CV Rework Discussion

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, CptBarney said:

Ahh i see.

 

same never played the former, dont have enough space to play the latter.

 

Ahh r.i.p from pano's screenie seems like she was from the yamato herself, but fair enough, (hope she gets crazy secondaries).

 

on wikipedia i saw at least 3 designs for CV's so yeah havent seen any italian cv's yet doe.

 

here:

 

Because Shinano WAS converted 3rd Yamato hull into... not so much carrier, as armored and armed plane ferry for carriers proper? #justnipponthings I guess

[El2aZeR]

27 minutes ago, CptMinia said:

So I assume it was closed beta, maybe alpha.

 

Was alpha (as can be seen in the screenshot ). Hakuryu was in CBT already.

And quite frankly out of the two I actually like Hakuryu much better. Sure, it's a paper design but Shinano was an engineering disaster.

 

I can only imagine what stupid gimmicks Akagi and Shinano are going to have. In fact I bet Shinano will end up as a testbed for the alt CV line considering she was supposed to be a support CV.

[Sunleader]

I am still for the German CV Line in that Regard.

 

In Fact Germany could get 2 Lines.

 

1.

CV Line.

 

T4= Seydlitz 18k Tons

A Light Carrier Design based on the Heavy Cruiser Hull of the Admiral Hipper.

Armed with 10x105mm Guns in Twin Turrets and a further 6x105mm Guns in Single Mounts

Capable of Carrying 18 Aircraft.

 

T6 = Potsdam 24k Tons

A Light Carrier Design of the Elbe Project.

Armed with 8x105mm Guns in Twin Turrets and 4x 105mm Guns in Side Mounts.

Capable of Carrying 24 Aircraft.

 

T8 = Carrier-B (Planned Sister Ship of the Graf Zeppelin) 23k Tons

Was Planned to have the exact same Specifications as Graf Zeppelin. So Free for WG to make some Differences like with Scharnhorst and Gneise etc.

 

T10 = Europa 56k Tons

A Carrier Design based on the Idea of Remodeling a Passenger Ship.

Armed with 12x105mm Guns in 6 Twin Turrets. (Same Setup as Graf Zeppelin but without the 150mm Side Guns)

Capable of Carrying 42 Aircraft.

 

 

2.

Cruiser Carrier Line.

Cruisers with Carrier Decks. And actual Armaments.

Could be a bit Different to Play. As they have Good Secondaries and could get some Extra Secondary Range. In Exchange for not having many Aircraft to Fight with.

Thus Expending their Aircraft and then Going into Combat :P

 

T4 = Flugdeckkreuzer E-IV 12k Tons

A Light Cruiser with a Carrier Deck.

Armed with 4x150mm Guns and 8x88mm Guns

Carrying only 10 Planes

 

T6 = Flugdeckkreuzer E-V 19k Tons

A Light Cruiser a Carrier Deck.

Armed with 8x150mm and 10x88mm Guns

Carrying 18 Planes.

 

T8 = Grossflugdeckkreuzer A-II 40k Tons

Heavy Cruiser with a Carrier Deck.

Armed with 4x203mm Guns, 16x150mm Guns and 16x105mm Guns

Carrying 24 Planes.

 

T10 = Grossflugdeckkreuzer A-III 70k Tons

Battlecruiser with a Carrier Deck.

Armed with 6x280mm Guns, 16x150mm Guns, 16x105mm Guns.

Carrying 32 Planes.

 

 

And before anyone comes with.

Oh Yeah Paper Designs never Existed.

 

The Soviets just got entire Paper Design Line.

So Shut Up :P

 

 

 

Could of course also be Combined into one Line Instead.

By Mixing the two lines together.

 

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

The Soviets just got entire Paper Design Line.

So Shut Up :P

Except Russians at least managed to build one BB from ones we have in game (even in 4 copies), while Sovietsky Soyuz was under construction, unlike your marvel of wasting Deutschland Stahl

[Sunleader]

16 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Except Russians at least managed to build one BB from ones we have in game (even in 4 copies), while Sovietsky Soyuz was under construction, unlike your marvel of wasting Deutschland Stahl

 

You do Realize that Graf Zeppelin was actually Build and simply never Equipped with the Internal Machinery right :P

And several of these Ships had been Started Construction as well,

 

So No Offense.

But I dont see any Notable Difference to the Soviet Fantasy Ships there.

In Fact the German Designs were likely further in terms of Construction.

 

 

(Also. If you want to Refer to German Stell just say "Kruppstahl" that way People will actually get what you want to say. If you say Deutschland Stahl people will just notice you got no Idea of German Language xD)

 

 

 

Edit:

 

Also why arent we getting these Skins for WoWs on PC as well ?

I assumed we would get them in the Second Event.

But Nope.

I got both Graf Spee and Graf Zeppelin.

Time for Extra Commanders and Skins lol.

(To begin with the WoWs Blitz Skins make more Sense than the ones we got for WoWs on PC....)

 

 

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

You do Realize that Graf Zeppelin was actually Build and simply never Equipped with the Internal Machinery right :P

And several of these Ships had been Started Construction as well,

 

So No Offense.

But I dont see any Notable Difference to the Soviet Fantasy Ships there.

In Fact the German Designs were likely further in terms of Construction.

 

 

(Also. If you want to Refer to German Stell just say "Kruppstahl" that way People will actually get what you want to say. If you say Deutschland Stahl people will just notice you got no Idea of German Language xD)

Just like Ganguts and they I guess even saw some service. Chapayevs, Kronshtadt, Stalingrad, Soyuz also were under construction.

[El2aZeR]

36 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Also why arent we getting these Skins for WoWs on PC as well ?

 

Not enough weeb power on these forums to pressure WG.

You can change this. 

[El2aZeR]

30 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

5.take out the slingshot exploit. 

Due to the slingshot exploit aa was easily avoidable and that's why the whole system didn't work. A fun system which is enjoyable for everyone and challenging as well would be the optimal solution. 

 

Slingshot can't be removed because it was meant to solve this:

 

So pick your poison. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Cambera_1]

5 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Slingshot can't be removed because it was meant to solve this:

 

So pick your poison. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Easy to remove - make the period before you can drop again longer - it doesn't need the immunity period after drops.

TB don't get immunity

[El2aZeR]

4 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

Easy to remove - make the period before you can drop again longer - it doesn't need the immunity period after drops.

TB don't get immunity

 

Which will prevent normal reengagement of a target. The current cd is already pretty close to the minimum time required to reengage.

 

Also TBs do actually get immunity, but it is a lot shorter because the camera doesn't stay with the torps after you drop. Same with RFs.

[Sunleader]

29 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Not enough weeb power on these forums to pressure WG.

You can change this. 

 

Well.

I am Playing.

 

 

in the Meantime.

 

And LOOOL.

This Ship is like.

Update 0.8.5 ????

Whats Update 0.8.5 ????

 

I just keep Sending my Aircraft right into the Enemy.

And at the end of the Match. I am still Filled with Aircraft like nothing happened xD

 

God.

I just had a T6-8 Match.

These Guys dont even have enough AA Power to Deplete my Torpedo Bombers.

I basicly just kept Spamming Torpedo Bombers for the Entire Match not giving a Crab about even evading AA.

And I still had Full Squadrons of TBs at the end xD

 

 

[Panocek]

18 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Well.

I am Playing.

 

 

in the Meantime.

 

And LOOOL.

This Ship is like.

Update 0.8.5 ????

Whats Update 0.8.5 ????

 

I just keep Sending my Aircraft right into the Enemy.

And at the end of the Match. I am still Filled with Aircraft like nothing happened xD

 

God.

I just had a T6-8 Match.

These Guys dont even have enough AA Power to Deplete my Torpedo Bombers.

I basicly just kept Spamming Torpedo Bombers for the Entire Match not giving a Crab about even evading AA.

And I still had Full Squadrons of TBs at the end xD

 

 

 

Which I wonder, if Kaga approach wouldn't be sort-of solution. Not necessarily large squadrons, but hefty reserves of otherwise origami planes.

[Sunleader]

3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

 

 

Which I wonder, if Kaga approach wouldn't be sort-of solution. Not necessarily large squadrons, but hefty reserves of otherwise origami planes.

 

Well.

I did get into a T10 Match now.

And went ahead for a Test.

 

Blob of:

Kremlin, GK, Des Moines, Salem, Bismarck and one more I forgot.

 

Kept Bombing it.

Of course Blob moved and changed over time due to them Driving around.

 

With 12 Minutes Left in the Game. I Finally Managed to Run out of Torpedo Bombers. xD

With 5 Minutes Left in the Game. I also Ran out of HE Bombers ^^

With 2 Minutes Left in the Game. I ran out of Assaults.

 

But at that Point I had enough other Planes again to Continue Attacking xD

 

I do think I made 2 Attack Runs with only 1 Full Wing.

Rest was all 2 Wings or more.

 

I did not Slingshot. I did not Shorten my Squads. I did not even care about AA. Just Kept Attacking regardless of Situation.

To See just how much I could Push this.

 

It is Definitively Possible to Run out of Aircraft. Even with Kaga.

But Heck Even in a T10 Battle its really Hard to Manage that.

 

(And for some Reason an Enemy Saipan really wanted me Dead. For the Entire Match he Kept Attacking me lol.)

 

And and Also.

 

@MacArthur92

I Finally Managed to get over the 80k Mark in a T10 Battle ^^

 

 

 

 

Well. To Begin with.

Kagas Planes are not that Weak to be Honest.

 

I didnt Feel like they got Shot down faster.

In Fact I feel they get Shot down way Slower.

And when you look at the Data.

 

Assaults have 1100 which is same as the GZ which also has 1100

TBs have 1300 instead of 1600 on the GZ But Kaga gets 3 more Aircraft in the Squadron.

And Bombers got 1100 instead of 1400 on the GZ while Kaga gets 4 more Aircraft in the Squadron.

 

So Kaga actually has a Larger HealthPool Squadronwise.

Also. The Last hit of AA per Aircraft. Will not carry over the Damage to the next Aircraft.

So if an Aircraft with 100HP is hit by an 1300 Damage Tick. It will only do 100 Damage and the Aircraft is Dead.

With the remaining 1200 Damage just going Poof creating an Additional Damage Sink due to Kaga having more Aircraft.

 

 

 

Which means I got another Skin I want.

 

 

 

Seriously Wargaming.

You should Implement these Skins to the PC Version.

I bet I am not the only one who would put Money on the Table for that :P

 

 

[thiextar]

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Which will prevent normal reengagement of a target. The current cd is already pretty close to the minimum time required to reengage.

 

Also TBs do actually get immunity, but it is a lot shorter because the camera doesn't stay with the torps after you drop. Same with RFs.

So remove the bomb follow-camera. Its pointless

[Panocek]

2 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Seriously Wargaming.

You should Implement these Skins to the PC Version.

I bet I am not the only one who would put Money on the Table for that :P

With WoWs blitz I've noticed a trend, with "follow up" titles of the same flavor (WoTB, WoWsB) developers of these titles tend to fix most gripes. Lack of arty, +-1 MM in WoTB, lack of secondary control (WoWsB). Dunno about boats portable, but tonks portable still have their share of quackups, otherwise it wouldn't be Wargaming

[artic_99]

Vor 4 Minuten, thiextar sagte:

So remove the bomb follow-camera. Its pointless

Yep and that also removes the slingshot. One problem less. 

[El2aZeR]

6 minutes ago, thiextar said:

So remove the bomb follow-camera. Its pointless

 

But then you no longer have glorious cinematic gameplay that pulls in s.

Aka this will never happen.

[artic_99]

Vor 2 Minuten, El2aZeR sagte:

 

But then you no longer have glorious cinematic gameplay that pulls in s.

Aka this will never happen.

 

Maybe they could divide between a drop in open water and a drop on a target. So if you drop on open water you don't get the immunity but while attacking a target you get it. 

[thiextar]

3 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

 

Maybe they could divide between a drop in open water and a drop on a target. So if you drop on open water you don't get the immunity but while attacking a target you get it. 

this^^ if you aim your bombs more than say 1-2km away from a ship = no immunity

[artic_99]

Vor 1 Minute, thiextar sagte:

this^^ if you aim your bombs more than say 1-2km away from a ship = no immunity

Even better send it to wg:P

[Sunleader]

2 hours ago, artic_99 said:

Hello folks, 

As many others as well I believe that 8.5 made cvs unplayable. But instead of bitching around I want to share my thoughts with anyone who wants to discuss the topic constructively. 

In order to make cvs a fun experience for everyone. I want to say this in advance I am open for any feedback and criticism from anyone because I am no game developer and my suggestions can be flawed. So my main points would be:

1. Give the cv a time delay for spotting like there is for radar. 

This first change would decrease early spotting as well as the damage a ship would take while being under cv attack simply because the fleet can't see the target. (dds would benefit the most) 

2.Remove rockets

Rockets are too strong against dds and too easy to use against them. By removing them the cv players would have to focus on bbs and cruisers. (dds would benefit greatly) 

3.replace rockets with other type of bombs. 

This is important because the cv should keep at least some power VS dds. A Japanese cv is not able to fight dds without rockets so it needs he bombs to fight against them effectively. It would still be much harder to hit the dd but it would not be impossible. I mean under normal circumstances a cv player would not go after dds but if he's under attack by a dd he could defend itself. The American and UK cvs would get ap bombs to compensate for the missing rockets. (rockets could also be a feature of the t8 UK premium cv) 

4.Reset Aa to pre 8.4

I believe aa was most balanced in 8.4 so far. It was funny but not too easy for cvs in 8.4. There are many ships that would need tweaking in the one or other direction in terms of aa but most ships are balanced. In general most low tier ships would need buffs and some high tier boats would need nerfs. But pls 8.5 aa is too frustrating because it takes out the rng part and you cant avoid heavy losses (deplaning way too quickly) . That makes the 8.5 system so frustrating. It is comparable to a situation in which it's guaranteed that a cv always makes 25k dmg if its attack comes through. 

5.take out the slingshot exploit. 

Due to the slingshot exploit aa was easily avoidable and that's why the whole system didn't work. A fun system which is enjoyable for everyone and challenging as well would be the optimal solution. 

 

PS: pls wg don't remove that thread because I want to open it as a constructive platform to discuss solutions for the cv issue that may help you out. I want to make it easy for you(WG) to get a basic overview of suggestions for your game to make the game better for all of us without forcing you to read the already existing thread which has continously proven itself as a place for players to rant about the issue instead of focusing on solving the cv issue at hand. I hope you can understand this and I hope that you(wg) actually consider some of those ideas to create a better game for all of us. 

 

Thanks for reading this in advance:) 

 Best regards one concerned player of all four classes. 

 

 

1.

Ok. Why not.

2.

Ok why not.

3.

Ok why not.

Could have 2 Sets of Bombers which use Different Bombs for example.

UK could get a Set of Level Bomber Dropping AP Bombs.

US could get a Set of Level Bombers with their Mini Bombs they liked to use in the Real War.

IJN could get a Set of HE Bombers.

GZ could actually keep the Rockets. GZ is using Heavy Rockets which are not that Effective against CVs. But can actually Penetrate and Damage most Cruisers.

4.

NO.

End of Story.

Sorry but 0.8.4 AA was Simply entirely Useless and basicly Completely Irrelevant to any CV unless he was Facing a Minotaur or Worcester.

As Proven by me right after the Update hit. You can easily do more than 25k Damage.

Its only a Question of proper Plane Management and Choosing Attacks Correctly.

Its a Simple L2P Issue when People cant cope with this Change.

And Honestly said. Experienced CV Players dont bother with that Change too much. Because from the get go they did not just Attack whatever they Found First.

Thus not actually Suffering that much from the new AA.

 

The New AA Introduced actual Decision Making for CVs again.

And Forces them to actually Learn how to use their CV because they cant just Attack anyone at any time anymore.

In 0.8.4 CVs could just Attack whoever they wanted without caring.

And we Seriously dont need that Back.

Pls Just Learn how to Choose Targets and how to Manage Losses.

 

 

5.

I am all for it.

But Removing it is Pretty Hard.

Because it always comes with a Tradeoff.

For example.

You could Implement a Longer Delay after the Slingshot so it cant be used to Avoid AA.

But then you also Prevent that the Bombers can be used to Attack the same Target again.

You could just make Aircraft Attackable during Slingshot.

But then you end up with alot of Losses which the Player cant do anything about.

Or you Could avoid the Animation entirely so there is Pause between Returning to The Squad.

But then People might just wait with Dropping the Bombs till they are down to the last moment.

 

 

 

Greetz.

[AirSupremacy]

4 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

1.

Ok. Why not.

2.

Ok why not.

3.

Ok why not.

Could have 2 Sets of Bombers which use Different Bombs for example.

UK could get a Set of Level Bomber Dropping AP Bombs.

US could get a Set of Level Bombers with their Mini Bombs they liked to use in the Real War.

IJN could get a Set of HE Bombers.

GZ could actually keep the Rockets. GZ is using Heavy Rockets which are not that Effective against CVs. But can actually Penetrate and Damage most Cruisers.

4.

NO.

End of Story.

Sorry but 0.8.4 AA was Simply entirely Useless and basicly Completely Irrelevant to any CV unless he was Facing a Minotaur or Worcester.

As Proven by me right after the Update hit. You can easily do more than 25k Damage.

Its only a Question of proper Plane Management and Choosing Attacks Correctly.

Its a Simple L2P Issue when People cant cope with this Change.

And Honestly said. Experienced CV Players dont bother with that Change too much. Because from the get go they did not just Attack whatever they Found First.

Thus not actually Suffering that much from the new AA.

 

The New AA Introduced actual Decision Making for CVs again.

And Forces them to actually Learn how to use their CV because they cant just Attack anyone at any time anymore.

In 0.8.4 CVs could just Attack whoever they wanted without caring.

And we Seriously dont need that Back.

Pls Just Learn how to Choose Targets and how to Manage Losses.

 

 

5.

I am all for it.

But Removing it is Pretty Hard.

Because it always comes with a Tradeoff.

For example.

You could Implement a Longer Delay after the Slingshot so it cant be used to Avoid AA.

But then you also Prevent that the Bombers can be used to Attack the same Target again.

You could just make Aircraft Attackable during Slingshot.

But then you end up with alot of Losses which the Player cant do anything about.

Or you Could avoid the Animation entirely so there is Pause between Returning to The Squad.

But then People might just wait with Dropping the Bombs till they are down to the last moment.

 

 

 

Greetz.

I disagree with "Sorry but 0.8.4 AA was Simply entirely Useless and basically Completely Irrelevant to any CV unless he was Facing a Minotaur or Worcester.". I found the 0.8.4 AA with its flak bursts and the way how planes received DPS damage well balanced.

[artic_99]

Vor 6 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

 

4.

NO.

End of Story.

Sorry but 0.8.4 AA was Simply entirely Useless and basicly Completely Irrelevant to any CV unless he was Facing a Minotaur or Worcester.

As Proven by me right after the Update hit. You can easily do more than 25k Damage.

Its only a Question of proper Plane Management and Choosing Attacks Correctly.

Its a Simple L2P Issue when People cant cope with this Change.

And Honestly said. Experienced CV Players dont bother with that Change too much. Because from the get go they did not just Attack whatever they Found First.

Thus not actually Suffering that much from the new AA.

 

The New AA Introduced actual Decision Making for CVs again.

And Forces them to actually Learn how to use their CV because they cant just Attack anyone at any time anymore.

In 0.8.4 CVs could just Attack whoever they wanted without caring.

And we Seriously dont need that Back.

Well I was not complaining that aa is changed I complained how they did this. 8.5 is way to effective 8.4 would need some tweaking as I said before. Even with 8.4 aa most ships had the best aa since ever. You can't just balance a class by the top 5%of the players. It must be good for everyone so it can be played by more people. I made midway work kind of. I just attacked single targets and just one strike per target. I still lost 4-5planes. I did not hit the aa clouds. Idk it feels first boring to play like this and second even tho I attacked lone targets with only one strike per attack I was deplaned after 10 mins. 95k dmg in the end with no fun at all. It is no fun if you have to literally work for your damage. If WG stays on the path they have taken there will be less cv players then pre rework. Cuz only those 5 percent of superpros can make it work. I am none of them I got decent games xp wise but it's just no fun at all. 

[CptMinia]

41 minutes ago, Panocek said:

With WoWs blitz I've noticed a trend, with "follow up" titles of the same flavor (WoTB, WoWsB) developers of these titles tend to fix most gripes. Lack of arty, +-1 MM in WoTB, lack of secondary control (WoWsB). Dunno about boats portable, but tonks portable still have their share of quackups, otherwise it wouldn't be Wargaming

Stay on topic you buggers.. I'm leaving in 2 days so just stay on topic until then please then you can torture another moderator!

[El2aZeR]

18 minutes ago, artic_99 said:

Maybe they could divide between a drop in open water and a drop on a target. So if you drop on open water you don't get the immunity but while attacking a target you get it. 

14 minutes ago, thiextar said:

this^^ if you aim your bombs more than say 1-2km away from a ship = no immunity

 

Inb4 teamkill to slingshot? 

On a more serious note, would be an issue with consistency that WG likes to praise. Personally I like the suggestion tho.