CV Rework Discussion

[Toivia]

Huh, so... are surface ships playable now?

I definitely didn't expect this change to have as much of an effect as this thread seems to indicate. That'd be awesome. (Well, unless you're a T4 CV against T6 ships and probably also a T6 against T8 AA.)

[_NLForces_]

I'm talking tier X CV's.

[Lootboxer]

1 minute ago, Toivia said:

Huh, so... are surface ships playable now?

I definitely didn't expect this change to have as much of an effect as this thread seems to indicate. That'd be awesome. (Well, unless you're a T4 CV against T6 ships and probably also a T6 against T8 AA.)

Probably it will be even worse to be bottom tier cv. As a bottom tier surface ship you will be priority target as well. They should make mm -,+1 for CVs. 

[KillStealBoss]

3 minutes ago, Toivia said:

Huh, so... are surface ships playable now?

I definitely didn't expect this change to have as much of an effect as this thread seems to indicate. That'd be awesome. (Well, unless you're a T4 CV against T6 ships and probably also a T6 against T8 AA.)

Seems like your don't play T4 since 2016. T4 can't see T6 , jest if making a div with T5 ship. 

[quickr]

16 minutes ago, _NLForces_ said:

This is too much Wargaming, please... 

I went from losing 80 planes on a reckless game, to losing 100 games on a very, very careful game.

The small increase in boost is not enough to compensate what you've done to AA.

 

Please increase aircraft HP, increase CV hangar size or revert this nerf, because this is clearly too much.

I've spent too much money on WoWs to drop it like this, but if this nerf is not reverted, I will leave the game for good.

 

 

Why is it sooo satisfying to read this

 

AA finally feels like it's doing something. My fully specced AA ships are finally shooting down planes. CVs finally can't fly over Des Moins like it's not there.

In other hand when you say you get deplaned I think you are exaggerating. Sure you can get deplaned (well actually you can't, ever, but nevermind) but if you are careful and pick your targets you can still sh*t on majority ships out there. And you can still sh*t on all DDs. You still spot entire map and have total map control, you still deny areas and make life for a DD a nightmare. As a CV you still have a major impact but now, you need to play carefully and you can get punished for your mistakes as it should be. From day one of this rework.

 

 

 

[Sunleader]

3 minutes ago, Toivia said:

Huh, so... are surface ships playable now?

I definitely didn't expect this change to have as much of an effect as this thread seems to indicate. That'd be awesome. (Well, unless you're a T4 CV against T6 ships and probably also a T6 against T8 AA.)

 

Not sure Yet.

I do have more Trouble Attacking Blobs and AA Specced Ships.

I do lose Planes now.

So I have to actually Choose Targets Carefully now and Cant just Bomb whoever I want whenever I want. Because otherwise I end up getting Deplaned.

 

But as my Stats Show I can still Perform Perfectly fine with CVs.

I would still Say it is MUCH better than before.

 

2 minutes ago, _NLForces_ said:

I'm talking tier X CV's.

 

This is the thing aswell, why would I keep playing a game where the community is LITERALLY trying to bully you away? And be proud of it? 
That's not a community I want to be part of.

 

Others dont want to have their Game Ruined by CVs either.

But they dont have much of a Choice do they :)

Well had not.

Now as said above. It is much Better.

I do think that the current Version should Alleviate the Toxicity towards CVs at least little bit.

 

3 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

Probably it will be even worse to be bottom tier cv. As a bottom tier surface ship you will be priority target as well. They should make mm -,+1 for CVs. 

 

I dont think Low Tier CVs will be off Worse.

Most T4 Ships Simply dont have AA at all lol.

They cant Focus anyone.

 

And Being Uptiered 2 Tiers is Hard for ANY Ship :)

 

[Toivia]

5 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Seems like your don't play T4 since 2016. T4 can't see T6 , jest if making a div with T5 ship. 

True, haven't played any T4 since the... uh, Svietlana, maybe. Yeah, definitely a long time. Anyway, that was a brain fart.

 

So the question is if there is enough AA ships like say the Texas at T4 and 5 to screw over T4 CVs. Because afaik those were not quite as OP as the better equipped higher tier ones and carry barely any planes at all.

However T6 CVs might really run into issues now.

[quickr]

Is it better or worse, hard to tell. I would say it's different.

 

All community wanted...well... all I wanted when it came to CVs is to be rewarded for fully AA speccing my ship. If I invested credits into modules and points into captain skills that boosted my AA I should be a damn no fly zone, right? Or at least make CV player think twice before attacking me. That wasn't the case before, but it is now (at least closer than before). I still can be sh*t on if I'm in a poorly AA specced ship, and that is fine. I have no gripes with that.

 

I can hear CV players saying: "but it's not fair that there are ships that are no fly zone" guess what. If I made my ship that way that means I sacrificed stealth or mobility or DPM or something else. And just cos a CV can't punish me doesn't mean someone else won't.

[Panocek]

18 minutes ago, quickr said:

 

 

Why is it sooo satisfying to read this

 

AA finally feels like it's doing something. My fully specced AA ships are finally shooting down planes. CVs finally can't fly over Des Moins like it's not there.

In other hand when you say you get deplaned I think you are exaggerating. Sure you can get deplaned (well actually you can't, ever, but nevermind) but if you are careful and pick your targets you can still sh*t on majority ships out there. And you can still sh*t on all DDs. You still spot entire map and have total map control, you still deny areas and make life for a DD a nightmare. As a CV you still have a major impact but now, you need to play carefully and you can get punished for your mistakes as it should be. From day one of this rework.

 

 

 

Then there is issue of Germans and Nippons being only ships you can't call "AA powerhouses". And "deplaned" post rework refers to inability to launch full or at least 2/3 strength squadrons. If full squads gets wiped uncomfortably fast, how long will last 2/9 "squadron" you think?

 

8 minutes ago, quickr said:

If I made my ship that way that means I sacrificed stealth or mobility or DPM or something else. And just cos a CV can't punish me doesn't mean someone else won't.

You mean taking AA mod1, simply because there isn't anything else worth the credits, taking MAA and BFT for Minotaur, whose build ends after taking AR, SI and CE? Des Moines is pretty much done after EM/AR, SI, CE as well, leaving 9 points to players leisure.

 

Only ship where you actually sacrifice something for AA build would be BBs and USN CLs. And even then former can safely build perfectly viable  tank + MAA to pew pew at planes.

 

Dedicated AA builds are for memes and in 90% cases you can take AA related skills with little to no surface combat hindrance.

[KillStealBoss]

17 minutes ago, Toivia said:

True, haven't played any T4 since the... uh, Svietlana, maybe. Yeah, definitely a long time. Anyway, that was a brain fart.

 

So the question is if there is enough AA ships like say the Texas at T4 and 5 to screw over T4 CVs. Because afaik those were not quite as OP as the better equipped higher tier ones and carry barely any planes at all.

However T6 CVs might really run into issues now.

T6 and 8 CV will suffer a lot. The T10 will have issues too if MM will put him against many AA ships

[Bear__Necessities]

Before the AA change my Neustrashimy managed 1-3 plane kills against T8 CV’s even with defensive AA popped. Now when I pop defensive AA 

[quickr]

28 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Then there is issue of Germans and Nippons being only ships you can't call "AA powerhouses". And "deplaned" post rework refers to inability to launch full or at least 2/3 strength squadrons. If full squads gets wiped uncomfortably fast, how long will last 2/9 "squadron" you think?

Like I said before, if a ship is not a dedicated AA monster I'm fine with being a CV pinata. I acknowledge it's (AA) not the ships main strength or one of the strengths. Oh so a carrier gets punished now if mistake is made. Go figure.

 

30 minutes ago, Panocek said:

You mean taking AA mod1, simply because there isn't anything else worth the credits, taking MAA and BFT for Minotaur, whose build ends after taking AR, SI and CE? Des Moines is pretty much done after EM/AR, SI, CE as well, leaving 9 points to players leisure.

 

Only ship where you actually sacrifice something for AA build would be BBs and USN CLs. And even then former can safely build perfectly viable  tank + MAA to pew pew at planes.

 

Dedicated AA builds are for memes and in 90% cases you can take AA related skills with little to no surface combat hindrance.

I won't debate which modules and which skills one should take, different players play differently. And not everyone build optimally or for competitive games. But if a player invest all his modules, perks, skills, whatever into AA he or she should be rewarded for it.

[Sunleader]

23 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

T6 and 8 CV will suffer a lot. The T10 will have issues too if MM will put him against many AA ships

 

Sure.

I am Obviously completely Screwed now.

Cant Play a Single Good Game with my T8 CV obviously.

 

 

 

LOOOL

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, quickr said:

Like I said before, if a ship is not a dedicated AA monster I'm fine with being a CV pinata. I acknowledge it's (AA) not the ships main strength or one of the strengths. Oh so a carrier gets punished now if mistake is made. Go figure.

Except when pretty much everyone are "AA powerhouse" CV only mistake can make is to get within AA range.

7 minutes ago, quickr said:

I won't debate which modules and which skills one should take, different players play differently. And not everyone build optimally or for competitive games. But if a player invest all his modules, perks, skills, whatever into AA he or she should be rewarded for it.

You don't need balls-to-the-walls AA, only a few upgrades/skills is enough to make ship with decent to good AA with bigger hurdle than its worth it.

 

3 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Sure.

I am Obviously completely Screwed now.

Cant Play a Single Good Game with my T8 CV obviously.

 

 

 

LOOOL

Now give sample you could actually call statistically meaningful

[Gvozdika]

In today's breaking news story. 

 

AA now *shock horror* shoots down planes.

 

As it turns out sending AIRCRAFT to strike an ANTI-AIRCRAFT cruiser bristling with ANTI-AIRCRAFT guns isn't as productive as it once was. 

 

*screams of mass panic and hysteria*

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, Gvozdika said:

In today's breaking news story. 

 

AA now *shock horror* shoots down planes.

 

As it turns out sending AIRCRAFT to strike an ANTI-AIRCRAFT cruiser bristling with ANTI-AIRCRAFT guns isn't as productive as it once was. 

 

*screams of mass panic and hysteria*

TB crews just called, they want live torpedoes back instead training dummies they've been using for half a year now...

[quickr]

12 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Except when pretty much everyone are "AA powerhouse" CV only mistake can make is to get within AA range.

 

13 minutes ago, Panocek said:

You don't need balls-to-the-walls AA, only a few upgrades/skills is enough to make ship with decent to good AA with bigger hurdle than its worth it.

I apologize, it's hard to understand what you are trying to say. That every ship (cruiser) is a AA monster and hard to strike after the patch?

 

I'm not a CV main, not by a long shot but i did try CVs today after the rework and I was still doing 100+k games in midway. I could still do dmg and a better player than me could do even more I'm sure. But i had to be really careful when flying near to AA ships like des or mino. As it should be. And blobs of ships were a definitively no fly zone.

 

 

 

 

[Panocek]

2 minutes ago, quickr said:

 

I apologize, it's hard to understand what you are trying to say. That every ship (cruiser) is a AA monster and hard to strike after the patch?

 

I'm not a CV main, not by a long shot but i did try CVs today after the rework and I was still doing 100+k games in midway. I could still do dmg and a better player than me could do even more I'm sure. But i had to be really careful when flying near to AA ships like des or mino. As it should be. And blobs of ships were a definitively no fly zone.

 

 

 

 

Considering post 0.8.5 even friggin Ibuki can prove to be tough cookie simply by alternating DFAA and CapFighters, inflicting considerable casualties. And thats "crap AA cruiser" without sector switching, at least I didn't noticed.

 

To wrap it up, I've traded 22 planes (3 were summoned fighters), from 91 maximum possible strike aircraft Shokaku can field and recover. All for half of cruiser hp, apparently AP bombs aren't so I win button if one isn't alergic to WSAD keys or have RNGesus blessing

 

And you might have played post rework, but have you played post 0.8.5? Because that is one BIG difference.

[Gvozdika]

To add to what I posted semi-seriously above. I've played a few CV games now post-AA change. 

 

- You DO lose more planes, no argument there. Reserves on deck shouldn't be changed numerically but perhaps the plane regen time could be tweaked.

- Attacking targets with good AA is now more noticeable, because you can't help but notice that the last plane is going from green to yellow to red rather quickly. 

- Attacking low AA targets - no real change there. The plane loss count goes down as the game goes on (since people lose their continuous AA output upon taking incoming fire as the game goes on).

- Attacking blobs of ships. It wasn't a great idea before to YOLO a squadron into 2-3 ships with most of their AA remaining - it still isn't a great idea to YOLO into 2-3 ships with most of their AA remaining.

- Unless you are the mother-of-all-muppets and fly through every flak cloud you see - you WILL land your first strike on your intended target. If you choose to follow-up and attack again - the longer time spent in the AA zone results in more losses. It's your choice as the CV player to continue striking or not.

- AA now has a greater bearing on how you play. You can reduce your plane losses by striking once - then getting out of AA and recalling. You can reduce your plane losses by avoiding high-AA targets until later on in the game. 

 

Now look at it from the surface ships viewpoint (only played 1-2 games so far).

 

- The CV attacking you DOES lose more planes. No argument there.

- If you have good AA it does net you the reward of actually shooting stuff down. You feel like you are actually fighting the guy rocketing, bombing, torping you - shooting stuff down actually HURTS the CV attacking you.

- If you have poor/damaged AA - you are still stuffed. No material difference here.

- Sticking near friendly AA ships does net the reward of seeing planes getting shot down. 

- The first attack will always get through - however your AA now has the ability to curtail follow-up attacks.

- AA now has a greater impact on defending your ship and thus no longer limited to 'just dodging' in your 65,000 tonne BB. 

 

 

 

 

[Sunleader]

39 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Except when pretty much everyone are "AA powerhouse" CV only mistake can make is to get within AA range.

You don't need balls-to-the-walls AA, only a few upgrades/skills is enough to make ship with decent to good AA with bigger hurdle than its worth it.

 

Now give sample you could actually call statistically meaningful

 

1.

Not every Cruiser is an AA Cruiser.

And not every Cruiser is even Relevant AA Wise.

Cruisers are However. Usually Equipped with at least a Decent AA.

 

2.

Sure Mate.

Maybe after the Event is Over.

I got other Things to do than to Play over a Hundred Games with my CV right now ;)

 

 

30 minutes ago, Panocek said:

TB crews just called, they want live torpedoes back instead training dummies they've been using for half a year now...

 

I have Sunk quite a few Ships with these "Training Dummies"

They are Pretty Explosive and Lethal.

Usually Doing about as much Damage as the Stuff Fired by BBs from their Main Battery Guns. *gg*

 

6 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Considering post 0.8.5 even friggin Ibuki can prove to be tough cookie simply by alternating DFAA and CapFighters, inflicting considerable casualties. And thats "crap AA cruiser" without sector switching, at least I didn't noticed.

 

To wrap it up, I've traded 22 planes (3 were summoned fighters), from 91 maximum possible strike aircraft Shokaku can field and recover. All for half of cruiser hp, apparently AP bombs aren't so I win button if one isn't alergic to WSAD keys or have RNGesus blessing

 

And you might have played post rework, but have you played post 0.8.5? Because that is one BIG difference.

 

Well Yes I did.

And obviously I got no Problem Bombing anything for the 7 Games I played.

 

Moreover. You apparently Did not get Deplaned at all lol.

Losing only something around 40 Planes.

 

Sorry. But I got no Idea what Problem you got.

If you cant Play CVs unless their Planes are practically Immune to AA like before.

Then Sorry. Maybe its not your Class you know :)

 

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

I have Sunk quite a few Ships with these "Training Dummies"

They are Pretty Explosive and Lethal.

Usually Doing about as much Damage as the Stuff Fired by BBs from their Main Battery Guns. *gg*

I'm pretty sure if I throw enough invectives at the ship it will sink... eventually

 

5 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Moreover. You apparently Did not get Deplaned at all lol.

Losing only something around 40 Planes.

Yep, because I've lost only less than half of possible CV plane loadout. For doing next to no damage.

However I was constantly short on specific plane type, dive bombers. I'm pretty sure BB without AP shells, waiting for them to recover or Wooster without HE might suffer considerably in terms of efficiency

[Sunleader]

5 minutes ago, Panocek said:

I'm pretty sure if I throw enough invectives at the ship it will sink... eventually

 

Yep, because I've lost only less than half of possible CV plane loadout. For doing next to no damage.

However I was constantly short on specific plane type, dive bombers. I'm pretty sure BB without AP shells, waiting for them to recover or Wooster without HE might suffer considerably in terms of efficiency

 

1.

Video Please :)

2.

Well Mate.

Then Sorry to Tell you.

But you apparently did something Wrong :)

 

See Mate.

Just like with all other Ships in this Game.

You now actually need at least a Minimal Level of Skill to actually Play it and do Damage to others :)

 

CVs are no longer the NoobTube that just allows you Sink vastly more Skilled Players without any Risk or Effort that it was before the Update.

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

 

1.

Video Please :)

2.

Well Mate.

Then Sorry to Tell you.

But you apparently did something Wrong :)

 

See Mate.

Just like with all other Ships in this Game.

You now actually need at least a Minimal Level of Skill to actually Play it and do Damage to others :)

 

CVs are no longer the NoobTube that just allows you Sink vastly more Skilled Players without any Risk or Effort that it was before the Update.

Because obviously I've forgot how to CV with installation of 0.8.5 patch And my wrong was assuming ship so far known to NOT have considerable AA to be viable target instead yoloing my way into Kremlin

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Because obviously I've forgot how to CV with installation of 0.8.5 patch And my wrong was assuming ship so far known to NOT have considerable AA to be viable target instead yoloing my way into Kremlin

 

Well Mate.

Your the one Claiming that you cant do any Significant Damage to others after the Update.

And i have already Proven that I can easily keep up the same Statistics I had before the Update.

 

So there is two Options here.

Either your Lying into our Faces. And Actually your doing absolutely Fine with your CVs and still get pretty Decent Damage Numbers and Results.

Or you only Played CV in the Easy Mode of them being Ridiculously Overpowered. And now that this Easy Mode was made just a tad bit Harder you no longer can Keep up with it.

 

And well Mate.

Your Profile and Statistics are Public. But despite that. I am not Allowed to just Post them on you.

So everyone unfortunately has to go to your Profile and See for himself which one it is.

[Panocek]

18 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Well Mate.

Your the one Claiming that you cant do any Significant Damage to others after the Update.

And i have already Proven that I can easily keep up the same Statistics I had before the Update.

 

So there is two Options here.

Either your Lying into our Faces. And Actually your doing absolutely Fine with your CVs and still get pretty Decent Damage Numbers and Results.

Or you only Played CV in the Easy Mode of them being Ridiculously Overpowered. And now that this Easy Mode was made just a tad bit Harder you no longer can Keep up with it.

 

And well Mate.

Your Profile and Statistics are Public. But despite that. I am not Allowed to just Post them on you.

So everyone unfortunately has to go to your Profile and See for himself which one it is.

Define "decent damage numbers and results". You can clearly have high damage numbers by farming BBs or you can have good results, coming from harrasing completely legal age boats and overall spotting work. Sometimes you can pull off both.

 

And how exactly posting ship on my forum profile interacts with my stats?

 

Edit: removed offending content!