CV Rework Discussion

[Ze_Reckless]

Show us one screen / replay where you hit 15/15 or even 14/15 torps.

[El2aZeR]

6 minutes ago, AirSupremacy said:

As there had been complaints about CV damage potential, I find that shelling and torpedos can create lots of damage too - A comparison.

 

Which ofc is complete hogwash as counterplay to shell fire and torps exist whereas counterplay to CVs is nonexistent. Whether you get hit by e.g. a torpedo or take big damage from shelling depends on yourself, whether you get hit by aircraft depends entirely on the CV player.

So in essence you're being intellectually dishonest. Again.

 

6 minutes ago, AirSupremacy said:

If you would like to see good Shimakaza players, I would recommend contacting them and exchange experiences. There is also lots of replays on Youtube & Twitch.

 

That's not what I was asking for. You said you have success in a Shima against CVs. I'd like to see that.

Every other competent DD player is telling me that DDs are pretty much impossible to play against a competent CV, an experience I can only share.

If you don't want to share proof of your apparent success, just say so. That just means however that your opinion on the subject is worthless since you can't back it up with evidence.

[Bear__Necessities]

As a good Shima player. And DD player, CV hunting is a no go. Unless, a very specific criteria is hit. And that's only happened to me 3 times in 100's upon 100's of games.

 

Now, back to CV and their soon to be plummeting numbers from tomorrow onwards.... what was the point of the the CV rework then??

[black_falcon120]

Just to throw my 2c in the destroyer ambush debate, if a CV has rocket planes, and is paying attention to the on screen indicator, they can usually burn through ⅔ of a DDs hp before going down.  That’s assuming the DD knows what he’s doing.  However by the time the DD can do that due to dying ships he’s probably around the 8 min marker, having played passively for the whole game. I’m not saying it’s impossible, there are game scenarios where the strategy works, but it’s rare, and attempting it probably leads to more damage to your team in terms of lost spotting.

[anonym_WQDIB9XrzbSp]

On 6/25/2019 at 9:25 PM, 159Hunter said:

Guess you got lucky, played 3 DD games and had CVs in 2 of them :) 

2 CV's per game T6-8 here. Had a couple late last night without CV's, but then two of those had no DD's and one had no cruisers and 5 DD's per side.

[xxNihilanxx]

1 hour ago, Bear_Necessities said:

Now, back to CV and their soon to be plummeting numbers from tomorrow onwards.... what was the point of the the CV rework then??

 

The CV rework was, like that popular, UK quiz show with Alexander Armstrong and Richard Osman, F***ing Retarded.

[Sunleader]

10 hours ago, Alipheese_XV said:

 

I don't see AA that "ignorable", but could be my habit to "expect the worst, so result will be better".

Haku can be fun, but then again everybody is blobbing up (not that I blame them - since the playerbase does this since 2016 and cannot otherwise) ^^

 

Hm, somewhat it is good to hear that my efforts are showing somehwat - but then it is scary that it is so easy to adapt?

Don't know.

But from tomorrow on it will be irrelevant as I will not play with this AA mechanic.

Too much reminds me to 2015 when Kutusow was introduced and then WG sayed "all (longrange) AA should work like this" and for CVs did go nothing for 2 weeks until WG finally realized that planes which are made to respond with middle range AA will evaporate instantly with this long range AA and gave us new planes.

 

Well. Think about it the other way around.

Do you think that a Good CV Player would be able to just like that Start Playing Surface Ships and Adapt this Fast ? :)

We actually had this in this Topic. And the CV Player needed 2 Weeks just to Reach Average Levels on a DD.

 

Your Efforts are Pretty Clear on all Ships you Play.

But the thing is.

I am an Average Potato.

I am absolutely NOWHERE near your Skill Level in this Game.

 

And here is the Thing.

No Matter how Seriously I played my DDs, BBs and Cruisers. I would not manage to Equal Your Results for 10-20 Games Session.

But with a CV ? Not a Problem. I am getting close even if I am not Playing that Seriously. And if I play Seriously I can Equal your Stats for such a Session in CVs.

And this Should honestly said not Happen. I am a Casual Player and Pretty Average. I am clearly nowhere close to the Time Investment or Skills you got in this.

But thanks to CVs being this Overpowered I can keep Pace.

 

And I am not even a CV Main.

My Main Class is actually supposed to be BBs.

 

9 hours ago, Operation_Crossroads_1 said:

 

I'm curious, base dpm for Shima type 93 mod 3 is 139,800, how do you get yours up to over 350,000?

 

I am pretty sure he doesnt even know what DPM Means.

 

8 hours ago, AirSupremacy said:

30% reload module, 8km torps reload is around 90 secs.

Who cares if 314K potential damage takes 1 or 2 minutes reload, there is not enough red ships on a map to deal the salvo damage during a match.

Wishing a nice summer and joy in the game :)

 

I doubt you could Provide a Screenshot of doing 300k Damage with the Shimakaze in a Complete Random Battle.

Left alone per Minute....

 

And No.

Actually Shimakaze is a T10 Ship.

So the Match usually Contains Red Ships worth around 600-800k Damage (Repairs not even Included)

 

Not that I expect you to know this of course.

You obviously cant even Calculate Right.

Since even with the Legendary Reload Module etc. The Absolute Highest DPM that can be Achieved with the Shima is around 240-250k

But then again. I doubt that even that Number is Something you could actually even Achieve in the Entire Battle with a Shimakaze.

 

 

7 hours ago, Zieten said:

He's just trolling, that's all. You should have noticed once he was talking about ambushing a CV with torps...

 

^^this

 

5 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Because then you can't correct the bull that said person posts. Some people may actually come to these forums, read something that is a complete lie and take it as truth if you don't.

That and it's far from the first lie that he's parading around as the truth.

 

 

Because

1. Only a bad CV gets ambushed by a DD.

2. Only a bad CV dies in an ambush by a DD.

3. A bad CV never was worth ambushing in the first place.

4. You've wasted a ton of time attempting to ambush a bad CV, the perhaps most worthless member of the enemy team. This has an extremely high potential to lose your team the match by default.

And ofc if the enemy CV doesn't happen to be incompetent

5. You've wasted a ton of time attempting to ambush a CV only to die to him in the process. This has an extremely high potential to lose your team the match by default.

 

As such anyone who recommends ambushing a CV and says it is effective is just a straight up liar and should be considered as someone that's actively working towards sabotaging this game.

 

What about Ambushing a DD in my Graf Zeppelin by being in an Easy to Reach Spot on Purpose and then Kill the DD with my Secondaries ?

[El2aZeR]

25 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

What about Ambushing a DD in my Graf Zeppelin by being in an Easy to Reach Spot on Purpose and then Kill the DD with my Secondaries ?

 

Is called outplay camrade.

Perfectly balans. 

 

Seriously tho if a DD fails to kill you at point blank range then he deserves to die even more. If he's farther away than that he never had the advantage to begin with, meme secondaries or not.

[Sunleader]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Is called outplay camrade.

Perfectly balans. 

 

Seriously tho if a DD fails to kill you at point blank range then he deserves to die even more. If he's farther away than that he never had the advantage to begin with, meme secondaries or not.

 

Well. Dont Underestimate the GZs Armor and Secondary Power.

 

The GZ has quite the Impressive Secondary Armamanet.

The GZ has 16x150mm (8 on each side) and 12x105mm Guns (on Top).

So basicly. It has a Light Cruiser on each Side and 2xDDs on Top. lol

 

Worse than that. The GZ is Quite Armored for a CV.

Alot of the Armor is Strong enough that HE Shells from DDs just Shatter without doing any Damage.

And given how Fireproof CVs are. The Fires of a DD are not a real Risk.

 

So the Only Chance the DD has in a Fight is to Land Torpedo Strikes.

But this only Works if the CV is actually Surprised and thus is Giving Broadside to the DD or if the DD is Really Really Close before the CV Notices it. :)

 

(Also. Funny but True. The GZs Citadel is Rather Flat and Deep inside the Water. So it can actually Broadside a Yamato and will usually not get Citadelled lol) 

[El2aZeR]

Just now, Sunleader said:

Well. Dont Underestimate the GZs Armor and Secondary Power.

 

I'm not, I'm just saying any other T8 CV doesn't exactly have issues combating DDs that rush them either. GZ just has the extra level of safety (and memes) in her secondary guns, however that doesn't mean a DD will fare much better against any other CV assuming the CV player has achieved basic competence.

 

4 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

So the Only Chance the DD has in a Fight is to Land Torpedo Strikes.

But this only Works if the CV is actually Surprised and thus is Giving Broadside to the DD or if the DD is Really Really Close before the CV Notices it. :)

 

Precisely this.

[Excavatus]

Guys,

 

I'd just done a little bit cleaning,

Please use this already very long thread about CV related discussions.

next wave of off-topics will be cleaned out not by hand but by water which will bring some sanctions with it.

 

Gd'day.

 

 

[Sprockett]

well you can sink a CV with a DD, but if the CV gets a final wave of planes off then he will kill you, even after his hull is dead (which again is so Ehh as no other ship has the ability to carry on fighting once they are dead)

 

https://replayswows.com/replay/46684#video

 

 

[Yedwy]

That is teue however you can compare planes to torps in that regard, not really a same thing since one are player controlled but still if torps are on the way and you kill a dd they dont stop their run its a game after all

[Toivia]

That's where I've never been a fan of the "planes = shells/torps" comparison. The planes themselves don't deal damage when they get near the enemy, it's what they carry that does, after you pick a spot for it to drop/launch/...

In that case, planes are a means to get the ammunition to the target, AKA a gun. Fun fact for those complaining because of the possibility to lose planes (and thus not being able to temporarily deliver strikes): guns can also be destroyed.

 

In that vein, pls don't compare planes to launched torpedoes. The torpedoes launched by your planes, those can be compared with a surface ship's launched torpedoes.

The fact your current plane squad "survives" the death of the CV hull is merely a result of their separation of the controlled entities hull/plane squad and probably their initial inability to link the destruction of both (the time limit of 3? minutes came later).

[Panocek]

So, first impressions of new AA change? So far played once in Aegis... and it wasn't quite fun, losing third to half of the squadrons to ships you wouldn't consider "AA" with rest of the squadron plinked away on their way home.

[KillStealBoss]

1 hour ago, Toivia said:

That's where I've never been a fan of the "planes = shells/torps" comparison. The planes themselves don't deal damage when they get near the enemy, it's what they carry that does, after you pick a spot for it to drop/launch/...

In that case, planes are a means to get the ammunition to the target, AKA a gun. Fun fact for those complaining because of the possibility to lose planes (and thus not being able to temporarily deliver strikes): guns can also be destroyed.

 

In that vein, pls don't compare planes to launched torpedoes. The torpedoes launched by your planes, those can be compared with a surface ship's launched torpedoes.

The fact your current plane squad "survives" the death of the CV hull is merely a result of their separation of the controlled entities hull/plane squad and probably their initial inability to link the destruction of both (the time limit of 3? minutes came later).

Go play carries now, I wanna see you dealing more than 80k dmg on T8 especially against T10s....

[Toivia]

5 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Go play carries now, I wanna see you dealing more than 80k dmg on T8 especially against T10s....

Hmm, your frustration of the recent nerf makes you quote entirely unrelated posts and ask a player that doesn't play carriers to play carriers. I dabbled somewhat with old RTS low tier CVs, I partook in testing for the rework (with all or almost all CVs) and after a couple coop battles after release don't wanna touch them anymore.

The whole "controlling planes" part is already enough to keep me from playing them. I'm not a freaking pilot and don't want to be.

[Puffin_]

From a player with terrible hidden stats, after update

[Lootboxer]

Finally some salt coming back  

I am glad that I've not purchased premium CVs even though big E looks stronk still. I am happy to see my CVs useless for more fun in surface ships in return. 

 

 

[Namuras]

29 minutes ago, GudmundurG said:

From a player with terrible hidden stats, after update

Do you consider this a good game? A bad game? What did the lineups look like? There is a bit of information missing to put it into context.

[KillStealBoss]

1 hour ago, Toivia said:

Hmm, your frustration of the recent nerf makes you quote entirely unrelated posts and ask a player that doesn't play carriers to play carriers. I dabbled somewhat with old RTS low tier CVs, I partook in testing for the rework (with all or almost all CVs) and after a couple coop battles after release don't wanna touch them anymore.

The whole "controlling planes" part is already enough to keep me from playing them. I'm not a freaking pilot and don't want to be.

You compared plane torps to ship torps. Plane torps do no meaningful dmg, just of you hit more than 10. While on DD 2-3 torps hurt a lot and do same damage. And with new AA you won't be able to do much. The only valid CV is Kaga bit she'll also suffer. 

[Toivia]

21 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

You compared plane torps to ship torps. Plane torps do no meaningful dmg, just of you hit more than 10. While on DD 2-3 torps hurt a lot and do same damage. And with new AA you won't be able to do much. The only valid CV is Kaga bit she'll also suffer. 

I compared ship and plane torps as a "surviving item" after player is killed. Nothing more.

[SeedFrontier]

I  compared torps plane

 

Do you think today more games with CV ? 

 

how many coal cost japan cc tier X ?

[Sunleader]

4 hours ago, Panocek said:

So, first impressions of new AA change? So far played once in Aegis... and it wasn't quite fun, losing third to half of the squadrons to ships you wouldn't consider "AA" with rest of the squadron plinked away on their way home.

 

So Far it looks Fine.

Playing my GZ for Money.

Still getting alot of Money out of it.

 

My Averages have not Really Changed to before the Update.

Albeit it has become much more Importand to Choose Targets and to Avoid Heavy AA Specced Cruisers.

I can Still Bomb a Minotaur. But now you Really See beforehand just how fast that thing Kills your Planes xD

I also Noticed. That now Cruisers having a more Forward Position is actually rather Dangerous.

Because Flying over them costs you Planes.

And I also noticed one more Thing.

 

Farming a Solo Ship Somewhere Infinitely now doesnt work anymore.

Even Weak AA Ships will at least Cost you 1 or 2 Planes and thus Prevent the Last Drop :)

 

I am Fairly Happy with that for now.

CVs are Still Moderately Overpowered. And thanks to how the Rework Mechanics work.

This will likely not Change unless we Completely Rework Several Parts of it.

But its clearly an Improvement compared to Before.

 

 

3 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

Go play carries now, I wanna see you dealing more than 80k dmg on T8 especially against T10s....

 

This is Actually rather Hard now :)

 

On T9 I have Managed it Just now.

 

 

On T10 so Far I have only Managed 77k Max

(Which is Honestly Said Perfectly Reasonable for a T8 in T10. Other T8 Shiplcasses in would be Incredible Happy if like me with GZ they would Manage to Reliably get 60-70k Damage in a T10 Battle)

 

But I will keep Trying.

Only did 7 Games so Far.

So its not Like I have yet Completely Adapted to the New AA.

Might still be able to Manage it later.

 

I am however very Happy that it is actually a Challenge to Achieve it now.

 

1 hour ago, MacArthur92 said:

You compared plane torps to ship torps. Plane torps do no meaningful dmg, just of you hit more than 10. While on DD 2-3 torps hurt a lot and do same damage. And with new AA you won't be able to do much. The only valid CV is Kaga bit she'll also suffer. 

 

Well.

DDs cant Really Guarantee their Torp Hits like Planes either.

A DD would need to do a Suicide Run to get close enough to Guarantee Torp Hits like a CV Does.

And Chances are he would be Killed long before he gets into Range.

So he can Only Throw from rather far Away.

 

And dont get me Wrong.

But 10 Torp Hits with a DD are Actually pretty Rare.

10 Torp Hits with a CV are pretty much Standard if your a CV using TBs alot. :)

[_NLForces_]

May I welcome you to CARRIERS AFTER 0.8.5!!
Here you need tiptoe around the map, pick targets really carefully and STILL lose up to 5 aircraft per drop.
You will ALWAYS get deplaned, you will NOT maintain your strike potential after 10 minutes and you will CERTAINLY be insulted, hated and despised by the community.
This does not sound like a way to spend my time.

Were we in need of a buff? Yes, absolutely
Is this too much? In my humble opinion, yes again.