CV Rework Discussion

[KillStealBoss]

4 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

 

 

 

 

Get the context. I commented the post with the video. In the video the guy is complaining about the CV in his bb. He would be spotted anyways most of the time. But the CV took a whole match for doing 30k damage. So I can't see why he is complaning.

Because most of the people get mad when they can’t run away from something that they can’t return fire . Thats why they become mad. When a BB gets too close to Harugumo or a Worcester and has less than 50% hp, can’t run away in time plus can’t return fire back, he gets ultra mad. 

[Hundigo]

14 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

*SNIP*.

WG sells stuff and i buy it. If they change it so much that i don't like the product anymore i have still played it before the changes happend and can decide to keep it or refund it for doubloons.

It wouldn't make sense to give cash refunds for something i played while availible as advertised but they give doubloon instead so you can get yourself another product for the same worth.

Even if WG breaks a law here it's then my fault to do business with them if i knowinly agree to such an offer right?

I mean why would i buy something just to point out afterwards that they have to refuns me, why buy it in the first place?

*SNIP*

 

You may agree with WG and buy stuff from them. No one is stopping you from that. But yes, WG is breaken the law when they changed the stuff you purchased from them and so they have to 'refund' you correctly for it. 

 

You self already agreed for us and for your self you would accept any refund of WG, even it is only doubloons for it. But that doesn't mean all the others have to accept it also. 

And it's not that WG isn't totally correct in that alone, I showed already that WG violated already other law's. 

 

It was not your fault to do business with WG , but that doesn't mean that all the rest has to accept what WG is offering as refund for example for it. That's also their right and you have to respect that also. We all know already and you confirmed it already here again, refund in doubloons is fine for you, no matter what the changes are. But it doesn't mean all the rest has to do the same like you. 

 

Another example; we all know you like to play CV's. Not because the rework , but even before. A lot of players doesn't. I self I'm one of them. I've tried the CV's before the rework, but it couldn't appeal me. I also played them after the rework, but still they couldn't appeal me because I never accepted for myself the impact I have on the game even I self I'm a totally potato with them. For the record, I'm mostly potato player with no matter what class. Even I don't have any decent winrate and etcetera, it doesn't mean I didn't had fun in the game. It's all gone now. 

 

And for the record, I self never buyed any premium CV, neither in the past, neither with the rework. I however bought premium DD's mostly and a few other ships like the Atago and the Texas. The Jean Bart I had from the amount of coal I've saved during the game. With the DD's it's actually not playable anymore. And even I have a nice number of games, I only have the tier 10 shima and the tier 10 Yeayang. The Salem I also saved for it ingame. I don't have any other tier 10 ships in my collection. 

 

And if you would talk about the CV rework ? I already asked , what counter other classes has against a CV at a moderator. He had to admit, their is none, the game is designed with the rework that CV's can hit any target with the only purpose to attrackt more CV players in the game. 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

6 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Because most of the people get mad when they can’t run away from something that they can’t return fire . Thats why they become mad. When a BB gets too close to Harugumo or a Worcester and has less than 50% hp, can’t run away in time plus can’t return fire back, he gets ultra mad. 

But putting that into a video is pretty weird. "I am mad, because a CV bombed me for 20 minutes with 30k damage"

I mean, if there would be instead of the CV a bb, that gives im a good broad side, then it would be okay xD

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

2 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I wish you said something new.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 20 Minuten, Hundigo sagte:

You may agree with WG and buy stuff from them. No one is stopping you from that. But yes, WG is breaken the law when they changed the stuff you purchased from them and so they have to 'refund' you correctly for it. 

 

You self already agreed for us and for your self you would accept any refund of WG, even it is only doubloons for it. But that doesn't mean all the others have to accept it also. 

And it's not that WG isn't totally correct in that alone, I showed already that WG violated already other law's. 

 

It was not your fault to do business with WG , but that doesn't mean that all the rest has to accept what WG is offering as refund for example for it. That's also their right and you have to respect that also. We all know already and you confirmed it already here again, refund in doubloons is fine for you, no matter what the changes are. But it doesn't mean all the rest has to do the same like you. 

 

Another example; we all know you like to play CV's. Not because the rework , but even before. A lot of players doesn't. I self I'm one of them. I've tried the CV's before the rework, but it couldn't appeal me. I also played them after the rework, but still they couldn't appeal me because I never accepted for myself the impact I have on the game even I self I'm a totally potato with them. For the record, I'm mostly potato player with no matter what class. Even I don't have any decent winrate and etcetera, it doesn't mean I didn't had fun in the game. It's all gone now. 

 

And for the record, I self never buyed any premium CV, neither in the past, neither with the rework. I however bought premium DD's mostly and a few other ships like the Atago and the Texas. The Jean Bart I had from the amount of coal I've saved during the game. With the DD's it's actually not playable anymore. And even I have a nice number of games, I only have the tier 10 shima and the tier 10 Yeayang. The Salem I also saved for it ingame. I don't have any other tier 10 ships in my collection. 

 

And if you would talk about the CV rework ? I already asked , what counter other classes has against a CV at a moderator. He had to admit, their is none, the game is designed with the rework that CV's can hit any target with the only purpose to attrackt more CV players in the game. 

 

What is counter? Is that some kind of immunity? If every ship had the capability to be immune due to a counter then how is the CV supposed to deal damage?

 

How does a BB that is alone counter a DD which is alone?

 

How does a DD counter a 12km radarship with rpf?

 

 

I will not argue about WG offers anymore btw. Obviously just because i like/dislike something others might not share that view. Never did i say they had to. Neither liking/disliking something turns the point into a fact.

Just because i like the CV rework doesn't mean it's factually fine as for people who dislike it it doean't mean that it's unfixable.

 

So again what will you do about it being that way? Argueing about the same thing won't turn anything around magically.

 

[Sunleader]

44 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

But what does that have to do with the balance of the game?

I am not WG, what you are explaining to me is completely useless information for me because i don't care and even if i cared i wouldn't be able to change any of it.

WG sells stuff and i buy it. If they change it so much that i don't like the product anymore i have still played it before the changes happend and can decide to keep it or refund it for doubloons.

It wouldn't make sense to give cash refunds for something i played while availible as advertised but they give doubloon instead so you can get yourself another product for the same worth.

Even if WG breaks a law here it's then my fault to do business with them if i knowinly agree to such an offer right?

I mean why would i buy something just to point out afterwards that they have to refuns me, why buy it in the first place?

WG has stated that balancing is aimed for completion towarda 8.4 on their roadmap.

The possibly last changes to Prem.CV happen with that patch and those changes aren't even adressing the prem CVs directly.

 

So where is the issue?

Is this a new way of saying the CV rework is flawed? If it is then i congratulate you for actually not repeating something but actually saying something new. Doesn't mean that it has or will have any impact on my opinion which stays the same. Which doesn't even matter.

 

So, what's the plan?

Will we still continue talking about how WG does business or are we going to repeat all the points about CVs being OP again?

 

 

11 minutes ago, Hundigo said:

You may agree with WG and buy stuff from them. No one is stopping you from that. But yes, WG is breaken the law when they changed the stuff you purchased from them and so they have to 'refund' you correctly for it. 

 

You self already agreed for us and for your self you would accept any refund of WG, even it is only doubloons for it. But that doesn't mean all the others have to accept it also. 

And it's not that WG isn't totally correct in that alone, I showed already that WG violated already other law's. 

 

It was not your fault to do business with WG , but that doesn't mean that all the rest has to accept what WG is offering as refund for example for it. That's also their right and you have to respect that also. We all know already and you confirmed it already here again, refund in doubloons is fine for you, no matter what the changes are. But it doesn't mean all the rest has to do the same like you. 

 

Another example; we all know you like to play CV's. Not because the rework , but even before. A lot of players doesn't. I self I'm one of them. I've tried the CV's before the rework, but it couldn't appeal me. I also played them after the rework, but still they couldn't appeal me because I never accepted for myself the impact I have on the game even I self I'm a totally potato with them. For the record, I'm mostly potato player with no matter what class. Even I don't have any decent winrate and etcetera, it doesn't mean I didn't had fun in the game. It's all gone now. 

 

And for the record, I self never buyed any premium CV, neither in the past, neither with the rework. I however bought premium DD's mostly and a few other ships like the Atago and the Texas. The Jean Bart I had from the amount of coal I've saved during the game. With the DD's it's actually not playable anymore. And even I have a nice number of games, I only have the tier 10 shima and the tier 10 Yeayang. The Salem I also saved for it ingame. I don't have any other tier 10 ships in my collection. 

 

And if you would talk about the CV rework ? I already asked , what counter other classes has against a CV at a moderator. He had to admit, their is none, the game is designed with the rework that CV's can hit any target with the only purpose to attrackt more CV players in the game. 

 

 

 

Ok.

I am going to Cut in here.

 

 

Pls note. (Legal Disclaimer)

This is no Legal Advice and I am not a Lawyer.

 

 

1.

In the EU there is a Refund Law.

Any Customer in the EU has the Right to Withdraw from a Purchase or Contract within a certain timeframe for no Reason and with no Requirements.

This Law in Fact Dictates that if the Right is used. The Buyer is Returned his Money.

 

So if the Customer demands his Money back.

WG has to Return that Money.

 

And this Law is in Fact Absolute.

So WG putting a clause in which says that you cant be Reinbursed is Invalid and wont hold before Court.

 

So if the Purchase is less than the alotted Time.

It can be called back.

 

BUT.

WG can in Fact Ban you for this.

Because WG is Free in its Decision to whom they Provide Service.

And if you break the Agreement with them by demanding Money Back after use.

Then while WG is Forced to abide.

WG can Deny you future Service and Ban you.

 

 

2.

In the EU there is a Law against a practice where Shops raise the Price of a Product and then Slap a Discount on it to bring it down towards the old Price while putting a 40% Off Sign at it.

 

This is Deceptive because People are attracted by the Discount which is not really a Discount.

And that is a Punishable Offense.

 

So if WG indeed put a 40% Discount on something and that thing is only 5% below the Price it had the last 2 Months.

Then this can in Fact mean Trouble.

 

But there is further stuff to be considered here.

So its not easy to Judge before a Court actually Investigates it.

 

 

3.

What there is absolutely not.

Is any Right of Reinbursement for Gameplay Changes, Balancing or for Stuff you Bought Months ago.

 

In Fact.

WG could simply take away all Premium Ships you bought last year without any Compensation.

 

They would never do that cause the Media Backlash and Public Opinion would be Devastating.

So you will get some sort of Compensation.

And usually a Generous one.

But Legally you would have no Recourse here.

 

Because the Contract you agreed to clearly States that the Game might change in the Future.

And a Developer is Free on how his Game is Developed.

As the Game itsekf is Free to Play you have no Right on the Service being Provided either.

 

 

 

 

And now.

Lets return to the CV Topic pls.

Because this Discussion will not lead anywhere.

 

 

Greetz Sun

 

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

What is counter? Is that some kind of immunity? If every ship had the capability to be immune due to a counter then how is the CV supposed to deal damage?

 

How does a BB that is alone counter a DD which is alone?

 

How does a DD counter a 12km radarship with rpf?

 

 

I will not argue about WG offers anymore btw. Obviously just because i like/dislike something others might not share that view. Never did i say they had to. Neither liking/disliking something turns the point into a fact.

Just because i like the CV rework doesn't mean it's factually fine as for people who dislike it it doean't mean that it's unfixable.

 

So again what will you do about it being that way? Argueing about the same thing won't turn anything around magically.

 

 

1.

BB usually turns away from the DD and either Caps or moves towards the DD to take the Hit and then Delete him.

 

2.

Usually by baiting him into using the Radar and then Attacking while its on Cooldown.

But also by simply using Cover so despite being Spotted you cant be Attacked.

 

3.

Apparently he thinks that he can try to put a legal measure into not Disadvantaging DDs because this is not what he Bought back in the Day.

Thus WG reducing the Value of a Product he bought or preventing its use.

 

Of course thats Futile.

Because even if he managed to win on court and get a refund forced through by the court.

WG would simply refund him the money and then just exclude him from Future Service and nothing would change in the wider view.

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 3 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

1. 

BB usually turns away from the DD and either Caps or moves towards the DD to take the Hit and then Delete him. 

I will not quote the reply towards radar cruiser counter as it will mostly be the same answer.

 

These actions take alot of time. The BB turning away or changing course to dodge torpedos. The DD repositioning and launching, giving chase/ kiting and until either of those ships is not under each others influence a good amount of time actually passes.

 

If a CV however interacts with a target ship the interaction between that attack squadeon and the ship usually is very short.

So one could argue that a lone DD vs a lone BB influences that BB for a more prolonged time where attention needs to be paid then a CV would and a DD also presents an advantage and higher dmg potential in a single alpha hit then a CV could bring to the table.

The DD punishes mistakes harder too.

 

Of course the CV after the first attack can return with another squadron initiating the engagement again with it's effectiveness rising with the amount of times the engagement is started again which the DD can not do.

The difference now is that CV usually gets guaranteed damage off which is usually way lower then a DD potential damage on a successful punish.

Even if the CV punishes a misplay the alpha is not really much higher and the resulting dot dmg is 100% healable if consumeables are availible.

 

So a DD after chasing a lone BB for 3 - 4 minutes could potentially kill it or at least injure it. Rarely a BB can leave this engagement without injury or with having killed the DD.

The DD may or may not be able to press on the attack depending on the position reached on the map (exception ocean)

 

A CV after attacking a lone BB for 3 - 4 minutes could potentially kill it only under severe misplay on the BBs part or VERY favoreable RNG.

The BB will not leave the engagement without moderate injury.

The CV can press on easily after 3 - 4 minutes continueing the attack.

The BB can not injure the CV back without severe CV misplay.

 

 

So if we compare them, it's very similiar with the CV having the advantage if it's a prolonged engagement and the advantage of guaranteed damage regardless of mitigational movement/manual AA of the BB.

But the BB as a moving target can still cover certain distances and fullfill objectives (blocking a cap, capping if not attacked) while the CV to be able to do the same takes severe risks if untis like said BB are opposing it.

 

Also if mitigational movement combined with manual AA management is on point (BB) the CVs strike capability over time can be lessened to make it more costly than it would be for example for a DD to continue on.

A DD vs a BB can also after forcing the BB to alter it's position remove itself from the engagement and start capping with an advantage. The CV can remove it's influence over the BB to another target if availible but can't do much more then that making jt dependend on the damage dealt.

The CV hull can be used to secure objectives too but only under severe risk.

 

Same as a DD, the CV provides spotting around the area of operation with the CV having the flexibility to change the area of operation more quickly then a DD but with the disadvantage of not being able to secure objectives that way.

The CV also is not capable of spotting torpedos or any kind of smoke fire spotting/ proximity spotting via aircraft.

 

And the last point that is needed to be considered is that CVs (t10, most powerful) are usually 1 CV per team and in rare cases 2 per team.

If that one CV needs without the support of it's team under average conditions around 5 minutes to kill a BB if said BB is not able to correctly mitigate it's damage, imagine how well the stars need to align to spread meaningful damage to multiple targets of the enemy team to influence the outcome without the rest of the teams input.

The posted screenshot is my Yamato vs 2 below average t10 CVs. My mitigation skills are exceptional since i am a CV player myself and the results may indicate that i was pretty muvh immune. It was on the map Okinawa while my Yamato was positioned in between the two middle islands right in the middle of B. Isolated without any aa cruiser support. Basically the most ideal target for 2 enemy t10 CVs (Midway/Hakuryo).

This outcome would have not been possible with above average CV players on the enemy team but it tells that CV if misplayed is not as powerful as many make it to be which is important to consider while arguing about "counterplay" as there will always be more or less of that availible depending on the opposing players skill.

[Hundigo]

46 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

* SNIP *

 

3.

Apparently he thinks that he can try to put a legal measure into not Disadvantaging DDs because this is not what he Bought back in the Day.

Thus WG reducing the Value of a Product he bought or preventing its use.

 

Of course thats Futile.

Because even if he managed to win on court and get a refund forced through by the court.

WG would simply refund him the money and then just exclude him from Future Service and nothing would change in the wider view.

 

Wrong in that. See your own previous post. Media Backlash and Public opinion would be Devastating. 

WG can never prevent it that it would go public, just by the simple fact that any courtroom judicial act is public. 

 

What is for sure, that WG shall never agree with Love&Peace and with all the posts she/ he writes that players has to quit the game when they are not satisfied with it anymore. WG shall just put their best lawyers on it , just to prevent that the courtroom and the European Gouvernement would be not the once that would accept that it would be the policy from WG in it. Because it would even harm them more if the courtroom and the European Gouvernement would accept that as the only answer from WG for it.

 

The CV rework failed because for the moment it's just in the benefit of the CV players. For WG it was even a higher revenue because they could put some ships from the past , like the Graff Zeppelin, back on sale.

 

It is not me or the other players that claimed that the CV rework was balanced and WG started to sell the premium CV's. And ones the sales period is over to change it back with the only option to 'nerf' the premium CV's and the other CV's. And just with the reason; it wasn't balanced yet, we had to something against the CV versus DD fights you know.

 

And that's just the fact; WG can never ban me, even I would claim my customers rights. That's just the case, their  Eula or contract , may not be in conflict with any customers rights of the users country laws or European laws.  And it doesn't care if I'm still a user of their "service" like you describe. I refer to the Switserland customer of Facebook. He had a case against Facebook and won it also, even he was still a user of Facebook. No one could prevent him from using Facebook and Facebook self never proclaimed in courtroom or at the European Gouvernement that they would ever ban that user. Not even when he won that case against Facebook. 

 

It would be the same here, WG shall only proclaim that they took actions against that employee of Gamesupport that wrote me that message. But WG shall never in a courtroom or everywhere else that this would be the policy of the company. 

 

And you don't know me at all. I never claimed any refund at all. It's just that WG is violating several laws and I'm reacting against it. If it would be played verry hard then you may blame Gamesupport and Community employee MrConway for it. 

 

You are indeed verry sure that the case with the prices for ingame goods violates the European laws. The rest also, I can assure you that . 

 

And it's not that Love&Peace would accept a refund in doubloons for the 150€ she/ he spend on the game for CV premiums that all the others has to do it also. 

 

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Well Hundigo, i never said players who dislike the game "have" to leave but that they should leave if they use what they dislike about the game to justify toxicity towards other players.

 

The rest of what you are saying is your issue and has nothing to do with the rework or balance of CVs.

 

[Hundigo]

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Well Hundigo, i never said players who dislike the game "have" to leave but that they should leave if they use what they dislike about the game to justify toxicity towards other players.

 

The rest of what you are saying is your issue and has nothing to do with the rework or balance of CVs.

 

yes you wrote exactly that way, players had to quit the game when there wouldn't be satisfied anymore .

 

CV's aren't balanced yet, I wrote that also in the past and WG self is also confirming it. That's why they have the upgrade 08.04 and if you would have read the develop team blog, you would know that WG is experimenting with the 4 seasons weather as a solution to bring some balance in the current game. It would for WG prevent CV's from perma spotting and to decrease the amount of damage or decrease the focus on the DD's as example. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 14 Minuten, Hundigo sagte:

yes you wrote exactly that way, players had to quit the game when there wouldn't be satisfied anymore

Quote me on that. Show that i wrote that.

 

and yes, i know as i have said a million times already that CVs are still being balanced. You are once again just repeating what we already know.

[Hundigo]

That's already the opposite from you and WG. You say that CV's still being balanced , WG wrote that CV's where balanced for them and so WG launched the CV premium sales 

 

The other post you asks, I shall do that tomorrow. I'm not gonna spend my time now to read all the posts again from you. I know I even answered you already on it and that you came up with the explaination ' it was for the toxic players'. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Here are some of Sub_Octavians replies to reddit users.

Have fun with them

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Here is an excellent reply of @Commander_Cornflakes

towards people who accuse him of hypocrisy. Basically what happen is that on stream they were up against a team with a Midway player who decided to focus WG only.

The Reddit Community celebrates this Midway despite the Midway losing the game saying WG would taste their own medicine now.

 

Commander Cornflakes gives a rply that indicates that they very well know abot how effective a Midway could be if played in the right hands and that the Midway that attacked them commited mistakes which lost it the game.

Commander Cornflakes and the rest of WG aren't as clueless as half of the haters spew but noone wants to hear that right because even after things lead to wins one thing still needs to be answered right?

 

"☆BUT WAS IT FUN?!☆"

yes, winning is fun

[Hundigo]

38 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Here are some of Sub_Octavians replies to reddit users.

Have fun with them

 

 

You really think that's the answer for everything in this topic ? We all know for WG all is fine. It was even super fine when they've launched the CV rework, but heck they had already to do a "hotfix" after just 7 days they've launched the CV rework. 

 

Let me give you an example;  Before the rework we had also games where CV's where involved. I never had problems with , neither as DD player, neither as BB player. 

I only knew, when I was sailing a german BB, that I would say, it's gonna be tough time for me  with the CV also in the game. Not the CV self, it was just that my german BB couldn't turn fast enough to avoid a CV torpattack. 

. 

If you would check my post from the past; I self never have any problems that a CV could harm me not even with the CV rework. As DD player I can also take in some cases a DD out by a single torp hit. But that is counter, because the opponent DD can do that also to me. It's fair for me, because the opponent can do the same what I wish to do to him/her in the game. And before the rework, I would as DD player focus on the CV if he/she was in the game. 

 

 ,

With the CV rework I self can't do a thing against any CV attack; And it's not only one, in the none tier 10 games, you are stucked with 2 CV's each game. ,  for WG all was fine, untill they finally have to admit that they have to change some gamemechanics again, now just on purpose to solve the issue CV's versus DD's fights. I as DD player has to experience these stuff already for 5 full months. WG proclaims that with 08.04 upgrade, things shall be solved .  I doubt about it, but I shall see next week. If it isn't a solution for the problems other surface ships has in the game, then yes, I also gonna be out. 

 

It's not that big amount , also your words. But that isn't the problem for WG as company. The problem shall be, how many players shall still buy ingame goods ? That shall be the number that counts at the end. If many, like me , stops spending any cent in WG, then they shall change again.  

And if WG shall have to pay a huge amount as penalty for violating customers rights laws, well I'm pretty sure WG shall be a good student and learn verry fast to listen to there customers . See it as an ingame booster, like premium consumables or flags. It helps you to advance quicker you know 

 

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I will not quote the reply towards radar cruiser counter as it will mostly be the same answer.

 

These actions take alot of time. The BB turning away or changing course to dodge torpedos. The DD repositioning and launching, giving chase/ kiting and until either of those ships is not under each others influence a good amount of time actually passes.

 

If a CV however interacts with a target ship the interaction between that attack squadeon and the ship usually is very short.

So one could argue that a lone DD vs a lone BB influences that BB for a more prolonged time where attention needs to be paid then a CV would and a DD also presents an advantage and higher dmg potential in a single alpha hit then a CV could bring to the table.

The DD punishes mistakes harder too.

 

Of course the CV after the first attack can return with another squadron initiating the engagement again with it's effectiveness rising with the amount of times the engagement is started again which the DD can not do.

The difference now is that CV usually gets guaranteed damage off which is usually way lower then a DD potential damage on a successful punish.

Even if the CV punishes a misplay the alpha is not really much higher and the resulting dot dmg is 100% healable if consumeables are availible.

 

So a DD after chasing a lone BB for 3 - 4 minutes could potentially kill it or at least injure it. Rarely a BB can leave this engagement without injury or with having killed the DD.

The DD may or may not be able to press on the attack depending on the position reached on the map (exception ocean)

 

A CV after attacking a lone BB for 3 - 4 minutes could potentially kill it only under severe misplay on the BBs part or VERY favoreable RNG.

The BB will not leave the engagement without moderate injury.

The CV can press on easily after 3 - 4 minutes continueing the attack.

The BB can not injure the CV back without severe CV misplay.

 

 

So if we compare them, it's very similiar with the CV having the advantage if it's a prolonged engagement and the advantage of guaranteed damage regardless of mitigational movement/manual AA of the BB.

But the BB as a moving target can still cover certain distances and fullfill objectives (blocking a cap, capping if not attacked) while the CV to be able to do the same takes severe risks if untis like said BB are opposing it.

 

Also if mitigational movement combined with manual AA management is on point (BB) the CVs strike capability over time can be lessened to make it more costly than it would be for example for a DD to continue on.

A DD vs a BB can also after forcing the BB to alter it's position remove itself from the engagement and start capping with an advantage. The CV can remove it's influence over the BB to another target if availible but can't do much more then that making jt dependend on the damage dealt.

The CV hull can be used to secure objectives too but only under severe risk.

 

Same as a DD, the CV provides spotting around the area of operation with the CV having the flexibility to change the area of operation more quickly then a DD but with the disadvantage of not being able to secure objectives that way.

The CV also is not capable of spotting torpedos or any kind of smoke fire spotting/ proximity spotting via aircraft.

 

And the last point that is needed to be considered is that CVs (t10, most powerful) are usually 1 CV per team and in rare cases 2 per team.

If that one CV needs without the support of it's team under average conditions around 5 minutes to kill a BB if said BB is not able to correctly mitigate it's damage, imagine how well the stars need to align to spread meaningful damage to multiple targets of the enemy team to influence the outcome without the rest of the teams input.

The posted screenshot is my Yamato vs 2 below average t10 CVs. My mitigation skills are exceptional since i am a CV player myself and the results may indicate that i was pretty muvh immune. It was on the map Okinawa while my Yamato was positioned in between the two middle islands right in the middle of B. Isolated without any aa cruiser support. Basically the most ideal target for 2 enemy t10 CVs (Midway/Hakuryo).

This outcome would have not been possible with above average CV players on the enemy team but it tells that CV if misplayed is not as powerful as many make it to be which is important to consider while arguing about "counterplay" as there will always be more or less of that availible depending on the opposing players skill.

 

The Difference however remains.

Even in a Short Engagement.

The BB has to actually make mistakes to be Punished. And it can always counter the DD.

And if its just by not driving straight line and thus not giving the DD any hits without being close enough to be shot at.

So for this Punishment you talk about. He has to take a considerable risk to be punished himself.

 

It is not without reason that DDs are often the first ones to die.

 

 

But there is the thing.

A BB does not need to make any mistakes to be Attacked and Punished by a CV.

The CV can Attack him any time.

At best the BB can make himself a less profitable Target and hoping the CV wants more Damage thus Attacking the closer Target that he can reach easier and bomb in faster succession.

 

And the CV to do that has literally no Risk.

Hence CVs having a higher Survival Rate than all other Classes combined.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Hundigo said:

Wrong in that. See your own previous post. Media Backlash and Public opinion would be Devastating. 

WG can never prevent it that it would go public, just by the simple fact that any courtroom judicial act is public. 

 

What is for sure, that WG shall never agree with Love&Peace and with all the posts she/ he writes that players has to quit the game when they are not satisfied with it anymore. WG shall just put their best lawyers on it , just to prevent that the courtroom and the European Gouvernement would be not the once that would accept that it would be the policy from WG in it. Because it would even harm them more if the courtroom and the European Gouvernement would accept that as the only answer from WG for it.

 

The CV rework failed because for the moment it's just in the benefit of the CV players. For WG it was even a higher revenue because they could put some ships from the past , like the Graff Zeppelin, back on sale.

 

It is not me or the other players that claimed that the CV rework was balanced and WG started to sell the premium CV's. And ones the sales period is over to change it back with the only option to 'nerf' the premium CV's and the other CV's. And just with the reason; it wasn't balanced yet, we had to something against the CV versus DD fights you know.

 

And that's just the fact; WG can never ban me, even I would claim my customers rights. That's just the case, their  Eula or contract , may not be in conflict with any customers rights of the users country laws or European laws.  And it doesn't care if I'm still a user of their "service" like you describe. I refer to the Switserland customer of Facebook. He had a case against Facebook and won it also, even he was still a user of Facebook. No one could prevent him from using Facebook and Facebook self never proclaimed in courtroom or at the European Gouvernement that they would ever ban that user. Not even when he won that case against Facebook. 

 

It would be the same here, WG shall only proclaim that they took actions against that employee of Gamesupport that wrote me that message. But WG shall never in a courtroom or everywhere else that this would be the policy of the company. 

 

And you don't know me at all. I never claimed any refund at all. It's just that WG is violating several laws and I'm reacting against it. If it would be played verry hard then you may blame Gamesupport and Community employee MrConway for it. 

 

You are indeed verry sure that the case with the prices for ingame goods violates the European laws. The rest also, I can assure you that . 

 

And it's not that Love&Peace would accept a refund in doubloons for the 150€ she/ he spend on the game for CV premiums that all the others has to do it also. 

 

 

 

 

Of course they can :)

 

I said you have no Legal means.

Not that you cant shame them ;)

 

But dont expect anything to happen on that shaming.

 

WG is not exactly known to care for such issues.

 

 

 

And you are wrong on one part.

Such a Court Case would be held in exclusion of public.

Companies do have Legal Protections in the EU as well.

And Courts will not let themselves be abused to damage the Reputation of a Company.

Even less when its an Blackmail attempt like this to force the Company to change a part of their Game.

 

In Fact. YOU should be rather careful with your Statements right now.

Because your Statements there could easily be interpreted as Blackmailing and Reputation Killing Threats.

Both of which is Punishable Offenses in the EU as well.

 

Also I am not sure about Moderation in this case.

Because there is also Laws in the EU for any Public Comminication Platforms (mostly aimed at stuff like twitter and youtube but also applying to forums) to prevent Criminal actions including Harassment and Threats including Threats of Blackmail.

 

 

Peace Out.

Finally found out what Love and Peace reminded me off xD

 

 

[Hundigo]

I'm not abusing anything it's just the fact, any courtroom action is public. You are refering to have a case 'behind closed doors,' but that's only allowed when public opinion have made their mind already up and wouldn't accept any legal courtroom actions. Both sides has protection also during trial. But that doesn't mean that WG could ask to have a trial "behind close doors" when it's clear that they violate customers rights like they do with their ingame goods prices. That is a totally violation of the customers rights and it's not that they shall have a case against them for it that they can claim it has to be "behind closed doors".

Second; even a case would be held "behind closed doors" it doesn't mean that the verdict self has to be kept secret. That verdict is Always public .

It's verry clear you are not a lawyer, because then you would have known these differents. 

 

I never treathen them, I make it verry clear with my post that WG is violating the customers rights. And the only option WG has, is  to make that the price for "shipload of credits " shall indeed be 137 + € after the discount period and not 99+€ like they did with the doubloons. That's one of the cases, they did these stuff with the 30.500 doubloons offer, they shall not do it with the "shipload of credits " now. And it's just because I've mentioned it openly. I never treathen WG or blackmailed them. It's totally open for everyone, what I've posted. They can all check on their own account what the discount is, and what the price would be after the discount and also what the price was before the discount. Most doesn't has that part before now, but it doesn't mean it wasn't there. 

And in the future they shall not repeat it. 

 

And I self never bought such a packed, so I'm not complaining for myself or claims any refund for it. 

 

[Sunleader]

40 minutes ago, Hundigo said:

I'm not abusing anything it's just the fact, any courtroom action is public. You are refering to have a case 'behind closed doors,' but that's only allowed when public opinion have made their mind already up and wouldn't accept any legal courtroom actions. Both sides has protection also during trial. But that doesn't mean that WG could ask to have a trial "behind close doors" when it's clear that they violate customers rights like they do with their ingame goods prices. That is a totally violation of the customers rights and it's not that they shall have a case against them for it that they can claim it has to be "behind closed doors".

Second; even a case would be held "behind closed doors" it doesn't mean that the verdict self has to be kept secret. That verdict is Always public .

It's verry clear you are not a lawyer, because then you would have known these differents. 

 

I never treathen them, I make it verry clear with my post that WG is violating the customers rights. And the only option WG has, is  to make that the price for "shipload of credits " shall indeed be 137 + € after the discount period and not 99+€ like they did with the doubloons. That's one of the cases, they did these stuff with the 30.500 doubloons offer, they shall not do it with the "shipload of credits " now. And it's just because I've mentioned it openly. I never treathen WG or blackmailed them. It's totally open for everyone, what I've posted. They can all check on their own account what the discount is, and what the price would be after the discount and also what the price was before the discount. Most doesn't has that part before now, but it doesn't mean it wasn't there. 

And in the future they shall not repeat it. 

 

And I self never bought such a packed, so I'm not complaining for myself or claims any refund for it. 

 

 

1.

You are Threatening to Initiate Legal Action against WG despite with the Declared Target of Damaging WGs Reputation and causing a Medial Backlash on an Issue.

The Demand for not doing so is that WG Changes their Game to Suit your Taste Better and Balance CVs so DDs are not at an Disadvantage in the Game.

 

This is a Blackmail Threat if you ask me Mate.

And Pls Note.

Allegations being True or Correct does not change this being a Blackmail Threat.

If you know a Bankrobbers Identity and Threaten to Disclose his Identity to the Police unless he Pays you or does something for you. Then despite him being a Bankrobber and you Disclosing this Information to the Police.

You can still be Accused of Blackmail and might be dragged to Court over it.

 

 

2.

Actually thats Wrong.

Any Court Cases which Include Sensible Data on Company and Customers can be held behind closed Doors to make sure that Sensible Data of these Companies or Customers is not Disclosed to Third Parties and Public.

As such it is extremely unlikely that this case would be carried out in Public.

Because WG would be Required to Disclose its Marketing Strategy as well as Contract Information and Company Plans. All of which is considered Sensible Data. And would thus result in the case being taken behind closed Doors Mate.

 

 

3.

This is the CV Rework Topic.

So I will not comment on any of the other Stuff any further.

Price Changes and other Practices are Irrelevant to this Topic.

You bringing these up again and again to pressure WG on this Topic despite it being entirely irrelevant to the Topic itself. Only proves further that your attempting a Blackmail here Mate.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

4 hours ago, Sunleader said:

In Fact.

WG could simply take away all Premium Ships you bought last year without any Compensation.

 

Risky.  

 

"...user agreements don't trump consumer protection laws..."

[Allied_Winter]

44 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Risky.  

 

"...user agreements don't trump consumer protection laws..."

While that is true (at least afaik): It is upone the consume to prove that by a companies action the consumer is at a disadvantage.

 

That being said and in tune with Sunleader: Please try to stay on topic folks.

[KillStealBoss]

5 hours ago, Hundigo said:

That's already the opposite from you and WG. You say that CV's still being balanced , WG wrote that CV's where balanced for them and so WG launched the CV premium sales 

 

The other post you asks, I shall do that tomorrow. I'm not gonna spend my time now to read all the posts again from you. I know I even answered you already on it and that you came up with the explaination ' it was for the toxic players'. 

WG didn’t balance the cvs for 100% yet. They are still looking forward to make little changes that help the interaction. I did suggest  fighter planes won’t spot DDs or cruisers a downtown be affected by their AA - they’ll spot just BBs and CVs - and that will last 3 min instead of 1 min and be activated in 5 seconds not in 20. Plus delayed spot for allies about 10 sec will also help the surface ships but won’t make cv game bad .

[MRGTB]

5 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Commander Cornflakes gives a rply that indicates that they very well know abot how effective a Midway could be if played in the right hands and that the Midway that attacked them commited mistakes which lost it the game.

I'm curious? Does he like Cornflakes for breakfast?

[Culiacan_Mexico]

2 hours ago, Allied_Winter said:

While that is true (at least afaik): It is upone the consume to prove that by a companies action the consumer is at a disadvantage.

 

That being said and in tune with Sunleader: Please try to stay on topic folks.

There is a topic in this thread!

[mariouus]

3 hours ago, Allied_Winter said:

Please try to stay on topic folks.

hmm... and here I thought this thread only purpose in life, is do be a dumpster, what admins can refer forum members to, before closing any other topic that as little as mentions a "CV".

 

This thread is in tire need of sub-dividing.