CV Rework Discussion

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, leeuwbart said:

Right, so please explain how to counter the Continuous AA damange which can't be dodged unless you use slingshot or become a overglorified private spottingplane for someone? the CV-Haters whined about not being able to counter the planes while the planes are manually controlled. the Continuous damage is ai controlled and is a set amount of damage over time which is now locked to the last plane of the attack wing and can't be dodged.

 

 

Well.

I for example Simply Spend more Time Choosing Targets.

So I can Reduce the Damage I take.

 

Instead of Just Immediately Attacking. I have Switched to First get a Good Position.

And then Attack while making sure that after the Attack I dont end up inside an AA Blob and lose all my Reamining Planes :)

 

If nothing else.

CVs still have way more Options to Counter Continues AA than Surface Ships had to Counter Aircraft before the Update.

 

 

16 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

But CV's were never OP anyway, in your opinion they might be, but simply they are not, all this arguing and bickering changes and means nothing, not one iota, WG don't care either way.

 

So a Class which is Better at absolutely Everything is not Overpowered ? :)

A Class which others cant do anything about when Facing it. is not Overpowered ??? :)

 

Sorry. But CVs are in Fact Overpowered.

 

 

14 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

For him they're OP cause they're simple to play and master. Comparing his cv stats to his surface ships stats.

 

Thats one Reason.

But there is also a few more.

 

1.

As you Said.

CVs are Far too easy to Play. They are Extremely Forgiving for Mistakes.

Any other Ship in this Game making Mistakes will usually be Killed without doing anything.

But CVs are not. They at best lose a Squadron.

Thus it is (or rather was) very easy to Play CV even with absolutely no Knowledge at all.

Which is Incredible Unfair when all other Classes have a Fairly High Learning Curve before they Start Performing well in a Match.

 

2.

CVs are OP because they can do Everything other Classes can do. And not just that. They can do Everything Better than other Classes.

DDs are Supposed to be Sneaky Attackers and Scouts.

But their Spotting does not even Compare to a CV. And especially the AP Bomber CVs can Pack Punches that were pretty much in Line with what a DD could Hope to Achieve when he Hurled a Torp Wave at a BB.

Cruisers are Supposed to have a High DPS with Good Accuracy and alot of Support Skills.

But lets Face it. CVs are will Deal more Damage especially over Time. They have better Accuracy especially for High Damage Hits. And in terms of Team Support a CV is Outclassing anything in this Game because if he wants to he can come to you wherever you are.

And BBs are Supposed to be the Big Damage Dealers with the Highest Survivability and the Highest Chance to Score a Kill due to their High Alpha Damage.

Except that here as well. CVs are actually just as Big Damage Dealer. They barely ever Die even in a Defeat. And have an Incredible high K/D Ratio. Because they not only have High Alpha Damage with Torp Strikes but also have a much Higher Chance at actually Scoring these High Damage Numbers without Endangering themselves at all.

And this is just not Balanced. Because it means that other Classes simply dont have any Meaning anymore.

 

3.

This is what also came up above already.

CVs can basicly Rule a Game. While at the same Time. They barely ever have to Risk their own Ship.

Any other Ship in this Game. If it wants to get Good Strikes into the Enemy. Has to Advance into Range of the Enemy and Risk taking massive Hits himself.

But a CV doesnt need to do that. He only Risks his Planes. He will nearly always Life to the End because he has little to no Risk of being even in Range of Enemies.

And again. This is just extremely Unfair to other Classes.

 

4.

And Finally.

This is more about the Mechanics itself than CVs being OP.

CVs are a very Frustrating Experience for other Ships.

If a CV Focused you before this Update.

You could Do pretty much nothing against that.

If a CV Attacked a Surface Ship this was was not a Fight. It was a Hunt. And the CV was the Hunter while the Surface Ship was the Game.

And this is Incredible Frustrating for the Surface Ship.

 

 

12 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Ah ok, so this AA rework may steady his gallup then, lol

 

Well. So Far.

I dont have much Trouble.

 

If I just Fool around like before the Update. I end up getting 40-60k Games.

But its also not like its Suddenly Super Hard to get 100k Games as long as I am not Uptiered.

And in T10 Games with the Graf Zeppelin I still usually manage to get around 70k Damage and alot of Exp for Spotting etc.

 

In my roughly 10 Games Yesterday I maintained 90k Average.

And for the 3 Games I had Today so far. Its also 90k Average.

 

So at least for now.

I dont seem to be Stopped.

I will of course Play Further Today.

I Finished most of the Event Stuff in the Battle Royale.

So I will Play my Normal Ships Including CV Today.

I also Finished the Grind for the Haku and Will get it Later to Start Grinding out the Better Planes.

 

10 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

It'll affect newer players more. His stats won't be affected too much if he knows what he is doing.

 

I guess I know what I am doing then *gg*

Albeit I did have several Bad Games in between where I made Mistakes and thus Failed Miserably due to Losing most of my Planes.

In Exchange. I did also have several Pretty Good Games tough. :)

 

I am also Interested in the Changes for 0.8.6 they are Testing now.

They are Closing down some Ways which Allowed to Avoid Damage from AA.

Which seems to be at least somewhat a Buff to AA instead of a Nerf.

 

So at least as of now. WG is apparently not Convinced that the Update Sufficed to bring CVs back down.

But then again. Its just happened. So this can still Change alot before the Next Update actually Hits.

 

9 minutes ago, Panocek said:

I guess Sunleader version of balans is when sum of damage done and spotting done is equal to other classes

 

When we're at at, I want some magic mechanic so I can cap with CVs in peace

 

Balance can Work in Several Ways.

 

All Abilities Equal is one of them. But wont work in WoWs.

In WoWs we have Asymetrical Balance.

 

CVs so far were The Best in almost Everything.

Or rather in Everything except Capping.

 

For me. If CVs get Nerfed Down enough. That they are the Best in their own Speciality.

But in Exchange like the other Classes have things where they arent Good in.

Then I am Happy with it.

 

For Example.

WG Could have Removed Spotting for CVs.

This way. CVs would have become Damage Dealers.

This would have meant that CVs could also Deal quite alot of Damage and Basicly take a Similar Spot to BBs without People Complaining too much about it.

But CVs could not Spot Ships so you would still need Cruisers and DDs.

 

Or WG Could have made Attacks much Less Accurate.

If CVs only had Average Damage of 40-50k per Match except in a few Rare Cases where despite the Bad Accuracy they Scored some Fat Hits.

Then CVs would be Primarily Support Class. Spotting for others Supporting Attacks.

But not being high Damage Dealers themselves.

 

Both Options are Fine.

 

Whats not Fine.

Is when CVs basicly can do Everything that the others can Do.

And on top of that can do it Better.

CVs so far were better Damage Dealers than BBs and better Spotters than DD while also being better Supporters than Cruisers.

And Sorry. But thats not Acceptable.

 

If CVs can do everything the other Classes can Do. And on Top can do it Better.

Why would anyone Play a Different Class anymore ? :)

 

 

59 minutes ago, Panocek said:

I guess Sunleader version of balans is when sum of damage done and spotting done is equal to other classes

 

When we're at at, I want some magic mechanic so I can cap with CVs in peace

 

Then I have some Advice for you.

When you Attack. Make sure that you Attack from a Direction where after the Attack. You can Escape into a Free Area.

And then only Press F after you have left the Anti Air Range.

 

Honestly Said this should actually be Self Explaining.

Any WarThunder Player knows.

That Trying to Climb with an Aircraft while your under Fire from AA Slows down your Aircraft and makes you an Far Easier Target.

 

Thus you First Push the Pedal to the Metal and Leave the Deathzone before you tell your Aircraft to Start Climbing and Return to the CV.

This way All Planes you left the AA Area with will make it Home.

[Sunleader]

16 minutes ago, Bainsmit_steel said:

Half squadron is ok in 12-15 minutes after the start but not 5-8 :)...

 

Oh ?

And why not ?

5-8 Minutes after a Battle Starts many Surface Ships dont even Exist anymore.

And many more are on 30% HP :)

Most Ships also have lost at least 50% of their AA and Secondary Turrets.

 

So why Should CVs be Guaranteed to still be Fielding Full Squads ????

 

14 minutes ago, Panocek said:

@MrConway regarding recent devblog article, are devs aware half, if not more casualties are returning planes instead ones with payload?

 

 

Except you're down to half squadron if you lose first one. CVs with few exceptions have only half strength squadron in reserve. And after AA change, its not hard to lose planes even if you do everything right as CV.

 

I don't see ship losing guns simply by firing them at the red ones

 

As I said.

This is only if you Press F in the Middle of the Enemy AA Zone.

 

Maybe.

WG is Simply trying to Teach you.

 

That the F Button is not Supposed to be Used to Safe your Planes after you made a Bad Decision and Rammed them into the Middle of an Fat AA Blob ?

Maybe WG Wants the F Button to be only there for Recalling your Squad after you have actually Completed the Attack and Retreated the Planes to a Safe Area for them to Climb up and Return :)

 

 

Dont Forget.

The F-Button Immunity was Removed. Exactly because Players used the F Button to basicly Yolo into a Full AA Blob and then Recall their Planes to Safety out of an Situation where they Themselves would never have gotten out of.

 

And so WG Removed this Immunity and actually made it so.

That Boosting Past an AA Area takes LESS Damage for the Squadron.

Than to Press F while your still inside AA Range :)

 

 

You should know.

One of the Get go Methods for Game Designers to Prevent behavior that they dont want Players to have.

Is to make that Behavior more Damaging to them than the Behavior that the Game Designers wants you to have.

 

 

Been Testing that with my TBs today as well.

When I Torp an Enemy Ship. And then Boost out of AA Range BEFORE I press F.

I usually lose maybe 1 or 2 Planes Depending on what AA the Ship had.

If I just Drop the Load and then Press F right above the Ship.

I will often Lose the entire Remaining Squadron which is 4-5 Planes.

 

The Heal is Great for this as well by the way.

Because when you Heal right before or right after the Drop.
You get a few Seconds of Immunity in which you can Boost out of the AA Range.

And when you Fly out of the AA Yourself You can also Evade the Black Smokes which often Cost Planes from Retreating Squadrons.

[Panocek]

6 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Then I have some Advice for you.

When you Attack. Make sure that you Attack from a Direction where after the Attack. You can Escape into a Free Area.

And then only Press F after you have left the Anti Air Range.

Breaking news: I've been doing that since WG fixed F key in what was it, 0.8.1?

 

Since 0.8.5 I have odd feeling boosted return would yield less losses than manually GTFOing and then recalling. Not mentioning shorter plane return.

 

 

[leeuwbart]

16 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Well.

I for example Simply Spend more Time Choosing Targets.

So I can Reduce the Damage I take.

 

Instead of Just Immediately Attacking. I have Switched to First get a Good Position.

And then Attack while making sure that after the Attack I dont end up inside an AA Blob and lose all my Reamining Planes :)

 

If nothing else.

CVs still have way more Options to Counter Continues AA than Surface Ships had to Counter Aircraft before the Update.

 

Your answer does not answer the question as even tho you can choose your targets in a manner of of recieving less damage that way based on the AA of the target being weaker, the values of the damage are locked for the ship as it is automated and non counterable on it's own. So to simplify if the ship does 2 damage per second it will keep doing 2 damage per seconds with no counter. Thus there is no way to reduce the damage taken as 2 damage remains 2 damage on it's own other then slingshotting.

[thiextar]

2 minutes ago, leeuwbart said:

 

Your answer does not answer the question as even tho you can choose your targets in a manner of of recieving less damage that way based on the AA of the target being weaker, the values of the damage are locked for the ship as it is automated and non counterable on it's own. so toe simplify if the ship does 2 damage per second it will keep doing 2 damage per seconds with no counter.The only way to counter this damage in some way is by slingshotting.

A cv player complaining about a lack of counters... How ironic

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, thiextar said:

A cv player complaining about a lack of counters... How ironic

Its not like its been stated quite a number of times CV REEEwork is broken on design level

[leeuwbart]

3 minutes ago, thiextar said:

A cv player complaining about a lack of counters... How ironic

just using the same arguments the cv haters kept spouting

[Bainsmit_steel]

14 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Oh ?

And why not ?

5-8 Minutes after a Battle Starts many Surface Ships dont even Exist anymore.

And many more are on 30% HP :)

Most Ships also have lost at least 50% of their AA and Secondary Turrets.

 

So why Should CVs be Guaranteed to still be Fielding Full Squads ????

 

If you play half competent you should not die in first 5-10 minutes...so given that cv should feel the same (for cv no plane no game)...and there are a game that all die (bbs,dds,Cas...) in first five minutes is that a base line for all?

 

Not to mention that in 80% percent of time all ships have full strike force until the end...why would be then bad that cv has 30-50% strike force toward the end... 15 minutes are end...

 

Btw I can loose all my planes in 1-3 minutes but that also should not be base line for deciding a thing as I can be a a bad player or an troll...

[Woof_for_Me]

Vor 32 Minuten, quickr sagte:

So it's ok for me to lose most/all AA by the end of the game cos of the HE spam but it's not ok for a CV to fly half squadrons?

 

 

Hello.

 

What i think is not okay is losing alot of planes to a single ship.

To kill a healthy same tier BB with heals availible i need at least five or more minutes and with the current AA i lose nearly half my planes for this one BB if not more when it uses fighter planes.

Do you think it would be okay if you could kill only 1 and half a ship in your BB and then be out of ammunition the rest of the game?

 

Obviously this "five minutes" do not apply to every BB, some are easier to kill and it depends on the BB skipper.

 

Now let's talk about the damage i would do. Against a t8 BB woth 70k hp, if i kill it and it uses heals i do around 130k or more damage.

That is probably alot but in the context of impact on the match it's nothing at all.

Because while i strike said BB it could still kill one or maybe two of my teammates.

 

These are obviously just thoughts. I think it works like this however correct me if i'm wrong.

[thiextar]

1 minute ago, Rose_Dikinson said:

Hello.

 

What i think is not okay is losing alot of planes to a single ship.

To kill a healthy same tier BB with heals availible i need at least five or more minutes and with the current AA i lose nearly half my planes for this one BB if not more when it uses fighter planes.

Do you think it would be okay if you could kill only 1 and half a ship in your BB and then be out of ammunition the rest of the game?

 

Obviously this "five minutes" do not apply to every BB, some are easier to kill and it depends on the BB skipper.

 

Now let's talk about the damage i would do. Against a t8 BB woth 70k hp, if i kill it and it uses heals i do around 130k or more damage.

That is probably alot but in the context of impact on the match it's nothing at all.

Because while i strike said BB it could still kill one or maybe two of my teammates.

 

These are obviously just thoughts. I think it works like this however correct me if i'm wrong.

what, would you rather be able to kill a full health bb WITHOUT noticable plane losses? where is the balance in that? That bb would certainly not have a fun game.

[Cambera_1]

4 minutes ago, thiextar said:

what, would you rather be able to kill a full health bb WITHOUT noticable plane losses? where is the balance in that? That bb would certainly not have a fun game.

So you would be happy if your magazine slaves needed 10 minutes to get the next full salvo ready after you had sunk a full health battleship?

[Woof_for_Me]

Vor 1 Minute, thiextar sagte:

what, would you rather be able to kill a full health bb WITHOUT noticable plane losses? where is the balance in that? That bb would certainly not have a fun game.

Hello, thank you .

 

No obviously the BB should be able to defend itself.

But you have to agree that there has to then be another solution to this.

Even if i spread my strikes inbetween different targets, let's say different BBs and every time i strike one of them for let's say 10k - 20k. I will lose enough planes to become very ineffective in the second half of the game due to the amount of planes i lost.

The regain is to slow to keep up.

Now each of those BBs heals half the damage i have done to them making it effectively impactless overall. Yes i did 80k damage possibly but 40k of it got healed.

Now i have dealt 10k of effective damage spread across 4 BBs who each has around 60k - 70k health.

 

Now how does this compare to let's say my Georgia with which i can do around 10k damage every 26 seconds if i have firing opportunities? At the same time my position as a fast Battleship can halt the enemy on the flank i reside in.

My planes can't really create a similiar effect

 

I can get damaged back and shot at but it's not really that hard to simply disengage and still be a presence the enemy has to account for the whole game long if i don't completely mess up.

I basically dictate how the enemy approaches me in a BB while in my CV i can only hope to "scare" them and if it doesn't work then i have done compareably nothing much.

 

 

 

[quickr]

1 minute ago, Rose_Dikinson said:

What i think is not okay is losing alot of planes to a single ship. 

Why not if that ship is dedicated AA platform?

 

2 minutes ago, Rose_Dikinson said:

Do you think it would be okay if you could kill only 1 and half a ship in your BB and then be out of ammunition the rest of the game?

If i contributed in other ways, i don't have to have any kills. CVs contribute in more ways than just dmg farming. And you will never be out of planes, just weaken. Just like some other ship classes loss their guns or torpedo tubes.

You took damaging and sinking BB as an example:

An average DD player probably need a couple of torpedo salvos to sink it. How much time does that requires?

An average cruiser player will probably lose half his HP trying to dmg/sink a BB while kitting away.

Another BB would probably get to close while "noseing in" and will result in raming.

(of course those are just example, not every BB vs BB fight ends in raming)

 

Every ship class pays something, sacrifices something, every ship class gets punished for it's mistakes, except CVs. Well, untill now.

You wanna drop that Des moins, sure, drop it, but you will pay for it. You crying "but Cv can't counter AA specced ship" guess what, no other ship could counter CV until 085. join the [edited]club!

 

4 minutes ago, Rose_Dikinson said:

These are obviously just thoughts. I think it works like this however correct me if i'm wrong.

I'm yet to find a CV player that doesn't focus or talk only about dmg done. It's not just dmg done, there is so much more to CVs.

 

[Sunleader]

20 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Breaking news: I've been doing that since WG fixed F key in what was it, 0.8.1?

 

Since 0.8.5 I have odd feeling boosted return would yield less losses than manually GTFOing and then recalling. Not mentioning shorter plane return.

 

 

 

That Feeling is wrong then :)

 

 

15 minutes ago, leeuwbart said:

 

Your answer does not answer the question as even tho you can choose your targets in a manner of of recieving less damage that way based on the AA of the target being weaker, the values of the damage are locked for the ship as it is automated and non counterable on it's own. So to simplify if the ship does 2 damage per second it will keep doing 2 damage per seconds with no counter. Thus there is no way to reduce the damage taken as 2 damage remains 2 damage on it's own other then slingshotting.

 

Well Mate.

As the CV Crowd always said.

Damage cant be Prevented in this Game *gg*

 

Maybe now at least you have an Idea how Frustrating it is. When your Attacked by Something that you cant Defend against and which you have no Counter for.

 

Albeit its not really True.

If you want to Counter Continues AA.

I suggest using your Rocket Planes more.

Because AA Guns can be Destroyed. And they are pretty Flimsy.

 

Very often after just 1 or 2 Exchanges with Enemy Ships. I am down to like 20-30% of my AA Power.

Because all my AA Guns got Destroyed.

 

Also. Actually I am using Graf Zeppelin.

So I dont Slingshot.

And I am still able to Manage my Losses and Attack.

So its obviously not that Hard :)

 

13 minutes ago, thiextar said:

A cv player complaining about a lack of counters... How ironic

 

Yep.

I am thinking the same.

 

11 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Its not like its been stated quite a number of times CV REEEwork is broken on design level

 

Yes.

And its not like the CV Players have Constantly Dismissed this and Repeated how Fun the Rework is and how the Rework is Fine and at best only needs some Small Tweaks. *gg*

 

9 minutes ago, leeuwbart said:

just using the same arguments the cv haters kept spouting

 

Well. Then dont Complain if you get the same "Get Good" and "L2P" and "Adapt" etc Answers that the CV Apologists gave all the time :)

 

 

7 minutes ago, Bainsmit_steel said:

If you play half competent you should not die in first 5-10 minutes...so given that cv should feel the same (for cv no plane no game)...and there are a game that all die (bbs,dds,Cas...) in first five minutes is that a base line for all?

 

Not to mention that in 80% percent of time all ships have full strike force until the end...why would be then bad that cv has 30-50% strike force toward the end... 15 minutes are end...

 

Btw I can loose all my planes in 1-3 minutes but that also should not be base line for deciding a thing as I can be a a bad player or an troll...

 

Playing Half Competent with my CV.

And still have Full Squadrons even 10-15 Minutes into the Match.

 

And actually thats Wrong.

For Most Ships their Strike Force Depends on their HP.

Because if they dont have HP left to Take the Return Fire. They cant really use their Full Strike Force.

At least not unless they want to be Deleted from the Game by doing it.

 

And I can Die with my Ship in 2 Minutes. And thats not the Base line Obviously.

But Sorry. If Nobody Dies in the first 5-8 Minutes of a Match. Then something is quite wrong lol.

 

[80yearoldpotato]

2 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

you know GZ can't dot well. Right? his flood chance is really bad on torps. Who has no idea what he is talking about here? 

His wording was CV in general and as i said there is a different playstyle with different carriers and actually GZ has the highest flood chance. So unless you are actually going for Fire from rockets and floods from torps then you are doing something wrong. 

 

dont be a smart [edited]Macarthur92 i know what im talking about.

 

 

@Sunleader

 

2.

And Mate no Offense. But BARELY any Damage from CVs is from Dots.

In case you didnt notice that. My Screenshots barely Contained any Flooding or Fires....

In that Video of Notser he Deals 80k Damage in a T10 Game and has pretty much no Dots at all.

 

 

read the topic... im reading this just fine and you continue to spew false info around towards CVs, ah yes i can see your 100 games in GZ. must have achieved the knowledge to school others on dot dmg and what kind. 

 

All im saying is that you spread false info to the ones that ask and might not have clue.. thats why they ask. but i can clearly see from your mile long posts that you keep telling people their bad. 

So im not attacking you, but im TELLING you. stop being such a SJW

[leeuwbart]

Just now, Sunleader said:

Well. Then dont Complain if you get the same "Get Good" and "L2P" and "Adapt" etc Answers that the CV Apologists gave all the time :)

Except the difference being that the planes are manually controlled and thus can make mistakes while the Continuous AA is ai controlled with no calculated mistakes, just a steady stream of damage. 

[Woof_for_Me]

Vor 1 Minute, quickr sagte:

I'm yet to find a CV player that doesn't focus or talk only about dmg done. It's not just dmg done, there is so much more to CVs.

  

Hello and thank you for your answer.

 

I believe that the other things a CV does like for example spotting is to inconsistent for a team to take advantage of it. Since i want to strike fast and effectively i can't really just fly in circles and hope for my team to do the job.

I can be anywhere on the map but if half the map is logically a no fly zone i'm heavily restricted in strike opportunities.

I can see why it might be annoying for some of the enemy team to be spotted as a sideeffect of me striking a nearby target but it's not like i'm omnipresent in that place because of the reasons i listed. Mainly the plane losses i will suffer.

[thiextar]

1 minute ago, leeuwbart said:

Except the difference being that the planes are manually controlled and thus can make mistakes while the Continuous AA is ai controlled with no calculated mistakes, just a steady stream of damage. 

Congratulations, you found the reason why the cv rework is broken by concept and cant be fixed by any balancing. Now you just need to teach this to wargaming ^^

[80yearoldpotato]

46 minutes ago, asalonen said:

It depends on what CV you play. I have had several games with Kaga and Enterprise with more than 200k alpha. With Kaga it's dumping 30 to 40 torps into BB's, with Enterprise a lot less but then additional 50 to 100k from AP bombs. 

In general, fire and flooding damage is no more than 10 % of the total for me. Many CV's don't rely on it at all.

as i stated, clearly different playstyles with Haku/midway but despite the one over the other is easier to get fires or floods with.. in order to inflict more dmg towards ships, floods and fires do contribute alot.

And as we are both stating that CVs with ap bombers do need another playstyle to achieve this. 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

12 minutes ago, Rose_Dikinson said:

Hello and thank you for your answer.

 

I believe that the other things a CV does like for example spotting is to inconsistent for a team to take advantage of it. Since i want to strike fast and effectively i can't really just fly in circles and hope for my team to do the job.

I can be anywhere on the map but if half the map is logically a no fly zone i'm heavily restricted in strike opportunities.

I can see why it might be annoying for some of the enemy team to be spotted as a sideeffect of me striking a nearby target but it's not like i'm omnipresent in that place because of the reasons i listed. Mainly the plane losses i will suffer.

The spotting damage stats of CV's tell a whole different story (2x DD spotting damage and up). Spotting damage done is huge for CV's because the 'accidental' spotting gives the rest of your team plenty of targets to shoot at all the time, since CV airtime is almost 100%. So no, because of 'reasons'.

[HansiSolo]

13 minutes ago, thiextar said:

Congratulations, you found the reason why the cv rework is broken by concept and cant be fixed by any balancing. Now you just need to teach this to wargaming ^^

That's not the reason. The constant spotting is the reason.

 

AI controlled AA is not a problem, the current AA is just too weak.

I don't understand why people feel the urge for manual AA control. There are already a lot of actions per minute you need to do to play properly. So how will you on top also take care of AA?

 

Only BB onlys might have such an idea but any DD player knows it's impossible to manage AA aiming as well....

[Woof_for_Me]

Vor 2 Minuten, Europizza sagte:

The spotting damage stats of CV's tell a whole different story (2x DD spotting damage and up). Spotting damage done is huge for CV's because the 'accidental' spotting gives the rest of your team plenty of targets to shoot at all the time, since CV airtime is almost 100%. So no, because of 'reasons'.

So would it help the situation if the spotting of the CV is removed?

Can the changes done to AA be reverted then?

[arcticstorm123]

Everyone who plays this game wants "glorious games" with high scores and the ability to dominate the game.

 

BB gets a good score or a kraken?, fine! send congratulations, same for DD or a CL.

 

But if a Cv does anywhere near the same (pretty much an impossibility since CV rework )?, omfg out come the pitch forks and torches!!!

 

I get some people have no interest in a particular class, and never want to play it, but other players do, and the incentive to play is removed if you are reduced to just being a source of damage, or the even more ridiculous comments I've seen about CV's becoming "support ships" dropping sonar buoys or repairing other ships...who the hell would want to play that?

 

We need to make the game fun for all classes, and most importantly at all tiers, Wargaming are making these changes just looking at tier X unicums, or what CC's like Notser says, with no thought as to how they affect tier IV, VI and even tier VIII CV players especially when up-tiered.

 

CV's do have a place, in particular for discouraging camping and island/border hugging, personally I couldn't care less about spotting, but give the CV's something to make the game enjoyable, because hopefully that's why we all play this game, to have fun.

 

(Re-post from "The return of the DD’s. Well, the bad ones anyway" as it's more relevant here)

[Sunleader]

7 minutes ago, Cambera_1 said:

So you would be happy if your magazine slaves needed 10 minutes to get the next full salvo ready after you had sunk a full health battleship?

 

Well Mate.

If we Exclude Detonation.

Which CVs can Cause as well.

 

The Only Ships Capable of just Killing an Full Health Enemy BB in a Single Strike would be a DD.

 

And a DD would not need to worry about his Reload.

Because the only way he gets close enough to get such an Close Torpedo Spread that he can actually Sink a Full Health BB in one Salvo.

Is by Yoloing at the BB which he will usually Pay for with his Life.

 

5 minutes ago, leeuwbart said:

Except the difference being that the planes are manually controlled and thus can make mistakes while the Continuous AA is ai controlled with no calculated mistakes, just a steady stream of damage. 

 

Oh ?

I tought

Your Ship is still Manually Controlled. :)

And so is the AA Sector.

You can Maneuver with the Ship to make it harder to reach and increase the Time Aircraft Spend in AA so it kills them.

Etc etc.

 

Its you guys who Kept Arguing that Ships actually could Defend themselves against Aircraft if they just learned how to Play Properly.

And now your Suddenly saying that Surface Ships dont need to do anything for Planes to be Deleted ? :)

 

Way to Contradict yourself.

 

9 minutes ago, UltraViking said:

His wording was CV in general and as i said there is a different playstyle with different carriers and actually GZ has the highest flood chance. So unless you are actually going for Fire from rockets and floods from torps then you are doing something wrong. 

 

dont be a smart [edited]Macarthur92 i know what im talking about.

 

 

@Sunleader

 

2.

And Mate no Offense. But BARELY any Damage from CVs is from Dots.

In case you didnt notice that. My Screenshots barely Contained any Flooding or Fires....

In that Video of Notser he Deals 80k Damage in a T10 Game and has pretty much no Dots at all.

 

 

read the topic... im reading this just fine and you continue to spew false info around towards CVs, ah yes i can see your 100 games in GZ. must have achieved the knowledge to school others on dot dmg and what kind. 

 

All im saying is that you spread false info to the ones that ask and might not have clue.. thats why they ask. but i can clearly see from your mile long posts that you keep telling people their bad. 

So im not attacking you, but im TELLING you. stop being such a SJW

 

1.

Sure.

My Wording was Absolutely General while Pointing to a Screenshot of my Graf Zeppelin lol.

 

2.

I am not so sure that you know what your Talking about.

You seem to have a Rather Warped Idea of things.

And You are Extremely Biased when I check your Stats.

Stat Shaming is not Allowed tough.

So everyone has to Check for Himself with how many Ships you yourself Actually Reached the 300k Damage Game that you demanded me to do in a T8 CV: :)

 

3.

Sure. I am Spreading False Info by Demonstrating that an Average Potato like me can Be the King of the Match in a T8 CV ?

I cant help it if your not Reading the Topic and thus dont get the Context of the Conversation lol.

I wrote an Answer to another Post. 

I cant very well just Lay out the entire Position of the last 200 Pages just so that someone will immediately understand my Post on Page 200+ lol

 

How about YOU Stop being an SJW lol

 

4.

Ok.

NO.

Seriously NO.

 

A.

German Rockets have a High Fire Chance that is True.

But you also only get 2x4 Rockets instead of 3x6 on the Shokaku for example.

Instead of 18 Rockets which Deal 2200 Alpha Damage and have a Fire Chance of about 10%

The GZ has only 8 Rockets which Deal 4400 Alpha Damage and have a Fire Chance of about 25%

So the End Result is not really Higher.

 

B

For Torpedoes I got no Idea where to look for it.

According to the Wargaming Wiki.

Graf Zeppelin has the Lowest Flood Chance of all Torpedoes.

This might be Outdated.

But then you could Provide Accurate Stats instead of just Bluffing around.

 

C.

GZ has AP Bombers. So it only has 1 Squad for Fires and 1 Squad for Flooding.

Making it rather hard to do what US CVs usually Do.

And just Spam Fires at you after you already used Damage Control.

 

 

Sorry.

But You got no Idea what your Talking about.

Your Completely and Utterly Biased to the US CVs.

 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

2 hours ago, NoobySkooby said:

But CV's were never OP anyway...

Stats indicated many were OP.