CV Rework Discussion

[Panocek]

@CptMinia Pretty much all aspects of the REEEwork were already beaten to death and then some more in this topic, so besides WG game updates or finds like staring at the sky crashes game there is little, if anything to be added. Besides, sole purpose of pinned topic like this is not to gather feedback, its simply to players have single spot to vent their frustrations and (hopefully) reduce load on moderation team.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 2 Stunden, Sunleader sagte:

Yo Mate.

Welcome back among the Living ^^

  

Thank you foe your welcome!

Careful my typos are also back and to lazy to correct them.

i really appreciate it to be back and sorry for shooting to fast but i wanted to quicken up those stale spirits and get you into engagement mode hehe ☆♡☆

 

Vor 2 Stunden, Sunleader sagte:

1.

This is how i can understand your post better.

By saying that you feel like the type of play needed to be successful is just not fun to you and probably many others i can get behind the statement of DDs being impossible to play.

Since i'm a very weird ball of poisoned cookie cream i find DDs and the Challenge CVs provide so fun that i increased my performance in them enough to earn me a DD elite mark thingy which i'm super proud of ☆♡☆

 

Vor 2 Stunden, Sunleader sagte:

After the Update I do not consider CVs to be extremely Overpowered anymore.

I do consider SOME Individual CVs to be Overpowered.

And I do actually also consider a few Individual CVs to have Suffered too much from the Update and Requiring a small Buff to cope with Plane losses.

 

I'm totally fine with what you just said here.

There are certain CVs which are as they are very overpowered especially considering them keeping their effectiveness even after the AA change. Namely Enterprise/Midway.

I still believe that Midway is the better candidate for random battles and Haku lacking behind. Ranked may be a different story but noone cares for ranked anyway.

So with Enterprise and Midway in my opinion still dominating and Saipan, Audacious and others being totally screwed i share your thoughts here.

 

Vor 2 Stunden, Sunleader sagte:

But thats not the Case. Squadrons are far from just being Deleted Instantly :P

So you can still do that

Yes those are the people who bathed in the OP ness of CVs we agreed on some 100 pages earlier.

Those are also the people who claimed CVs are braindead to play and some of them attacked me for playing CV because it's easy and the only thing i cpuld play reasonably well.

It's easy to try finding reasons and make them up on the go but when hell breaks lose none of them were prepared.

These nerfs were predicted to come. Many who needed exploits and counted mostly on those now don't understand how to dodge invisible flak and lose their squadron instantly. Most don't even understand invisible flak exists and that is not the only difference between good CV players.

@El2aZeR

is right in saying the skillgap is getting wider and wider which was not the intention of the rework.

But we got what we got and gotta live with that for now.

I noticed less CVs played and the tone WG is answering posts on reddit with carries a certain amount of humiliation in their texts.

 

 

Vor 2 Stunden, Sunleader sagte:

Most of the Repetition in my Posts is due to People Repeating the same Claims at me again and again

This is the reason why i reduced my posts even before my forced leave. Noone wants to come to an agreement and everyone just repeats the same things that were already discussed. Since you really put effort discussing CVs and for a non CV main you being pretty knowledgeable and more so then many of the people who jumped on CV and perform so good in them are now whining... it's becoming quite hard to find posts worth replying and challenging.

 

Vor 1 Stunde, Alfa_Tau sagte:

Obviously you are simply TOOO COOOL for us poor POTATOS that deserve to be farmed.

You should ask WG to create a dedicated server for SUPER SUPER COOOOOL UNICUM  like you that deserve better challenges.

 

Lol amazing reply ☆♡☆.

I have followed my Idols advice on not caring much for the average players needs anymore since those are quick to poison the well for everyone.

See your post.

 

You are not interested in performing well?Then why cry about the game being unfairly hard?

 

Vor 1 Stunde, CptBarney sagte:

You should also realise that a considerable portion of the playerbase plays the game as intended as a team based game and you wanting to relax and not contributing to the team is simply a selfish thing to do.

  

 

cute Barney i want to give you big hugs for that reply.

 

 

[CptBarney]

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

cute Barney i want to give you big hugs for that reply.

 

 

*sees notifcation*

 

*sees its from love and peace*

 

 

Spoiler

 

Managed to do 103k with miss hosho as well during the AA buff somehow. Had i think 2 tier 5 ships, but still.

 

[Sunleader]

13 minutes ago, Panocek said:

@CptMinia Pretty much all aspects of the REEEwork were already beaten to death and then some more in this topic, so besides WG game updates or finds like staring at the sky crashes game there is little, if anything to be added. Besides, sole purpose of pinned topic like this is not to gather feedback, its simply to players have single spot to vent their frustrations and (hopefully) reduce load on moderation team.

 

I Disagree Heavily on this.

After the Update 0.8.5 this Rework just got a Ton of new Aspects to it.

Especially as many CV Players Adapt to the New AA Changes and thus are better able to Cope with them.

 

As for the Rest.

Yes Unfortunately it does feel like its more of an "out of the way" thing.

Than a Place for the Devs to Check the Opinion on things.

 

Unfortunately (as I said before) WG Devs are extremely Stubborn on some things....

Wish they would pay more Attention to this.

It certainly is very hard to wade through the mess of Opinions and Arguments.

But alot of actually rather Good Points were made in this Topic.

And alot of the Arguments also Helped Greatly to Reveal the Underlying Problems that so many People have with certain things.

 

 

10 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Thank you foe your welcome!

Careful my typos are also back and to lazy to correct them.

i really appreciate it to be back and sorry for shooting to fast but i wanted to quicken up those stale spirits and get you into engagement mode hehe ☆♡☆

 

This is how i can understand your post better.

By saying that you feel like the type of play needed to be successful is just not fun to you and probably many others i can get behind the statement of DDs being impossible to play.

Since i'm a very weird ball of poisoned cookie cream i find DDs and the Challenge CVs provide so fun that i increased my performance in them enough to earn me a DD elite mark thingy which i'm super proud of ☆♡☆

 

 

I'm totally fine with what you just said here.

There are certain CVs which are as they are very overpowered especially considering them keeping their effectiveness even after the AA change. Namely Enterprise/Midway.

I still believe that Midway is the better candidate for random battles and Haku lacking behind. Ranked may be a different story but noone cares for ranked anyway.

So with Enterprise and Midway in my opinion still dominating and Saipan, Audacious and others being totally screwed i share your thoughts here.

 

Yes those are the people who bathed in the OP ness of CVs we agreed on some 100 pages earlier.

Those are also the people who claimed CVs are braindead to play and some of them attacked me for playing CV because it's easy and the only thing i cpuld play reasonably well.

It's easy to try finding reasons and make them up on the go but when hell breaks lose none of them were prepared.

These nerfs were predicted to come. Many who needed exploits and counted mostly on those now don't understand how to dodge invisible flak and lose their squadron instantly. Most don't even understand invisible flak exists and that is not the only difference between good CV players.

@El2aZeR

is right in saying the skillgap is getting wider and wider which was not the intention of the rework.

But we got what we got and gotta live with that for now.

I noticed less CVs played and the tone WG is answering posts on reddit with carries a certain amount of humiliation in their texts.

 

 

This is the reason why i reduced my posts even before my forced leave. Noone wants to come to an agreement and everyone just repeats the same things that were already discussed. Since you really put effort discussing CVs and for a non CV main you being pretty knowledgeable and more so then many of the people who jumped on CV and perform so good in them are now whining... it's becoming quite hard to find posts worth replying and challenging.

 

 

Lol amazing reply ☆♡☆.

I have followed my Idols advice on not caring much for the average players needs anymore since those are quick to poison the well for everyone.

See your post.

 

You are not interested in performing well?Then why cry about the game being unfairly hard?

 

 

cute Barney i want to give you big hugs for that reply.

 

 

 

You on the other Hand seem to be rather Talkative after being back *gg*

I dont think I saw any such Long Posts from you before ^^

 

 

1.

Well.

I do like Challenge. But Challenge means you can Beat it if you do well enough.

And currently the only way to Beat this Challenge is to basicly sit back and do nothing for 5-10 Minutes.

 

And dont get me Wrong.

But the target of WG was to make CVs more Accessible and more Action like.

So they dont have the long Loading and Waiting Times in a Battle. And become easier to Play for a larger Playerbase.

 

And if the CV Rework ends up instead Turning DDs into a Class which cant be Played by most of the Playerbase due to having very high Requirement of Experience and Skills.

And DDs ending up having very long Waiting Times in the Battle.

 

Then Somehow I dont think that this has worked out properly.

We merely Shifted the Problem from CVs to DDs.

And on Top the DDs dont even have Benefit of being Incredible Powerful if you overcome this Barrier like the CVs in RTS had :)

 

Even more so when considering. That the CV does actually Fit into that Category of Ship which should be Strategic Gameplay with more Decisionmaking and Planning than Action.

While DDs are Supposed to be the GoTo Class for Fast Paced Action on the Foremost Frontline where Skills and Agility are more Importand than Planning and Strategy.

 

Might just be Me. But Somehow this absolutely does not Sit well with me.

 

 

3.

Well. For Fairness said.

Before the Update it was not that easy to make a Difference.

After all even Average Potatos could really go Straight to Blue.

And if one Paid a Minimal Effort he could go Violet in CVs.

So actually making a Difference between someone with Skill in CVs and someone just Riding on the Curtails of CVs being so Overpowered that they could Ignore most Situational Differences of the Battlefield.

Was not such an Easy Task.

Even less when many People did not Play CVs themselves and thus only noticed that they got Bombed over and over and could not do anything about it.

 

Also.

I am actually in Favor of Good Skill Gaps.

Might be just me.

But Despite being a Casual Player.

I do think its Importand in PvP Games that Skill makes a very Notable Difference!

It has to be possible for New Players to get a Foot in the Door of Course.

But if Skill only makes a small Difference then the Game is not Suited for PvP in my Eyes.

 

(Oh and... Did you mean "Humility" by any Chance xD or did you really want to say Humiliation there xD )

 

 

4.

I will take that as a Compliment.

And Yes. I wasnt Joking when I said that back there already.

If someone cant back up his Words with Actions. Then his Words have no Value.

 

When Someone says CVs are Overpowered and too easy to Play. And has Blue to Violet Statistics in CVs despite only having a few Hundred Games in them.

And Someone else says He is easily Defending against CVs in other Ships while having Red and Orange Stats in these other Ships.

 

Then only a Fool would claim that these two Peoples Words have Equal Weight in an Argument.

 

If I would not be able to actually Back up my Words I would have Stayed out of here in the First Place because I would feel like a Hypocrite :P

 

This might be a very Self Centered View. I wont deny that. And it surely doesnt mean that everything I say is Right.

(I mean last time I checked I did not have any Holes in my Hands. So I am obviously not Jesus and thus also not Unfaillable.)

But the Reason why for Example I was gone down from Claiming that CVs are Overpowered. Is also because after the Update. I actually have to make quite the Effort to get Good Stats down.

It has become much more Challenging and Requires much more Tactical Thinking to actually get Good Games.

And while I think my Stats are still pretty good for a Casual Player.

I am simply not Performing Good enough with CVs to Claim that they would be Ridiculously Overpowered anymore.

 

After all if they were. Then why Cant I just Dish out 100k Games anymore like I could so easily before the Update ? :)

 

 

 

 

35 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

*sees notifcation*

 

*sees its from love and peace*

 

 

  Hide contents

 

Managed to do 103k with miss hosho as well during the AA buff somehow. Had i think 2 tier 5 ships, but still.

 

 

Pls Stop xD

Otherwise I feel triggered and have to Post Anime Pictures as well xD

[CptBarney]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

Pls Stop xD

Otherwise I feel triggered and have to Post Anime Pictures as well xD

you can't resist...so why resists?

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

i would go for miss audacious if she wasn't so fat, slow, smoll and noiseh.

[Panocek]

13 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Unfortunately (as I said before) WG Devs are extremely Stubborn on some things....

Wish they would pay more Attention to this.

First, "devs" reside on RU forums and RU community is their target audience, otherwise you wouldn't have complete RU navy with premium at every tier

 

When WG mentioned removal of Musashi and Kronshtadt with "they've become too popular", it caused some confusion as EU stats were fine. Battles played were on higher end, but that is kinda expected for a premium, to be used to grind credits and captain exp. Then I've poked into RU stats, and there Musashi had about the twice battles played in time period as next most popular BB, Kron was high as well. I'll try to dig out that post, but it was like year ago?

 

 

EDIT found it

Kron was 2nd highest, after Donskoi, but Musashi had almost 4 times played than next ship

actual link, as older data goes to archive

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/pastrecords/20181215/ru_week/average_ship.html

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 7 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

Humility

i meant this i'm sorry pls don't punch me, no punchies pls. ♡

 

There is not much more i can add to your post since i mostly agree. just wanted to let you know anyways.

 

 

 

 

[Sunleader]

25 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

you can't resist...so why resists?

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

i would go for miss audacious if she wasn't so fat, slow, smoll and noiseh.

 

Nah ^^

There is the Right Place and Time for things.

And this right now is not the right time for Posting Anime Pictures. (<--- is what he says after he Spend over 10 Minutes looking for a Good Picture to Post in Response before giving up because he could not find anything he deemed appropriate for the CV Discussion....)

 

 

But well.

Have to Post at least something I guess.

 

So how about Pointing out that the Graf Zeppelin in Exchange for its Fairly low Capabilities at Bombing Ships. (Compared to other CVs)

Does have other Qualities which might not be entirely Useful for this Class in all Situations. But which do come in Handy every now and then. And allow for some things that other CVs simply cant do :)

 

Like the Citadel which Lies Pretty Good below the Waterline making it Extremely Resilent to BB Guns,

The Armor which is not that Thin and Allows it to Bounce and Shatter alot of HE Shells.

Or the newly Buffed Armament of 12x105mm and 16x150mm Guns with pretty high HE Penetration that can cause Significant Damage even to Heavy Cruisers and with 9km have a Pretty good Range for Secondaries :)

 

Because Yep.

This Actually happened in my last Game xD

 

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Panocek said:

First, "devs" reside on RU forums and RU community is their target audience, otherwise you wouldn't have complete RU navy with premium at every tier

 

When WG mentioned removal of Musashi and Kronshtadt with "they've become too popular", it caused some confusion as EU stats were fine. Battles played were on higher end, but that is kinda expected for a premium, to be used to grind credits and captain exp. Then I've poked into RU stats, and there Musashi had about the twice battles played in time period as next most popular BB, similarly Kron. I'll try to dig out that post, but it was like year ago?

 

Ah no need for the Effort.

I know this from the get Go.

 

Its not an Isolated case either.

This kind of thing has happened a few times over the Years when WoT was the only Game in WarGamings portfolio.

 

[Tugnut]

At the end of the day looks like CVs are heading back to be very skilled based!- so this begs the question why the CV change in the first place?... Maybe to sell prem CV's

[Sunleader]

6 minutes ago, Tugnut said:

At the end of the day looks like CVs are heading back to be very skilled based!- so this begs the question why the CV change in the first place?... Maybe to sell prem CV's

 

They have headed back a little.

They are still FAAAR easier to Play than before.

 

And worse they are also still making the Game very Hard for DD Players.

So this is far from Fixed.

[Panocek]

So... I had encounter against Midway DB in Yoshino, ship with AA you can describe at best as "mediocre" with exception of short range (261/280/583). In little panic mode due to just barely surviving BB salvo I've thrown in everything - sector (without MAA), DFAA, Cat and a sink for a good measure. Out of 12 planes only two managed to drop ordnance, with two bombs on target simply because I've found D key on keyboard, even with this glacier of a bote. 10 AA kills and 2 Cat kills.

 

Which brings the question, is the balans we're striving for, if not an "AA ship" without AA specialization can become next to immune due to finding few keys on a keyboard

[CptBarney]

anyway besides the above does anyone know if anymore cv lines are planned for the future?

[NoirLotus]

12 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

anyway besides the above does anyone know if anymore cv lines are planned for the future?

 

Well the alternative CV lines (the former CV at odd tier) are supposed to come for USN and IJN, but I seriously doubt that WG manage to give a support role on CV as they are already struggling to balance them right now ...

 

With only 4 ships per line, it must be possible to make a CV branch for France and Italy, I guess, and WG will certainly find sekret documentation for a soviet CV line ...

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

So... I had encounter against Midway DB in Yoshino, ship with AA you can describe at best as "mediocre" with exception of short range (261/280/583). In little panic mode due to just barely surviving BB salvo I've thrown in everything - sector (without MAA), DFAA, Cat and a sink for a good measure. Out of 12 planes only two managed to drop ordnance, with two bombs on target simply because I've found D key on keyboard, even with this glacier of a bote. 10 AA kills and 2 Cat kills.

 

Which brings the question, is the balans we're striving for, if not an "AA ship" without AA specialization can become next to immune due to finding few keys on a keyboard

 

No offense.

But your using 2 Limited Consumables which on top have a Decent Reload.

On a T10 Cruiser with pretty Decent AA Power.

Against the Squadron Type which has to get closest and stay in your AA Range for the longest.

And Despite all that. You did not manage to entirely Prevent the Drop of the Ordnance.

 

So No Offense.

But if anything. Thus Shows that AA could still go a Nodge up.

After all what use would it be to Launch 2 Anti Air Consumables at once.

If it cant even make you Immune against A SINGLE AIRSTRIKE ?

 

Because afterwards you cant use these for a while. Or even never again if you used all of em.

Meaning since you effectively Tripled your AA Power.

The next Time he will not just get through with his Squadron but likely Bomb you Twice before you get his Squadron down.

 

And that DBs.

If he had used TBs he would not have needed to get close like that and stay in your Range that long.

Thus likely having taken far less losses :)

 

Or is the Kind of Balance that you are Striving for. One where no matter how much AA and Effort a Surface Ship Expends he can never even Mitigate the First Airstrike ? :)

Which is basicly what we had in 0.8.4 and which consequently also means. That without DFAA and Cats you basicly end up being Bombed by one Squadron 3-4 Times because in order to have AA weak enough that it cant tough the First Strike even with DFAA and Cats. Means at the same time the AA will also need to be so weak. That when it does not have DFAA and Cats you end up being Bombed 3-4 Times at once.

 

Sorry. But that would not be very Balanced.

Even more so when you consider that not every Ship even has Cats and DFAA and thus cant even do this anyways.

Only Cruisers which are Supposed to Counter CVs have it.

 

10 minutes ago, NoirLotus said:

 

Well the alternative CV lines (the former CV at odd tier) are supposed to come for USN and IJN, but I seriously doubt that WG manage to give a support role on CV as they are already struggling to balance them right now ...

 

With only 4 ships per line, it must be possible to make a CV branch for France and Italy, I guess, and WG will certainly find sekret documentation for a soviet CV line ...

 

I hope we get a German CV Line.

Since Germans are good with Secondaries.

I would Suggest the Z-Plan Flugdeckkreuzer for this ^^

Scharnhorst Turrets for Secondaries *gg*

[Panocek]

2 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

No offense.

But your using 2 Limited Consumables which on top have a Decent Reload.

On a T10 Cruiser with pretty Decent AA Power.

Against the Squadron Type which has to get closest and stay in your AA Range for the longest.

And Despite all that. You did not manage to entirely Prevent the Drop of the Ordnance.

 

So No Offense.

But if anything. Thus Shows that AA could still go a Nodge up.

After all what use would it be to Launch 2 Anti Air Consumables at once.

If it cant even make you Immune against A SINGLE AIRSTRIKE ?

Keep in mind, that is unbuffed AA. If I had MAA, BFT and what have you I don't think Midway DB squad would made it to the drop at all. On cruiser with again, average base AA.

If not for my ship back then having 400hp and heal patching up, I wouldn't used both as I've had already few battles in Ibuki of all ships, capable of inflicting significant casualties post 0.8.5 simply by alternating consumables while patching any damage inflicted just fine. Thats 8 consumables. On a single ship. Team consists of 12 ships. Even writing off 4 of them as DD, that leaves us 7 ships most of which having either Cat, DFAA or sometimes both. Ironically enough, only "AA cruisers" having Cat are USN CA, which usually is traded for Radar. And BB make up for lack of DFAA with base dps of AA, especially short range one, making sure not many planes return.

 

So if average AA ship is expected to be plane immune upon facerolling keyboard, then why bring AA cruiser at all?

[Sunleader]

44 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Keep in mind, that is unbuffed AA. If I had MAA, BFT and what have you I don't think Midway DB squad would made it to the drop at all. On cruiser with again, average base AA.

If not for my ship back then having 400hp and heal patching up, I wouldn't used both as I've had already few battles in Ibuki of all ships, capable of inflicting significant casualties post 0.8.5 simply by alternating consumables while patching any damage inflicted just fine. Thats 8 consumables. On a single ship. Team consists of 12 ships. Even writing off 4 of them as DD, that leaves us 7 ships most of which having either Cat, DFAA or sometimes both. Ironically enough, only "AA cruisers" having Cat are USN CA, which usually is traded for Radar. And BB make up for lack of DFAA with base dps of AA, especially short range one, making sure not many planes return.

 

So if average AA ship is expected to be plane immune upon facerolling keyboard, then why bring AA cruiser at all?

 

1.

Cats alone are by far not Sufficient to Stop Strikes.

So the BBs with Cats wont Stop a Strike like this. And they dont have DFAA.

Meaning these Ships are not at all Immune to Air Strikes. In Fact. Due to the Long Launchtime of Cats.

They are extremely Vulnearble. Because if Cats arent Launched while your still 10km away they will not be Ready for Action in time for your Strike.

But if they are Launched at 10km away you got Ample time to just Change Target and leave the Cat uselessly wasted in the Air Circling.

2.

DFAA and Cats last 1 Minute and are then Unavailable for some Time.

So if the CV is mean. He lets you Trigger it. And then just Attacks someone else.

And thats assuming that you can always Perfectly tell that your the one who is Attacked. Which you almost never can unless your Isolated and the only Target in the Area.

At which point using both is basicly a Loan on your remaining Lifetime. Because then the CV knows you cant do anything for the next 2-3 Minutes and thus can Bomb the Crab out of you all he wants :)

3.

Team Consists of 12 Ships.

Max 5 are Cruisers.

Chances for Cruisers with Decent AA and DFAA is about 50/50

So out of 12 Enemy Ships there is maybe 3-4 Ships in the Enemy Team which can in Theory make themselves very Hard to Attack for 3x1 Minutes of the Match.

 

 

Sorry. But thats not really Impressive.

 

 

As for the Reason to Bring AA Cruisers ?

Thats Simple.

AA Cruisers Strongest AA is usuall Long and Medium Range.

Their Role is not to be Immune to Air Strikes which they are not at all.

It is to Support other Ships and make Attacks on them more Expensive for a CV.

 

 

Moreover.

What you Stopped was Dive Bombers :) (Well not even Stopped as he still got the Strike out)

This Class of Bombers most Ill Suited for Attacks on Strong AA Targets. (Unless your abusing the Game Weakness and Slingshot on Target which I myself never do as I consider it a Bug abuse)

If he had used Torpedo Bombers you not even reduced his Squadron by 50% before he Dropped :)

 

 

[Panocek]

25 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

1.

Cats alone are by far not Sufficient to Stop Strikes.

So the BBs with Cats wont Stop a Strike like this. And they dont have DFAA.

Meaning these Ships are not at all Immune to Air Strikes. In Fact. Due to the Long Launchtime of Cats.

They are extremely Vulnearble. Because if Cats arent Launched while your still 10km away they will not be Ready for Action in time for your Strike.

But if they are Launched at 10km away you got Ample time to just Change Target and leave the Cat uselessly wasted in the Air Circling.

Considering whole principle of REEEwork is to let at least one attack run through, heavy casualties on first run are somewhat contradicting, while Cats are guaranteed plane kills. 

 

25 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

2.

DFAA and Cats last 1 Minute and are then Unavailable for some Time.

So if the CV is mean. He lets you Trigger it. And then just Attacks someone else.

And thats assuming that you can always Perfectly tell that your the one who is Attacked. Which you almost never can unless your Isolated and the only Target in the Area.

At which point using both is basicly a Loan on your remaining Lifetime. Because then the CV knows you cant do anything for the next 2-3 Minutes and thus can Bomb the Crab out of you all he wants :)

Something you solve by triggering DFAA when you're sure you're about to receive attack run. Basic DFAA usage, tracing back to RTS carriers, really. And when you're singled out ship with low 4digit hp and you see DB squad coming your way... I doubt CV player will casually practice bombing on island next to me

 

25 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Team Consists of 12 Ships.

Max 5 are Cruisers.

Chances for Cruisers with Decent AA and DFAA is about 50/50

So out of 12 Enemy Ships there is maybe 3-4 Ships in the Enemy Team which can in Theory make themselves very Hard to Attack for 3x1 Minutes of the Match.

Again.

Yoshino have dps as follows: 261/280/583

Zao: 197/212/400

HIV: 169/633/-

Moskva: 217/325/306

Stalingrad: 320/325/500

Hindenburg: 209/592/371

DM: 163/875/211

Salem: 163/875/-

Wooster: 248/946/371

Minotaur: 247/1281/317

 

Only Zao have universally worse AA than Yoshie, while most ships more than make up for her above average long/short AA with doubled mid range. So if one of the worst AA cruisers at tier 10 on her own, with no AA investment can cockblock T10 CV, any other cruiser should be only better at it.

 

Then you throw in BBs with no burst value of DFAA, but their base dps is nothing to sneeze at either.

[Sunleader]

23 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Considering whole principle of REEEwork is to let at least one attack run through, heavy casualties on first run are somewhat contradicting, while Cats are guaranteed plane kills. 

 

Something you solve by triggering DFAA when you're sure you're about to receive attack run. Basic DFAA usage, tracing back to RTS carriers, really. And when you're singled out ship with low 4digit hp and you see DB squad coming your way... I doubt CV player will casually practice bombing on island next to me

 

Again.

Yoshino have dps as follows: 261/280/583

Zao: 197/212/400

HIV: 169/633/-

Moskva: 217/325/306

Stalingrad: 320/325/500

Hindenburg: 209/592/371

DM: 163/875/211

Salem: 163/875/-

Wooster: 248/946/371

Minotaur: 247/1281/317

 

Only Zao have universally worse AA than Yoshie, while most ships more than make up for her above average long/short AA with doubled mid range. So if one of the worst AA cruisers at tier 10 on her own, with no AA investment can cockblock T10 CV, any other cruiser should be only better at it.

 

Then you throw in BBs with no burst value of DFAA, but their base dps is nothing to sneeze at either.

 

1.

Cats are only Guaranteed Plane Kills if the CV is Incompetent.

Otherwise they do nothing.

Against a Competent CV they are only a 40 Second Delay of the Attack.

Because if he is in the Attack Run and already at around 6km he will just Boost through and Finish the Attack before the Cats even React.

If he is 10km away he will just Wait 30-40 Seconds with the Attack because afterwards the Cats wont do anything anymore.

 

Saying Cats are Guaranteed Plane Kills is about as meaningful as saying a DDs Torps are a Guaranteed BB Kill.

Sure they are.

If the BB is Stupid and basicly Broadsides a DD thats 3km away.

 

By that Logic AP  DBs are Guaranteed Triple Citadels as well.....

 

2.

Yep.

Never said you should not have Triggered it.

But as I said.

Its a Loan on your Lifetime.

because if the Midway had wanted.

After that you had 2 Minutes Cooldown.

So for the next 2 Minutes he could have Bombed you Easily and there would have been absolutely nothing you could have done about it. :)

 

3.

Uff.

First off Disclaimer.

The List you Provide is not that Useful.

Because the Ranges are Weapon Dependent.

And Different Ships have Different Ranges for these 3 Zones.

But that aside.

 

Your Long Range AA is actually the Second Strongest in the Game. And if its Short Ranged. Then you actually got the DBs inside it way more.

Only being Bested by the Salem.

So you likely already Heavily Damaged the Enemy Aircraft when they Arrived.

 

Your Medium Range AA is pretty Weak for a Cruiser.

Or at least for a T10 Cruisers. Its more T9 Cruiser level.

 

Your Close Range AA again is actually Decent.

And the Close Range AA is the one most Importand against Divebombers. Because this is where they Raise for the Dive and Spend alot of Time inside the AA.

 

Please also note.

As you used DFAA

Your AA at this Point was actually Doubled.

So thanks to DFAA you had 520/560/1160

Which as you likely Notice. is quite the Strong AA actually.

 

 

 

And Mate.

No Offense.

But you didnt.

 

You Did not Manage to Block it.

He Still Dropped.

And you Expended BOTH Consumables for it.

Meaning that in Exchange for Costing that CV one Squadron. You Afterwards were Complete Food for that CV if he wanted to Kill you :)

Because from there on your AA for the next 2 Minutes was useless to stop him :)

 

 

I Bombed alot of Yoshinos over the last few Days. (Since Hey New Ship everyone has to Drive it meaning you get like 2 of em per Team every Round lol)

And the Yoshino even with DFAA and Cats is not really that Dangerous.

Most of the Time I can Bomb it at least Twice before the Losses force me to Press F.

And if it uses DFAA and Cats. Its a Prime Target. Because thanks to the Short AA Range. I can easily Stalk it and easily Leave its Range after Attack.

So when it has no Consumables anymore I can often even Bomb it 3 Times if the Squad has 4 Drops like the DBs.

 

 

 

 

 

Again Mate.

You need to think about Consequences again.

 

If you make AA of these Cruiser so Weak.

That even with Cats and DFAA at once which effectively Triples the AA Value (the Cats are more of their own AA but yeah)  they cant even destroy that Squadron in 1 Pass.

Then this Automaticly means.

That this Ship without using DFAA and Cats would basicly not be able to Kill a Single Aircraft in a Pass.

 

If you made Yoshino AA so Weak. That with DFAA and Cats it would not be able to Kill a Single Squadron of Midway in the First Pass.

Then without the DFAA and Cats. The Midway with the same Squad could Effectively make 4 Passes on it.

 

Sorry but do you Realize what this Means ?

That means that with my DBs on Haku I would Effectively have an almost Guaranteed Alpha of 100k Damage against a Yoshino with ONE SQUADRON.

And the only thing Standing between me and that 100k Potential Damage would be the RNG of Hitting the Citadel.

 

A GK lately Learned how Bad it is to Allow me to have 3 Passes on him with DBs due to having overextended and being alone.

Because in these 3 Passes I cost him 40k HP.

Leaving him with 2k HP of 44k HP he had before. (He was hit by a Few HE Shells in between)

 

 

You need to Consider Consequences Mate.

WG Gladly Dropped this Idea that 1 Pass has to be Guaranteed under any Circumstances.

Otherwise we would never come down from CVs being Ridiculously Overpowered.

 

Now you at least have a Chance to Prevent First Drop if a Cruiser with very Good AA uses DFAA.

Or if there is 2 Decent Cruisers using DFAA at once.

 

If not for WG dropping the idea of Guaranteed First Strike. We would still be here and talk about Ridiculously overpowered CVs.

And pls note.

Even tough its now Theoretically Possible to Prevent First Strike.

I never even a Single Time. Had a Single Ship manage to do it.

Not even a Minotaur.

So far the only cases where I am Denied a Strike is when there is 3-4 Ships in a Blob and they have an AA Cruiser.

And even then its usually a Last Minute Drop or only an Incomplete Drop as I still manage to Drop Partially.

And also it only ever happened to DBs and Assaults.

TBs have never even once been Blocked so far. :)

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Sorry but do you Realize what this Means ?

That means that with my DBs on Haku I would Effectively have an almost Guaranteed Alpha of 100k Damage against a Yoshino with ONE SQUADRON.

And the only thing Standing between me and that 100k Potential Damage would be the RNG of Hitting the Citadel.

I guess you're missing the part of managing consumables - if I see Haku on other side, its obvious I'll wait with DFAA and maybe even Cat for DB, because I know he/she/apache will bring bombers when CV notices I've wasted DFAA on rockets or what have you. That and running in circles is surprisingly efficient counter to bombs in general. Midway DB are arguably the hardest hitting option with rockets following.

[Sunleader]

14 minutes ago, Panocek said:

I guess you're missing the part of managing consumables - if I see Haku on other side, its obvious I'll wait with DFAA and maybe even Cat for DB, because I know he/she/apache will bring bombers when CV notices I've wasted DFAA on rockets or what have you. That and running in circles is surprisingly efficient counter to bombs in general. Midway DB are arguably the hardest hitting option with rockets following.

 

Midway also has 6 Torps per Drop.

Which is more than Sufficient if 2 or 3 hit for Damage.

 

And pls Note.

Each Class has Pros and Cons.

 

Midways Favorite Target is DDs and BBs not Cruisers.

Cruisers are Generally the worst Target for CVs because they Generally have at least Decent AA and are Maneuverable enough to at least make Aiming a bit Harder.

 

Albeit no Offense.

Yoshino Driving Circles has never Stopped me from landing Bombs on it.

Yoshino is simply not Fast enough for this.

 

I assume ti will help against less Experienced CVs.

Because less Experienced CVs tend to forget that a Ship Turning will move its Hull Sidewards in the Turn.

And they often only Lead the Aim to the Front not to the Side because they dont know that yet.

[CptMinia]

3 hours ago, CptBarney said:

she is a mod you *edit*.....

 

anyway besides the above does anyone know if anymore cv lines are planned for the future?

Just to let you know, Excavatus removed their wall of text. Widar didn't post the red text.

 

As for the CVs, there should be alternative lines for the IJN and USN comprised of the odd-tier carriers. The fact only 4 CVs are in a line now also means that we could see lines for the Marine Nationale (french) and Regina Marina (Italian).

There are already threads proposing such lines.

 

As for premiums, I try poking the question about Shinano and Akagi every stream I can. In one of the more recent streams the answer I got seemed to imply there is a good chance we could see those CVs coming back as they have been modeled. The Akagi was modeled but never released as far as I know and the Shinano used to be the tier X CV before Hakuryu. Obviously this was a long, long time ago.

 

Here, have an Akagi.

 

Spoiler

 

[CptBarney]

Just now, CptMinia said:

Just to let you know, Excavatus removed their wall of text. Widar didn't post the red text.

 

As for the CVs, there should be alternative lines for the IJN and USN comprised of the odd-tier carriers. The fact only 4 CVs are in a line now also means that we could see lines for the Marine Nationale (french) and Regina Marina (Italian).

There are already threads proposing such lines.

 

As for premiums, I try poking the question about Shinano and Akagi every stream I can. In one of the more recent streams the answer I got seemed to imply there is a good chance we could see those CVs coming back as they have been modeled. The Akagi was modeled but never released as far as I know and the Shinano used to be the tier X CV before Hakuryu. Obviously this was a long, long time ago.

 

Here, have an Akagi.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

that message really confused me lol. i legit thought he was typing in red text.

 

also, that sounds noice, i was expecting the azur lane akagi, im guessing thats kancolles akagi?

 

never heard of shinano too be honest, im guessing she was around in closed beta testing. I would like to see french and italian cv's (cruisers first doe), im guessing germans will just get made up ons or maybe conversions of already existing ships like a karlshure cv at tier 4 bayern varient at tier 6 bismarck varient at tier 8 and GK varient at tier 10?

 

can i has god tabbu instead pls? also i tried shipfus in warthunder and it was fun but scary and confusing.

 

 

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

 

that message really confused me lol. i legit thought he was typing in red text.

 

also, that sounds noice, i was expecting the azur lane akagi, im guessing thats kancolles akagi?

 

never heard of shinano too be honest, im guessing she was around in closed beta testing. I would like to see french and italian cv's (cruisers first doe), im guessing germans will just get made up ons or maybe conversions of already existing ships like a karlshure cv at tier 4 bayern varient at tier 6 bismarck varient at tier 8 and GK varient at tier 10?

 

can i has god tabbu instead pls? also i tried shipfus in warthunder and it was fun but scary and confusing.

 

 

More like alpha

 

Same with Takao being silver T8, which got replaced with Mogami, so Takao could return as premium Atago... except there were minor differences between Atago and Takao, which are modeled in game

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/64601-whats-the-difference-takao-class/

 

So, yeah, Arpeggio Taco you could consider to be Taco proper.

[CptMinia]

13 minutes ago, CptBarney said:

that message really confused me lol. i legit thought he was typing in red text.

 

also, that sounds noice, i was expecting the azur lane akagi, im guessing thats kancolles akagi?

 

never heard of shinano too be honest, im guessing she was around in closed beta testing. I would like to see french and italian cv's (cruisers first doe), im guessing germans will just get made up ons or maybe conversions of already existing ships like a karlshure cv at tier 4 bayern varient at tier 6 bismarck varient at tier 8 and GK varient at tier 10?

 

can i has god tabbu instead pls? also i tried shipfus in warthunder and it was fun but scary and confusing.

 

 

Yep I know it confuses people, not the first time it has either.

 

Also yeah, that is Kancolle's Akagi. I don't play Kancolle though and I haven't been near Azur Lane in months...

 

Shinano didn't last very long in the war, in fact it lasted 10 days before being sunk. As for the game version, I was in open beta and never saw her. So I assume it was closed beta, maybe alpha.

 

Italian and French CV lines are possible, there were ships that existed/were being built and there are designs that could fit into the game.

 

God tabbu? 

[CptBarney]

3 minutes ago, CptMinia said:

Yep I know it confuses people, not the first time it has either.

 

Also yeah, that is Kancolle's Akagi. I don't play Kancolle though and I haven't been near Azur Lane in months...

 

Shinano didn't last very long in the war, in fact it lasted 10 days before being sunk. As for the game version, I was in open beta and never saw her. So I assume it was closed beta, maybe alpha.

 

Italian and French CV lines are possible, there were ships that existed/were being built and there are designs that could fit into the game.

 

God tabbu? 

Ahh i see.

 

same never played the former, dont have enough space to play the latter.

 

Ahh r.i.p from pano's screenie seems like she was from the yamato herself, but fair enough, (hope she gets crazy secondaries).

 

on wikipedia i saw at least 3 designs for CV's so yeah havent seen any italian cv's yet doe.

 

here: