CV Rework Discussion

[1MajorKoenig]

1 minute ago, MacArthur92 said:

yes though I felt the Scharn or even Irian were melting my planes. I did pre dropping here as well.

 

Urgh 

[KillStealBoss]

19 minutes ago, UltraViking said:

Dude you need to stop spewing crap out there and stop talking about stuff you dont know. 

 In a video with "Notser" ....

Notser is a mediocre CV player so if he didnt get any dots on during the match its all on him.

 

Dots is a huge part of the CV dmg ? you want me to post screenshots of 300k games that involves so many fires and floods that you can make rivers and barbq parties out of it?

there are clearly different playstyles for different cvs Haku/midway as an example.

 

instead of watching Notser and learning from his gameplay id rather just look at a couple of El2azers videoes of big E and learn. or look at some of the old Gaishu videos. the playstyle is very much still relevant.

you know GZ can't dot well. Right? his flood chance is really bad on torps. Who has no idea what he is talking about here? 

[mariouus]

3 hours ago, Sanepidi said:

So i CV mange to do 90 k DMG average, when i am able to do over 120k on other ships is fine in your opinion?

130k Yamato

120k Stalin and cv now only around 90.

Yes. CV, because of it other propeties like spoting capability, ability do quickly change flank, cap contesting, should never do as mutch damage as ships what lack those strenghts.

 

And as far as I can see, you did 105k of damage after the rework.

 

[Kathapalt]

1 hour ago, Tirande said:

AA is weak and the Atlanta-class can't shoot down planes anymore right? :D I should add, no defensive fire was used in the purging of these planes, nor did either CV try to strike me, they lost all their planes flying anywhere within my AA range. I don't see this as healthy balance; looking at the number of planes shot down here. Before the anti-CV zasshu crowd starts whining; names are redacted as to comply to forum rules, as you can see the CVs weren't that bad scoring above most of their surface peasants. AA was overtuned and now it's just even more overtuned and dumb..... seeing this makes me even less interested in Ark Royal; if Enterprise + Kaga can't get through a T7 CL's AA then I dread to see what a T6 equivalent of Kaga will do with ultra slow planes (yay Swordfish TBs finally... ffs WG took you long enough.) against T8 AA.

"sarcasm on" I can only give the same kind of advice's Pro-Cv crowd gave to me:

-  This is not a solo game learn to play as a team

-  hug "He" boats and let them de-aa the enemy ships before you attack

-  l2p

-  use counter play to counter AA -specked ships

-  I have done this with my t8 cv against t10  full aa specked Minotaur i lost no planes ( I don´t have any proof, but some one in youtube might have video( i dont have t8 cv, but if i had i would do this esily)).

"sarcasm off"

 

Serious note, this look better, lots of plane kills= meaning ships could defend them selfs, cv:s on good xp spot meaning they could do good.

Is it fun to play cv now? i dont know ,but dont really care as a surface pleb=)

 

[leeuwbart]

4 minutes ago, Kathapalt said:

"sarcasm on" I can only give the same kind of advice's Pro-Cv crowd gave to me:

-  This is not a solo game learn to play as a team

-  hug "He" boats and let them de-aa the enemy ships before you attack

-  l2p

-  use counter play to counter AA -specked ships

-  I have done this with my t8 cv against t10  full aa specked Minotaur i lost no planes ( I don´t have any proof, but some one in youtube might have video( i dont have t8 cv, but if i had i would do this esily)).

"sarcasm off"

 

Serious note, this look better, lots of plane kills= meaning ships could defend them selfs, cv:s on good xp spot meaning they could do good.

Is it fun to play cv now? i dont know ,but dont really care as a surface pleb=)

 

Right, so please explain how to counter the Continuous AA damange which can't be dodged unless you use slingshot or become a overglorified private spottingplane for someone? the CV-Haters whined about not being able to counter the planes while the planes are manually controlled. the Continuous damage is ai controlled and is a set amount of damage over time which is now locked to the last plane of the attack wing and can't be dodged.

 

[Kathapalt]

1 minute ago, leeuwbart said:

Right, so please explain how to counter the Continuous AA damange which can't be dodged unless you use slingshot or become a overglorified private spottingplane for someone? the CV-Haters whined about not being able to counter the planes while the planes are manually controlled. the Continuous damage is ai controlled and is a set amount of damage over time which is now locked to the last plane of the attack wing and can't be dodged.

 

Same way as to counter continuous cv attacks pre-aa boost obviously. 

[Sanepidi]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

The Hotfixes before did pretty much nothing.

And that was Reflected in the massive Toxicity of the Community which grew ever more tired of this.

CVs being a Curse and Bane of the entire Game causing People to Quit the Game entirely because when a CV was in a Match.

The Match was Incredible Frustrating for all the Non CV Players.

Oh they were pretty good hotfixes.

F escape was removed

Trops DMG nerf

Flooding nerf

Bombers nerf

Aiming nerf for Haku

Rockets nerf

spoting nerf

52 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

n fact she got a pretty big buff both directly via boost adjustment and in relative terms as she simply doesn't care about losses, solidifying her position as the best CV in the game.

Yes Enterprise is even better than t10

 

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

2.

I can Explain that rather easily for you.

For the last 6 Months the Small Step Balancing basicly did nothing to Alleviate the Complaints of the Community of which over 70% clearly said that the Rework is a Complete Failure and that CVs Completely Destroy the Game now.

People have in Fact Started Leaving the Game over this. So WG likely Decided that they Should make a Radical Change to get closer to an Acceptable Position.

CV Rework is crap. You are absolutly right. Old CV's were better.

1. Less player played them

2. Fighters could provide some real support

3. Limited planes

4. Old random AA was fine

5. Cruisiers like Des were almost no AA zone. You can make strike but you had to accept high losses.

 

6. And most important! After carrying strike with all squads, they had to:

1) get them first  BACK,

2)land them on CV!

3) Rearm

4) relaunch

5) get back to target.....

It took alot of time. You could easliy use repairs get back to your team or prepare yourself fot next wave.

 

35 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

yes though I felt the Scharn or even Irian were melting my planes. I did pre dropping here as well.

I think the best target right now are DD's with weak AA. Let's wait for new Prem DD! IX with that crazy AA and no torps:-)

Alot of ship with high DMG values are melting planes pretty quick

[Sanepidi]

25 minutes ago, mariouus said:

And as far as I can see, you did 105k of damage after the rework.

Because Lion let me make 40k flooding dmg... He decided to ignore floodings and get more HP from repair. Normally BB use repair.

Lucky strike with 2x12 squads one from each torps that hited him made one flooding.

10 minutes ago, Kathapalt said:

Same way as to counter continuous cv attacks pre-aa boost obviously. 

which was randomly splited on whole squad. So your damage landed on one of 12 planes instead focus on the last one

[Bainsmit_steel]

AS someone who plays CVs a lot here are my opinion:

 

1. Cvs..where on the strong side mainly because of unbalanced AA.

2. This was a try to balance things but I think that it is not good and funny enough not because I loose more planes but  because I loose more planes when I can not do a thing i.e when they return to CV. Squad then despite size melt in few seconds...even when only one ship is there with mediocre AA.

3. There is a way to fly from AA zone and then try to return but result is almost the same as said in point 2.

4. Solution as I see it to tone down a bit AA or to decrease plane re spawn time or to give a little more returning immunity when F is pressed  (that I think it is the most prudent). 

5. Low plane or slow plane CVs should be buffed in some way (t8 are at bad spot apart maybe Enterprise).

6. GZ feel a bit more consistant but AP bombs are still pretty bad...they are mainly a miss weapon...if there is only two bombs like at GZ two scenarios are possible either they are like now but do more damage or they do less damage but they are much more precise....in today's form they are at bets meh.. and more frustration tool  then relay a fun thing like all things in any game should be. On the bright side torepdoes are now fine.

7. If AA is buffed further as predicted I think that majority of CV players will loose all its planes in the first 8 minutes of the game thus making CVs unpliable.

8. I am at no means super player wr with CVs are somewhere around 55 % and total is 50% but I think that something must be done as in this state or even in future even more nerfed state CVs are no fun to anyone....damage wise I can still do around 100k...but damage is not all..

9. Bottom line if CVs can not be brought to order they should relay be scraped then in total... in this game are much hate for Cvs but...game would be so boring without it and game play would be so stale and at least for me boring...(island HE spammers, sniper bbs, invisible dds etc...)..

 

Those are my two cents... take care :)...

 

 

[Sunleader]

3 minutes ago, Sanepidi said:

Oh they were pretty good hotfixes.

F escape was removed

Trops DMG nerf

Flooding nerf

Bombers nerf

Aiming nerf for Haku

Rockets nerf

spoting nerf

Yes Enterprise is even better than t10

 

CV Rework is crap. You are absolutly right. Old CV's were better.

1. Less player played them

2. Fighters could provide some real support

3. Limited planes

4. Old random AA was fine

5. Cruisiers like Des were almost no AA zone. You can make strike but you had to accept high losses.

 

6. And most important! After carrying strike with all squads, they had to:

1) get them first  BACK,

2)land them on CV!

3) Rearm

4) relaunch

5) get back to target.....

It took alot of time. You could easliy use repairs get back to your team or prepare yourself fot next wave.

 

I think the best target right now are DD's with weak AA. Let's wait for new Prem DD! IX with that crazy AA and no torps:-)

Alot of ship with high DMG values are melting planes pretty quick

 

1.

See Mate.

I dont think so at all.

 

The Early Damage Nerfs were clearly Good.

If they had not Done then we would likely Sit at an Average Damage of like 200k for CVs right now.

Because CVs basicly went ahead getting 500k Games.

 

But the thing is. This did not nowhere near enough to Fix the problem.

If we had Continued down this Road. CVs would have Remained Ridiculously Overpowered for another 6-8 Months before we had come anywhere close to even the levels we got now.

And even now I do consider CVs to be very Strong.

 

BUT After the Update.

I dont Consider them Ridiculously Overpowered anymore.

Because an Average Potato Like me. No Longer can just go out and do a 200k Damage Match in a T8 CV in T10 just to Prove to others that CVs are Overpowered.

Now I really need to Pay Attention. Because if I do Silly Stuff like I did before the Update. And just Keep Bombing that Blob of 7 Ships. I end up Deplaned and only do like 40k Damage in a Match.

 

And this was urgently Needed.

 

 

2.

I actually dont think DDs are good Targets.

I actually Like to Bomb BBs more than Ever.

But Generally I will Bomb whatever puts itself in a Bad Position.

Including even a Minotaur which I Punished with a Double Citadel Yesterday when it Decided to just Park behind that Island.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

2 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

1.

The Hotfixes before did pretty much nothing.

And that was Reflected in the massive Toxicity of the Community which grew ever more tired of this.

CVs being a Curse and Bane of the entire Game causing People to Quit the Game entirely because when a CV was in a Match.

The Match was Incredible Frustrating for all the Non CV Players.

 

2.

I can Explain that rather easily for you.

For the last 6 Months the Small Step Balancing basicly did nothing to Alleviate the Complaints of the Community of which over 70% clearly said that the Rework is a Complete Failure and that CVs Completely Destroy the Game now.

People have in Fact Started Leaving the Game over this. So WG likely Decided that they Should make a Radical Change to get closer to an Acceptable Position.

 

3.

Mate no Offense. But WG Also Sells other Premium Ships at high Prices.

And these were Completely Destroyed by CVs being so Overpowered.

What about these People ?

You think they found it Cool that they Bought a T8-T9 Premium Ship which they possibly even worked for like Crazy.

And then basicly ended up just being FarmFodder for CVs Dominating the Matches ?

 

 

 

If you only Played CVs because they were Ridiculously Overpowered then you should never have Played them at all.

 

 

1.

I as Average Potato do about 90k Average Damage in CV but often only like 40-60k in other Ships.

This is just 1 Person and 1 Ship Example.

And the Overall Stats look quite Different.

If you Check the Overal Stats.

The Top5% for T10 CVs do 150k while the Top5% for T10 BBs only 130k

 

2.

Lol Yes. Since the Rework I am Clearly against CVs.

Because CVs were Ridiculously Overpowered. And Needed to be Nerfed.

By the way I am not alone. Majority of the Community was not Happy with how OP CVs were so far.

 

3.

LOOOOL.

Mate

Do you know what Zero Skill Players do in other Ships ?

0

CVs with Zero Skills doing 30-60k is in itself an Admittance that they were Overpowered as Hell.

 

And No. I dont Play CVs LOOOOOL

 

My Stats for the Few Games I played Yesterday to Test the New Update.

(Not Including the Match I had with MacArthur later)

 

And then Matches I played this Month so far.

When CVs were still Ridiculously Overpowered so that even an Average Casual Potato like me.

Which has very little Skills in this Game.

Could easily Dominate a Match in a CV even if he never had the Skills to do it with any other Ship.

 

 

 

But Yeah. I dont Play CVs Clearly xD

 

 

 

 

But CV's were never OP anyway, in your opinion they might be, but simply they are not, all this arguing and bickering changes and means nothing, not one iota, WG don't care either way.

[KillStealBoss]

1 minute ago, NoobySkooby said:

But CV's were never OP anyway, in your opinion they might be, but simply they are not, all this arguing and bickering changes and means nothing, not one iota, WG don't care either way.

For him they're OP cause they're simple to play and master. Comparing his cv stats to his surface ships stats.

[Hopeless_Guppy]

Just now, MacArthur92 said:

For him they're OP cause they're simple to play and master. Comparing his cv stats to his surface ships stats.

Ah ok, so this AA rework may steady his gallup then, lol

[KillStealBoss]

3 minutes ago, NoobySkooby said:

Ah ok, so this AA rework may steady his gallup then, lol

It'll affect newer players more. His stats won't be affected too much if he knows what he is doing.

[Panocek]

Just now, NoobySkooby said:

Ah ok, so this AA rework may steady his gallup then, lol

I guess Sunleader version of balans is when sum of damage done and spotting done is equal to other classes

 

When we're at at, I want some magic mechanic so I can cap with CVs in peace

[Lootboxer]

8 minutes ago, Panocek said:

 When we're at at, I want some magic mechanic so I can cap with CVs in peace

1

WG: Odd tier CVs with caping planes incoming

[quickr]

I guess crying on forums does pay out but only if you are a CV player

[Bainsmit_steel]

2 minutes ago, quickr said:

I guess crying on forums does pay out but only if you are a CV player

And if you are dd cry babies then it is even more profitable :)....

[Panocek]

After having overall successful game in Shokek, where I've lost almost entire TB complement on attacking NC, I've rewatched replay. Out of 14 planes lost, 8 were lost on their way home, only 6 intercepted before or during attack run (multiple passes, including using heal on first run).

 

Combined with 0.8.6 upcoming change, I guess disabling AA for returning planes is only right move

[Bainsmit_steel]

2 minutes ago, Panocek said:

After having overall successful game in Shokek, where I've lost almost entire TB complement on attacking NC, I've rewatched replay. Out of 14 planes lost, 8 were lost on their way home, only 6 intercepted before or during attack run (multiple passes, including using heal on first run).

 

Combined with 0.8.6 upcoming change, I guess disabling AA for returning planes is only right move

Look my comment just a few post above yours i agree with you majority planes are lost on comeback not on run itself.

[Panocek]

You know things went haywire if even excel showed "seems like in many cases the plane losses became slightly excessive, and CV efficiency was nerfed too much" 

[quickr]

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

You know things went haywire if even excel showed "seems like in many cases the plane losses became slightly excessive, and CV efficiency was nerfed too much" 

So it's ok for me to lose most/all AA by the end of the game cos of the HE spam but it's not ok for a CV to fly half squadrons?

 

 

[Bainsmit_steel]

Half squadron is ok in 12-15 minutes after the start but not 5-8 :)...

[Panocek]

@MrConway regarding recent devblog article, are devs aware half, if not more casualties are returning planes instead ones with payload?

 

 

1 minute ago, quickr said:

So it's ok for me to lose most/all AA by the end of the game cos of the HE spam but it's not ok for a CV to fly half squadrons?

Except you're down to half squadron if you lose first one. CVs with few exceptions have only half strength squadron in reserve. And after AA change, its not hard to lose planes even if you do everything right as CV.

 

I don't see ship losing guns simply by firing them at the red ones

[asalonen]

2 hours ago, UltraViking said:

Dots is a huge part of the CV dmg ? you want me to post screenshots of 300k games that involves so many fires and floods that you can make rivers and barbq parties out of it? there are clearly different playstyles for different cvs Haku/midway as an example.

It depends on what CV you play. I have had several games with Kaga and Enterprise with more than 200k alpha. With Kaga it's dumping 30 to 40 torps into BB's, with Enterprise a lot less but then additional 50 to 100k from AP bombs. 

In general, fire and flooding damage is no more than 10 % of the total for me. Many CV's don't rely on it at all.