CV Rework Discussion

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, AirSupremacy said:

It has always remained the same.

 

That much I know. Whether WG knows it as well, remains to be seen

[El2aZeR]

15 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Albeit in a sense it becomes more of Heal instead of a Tanking Shield.

Because its getting useful for Repairing Damage from being hit by a Black Cloud.

 

Which is fair enough.

 

15 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Saipan being Nerfed is actually good.

It was OP even among CVs.

 

I mean, on the other hand it's a relative buff to the Enterprise. AGAIN.

Meanwhile already weak CVs are going to become even weaker. Take the Furious bombers for example, you have a squad of 4 with an attack wing of 2, making them become a one off weapon that is already pretty ineffective. And ofcgetting up tiered is going to be even more painful than it is already.

 

If the goal was to nerf the Saipan and other overperforming CVs there are far better ways to do it. This just hits more wrong spots than right ones.

 

19 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

It could actually be a Buff because you might get 1 plane through instead of 3 going red and then dying all at once.

 

Meh, chance of hitting something with a single plane is fairly low and damage is often negligible. I'd say that makes the last attack wing rather pointless.

 

21 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Why do you think Bailing Wings will be Killed ?

 

Spreading the damage between the bailing planes is currently pretty much the only chance they have for survival until they reach immunity altitude. Even against low AA ships they'll often come back heavily damaged.

If damage is applied to a single plane instead chances are they're all going to die in short order.

[Sunleader]

10 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Except CV skillgap WG edition means impassable/unavoidable hurdles instead something you could apply, I dunno, skill to evade/reduce? Unless your definition of skill is "late game, CV vs [AA ship]: GG no re" simply because that AA ship is unreachable or you can drop ordnance once at expense of entire squadron

 

Buff that gets shot down HARD by one-by-one AA dps

 

Besides, GZ have THE highest bomb pen in game and before buff, it was only few mm short of Haku bombs at 350mm or so. What breaks GZ bombs is (too) flat trajectory, so bombs can have all the pen in the world but they detonate before reaching citadel proper

 

1.

Well.

Dont get me Wrong.

But that Sounds about right to me.

 

In a DD the Skillgap basicly means the difference between Torping enemy BBs and being Killed before your in Range of an Enemy Ship.

 

For Pretty much all Ships.

The Skillgap means that Skilled Players get through to make Damage while Bad Players get Killed before they can do Damage.

 

2.

Well.

GZ TBs got 6km Torp Range and fairly fast Torps.

So the 5k Torps might work surprisingly well with new AA.

 

3.

Hmm.

I usually Drop High.

So Trajectory is same as Shokaku.

The Indicator is just tricky.

Cause for good Drop you need to start the Attack after the Indicator has passed the Target

 

 

3 minutes ago, AirSupremacy said:

WG has always designed the CV class to achieve 130K average damage by performance players,

reflected by the emblem.

 

Aircraft Carrier Commander. Elite Forces
"Achieve 130,000 average damage per battle."

https://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Patches_and_Emblems

 

 

You do Realize that this is an Achievement for Elite and is absolutely thus supposed to be something only Unicums get right ???

[Sunleader]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Which is fair enough.

 

 

I mean, on the other hand it's a relative buff to the Enterprise. AGAIN.

Meanwhile already weak CVs are going to become even weaker. Take the Furious bombers for example, you have a squad of 4 with an attack wing of 2, making them become a one off weapon that is already pretty ineffective. And ofcgetting up tiered is going to be even more painful than it is already.

 

If the goal was to nerf the Saipan and other overperforming CVs there are far better ways to do it. This just hits more wrong spots than right ones.

 

 

Meh, chance of hitting something with a single plane is fairly low and damage is often negligible. I'd say that makes the last attack wing rather pointless.

 

 

Spreading the damage between the bailing planes is currently pretty much the only chance they have for survival until they reach immunity altitude. Even against low AA ships they'll often come back heavily damaged.

If damage is applied to a single plane instead chances are they're all going to die in short order.

 

2.

True.

Enterprise really didnt need a buff of all things...

 

3.

1 is more than 0 :)

And 1 Torp still Hurts.

 

4.

Hmm.

But that could actually be a buff then.

The Bailing Planes thanks the new System will basicly always start out Green.

So instead of either getting a Full Red Squad back or nothing at all.

You will now likely often get Half the Planes Back.

Because the Damage is always on one Plane and thus some Planes wont be touched before Immunity.

[Panocek]

12 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

1.

Well.

Dont get me Wrong.

But that Sounds about right to me.

Funny, because any other ship class I play, its supposed "victim" refuses to die simply to my presence

 

14 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

GZ TBs got 6km Torp Range and fairly fast Torps.

supersonic kek. 35kts, equal to any other non IJN CV is fairly fast now

 

10 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

And 1 Torp still Hurts.

About as much as single BB pen... muchos damagos camrade, especially when you have limited amount of means of delivering that damage.

[Bear__Necessities]

On my 6th DD game of the night. No CV’s anywhere... hummm, it’s almost like there was a predictable drop in CV’s expected by those of us which experience...

[MadGunna]

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Basically:

- Saipan and other CVs with low squad sizes, low reserves and/or long respawn times are probably going to become unplayable.

- Bailing attack wings are pretty much guaranteed to die.

- last attack wing can never be used

- heal for TBs becomes rather pointless

 

Meanwhile surface ships will continue to be frustrated since if CVs weren't guaranteed a single strike before, they surely are now.

And well, this only makes stuff like slingshotting, squad shortening and accel bail even more essential, once again widening the skill gap.

Slingshotting is abusing the immunity period after a drop for Dive bombers. Is squad shortening is where you pop off an attack wave before hitting a ship to preserve them for later, aka pre-dropping? Also, what is an Accel bail?

[El2aZeR]

7 minutes ago, MadGunna said:

Slingshotting is abusing the immunity period after a drop for Dive bombers. Is squad shortening is where you pop off an attack wave before hitting a ship to preserve them for later, aka pre-dropping? Also, what is an Accel bail?

 

Yes, squad shortening is pre-dropping.

Accelerated bailout is abusing the immunity period and speed boost after a drop to make your planes reach immunity altitude faster with less casualties. This is achieved by accelerating immediately after an attack then pressing F, all while still in the drop animation.

[CptBarney]

Well this rework has been pointless i guess, im sure the russian bb at tier 5 found it fun and engaging when he got slowly wittled down by my hosho and a friendly langley.

 

I mean its failed to do whats its promised by knew that it would be a fail pf somekind when wargaming failed to allow anyone to test them carry tests for more than 6 months and have multiple reworks to try out.

 

i like cv’s but frankly its almost impossible to ignore the fails and issues its caused and/or created (dont mind meta shifts, i usually adapt).

[black_falcon120]

This is overall a nerf to cariers, so is there a compensating buff?

 

 

[mariouus]

19 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

This is overall a nerf to cariers, so is there a compensating buff?

There is almost nothing, that can be buffed on a CV. Concept is too shallow.

 

 

[black_falcon120]

10 minutes ago, mariouus said:

There is almost nothing, that can be buffed on a CV. Concept is too shallow.

 

 

whut, aircraft hp, aircraft speed, rocket/torp/bomb damage, plane  regen rate...

 

[159Hunter]

1 hour ago, Bear_Necessities said:

On my 6th DD game of the night. No CV’s anywhere... hummm, it’s almost like there was a predictable drop in CV’s expected by those of us which experience...

Guess you got lucky, played 3 DD games and had CVs in 2 of them :) 

[Admiral_Fene]

[Bear__Necessities]

9 minutes ago, 159Hunter said:

Guess you got lucky, played 3 DD games and had CVs in 2 of them :) 

9 games. 1 CV game and we won. RNG liked my sacrifice it seems 😂

[mariouus]

5 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

whut, aircraft hp, aircraft speed, rocket/torp/bomb damage, plane  regen rate...

They can't, because this would be against their goal, what they are trying do achive in the first place. 

 

CV is a Damage Farming class, it does not have any other propeties. The changes in patch is targeted do make non-CV players less frustrated when farmed. Because of that, they can not really buff anything that is connected do CV damage farming ability. And there is nothing else left.

 

Non-CV classes have more than 20 separate propeties do nerf or buff.

 

CV has very few, you listed almost all of them. All the other possible propeties are allready very good (so buffing would not change anything), or mostly irrelavent (buffing would change something extremly rarely).

[_Ezio_]

2 hours ago, Panocek said:

That was for RTS and dunno if still applied and WG simply forgot to adjust it

it was lowered from 135 or 140k... so no it was adjusted...

[Sunleader]

2 hours ago, Panocek said:

Funny, because any other ship class I play, its supposed "victim" refuses to die simply to my presence

 

supersonic kek. 35kts, equal to any other non IJN CV is fairly fast now

 

About as much as single BB pen... muchos damagos camrade, especially when you have limited amount of means of delivering that damage.

 

1.

Got no Problem on that End.

When I Play CV most People will usually Flee in Panic when I Focus them.

So far the only Hindrance to my Damage Counter is when I got a Competent Team which Roflstomps the Enemy Faster than I can Kill them.

Thanks to that I often get 140k and even 160k Games when I lose. But only 80-100k Games when I win lol.

 

2.

My Mistake. I somehow tought they were Faster.

I wonder if I mixed it up with some other Carrier ??

Still 6km Range means they can Drop from fairly Far Away if they want.

I often make a Nose Drop on 10km when a Ship is Heading towards me. So I can Crossdrop in afterwards.

 

3.

Yes. And Just as Dangerous.

Because if you Hit outside the Torpedo Bulges the Damage can Increase to that of a Citadel Pen from said BB.

GZ still has 5k Damage on Torps. Which means a Cruiser or AP Bomber Citadel Penetration.

While Shokaku got over 7k and Haku even 9k thus providing enough to Equal a BB Citadel Penetration.

 

Add to that the Flooding Chance and this is far from Nothing.

 

 

1 hour ago, black_falcon120 said:

This is overall a nerf to cariers, so is there a compensating buff?

 

 

 

When you Nerf OP things you dont Compensate it with a Buff.

The Intention of Nerfing a Ship is to make it Weaker so it Stops being Overpowered.

If you Buffed it and Compensated the Nerf it would be Meaningless to Nerf it in the First Place.

 

12 minutes ago, _Ezio_ said:

it was lowered from 135 or 140k... so no it was adjusted...

 

130k for CVs

108k for BBs

95k for Cruisers

65k for DDs

Of Average Damage.

 

 

Are the Values Required for the Highest Possible Badge.

The Elite Forces Badge which is Supposed to only be Granted to the Best Players of the Class.

 

Then how about we Compare that with the Actual Values.

 

The Top 5% of each Class Score.

(Using the Average of the Top5% Players taken for All T10 Ships for each Class)

 

150k for CVs

132k for BBs

106k for Cruisers

86k for DDs

Of Average Damage.

 

Which Means that the Elite Players Supposed to get this Batch. Are Perfectly Capable of getting the Badge for their Respective Class.

 

 

 

The Problem is.

That our Friend AirSupremacy there.

Is trying to make it Sound like the Average Player in a CV Should be able to get 130k Damage.

And this is Bullcrab.

 

This Badge is Meant for the Elite.

Not for the Average Player.

 

And the Elite are Managing to get the Badge Perfectly Fine.

 

 

 

 

 

[_Ezio_]

4 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

1.

Got no Problem on that End.

When I Play CV most People will usually Flee in Panic when I Focus them.

So far the only Hindrance to my Damage Counter is when I got a Competent Team which Roflstomps the Enemy Faster than I can Kill them.

Thanks to that I often get 140k and even 160k Games when I lose. But only 80-100k Games when I win lol.

 

2.

My Mistake. I somehow tought they were Faster.

I wonder if I mixed it up with some other Carrier ??

Still 6km Range means they can Drop from fairly Far Away if they want.

I often make a Nose Drop on 10km when a Ship is Heading towards me. So I can Crossdrop in afterwards.

 

3.

Yes. And Just as Dangerous.

Because if you Hit outside the Torpedo Bulges the Damage can Increase to that of a Citadel Pen from said BB.

GZ still has 5k Damage on Torps. Which means a Cruiser or AP Bomber Citadel Penetration.

While Shokaku got over 7k and Haku even 9k thus providing enough to Equal a BB Citadel Penetration.

 

Add to that the Flooding Chance and this is far from Nothing.

 

 

 

When you Nerf OP things you dont Compensate it with a Buff.

The Intention of Nerfing a Ship is to make it Weaker so it Stops being Overpowered.

If you Buffed it and Compensated the Nerf it would be Meaningless to Nerf it in the First Place.

 

 

130k for CVs

108k for BBs

95k for Cruisers

65k for DDs

Of Average Damage.

 

 

Are the Values Required for the Highest Possible Badge.

The Elite Forces Badge which is Supposed to only be Granted to the Best Players of the Class.

 

Then how about we Compare that with the Actual Values.

 

The Top 5% of each Class Score.

(Using the Average of the Top5% Players taken for All T10 Ships for each Class)

 

150k for CVs

132k for BBs

106k for Cruisers

86k for DDs

Of Average Damage.

 

Which Means that the Elite Players Supposed to get this Batch. Are Perfectly Capable of getting the Badge for their Respective Class.

 

 

 

The Problem is.

That our Friend AirSupremacy there.

Is trying to make it Sound like the Average Player in a CV Should be able to get 130k Damage.

And this is Bullcrab.

 

This Badge is Meant for the Elite.

Not for the Average Player.

 

And the Elite are Managing to get the Badge Perfectly Fine.

 

 

 

 

 

Not argueing with that. I trained hard in my CV to get the 130k badge. But I am certain that in the old RTS system it used to be 135k or 140k avg dmg and not just 130k. 

[AirSupremacy]

Congrats to your emblem dear @_Ezio_

 

Link to an emblem screenshot from January 12, 2018

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/147751-requirement-of-emblem/

 

Wishing you a nice time in the game

 

 

2 hours ago, _Ezio_ said:

Not argueing with that. I trained hard in my CV to get the 130k badge. But I am certain that in the old RTS system it used to be 135k or 140k avg dmg and not just 130k.  

 

[El2aZeR]

2 hours ago, _Ezio_ said:

But I am certain that in the old RTS system it used to be 135k or 140k avg dmg and not just 130k. 

 

Nope, nothing has changed in that regard.

[fumtu]

SuntsMan video about changes to AA in 0.8.5

 

 

[mcboernester]

13 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

I mean, on the other hand it's a relative buff to the Enterprise. AGAIN.

 

It really is a miracle wg fails to see it. The last patch basically made Enterprise the best carrier in the game, including T10. This will strenghten her kit even further. 

 

Nevertheless the thing that still rings in my mind: didnt they sell the premium cvs with the term "finished"? 

[Yedwy]

Xe, Xe, Xe I wonder where all those guys proclaiming before 0.8.0 all balancing would be finalised in 2 months tops are gone nowdays 

[Panocek]

44 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

Xe, Xe, Xe I wonder where all those guys proclaiming before 0.8.0 all balancing would be finalised in 2 months tops are gone nowdays 

Busy counting all the premium CV sale dollars