I usually take minimal or no damage

and they take more damage in response.. So they need to decide if thats worth to attack me in my harugumo.

I can still eat (just happened last night) 9K salvo from a midway, and a 5K salvo from a haku.. yeah they can hurt me..

But now finally, I CAN HURT BACK.

So, now I'm not the only one to think about it when they decide to attack me.

If you ask me.. That looks like balance on my side :)

Idk.... Maybe for haragumo it's fine, but other ships maybe benifit a bit to much from this patch. It cannot be that a lonely T10 bb rapes all planes of a tier 8 Carrier from the sky without even caring. Then again haragumo is an aa dd but Idk if a Shima for example hurts planes aswell that wouldn't be good. You have to pay for strength on your ships with weaknesses (I guess). It would not be good to have a Shima which can shred planes like haragumo or (even slightly worse) that wouldn't be good for the game as aa is a big weakness for Shima to pay of the amazing torps. That's just an example I think WG needs to tweak the aa of many ships so you have no fly zones (haragumo gearing etc) but also have ships that need aa support from teammates. Encourages teamplay ya know :P and teamplay equals fun for many players. Btw thx for your answer and the clearing of the suggestion thread. :) 

[Filipin00]

47 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

OMG.. a kaga want to kill me with her puny rocket planes

It was so much fun, I was like a lawnmower and kaga planes were grass! :)

Wait....you think you hurt kaga by shooting down her planes?

Oh you silly, puny, dd players

[Excavatus]

The following is the idea of mine but only mine!

11 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

But a lone shimakaze should be an easy hunting target, where you lose 0 aircraft

I disagree in principle. This is wrong.
Shima is the stealth king who shines best when goes alone on a flank or infront of the fleet

to spot enemy, to spot torps, etc etc.

11 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Shooting down full squads in a DD, even with Def AA, while im alone at a flank is just not okay

If thats a Heavy AA DD, I think it is perfectly ok! and should be like that from the beginning.

 

11 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

It cannot be that a lonely T10 bb rapes all planes of a tier 8 Carrier from the sky without even caring

Yeah, IMO, An AA heavy tier 10 BB shouldn't care about a tier 8 carrier at all! alone or not.. shouldn't matter.

 

11 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

You have to pay for strength on your ships with weaknesses

I already paid, I've replaced my reload module with AA2 module. So.. That is the price I paid. I lost DPM.

 

11 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

Btw thx for your answer and the clearing of the suggestion thread. :) 

I will try to keep it that way! Cheers.

 

6 minutes ago, Filipin00 said:

Wait....you think you hurt kaga by shooting down her planes?

Oh you silly, puny, dd players

 

No I don't think I hurt the kaga specifically. But I'm happy that I didn't get hurt by him either :)

 

Summary for CV mains.

The problem untill 0.8.5 is exactly what are you feeling since 0.8.5

HELPLESSNESS!

That was what Surface captains were mostly feeling against CVs for the start of the rework.

 

Can it be make into a good balance neither surface players nor CV captains can be both happy and feel useful?
I have my doubts... a very strong ones even.. But.. lets see..

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, Excavatus said:

The problem untill 0.8.5 is exactly what are you feeling since 0.8.5

HELPLESSNESS!

 

22 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

But I personally believe, that is how it should be anyway.

 

 

I don’t get the impression you are interested in a balanced state dude but are only looking for a personal advantage 

[Excavatus]

5 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

 

 

I don’t get the impression you are interested in a balanced state dude but are only looking for a personal advantage 

You are getting a wrong impression then

Because my Musashi still eats AP citadels from big E or Haku or Shokaku, but now they lose planes thankfully.

My Kronstad eats nice torps from midway anytime she passes by, but now I don't scared to death when my defAA is on cooldown

My shima eats enormous rocket damage from audacious or midway but now at least I can send the squadron back with some missing planes.

 

I don't want immunity,

but I want.. all and every single one of surface ships can be able to hurt the CVs back.

I want all ships to be able to fight back to some extend.

I played with my haku before 8.5.

A lone musashi was nothing.. Basically nothing... no threat.. notsoever!

yeah fighters.. for how long? will only kill what 4 planes?

I start the game with fecking 24 TBs... just at the start..

 

Yeah.. right now, If a musa captain fully specs for AA..
yeah she will continue to eat damage like a boss.. but there will be some floating wings around too..

that is at least feels ok. Remove that HELPLESSNESS feeling. and this is what the latest change about I understood.

[Atris2nd]

As I've said, anyone who invests in an AA build should be rewarded for it. You're limiting effectiveness vs some ships in order to increase your effectiveness against others. There's nothing wrong with even a DD being able to shred planes if that DD has made the conscious decision to specialize his ship in such a way. If I had a Shimakaze, I could see myself running AA. The only threat to a stealth Shima are other DDs and planes after all. Might as well eliminate one. I think my gunplay is usually good enough to handle myself vs DDs. But I digress, I don't have a Shimakaze so that's purely speculation. More over, I encourage DDs to try out AA if they're having issues with CVs. It can be very effective.

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, Excavatus said:

You are getting a wrong impression then

Because my Musashi still eats AP citadels from big E or Haku or Shokaku, but now they lose planes thankfully.

My Kronstad eats nice torps from midway anytime she passes by, but now I don't scared to death when my defAA is on cooldown

My shima eats enormous rocket damage from audacious or midway but now at least I can send the squadron back with some missing planes.

 

I don't want immunity,

but I want.. all and every single one of surface ships can be able to hurt the CVs back.

I want all ships to be able to fight back to some extend.

I played with my haku before 8.5.

A lone musashi was nothing.. Basically nothing... no threat.. notsoever!

yeah fighters.. for how long? will only kill what 4 planes?

I start the game with fecking 24 TBs... just at the start..

 

Yeah.. right now, If a musa captain fully specs for AA..
yeah she will continue to eat damage like a boss.. but there will be some floating wings around too..

that is at least feels ok. Remove that HELPLESSNESS feeling. and this is what the latest change about I understood.

 

Ok then I maybe misunderstood me.

 

But how do you like being the Kaga against any enemy DD then? Let’s pick a equal-tier one. Like Akizuki or some USN ones ?

[Sunleader]

10 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

You pay service cost every time regardless of whether you take damage or not.

Was changed ages ago so that camping s don't camp in the back trying to save money. Didn't work ofc because even now barely anyone knows this.

 

Didnt know that xD

Never noticed.

 

6 hours ago, Panocek said:

Keep in mind this is "merely" T8 cruiser.

 

If you want to test T10 cruisers I can provide quite a few in varying states of AA specs

 

Nah. I know how Scary T10 Cruisers are without testing that lol xD

 

3 hours ago, Sugertukas said:

Is this "fix" somehow should have helped ships like Saipan to survive longer in tier 10 battles?

Sorry, haven't felt any improvement. Although doing ~60k-80k dmg still not hard (still below my averages), every attack or search for an attack feels frustrating.

 

Also WG can %$£"!!% with their HE bomb balance. SKILLS OF DROPPING NEEDS TO BE REWARDED. But then you attack afk stationary, AA off harugumo, line up the cyrcle perfectly and land 1 bomb! out of 2 attack attempts well then.... FU?

 

 

 

#buffsaipan

 

Mate if its Frustrating that you actually have to work and make Decisions to make Kills and Damage. Then sorry but Play a Singleplayer Game.

Other Players are not Interested in playing Clay Bird for you.

 

1 hour ago, Filipin00 said:

Yubari and his dfAA would love to have a word with you

 

Aye its one of the few T4 Ships with Decent AA xD

Its actually rather Funny. Because many CVs down there have no idea how to even handle AA ^^

 

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

first of all, I want to thank you guys doing that training runs.

That test and discussions about it really refreshened the topic :)

 

as a more surface ship captain, (I'm just playing harugumo actually.. :)
I can say, I like the 0.8.5 change..
yeah CVs can still hit me with their attack planes,

but with a little AA spec, they try to think twice because I usually get hit good by 1 in every 3 salvos,

and after the change, they don't have 3 salvos to send on me from the same squadron.

Especially Haku :)

I'm only afraid of midway attack planes If the captain is decent.. but thats life.. :) I can live with that..

 

oh and a bonus..

OMG.. a kaga want to kill me with her puny rocket planes

It was so much fun, I was like a lawnmower and kaga planes were grass! :)

 

:)

 

And yeah. Some Players just dont know their CVs xD

Kaga Attacking an AA Heavy DD is much better off using HE Bombers. As they Deal much more Damage and got Bigger Squadrons to actually Sustain the DDs AA.

 

1 hour ago, artic_99 said:

But you do realize that you are quite to immune to some cvs with your haragumo? I mean if you are only afraid of midway planes does that mean the others are just useless or how do I need to interpret this? Just asking I can't play the game myself atm.... 

 

1 hour ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

Thanks for describing how broken the patch is. A single DD immune to almost all CVs - do you see the problem with that? 

 

Sure. Because being able to Prevent the Third Strike of a CV 2 Tiers Lower = Immunity to almost all CVs.

 

Edit: Removed part of this Answer. As People might be Offended by the Reference.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Excavatus said:

Then we are witnessing different things.

Just last night, I was in a division with a former clan mate,

midway + Haru

we've won, He topped the team with 2.2K base XP with a couple kills... may be 3..
Never ever heard him complaining about the de-planing.

Oh yeah, I've heard him saying..
nope! not getting near to that cap.. there is a mino there..
nope.. Not anymore.. I love my pilots..
nope.. go away mino!

 

Yeah.. I've heard that..
But I personally believe, that is how it should be anyway.

 

 

Your not the only one witnessing different things there...

 

But it might also just be a Difference in Perception.

For these Guys a Ship seems to be Counted as "Immune to CV Attacks" when he is Capable of Shooting down 1 or more Planes for each Attack against him.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Surely, i fully agree that any CV captain should go into full panic mode when he detects a hidden minotaur, and a spotted minotaur should be a no-go zone. 
Same for Worcestor. 

But a lone shimakaze should be an easy hunting target, where you lose 0 aircraft as a Shimakaze doesnt have AA. Reality is different though. 
I'm not saying a CV should be able to straightout destroy a Shima without effort, you just shouldnt lose planes to it. 
Thats how a Shimakaze is balanced, it comes without AA. 

Now, even a Minotaur should be possible to engage- but it should come at the cost of heavy, very heavy, losses. However, i've been playing my fletcher a bit lately and even in my fletcher i can prevent CVs from dropping at me at all. Shooting down full squads in a DD, even with Def AA, while im alone at a flank is just not okay. Shouldnt be possible. Its fun, and i've quit playing CVs for the duration of at least 0.8.5 mostly, so in that sense it can be fun for me, but i want to have a good time in my CVs. 

Never being able to get your last strike off is just weird. Why give a torpedo bomber squad 3x4 torpedo bombers when you're never allowed to use the last 4- at most 2 of the last group or something? Doesnt make sense to me. 

 

So your among the People which basicly would Agree to a more Extreme Difference.

Basicly Proper AA Cruisers should be able to just Delete entire Squadrons before they can Drop a Single Bomb.

While Ships without AA Should not cause Losses.

 

Unfortunately this is not within Possibility.

Because WG wants People to Play CVs. So WG made it so. That even against the Strongest Possible AA Ships. You will Still be able to Drop at least 1 Wing of Bombs.

And as long as a CV is Guaranteed to do Damage and Drop Bombs. You also have to be so Fair to also say that Ships should always be able to Return Fire against Aircraft and at least cost a few of them.

(However. I think this needs to be Noted. Shimakaze has Horrible AA. And will usually not Cost any Aircraft. The Reason why DDs lately can Cost Aircraft. Is because DDs have become the Prime Target of CVs and thus almost every Single DD will Install all the AA Modules to get Extra AA on their Ships. And thus actually Start Shooting out alot of AA against Aircraft.)

 

As for wanting a Good Time. We all Want that. But if you cant have it unless others Play Clay Bird for you. Then pls dont Play Games where Players Compete for Victory.

Because it is not Fun for anyone to be the Claybird which is Bombed constantly without even able of Returning Fire.

If you cant have a Good Time unless you can Bomb People without even losing Aircraft. Then your Good Time effectively means that Several Players in your Match are Prohibited from having a Good Time and have to be Frustrated for you to have a Good Time. Because they have to Serve as Helpless Fodder for you. And Sorry. But thats not happening.

 

 

53 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

The following is the idea of mine but only mine!

I disagree in principle. This is wrong.
Shima is the stealth king who shines best when goes alone on a flank or infront of the fleet

to spot enemy, to spot torps, etc etc.

If thats a Heavy AA DD, I think it is perfectly ok! and should be like that from the beginning.

 

Yeah, IMO, A heavy tier 10 BB shouldn't care about a tier 8 carrier at all! alone or not.. shouldn't matter.

 

I already paid, I've replaced my reload module with AA2 module. So.. That is the price I paid. I lost DPM.

 

I will try to keep it that way! Cheers.

 

 

No I don't think I hurt the kaga specifically. But I'm happy that I didn't get hurt by him either :)

 

Summary for CV mains.

The problem untill 0.8.5 is exactly what are you feeling since 0.8.5

HELPLESSNESS!

That was what Surface captains were mostly feeling against CVs for the start of the rework.

 

Can it be make into a good balance neither surface players nor CV captains can be both happy and feel useful?
I have my doubts... a very strong ones even.. But.. lets see..

 

I am more Impressed how many People Seriously go ahead and Openly Demand that People are made Helpless with the Statement that they dont have Fun unless they can Harass People that cant Fight back