CV Rework Discussion

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, Panocek said:

And what are chances *exactly* of landing hits with these sea mines against non afk cruiser in long range fashion?

 

Apparently Pretty High *gg*

Given I hit Several Cruisers in this Match :)

 

 

And in case you Wonder.

Yes. I Citadelled that Worcester *gg*

Sorry. Could not Resist.

 

Since Everyone keeps saying oh it just Instant Deletes your Squads and so on.

I have to now and then Bring some Reality to this Topic.

[arcticstorm123]

10 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Well Yes.

In case you missed it.

His Screenshot is an After the Fact Check in the Training Room of the Torpedo Spread.

 

I actually Played an Random Battle with Real Players where I hit the BB with all Four Torps.

 

I merely tought they are Converging because they go Thinner towards the End.

But the Distance might have Fooled my Eyes There.

They got a Good Spread from the Start.

Its just due to the High Distance of Attack you dont Notice it right away.

Yeah thanks for the clarification, wasn't following that closely, think apparent convergence is due to perspective because of the torp guide,.

 

That picture just bought back bad memories of getting decimated attacking up-tier cruisers, probably less likely with a tier X game  

[Panocek]

13 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

But well. Fact is I hit all 4 Torps on that BB :)

I've planted 4/4 just for lols into Musashi as well...

Doesn't make 4TB THE ultimate pick for Haku. Though as anti blob option, without TA it can be handy at times. Rest of the times its 20km Shima option - its there and it takes... extraordinary people to get caught on it.

 

My main pet peeve is lack of indication if ship is moving - lead indicator be damned, give me binoculars to see dem smokestacks

[Sunleader]

9 minutes ago, arcticstorm123 said:

Yeah thanks for the clarification, wasn't following that closely, think apparent convergence is due to perspective because of the torp guide,.

 

That picture just bought back bad memories of getting decimated attacking up-tier cruisers, probably less likely with a tier X game  

 

You got Kaga ?

Then Yeah.

T10 is much less Sensible to AA xD

 

Kaga has Twice the Reserves of Planes.

But her Planes are Basicly T6-7

So in a T10 Match they Die like Flies. 

 

The Hakus T10 Planes are Actually much harder to kill than the T8 CVs Planes I used so far.

 

 

4 minutes ago, Panocek said:

I've planted 4/4 just for lols into Musashi as well...

Doesn't make 4TB THE ultimate pick for Haku. Though as anti blob option, without TA it can be handy at times. Rest of the times its 20km Shima option - its there and it takes... extraordinary people to get caught on it.

 

My main pet peeve is lack of indication if ship is moving - lead indicator be damned, give me binoculars to see dem smokestacks

 

Cool :)

 

Never Said its Ultimate Choice :P

But Someone Claimed it would be entirely Useless and make it Impossible to Hit anything due to the Long Activation Distance.

I forgot who it was tough.

 

And I clearly think that this Torp Option is rather Good.

Dropping 4x9k Damage Torps is Really Hurting.

The 2 Hits you can do fairly Easily with the Double Drop can also be done pretty easily with this Drop.

And you do also often get Triple Hits and get a Single Hit where otherwise you might not have hit at all :)

 

So this not being an Usable Option etc like someone Claimed some ten Pages back.

Is in my Eyes completely Disproven. :)

[AwesomeBoat]

Why can CVs spot everything when they don't even risk their own ship?

[Panocek]

19 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

You got Kaga ?

Then Yeah.

T10 is much less Sensible to AA xD

 

Kaga has Twice the Reserves of Planes.

But her Planes are Basicly T6-7

So in a T10 Match they Die like Flies. 

 

The Hakus T10 Planes are Actually much harder to kill than the T8 CVs Planes I used so far.

 

 

 

Cool :)

 

Never Said its Ultimate Choice :P

But Someone Claimed it would be entirely Useless and make it Impossible to Hit anything due to the Long Activation Distance.

I forgot who it was tough.

 

And I clearly think that this Torp Option is rather Good.

Dropping 4x9k Damage Torps is Really Hurting.

The 2 Hits you can do fairly Easily with the Double Drop can also be done pretty easily with this Drop.

And you do also often get Triple Hits and get a Single Hit where otherwise you might not have hit at all :)

 

So this not being an Usable Option etc like someone Claimed some ten Pages back.

Is in my Eyes completely Disproven. :)

I've claimed its inferior because you're limiting yourself to BB sized targets and sheer luck guy will keep straight lining. On cruisers you can consider yourself lucky if you land 2 hits assuming guy isn't alergic to WSAD

 

That and for long range drops you need to give lead, except you have no point of reference which is more of a UI thing. I guess if you spend two days in training room you might get better at it, but you're still putting all cards on "guy will keep sailing straight" basket.

[arcticstorm123]

55 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

You got Kaga ?

Then Yeah.

T10 is much less Sensible to AA xD

 

Kaga has Twice the Reserves of Planes.

But her Planes are Basicly T6-7

So in a T10 Match they Die like Flies. 

 

The Hakus T10 Planes are Actually much harder to kill than the T8 CVs Planes I used so far.

 

Actually got all the tier 8's tree and Prems so far (got lucky getting 3 Premiums from 2x 20 Euro boxes, Kaga is in fact the only I  bought directly in shop) and just ground out the Brit tier 8.

 

I had head start on the JP and US CV's as I had already been playing RTS.

 

I've been waiting for the re-work to settle down (vain hope I know) and stuck to co-op and scenario's for same reason, and been looking where to go for tier X, I used to favour Japanese in RTS but looking at Shokaku I'm a bit underwhelmed so far, do the Japanese get better for tier X?

[Yare_Yare]

2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

1.

This is Bullcrab.

But even if we go with this as your Explanation.

CVs in Exchange have the Bonus of not being at Risk at all.

Ships with High Alpha Damage like DDs and BBs have to Risk their Ship in order to have a Chance at this kind of Damage :)

 

Moreover. In case you missed it.

But BBs high Alpha Damage comes with the Distinct Disadvantage of Terrible Accuracy.

Cruisers low Alpha Damage comes with the Distinct Advantage of Great Accuracy :)

 

CVs actually have both.

AP Bombs have pretty bad Accuracy for a CV.

But an Very High Alpha Damage.

While most other CV Attacks have pretty low Alpha.

But are very Accurate :)

Lowest Alpha being the Rockets which in Exchange are near Impossible to Miss unless you completely Miss the Aiming.

 

2.

And if you got a Properly Specced T10 Battleships you can Deny other T10 BBs from Killing you entirely by not giving them Broadside :)

Sorry Mate.

But your making the Standard Mistake. Of basicly Assuming that the BBs get Perfect Situation. While the CV gets Worst Situation Possible.

You basicly Compare the Damage a CV does to a BB that is entirely and accurately Focused on Avoiding Damage from Air Attacks with all its Power.

And Compare it to a Battleship that is basicly a Complete Noob Showing his Broadside to the Battleship with the Biggest Guns in the entire Game :)

 

How about we Turn this Around.

A Tier T10 BB which is Properly Playing his Ship can Survive Fire from a Yamato for the Entire Match without even losing Half of his HP :)

Meanwhile a CV can Actually Kill a T10 BB in less than 5 Minutes if it Shows Straight Line to an CV with AP Bombs :)

 

I just now Killed an T8 BB like this.

The BB was Showing his Bow to my Allied BBs.

So they were Shooting at him with Several BBs. But could not do much about it. Because Bow Tanking BB is actually pretty hard to Penetrate and thus wont take much Damage in one Hit.

But its Perfect Chance for me.

Because I went in. And I knew. He cant Turn to the Side. If he Does the BBs will Delete him with Citadel.

But this way. I Deleted him with Triple Citadel which Dealt 27k Damage to him in a Single Drop :)

 

Notice what I did there ?

Two People can Play this Game Mate :)

 

3.

Usual Answer on this one Mate.

If its So Easy to Do.

Then I am Eagerly Awaiting your Evidence of that.

Please Show us how you Easily do 80k Hits to Enemy BBs with your Yamato :)

Show us how you dont Accumulate Damage in Small Hits over the Course of the Match. But basicly constantly Just Delete Ships all at once so they cant Repair :)

 

I.ll be Waiting for it :)

 

4.

CVs have less Alpha than Cruisers.

But their Actual Damage is much much Higher per Hit.

Most Cruisers are very Happy about even a 10k Hit or more.

As a CV I will do 10k Hits Pretty Regular. And will also do 20k Hits like above :)

 

 

Sorry Mate.

But all your doing there is Grasping for Straws to cling to.

 

 

 

 

Actually they do have this Restriction.

Because if Surface Ships mess up like this.

They dont lose a Squadron. They get Killed.

And then they basicly have to Wait for the Rest of the Match to use that Ship again.

 

And No.

Your getting that a bit Wrong.

 

We Demand Ridiculous Amount of Plane Kills because this is whats needed to Affect CVs.

So far the Plane Kills were far too low.

And thanks to that.

Plane Kills barely ever Affected CVs.

 

Now after the Update. Plane Kills do actually Affect CVs.

And CVs do now have to Pay some heed to AA.

They cant just Attack whatever they want anymore.

 

What do you mean its Bullcrap you havent disproven any of my points??

CVs Hull Safety is irrelevant because a CV still gets weaker and weaker over the course of a battle  because you can attack its planes while other ships profit from AR. By the time you reach a CV hes most likely almost out of planes anyway so it doesnt matter when he dies.
And many ships can fire from smoke, islands or simply from 20km like the conq and still be relatively safe. And you cant shoot down their shells like you can planes can you?

Yes Cruisers are more accurate then BBs so what? That doesnt change the fact that i stated in the slightest, BBs are still centered around citadel damage while cruisers focus on non citadel Chip Damage.
"And if you got a Properly Specced T10 Battleships you can Deny other T10 BBs from Killing you entirely by not giving them Broadside :)" - yes this is exactly why i said that as a BB the majority of your damage should be from broadsite hits, not regular salvos, you are proving my point that countered your 

 

"So unless you basicly want to Claim.

That BBs basicly Do their 80k Damage all at once at one Time in a Battle.

And then are basicly Floating around Uselessly for the entire rest of these Battles.

Your Argument would make no Sense."

 

argument that claimed BBs do the majority of their Damage with small hits rather then punishing broadsides, wich is FALSE in a correctly played BB. So my argument does make sense.

 

"But your making the Standard Mistake. Of basicly Assuming that the BBs get Perfect Situation. While the CV gets Worst Situation Possible.

You basicly Compare the Damage a CV does to a BB that is entirely and accurately Focused on Avoiding Damage from Air Attacks with all its Power.

And Compare it to a Battleship that is basicly a Complete Noob Showing his Broadside to the Battleship with the Biggest Guns in the entire Game :)"

I didnt do any mistake, im not ASSUMING a perfect situation but talking about actual experience in regular random battles in the current OP AA tier 10 meta. The CV is always in a bad spot because of the insane AA with all the AA Specced Jean Barts, Yamatos, Yoshinos, Harugumos, Grosovois, Gearings and not to mention all the Minos, Worcesters and Des Moines that are im almost every single battle. What do you mean a BB entirely focused on avoiding damage from AA attacks? I have NEVER seen a single BB that didnt focus on avoiding Air attacks, they dodge my damn torps even when it means showing broadside to 3 enemy BBs, every single one Immedietly starts dodging and launches fighter planes what are you talking about. Broadside situations happen in EVERY single random battle, you see people broadsiding you ALL the time, its not a special miracle situation that you only see rarely, tier 10 is full of noobs. In every battle you have bow tanking ships and broadside opportunities. Look at this freakin des moines in this video. It showcases both how much broadside you see in a typical random battle aswell as how much Damage you can do if you exploit those and play the ship right. No CV in the game can do this much Damage in such a short period of time at same Tier targets without a high cost of planes.
 

"But their Actual Damage is much much Higher per Hit.

Most Cruisers are very Happy about even a 10k Hit or more.

As a CV I will do 10k Hits Pretty Regular. And will also do 20k Hits like above :)" 

Yes thats exactly what i explained to you earlier? The lower your alpha potential is, the higher your normal raw damage has to be to compensate.

DD - Very High Alpha Potential - Very low DPM
BB - High Alpha Potential  - Low DPM
CA- Medium Alpha Potential - Medium DPM
CL- Low Alpha Potential - High DPM
CV - No Alpha Potential = Very High DPM    <- Reason why CV Average Damage is higher then other ship classes but can be surpassed by BBs and DDs that got alot of Alpha Strikes in a Battle



27k AP bomb "alpha" damage seems high, i have never personally seen AP bombs hit for that much even when they citadel. Even if so you flew for 1-2 min+ to reach your target and lost atleast half your squadron because AP Bombers fall like Flys (specially Hakuryu and Graf Zepp ones) because they need to get so close. Or are you talking about AP bombing a Bismarck with  a tier 10 Carrier while exploiting the slingshot mechanic?  Even in this scenario the alpha damage is much lower of even a Minotaur that caught a DD or another Cruiser Broadside.

I dont need to grasp for any straws because you are disproving your own points while proving mine, typing nonsense and putting stupid smileys behind it like you just gave an epic comeback, give me a f*ing break. 
 

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, arcticstorm123 said:

Japanese get better for tier X?

Haku rockets are actually good, only 8 of them per plane, but they have 2nd highest damage per rocket after TiTs, surpassing Zao HE shell and they have 30mm pen, so T10 cruisers are viable targets.

TB hits much harder and you have 12 planes per squadron in two flavors - 2TB you should be familiar and 4TB, supposedly long range option, but extra gimmicky to use as intended (long range) or somewhat easy to evade when point blank due to slow 40kts speed and LONG arming distance of 1.2km

AP bombs improve in pen and alpha, so in practice they are anti cruiser tool mostly, with Yamato, Wurst and Kremlin being consistent targets, Montana is unpredictable and UK/FR are nope.avi when it comes to citadels from above.

 

6 minutes ago, Yare_Yare said:

27k AP bomb "alpha" damage seems high, i have never personally seen AP bombs hit for that much even when they citadel

For Haku its 3x8500=25500, and that includes all three bombs landing on point. It is possible, but just like devstrike from BB, many RNGesus blessings are involved

[Yare_Yare]

1 hour ago, mariouus said:

Actually no. I did think the same at first. But after calculation, it is not the case. Average player does really low damage per salvo. Easily compareable (or less) do the damage they can do in CV.

 

Non-CVs have very high potential damage. But low sustained damage.CVs have low alpha, but substantsial sustained damage. 

Im pretty sure even Musashis do more then 6k per Salvo at 15ish Km, let alone Legendary Moduled Yamatos. And yes you are correct with the alpha and sustained damage, thats why im trying to explained to this people why they should not look at raw damage numbers to compare if a CV does too much damage or not in order to decide  if they should cry for nerfs or not.  Most of them just look at stats and see CVs having double the amount and then think their BB should have the same number. A CV should always have higher DPM then any other ship because it lacks the alpha strike potential they have.

Its rather comparible with a Storm sending water waves where a BB will send lots of small waves that hit your coast that do nothen but also a sudden giant freakwave Tsunami wave every once in a while that wrecks your entire island, while a Carrier is more like a Storm that sends twice the amout of water, but only in small waves over a long time and there is no risk of freakwaves.

A CV should always have higher DPM then any other ship because it lacks the alpha strike potential they have.

[Yare_Yare]

8 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Haku rockets are actually good, only 8 of them per plane, but they have 2nd highest damage per rocket after TiTs, surpassing Zao HE shell and they have 30mm pen, so T10 cruisers are viable targets.

TB hits much harder and you have 12 planes per squadron in two flavors - 2TB you should be familiar and 4TB, supposedly long range option, but extra gimmicky to use as intended (long range) or somewhat easy to evade when point blank due to slow 40kts speed and LONG arming distance of 1.2km

AP bombs improve in pen and alpha, so in practice they are anti cruiser tool mostly, with Yamato, Wurst and Kremlin being consistent targets, Montana is unpredictable and UK/FR are nope.avi when it comes to citadels from above.

 

For Haku its 3x8500=25500, and that includes all three bombs landing on point. It is possible, but just like devstrike from BB, many RNGesus blessings are involved

Yeah i tought so but unless you abuse the slingshot mechanic 70% of your squad will be dead after the first drop because the haku planes have such low health that even a Yamato destroys them.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

2 hours ago, thiextar said:

Sub_octavian responded to such a question in the reddit thread. The answer was no, because it was harder to do.

 

From what hes said, they are going for a hitpoint increase of a few % on the planes

Changing regeneration rate would be hard?  That surprises me.

[Widar_Thule]

 

Just for fun...

 

 

Courtesy of the NA Forum

 

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/194731-cvs-seem-perfect-now-d/

 

[Sunleader]

12 minutes ago, Yare_Yare said:

What do you mean its Bullcrap you havent disproven any of my points??

CVs Hull Safety is irrelevant because a CV still gets weaker and weaker over the course of a battle  because you can attack its planes while other ships profit from AR. By the time you reach a CV hes most likely almost out of planes anyway so it doesnt matter when he dies.
And many ships can fire from smoke, islands or simply from 20km like the conq and still be relatively safe. And you cant shoot down their shells like you can planes can you?

Yes Cruisers are more accurate then BBs so what? That doesnt change the fact that i stated in the slightest, BBs are still centered around citadel damage while cruisers focus on non citadel Chip Damage.
"And if you got a Properly Specced T10 Battleships you can Deny other T10 BBs from Killing you entirely by not giving them Broadside :)" - yes this is exactly why i said that as a BB the majority of your damage should be from broadsite hits, not regular salvos, you are proving my point that countered your 

 

So unless you basicly want to Claim.

That BBs basicly Do their 80k Damage all at once at one Time in a Battle.

And then are basicly Floating around Uselessly for the entire rest of these Battles.

Your Argument would make no Sense.

 

argument that claimed BBs do the majority of their Damage with small hits rather then punishing broadsides, wich is FALSE in a correctly played BB. So my argument does make sense.

 

"But your making the Standard Mistake. Of basicly Assuming that the BBs get Perfect Situation. While the CV gets Worst Situation Possible.

You basicly Compare the Damage a CV does to a BB that is entirely and accurately Focused on Avoiding Damage from Air Attacks with all its Power.

And Compare it to a Battleship that is basicly a Complete Noob Showing his Broadside to the Battleship with the Biggest Guns in the entire Game :)"

I didnt do any mistake, im not ASSUMING a perfect situation but talking about actual experience in regular random battles in the current OP AA tier 10 meta. The CV is always in a bad spot because of the insane AA with all the AA Specced Jean Barts, Yamatos, Yoshinos, Harugumos, Grosovois, Gearings and not to mention all the Minos, Worcesters and Des Moines that are im almost every single battle. What do you mean a BB entirely focused on avoiding damage from AA attacks? I have NEVER seen a single BB that didnt focus on avoiding Air attacks, they dodge my damn torps even when it means showing broadside to 3 enemy BBs, every single one Immedietly starts dodging and launches fighter planes what are you talking about. Broadside situations happen in EVERY single random battle, you see people broadsiding you ALL the time, its not a special miracle situation that you only see rarely, tier 10 is full of noobs. In every battle you have bow tanking ships and broadside opportunities. Look at this freakin des moines in this video. It showcases both how much broadside you see in a typical random battle aswell as how much Damage you can do if you exploit those and play the ship right. No CV in the game can do this much Damage in such a short period of time at same Tier targets without a high cost of planes.
 

"But their Actual Damage is much much Higher per Hit.

Most Cruisers are very Happy about even a 10k Hit or more.

As a CV I will do 10k Hits Pretty Regular. And will also do 20k Hits like above :)" 

Yes thats exactly what i explained to you earlier? The lower your alpha potential is, the higher your normal raw damage has to be to compensate.

DD - Very High Alpha Potential - Very low DPM
BB - High Alpha Potential  - Low DPM
CA- Medium Alpha Potential - Medium DPM
CL- Low Alpha Potential - High DPM
CV - No Alpha Potential = Very High DPM    <- Reason why CV Average Damage is higher then other ship classes but can be surpassed by BBs and DDs that got alot of Alpha Strikes in a Battle



27k AP bomb "alpha" damage seems high, i have never personally seen AP bombs hit for that much even when they citadel. Even if so you flew for 1-2 min+ to reach your target and lost atleast half your squadron because AP Bombers fall like Flys (specially Hakuryu and Graf Zepp ones) because they need to get so close. Or are you talking about AP bombing a Bismarck with  a tier 10 Carrier while exploiting the slingshot mechanic?  Even in this scenario the alpha damage is much lower of even a Minotaur that caught a DD or another Cruiser Broadside.

I dont need to grasp for any straws because you are disproving your own points while proving mine, typing nonsense and putting stupid smileys behind it like you just gave an epic comeback, give me a f*ing break. 
 

 

1.

Actually I did in the last Post.

But you just went and Repeated it lol.

And I am not going to Answer it again and again.

 

2.

Mate.

CVs have usually 1 Reserve Squad for each Type.

So you have to lose 6 Whole Squads before your out of Action. FOR SOME MINUTES.

If a Surface Ship makes this many Mistakes. HE IS OUT OF THAT MATCH BECAUSE HE IS DEAD.

So Yes CV Hull Matters like Hell.

Because as long as CV Hull is not Dead. He can Still Attack again.

 

3.

Smoke can be Fired at and Torped.

Islands can be Fired Over from 2 Sides. And on Top you need to be Fairly Close for this often being in Range for Several Enemies.

And 20km is NOT Safe LOOOOL.

Especially not at T10 where some Ships got 24km Range.

Needless to say. Many Enemy Ships that cant Attack you at 20km away. Also wont be Attacked at this Range cause you dont See them :)

 

4.

Yes Mate.

But this is the Thing.

CVs can Do Damage REGARDLESS of the Players Actions :)

They cannot be Countered.

Thats why they have low Alpha.

BB Basicly does between 1k Damage and 30km Damage with a Salvo.

With Vast Majority Sitting on about 4k Damage.

The Hakuryou with the 2x Torp Bombers effectively has an Damage Expectancy of 5k-15k

With vast Majority Sitting around 8-10k

 

And Sorry Mate. But this is an ADVANTAGE for CVs.

Not a Disadvantage lol.

Because in Average you will do way more Damage than a BB.

And Especially you will do that Damage to a Target you want Dead and not to the one currently giving you a Good Shot.

 

Nobody can protect himself against it like he can against a BB :)

 

5.

As I said Mate.

Evidence Please.

I want to see YOU Playing a BB and Doing Huge Damage as Standard.

 

Not a Video from some YouTuber which Posted one of his Best Games

But a Video of you. Showing us that you can actually do this.

And that this is actually the Standard for BBs. And not just Something that happens in a Super Lucky Game.  :)

Because I am an BB Main. And I know what your Saying is Complete Bullcrab. Because BBs doing Big Damage Relies on Enemies doing very Stupid Mistakes and you being the First to Reach them to Punish them for it :)

And this Generally doesnt happen this often if your Playing beyond Tier 6 ;)

If it Happens once in Blue Moon it Results in an Awesome Game.

 

But thats the same as with CVs having such Games when lots of Enemy Ships just Sail Alone and thus can be Farmed with 2-3 Drops from each Squadron you Send.

And thus Doing Incredible Damage to them.

 

 

If you want to Compare Lucky Games then here.

Something that CVs could do after Rework which now they Gladly cant do anymore cause they Nerfed CVs as CVs Deserved 

 

 

 

6.

Sorry.

25.5k

I just Rounded up to 3x9k

But its only 8.5k

 

And Yes.

This can actually be Done. (As Shown below)

And its far more likely than Scoring 3 Citadels with a BB Salvo.

Because when you Fly at an BB from Straight in Front and he cant Turn away cause he would expose his Broadside.

Your Entire Aiming Circle Covers the Enemy Citadel. Pretty much Guaranteeing you to get a 3 out of 3 *gg*

 

 

3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Haku rockets are actually good, only 8 of them per plane, but they have 2nd highest damage per rocket after TiTs, surpassing Zao HE shell and they have 30mm pen, so T10 cruisers are viable targets.

TB hits much harder and you have 12 planes per squadron in two flavors - 2TB you should be familiar and 4TB, supposedly long range option, but extra gimmicky to use as intended (long range) or somewhat easy to evade when point blank due to slow 40kts speed and LONG arming distance of 1.2km

AP bombs improve in pen and alpha, so in practice they are anti cruiser tool mostly, with Yamato, Wurst and Kremlin being consistent targets, Montana is unpredictable and UK/FR are nope.avi when it comes to citadels from above.

 

For Haku its 3x8500=25500, and that includes all three bombs landing on point. It is possible, but just like devstrike from BB, many RNGesus blessings are involved

 

Yep.

 

And Yes.

Its only 25k

Sorry. Miscalculated that.

Not that its far enough off to make a Difference.

 

And pls Note.

1 Plane Lost.

No Squad Deletion. No Big Losses.

1 Plane was Lost.

 

[Panocek]

15 minutes ago, Yare_Yare said:

Yeah i tought so but unless you abuse the slingshot mechanic 70% of your squad will be dead after the first drop because the haku planes have such low health that even a Yamato destroys them.

Now look up what kind of dps Yamato have

 

13 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Changing regeneration rate would be hard?  That surprises me.

Reasoning was "to not make planes truly infinite"

 

4 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Yep.



 

And Yes.

Its only 25k

Sorry. Miscalculated that.

Not that its far enough off to make a Difference.

 

And pls Note.

1 Plane Lost.

No Squad Deletion. No Big Losses.

1 Plane was Lost.

Congrats, you've sunk overextended two tiers lower BB famous for lack of AA and being AP bomb magnet.

 

Now what happened on your way out through DFAA Cleve and JB?

[_KriegsSchaf_]

Hi,

 

I just want to share my opinion here.

 

With the AA rework the Saipan is unplayable especially at bottom tier.

With a predrop and 4 in a Squad i was able to attack Tier 10 Ships while loosing 1-2 Planes. Usually in the end of Tier 10 Matches i had no planes left anyway.

Now.. Its simply unplayable.. No planes left after half of match if you want to play serious and the enemy stacks up.

Even a Gearing or Harugumo shoots u down.

Sad especially for a Premium CV.

Saipan needs at least more planes.

Preferered MM is also an option.

 

Japanese CV arent effected that much because they dont care if they loose 4-5 Planes in a Squad - its normal.

Sad. Nothing else to say.

[Widar_Thule]

24 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

... snip ...

 

 

@Sunleader I would appreciate it if you could elaborate what exactly your MOTIVATION is for posting in this topic, to break that MOTIVATION down into smaller parts:

 

1.) What is your OPINION on the current state of carriers in WOWS (for example too strong, too weak, etc.)

 

2.) What is the GOAL that you want to ACHIEVE by posting in this topic? (for example want to convince the forum members to think X or Y)

 

You should be able to get that CORE message across in one sentence of about three lines, if you need more lines than that you either have no CORE message or have trouble getting that point across.

 

I look forward to your response.

 

[mariouus]

45 minutes ago, Yare_Yare said:

Im pretty sure even Musashis do more then 6k per Salvo at 15ish Km, let alone Legendary Moduled Yamatos. And yes you are correct with the alpha and sustained damage, thats why im trying to explained to this people why they should not look at raw damage numbers to compare if a CV does too much damage or not in order to decide  if they should cry for nerfs or not.  Most of them just look at stats and see CVs having double the amount and then think their BB should have the same number. A CV should always have higher DPM then any other ship because it lacks the alpha strike potential they have.

I did calculate it. Musashi damage per salvo is good, but not as good as I expected. Even I, whose aim is good, could achive 6.k per salvo, but not as reliably as I thought. Deffenetly not an average thing.

 

The fact is, average damage for CV should be more of a CA than BB.

[Widar_Thule]

StuntMan9630 doing some Flak math:

 

 

 

[Widar_Thule]

6 minutes ago, mariouus said:

 

The fact is, average damage for CV should be more of a CA than BB.

 

Why is that a fact? Where do you base that on?

[Culiacan_Mexico]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Reasoning was "to not make planes truly infinite"

Understandable, but it does seem that in 0.8.5 AA plane losses are "slightly excessive" "in many cases".

[Panocek]

Just now, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Understandable, but it does seem that in 0.8.5 AA plane losses are "slightly excessive" "in many cases".

Yep.

 

if Ibuki having nothing put into AA besides AAmod1 reduces 12 plane squadron from Kaga into one pass only simply by MLG alternating DFAA and Catapult, you know balans haz ben met camrade

 

Thats 8 AA oriented consumables. On "not AA ship"

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Now look up what kind of dps Yamato have

 

Reasoning was "to not make planes truly infinite"

 

Congrats, you've sunk overextended two tiers lower BB famous for lack of AA and being AP bomb magnet.

 

Now what happened on your way out through DFAA Cleve and JB?

 

I either Bombed the JB or the Cleveland but I dont think I hit anything worthwhile.

 

 

1 hour ago, Widar_Thule said:

 

@Sunleader I would appreciate it if you could elaborate what exactly your MOTIVATION is for posting in this topic, to break that MOTIVATION down into smaller parts:

 

1.) What is your OPINION on the current state of carriers in WOWS (for example too strong, too weak, etc.)

 

2.) What is the GOAL that you want to ACHIEVE by posting in this topic? (for example want to convince the forum members to think X or Y)

 

You should be able to get that CORE message across in one sentence of about three lines, if you need more lines than that you either have no CORE message or have trouble getting that point across.

 

I look forward to your response.

 

 

Small Backstory.

When the Rework of the CVs Hit.

I quit.

 

Then some Months Later.

Friends Started Playing the Game and since I had my old Account.

Asked me to Play as well.

Which I did.

 

I then Noticed.

Yep. CVs are Still Ridiculously Overpowered and Completely Ruin the Game for Everyone else with no Chance to do anything about it when they Attack you.

Hence I came to the Forum to Complain about this Rubbish.

 

Opened a Topic which a Mod Closed and Directed me to this Topic.

 

1.

Currently meaning after the 0.8.5 Update.

I think they are still a bit too Strong for most Part. (There are Exceptions now which Suffered alot from the Update and actually need to be Buffed a bit. But most are Still Clearly above any Surface Ship)

But they are far more Acceptable now than they were in 0.8.4

 

2.

I Honestly said dont Care very much about the Forum Users Opinion. I am mostly Posting in the Hope that Wargaming Keeps Track of this Topic and Changes Things to make this whole thing more Bearable.

My Ultimate Goal in that. Is to that WG Realizes that this Rework cannot Work and either Change the Mechanics Dramatically (New Rework or at least Partial new Rework) Or Rollback the Rework and go back to RTS. (Yes I know the Second one wont happen)

 

3.

Sorry. But I am rather Confident in myself.

So I wont have you Dictate how many Words or Sentences I have to use or am Allowed to use :)

I tend to Write long Posts because I want to Explain Things as much as Possible and in as much Detail as Possible. So that the People I talk to actually Understand what I want to Say and why I am saying it.

 

You Say if you use more than a few Sentences you dont have a Core Message.

But I would actually Claim the Opposite.

If you Express your Core Message in but a few Words or Sentences then your the one who has no Core Message or is not Sure of the Core Message.

Because you have to keep it in Broad Strokes and thus maintain alot of possible interpretions and meanings without really defining this Core Accurately  :)

 

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

Posting in the Hope that Wargaming Keeps Track of this Topic and Changes Things

 

And are you aware of purpose of first capital letter in a sentence?

[Mind_Expander]

 

 

I just joined the party here, to see what people were saying about the latest AA change.    Varying opinions, as might have been expected.    Personally, I'm in the 'this change feels like a kaiju-sized nerf to CVs and is not a great solution to the problem it was trying to address' camp.

However, I just saw the following:

 

7 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 the Automatic AA will Always only Allow 1 out of 2 Options.

1. Attacks get Through and the CV keeps doing Damage thus being Overpowered because Surface Ships are Helpless against it.

Or

2. Attacks dont get Through and the CV keeps having his Planes Killed thus becoming useless because he cant really pose a Bigger Threat to a Surface Ship.

 

 

Sunleader, you appear to be saying that any situation where a CV is able to get any attack through AA and inflict some damage means CVs are overpowered.   You seem to be saying that anything less than 100% dead planes anytime they try to make an attack a ship means CVs are overpowered.

I must have misunderstood you, surely?   You can't seriously think that CVs being able to make any damage at all means they are overpowered, right?