CV Rework Discussion

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

Anyone successfully managed to gun down a CV with a DD yet? 

I lobbed a few shells at a CV yesterday with my DD, but noticed quickly that is just a waste of my time. The 5s fire duration is so WarGaming...

[Yedwy]

5 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Anyone successfully managed to gun down a CV with a DD yet? 

I lobbed a few shells at a CV yesterday with my DD, but noticed quickly that is just a waste of my time. The 5s fire duration is so WarGaming...

Well kinnda... Depends if you count Atlanta as a dd ot not 

[Panocek]

2 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Well kinnda... Depends if you count Atlanta as a dd ot not 

Then there is Z-23, carrying CL sized guns... that and we can only come to a conclusion Minotaur best DD

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, Yedwy said:

Xe, Xe, Xe I wonder where all those guys proclaiming before 0.8.0 all balancing would be finalised in 2 months tops are gone nowdays 

They are still here being apologetic at every chance they get. Not sure though since I blocked a couple of them for constantly derailing the topic by repeating the same over again without adding anything to the dicussion

26 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Anyone successfully managed to gun down a CV with a DD yet? 

I lobbed a few shells at a CV yesterday with my DD, but noticed quickly that is just a waste of my time. The 5s fire duration is so WarGaming...

I can't recall any instance where I was killed by a DD itself. Usually it is a BB in range that kills me off when DD spotted if ever. The DD usually doesn't or barely survives.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

9 minutes ago, Europizza said:

They are still here being apologetic at every chance they get. Not sure though since I blocked most of them 

I can't recall any instance where I was killed by a DD itself. Usually it is a BB in range that kills me off when DD spotted if ever. The DD usually doesn't or barely survives.

:(

 

27 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Well kinnda... Depends if you count Atlanta as a dd ot not 

:(

 

@Crysantos When can we expect removal of the 5s fire time for CVs? While it is difficult to protect your teammates from getting attacked by a CV, it is very simple to protect your own carrier from such attacks. I personally see no reason anymore for the 5s and think it should be brought up to 60 seconds.

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

2 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

:(

 

:(

 

@Crysantos When can we expect removal of the 5s fire time for CVs? While it is difficult to protect your teammates from getting attacked by a CV, it is very simple to protect your own carrier from such attacks. I personally see no reason anymore for the 5s and think it should be brought up to 60 seconds.

 

For this to work the CV auto immune system needs to be dumped, but I agree wholeheartedly. 

[FerrowTheFox]

Vor 1 Stunde, fumtu sagte:

SuntsMan video about changes to AA in 0.8.5

 

 

 

Seriously, how do they keep coming up with some of this stuff?
Of course, AA crews shoot at the planes NOT attacking you.

Also, this doesn't really address the problem of surface ships being at the mercy of CVs, but at the same time makes the game experience more frustrating for the CV players as well. I mean, you now lose the planes you`re not controlling and can't do anything about that.

I'm not saying balancing AA or CVs as a whole is easy, but c'mon it's been how long? I came back to WoWS to take a look how it's coming along and everything is still a mess. And they keep on just pushing stuff to live servers that feels like it was the first thing that came up in a meeting and was hardly tested on PTS.

But, to be constructive, just a few ideas off the top of my head:

- Instead of only linking AA effects to plane HP alone, why not try other mechanics?.
--> If a plane receives a hit, in addition to taking damage, there's a x% chance for it to become incapacitated (control surfaces damaged, engine shot up) or outright killed (ordnance detonation, pilot killed). Incapacitated planes lead to wider turn circles for the squad or can't use engine boost anymore.
--> The more AA in a given area, the more pilots are distracted by it and thus drop accuracy suffers, leading to a wider drop area. This simple inclusion would mean CVs could still attack AA blobs but scoring fewer hits.
Both these give you additional values for tweaking besides HP and AA damage.

- Include servicing times according to the state of the planes.
--> Damaged planes need to be repaired (x HP/sec), lost planes are replaced from the reserves. Until that video I didn't even know the servicing time for damaged and full-health planes were the same. Seriously, WTH?! Damaged should mean damaged. It would mean that even if your AA didn't kill a plane it counts for something, i.e. the time before the planes can be sortied again.

- Generally speaking, add any resemblance of depth to flight deck operations on carriers. However I better make a separate post about some ideas me and wows playing friends had about those. (Not that it matters, when so many good suggestions by others have already been ignored)

[Lootboxer]

2 hours ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

Anyone successfully managed to gun down a CV with a DD yet? 

I lobbed a few shells at a CV yesterday with my DD, but noticed quickly that is just a waste of my time. The 5s fire duration is so WarGaming...

Yep. I gunned down full HP T8 CV to death with Z46 without even scoring one torpedo hit (he dodged all). But I used AP only and he killed me later (but we won, he tried to cap and I had to attempt to kill him even if I knew he will most likely kill me). 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

1 minute ago, DariusJacek said:

Yep. I gunned down full HP T8 CV to death with Z46 without even scoring one torpedo hit (he dodged all). But I used AP only and he killed me later (but we won, he tried to cap and I had to attempt to kill him even if I knew he will most likely kill me). 

That is nice, unless the CV player angles by accident... 

[Lootboxer]

10 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

That is nice, unless the CV player angles by accident... 

This one did not  TBH he wasn't a good player, average one would kill me much faster as I was less then 1/5 of HP and without smokes left when I had engaged him and it took me a while to get him. 

[mcboernester]

I'm actually good with the new aa under 1 condition: Give me the ability to strike with all planes at once. It will basically be like old times. If you stick with an AA ship you should be safe, if you can dodge that 1 drop you will hardly take any dmg at all. However let the cv player be rewarded in return. if theres a singled out ship you should also be able to significantly hurt it. This would actually reward skill. If I F up my planes just die, if the surface ship f's up the same will happen to him. 

 

I dunno if the idea came up because im beeing cooked alive here but the more i think about it the better it sounds to me...

[Toivia]

18 minutes ago, mcboernester said:

I'm actually good with the new aa under 1 condition: Give me the ability to strike with all planes at once. It will basically be like old times. If you stick with an AA ship you should be safe, if you can dodge that 1 drop you will hardly take any dmg at all. However let the cv player be rewarded in return. if theres a singled out ship you should also be able to significantly hurt it. This would actually reward skill. If I F up my planes just die, if the surface ship f's up the same will happen to him. 

 

I dunno if the idea came up because im beeing cooked alive here but the more i think about it the better it sounds to me...

Well, I'd be okay with that for torps, but bombs and rockets would be insane. Those you can rarely dodge yourself. If the CV doesn't [edited]up, he hits you. And with that many bombs/rockets at once, you'd do like 40k DMG easily. What's more, even an AA ship close by would probably not kill enough planes fast enough to prevent the drop.

 

Anyway yes, with 34 freaking degrees celsius right here in the shadow, I probably can't think straight either. Would a CVs planes provide enough wind and shadow to cool me down?

[Seepheerd]

I like cv.

Also like to play with other ships but low tier (i.e VII) just not fun anymore.

[Panocek]

9 minutes ago, Toivia said:

Well, I'd be okay with that for torps, but bombs and rockets would be insane. Those you can rarely dodge yourself. If the CV doesn't [edited]up, he hits you. And with that many bombs/rockets at once, you'd do like 40k DMG easily. What's more, even an AA ship close by would probably not kill enough planes fast enough to prevent the drop.

 

Anyway yes, with 34 freaking degrees celsius right here in the shadow, I probably can't think straight either. Would a CVs planes provide enough wind and shadow to cool me down?

Well, amount of rockets/bombs you can easily balance with dispersion. After all, window where planes can be to launch their ordnance with real hopes of landing it on target is quite small.

 

Speaking of which, attack wind size toggle could be a thing - small, two plane attack wings for precise attacks or 4, if not 6 planes in wing to brute force your way through with questionable accuracy.

[Alfa_Tau]

Actually I have come to the conclusion that CV rework is OK

 

perhaps iot's time to rework the players as I keep seeing people playing like in World of Tanks yoloing the enemy alone in plain sight and get deleted in 5 minutes.

some time ago battles were more balanced to some point where 1 team was achieving a positional advantage and creating a successfull push. 

In the end winner team had 3 or 4 ships. Today u see results like 14 to 1!! 

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

11 minutes ago, Alfa_Tau said:

Actually I have come to the conclusion that CV rework is OK

 

How/why have you come to that conclusion?

[EgyptOverseer]

21 minutes ago, Alfa_Tau said:

Actually I have come to the conclusion that CV rework is OK

 

perhaps iot's time to rework the players as I keep seeing people playing like in World of Tanks yoloing the enemy alone in plain sight and get deleted in 5 minutes.

some time ago battles were more balanced to some point where 1 team was achieving a positional advantage and creating a successfull push. 

In the end winner team had 3 or 4 ships. Today u see results like 14 to 1!! 

I see the heatwave is strong where you live. Stay hydrated!

 

[Alfa_Tau]

21 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

I see the heatwave is strong where you live. Stay hydrated!

 

Obiously  my comment was sarcastic.

However I see people complaining all around perhaps because they don't know or don't remember when a high tier CV could delete a ship in a single strike.

Today this does not exhist any  more (and this is positive). But of course the presence of a CV in a game should trigger different tactic.

instead people play like CV where not around and then they complain .   

[Guest]

On 6/24/2019 at 11:19 PM, Sunleader said:

 

Not Sure about that to be Honest.

In my Ryo I was not Scared of T8 Ships at all.

Even if they Supposedly had Good AA.

Which is not that Surprising because TBs dont really care much for AA in the First Place.

 

With my T8 CVs Facing T8 Ships is like Walk in the Park.

For most Part I can Ignore AA and dont even need to Evade Flak.

 

I dont have T10 CV Yet. Albeit I am on 200k for Shokaku by now.

So wont be Long before I can also Start Checking what a T10 CV can Do.

 

 

And Well.

You ARE getting Unicum Stats with your CVs.

Admittedly its not an Hard Task as Proven by the Sessions where I for a Change Played for the Win instead of Fooling around and Bombing Minotaurs and Kremlins with T8 CV for the Fun of it. Or going into Melee with my Graf Zeppelin getting 200 Secondary Gun Hits on other Ships because I am not Just Bombing Enemy BBs but are Shooting at them with the Light Cruiser I got Strapped to my Side Armor.

 

But it still Shows up quite a bit when Looking at you in General.

Because your Clearly not Someone who lacks Gaming Experience for other Ships.

So you managing to Produce the same and Better Stats with CVs Says alot about the CVs current Power Levels.

 

I don't see AA that "ignorable", but could be my habit to "expect the worst, so result will be better".

Haku can be fun, but then again everybody is blobbing up (not that I blame them - since the playerbase does this since 2016 and cannot otherwise) ^^

 

Hm, somewhat it is good to hear that my efforts are showing somehwat - but then it is scary that it is so easy to adapt?

Don't know.

But from tomorrow on it will be irrelevant as I will not play with this AA mechanic.

Too much reminds me to 2015 when Kutusow was introduced and then WG sayed "all (longrange) AA should work like this" and for CVs did go nothing for 2 weeks until WG finally realized that planes which are made to respond with middle range AA will evaporate instantly with this long range AA and gave us new planes.

[Arrive_Alive]

So CVs will be dead in 0.8.5. Which is good, i guess. Took 218 pages to get to that point.

[AirSupremacy]

edited

 

[Woof_for_Me]

Why is ambushing a CV with torpedoes wrong?

 

edited

[El2aZeR]

 

edit

 

 

9 hours ago, Rose_Dikinson said:

Why is ambushing a CV with torpedoes wrong?

 

Because

1. Only a bad CV gets ambushed by a DD.

2. Only a bad CV dies in an ambush by a DD.

3. A bad CV never was worth ambushing in the first place.

4. You've wasted a ton of time attempting to ambush a bad CV, the perhaps most worthless member of the enemy team. This has an extremely high potential to lose your team the match by default.

And ofc if the enemy CV doesn't happen to be incompetent

5. You've wasted a ton of time attempting to ambush a CV only to die to him in the process. This has an extremely high potential to lose your team the match by default.

 

As such anyone who recommends ambushing a CV and says it is effective is just a straight up liar and should be considered as someone that's actively working towards sabotaging this game.

[AirSupremacy]

edited

[El2aZeR]

22 minutes ago, AirSupremacy said:

I find it sad that you call other forum users liars and will reach out to Wargaming about it.

 

Funny, considering I'm not in violation of forum rules while you are. Posting stuff about Shima in the CV thread is extremely off topic.

 

To steer this topic towards the original point however, I'd like to see proof of you doing well in Shima against a competent CV. Because every bit of data we have tells us that you've actually never had a good Shima match in your entire career neither on this account nor on your alt.