CV Rework Discussion

[Sunleader]

3 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

Of course m8, feel free, plus you're quite good at is and it is a pleasure to read.. Yoouu got most of the things right... I am absolutely  terrible with cruisers, and very poor with DDs (although I am trying to improve here as we speak) and not so bad with BBs (FDG being the main reason for poor T9 stats, that ship is horrible)... But, even as a real surface potato, I dont have huge issues with CVs... honestly... Here is a couple oof games from today, so selection, just a few games from today...

 

 

 

 

Even a potato like me can do decent job, with CVs in the game...

 

 

Well Mate.

I am not too Surprised by that.

 

Because again with your Permission Checking your Overall Stats.

For each of these Good Games.

You also got Games where your Suicide Tactic Fails and you get Killed while doing next to Nothing at all.

Which is why Despite these few Awesome Games where you Pulled out Good Damage.

Your Average Damage is basicly 30-50% of these Matches. Because 1 Game with Great Damage for 1-2 Games with no Damage tends to move more towards the lower Half of your Good Numbers.

 

Of course Driving out Front and then Smoking to Pump a Ton of HE Shells into an Enemy while Throwing out Torps hoping to Sink someone not Changing Course.

Is a Valid Tactic for someone who is Happy to get a Good Game every now and then.

 

But the Tactic has the Obvious Risk of Running into a Radar Cruiser which will then Delete you rather Fast.

Or to be simply Spotted by an Enemy DD before even reaching into Range and then getting Killed.

 

 

But not having Trouble with CVs because your Generally Dead too Fast for CVs to Bother with you. And usually Fight so Close to the Enemy that the CV does not need to Spot you anyways.

Is not exactly a good thing when you want to Argue for CVs not being Overpowered here :)

I mean dont get me wrong there. But if I just do Kamikaze Runs with my DDs. CVs wont be a Problem for me either. But just like you. For each Game where I get lucky and get close enough to Start wrecking Havoc. I would have 1 or 2 Games where I just get Deleted before I even reach the Enemy.

And thats not exactly how you get Further with this Mate. (And its also not really Fun to Die your Way up hoping to have a Good Game  now and then.

 

 

Albeit as I said.

I do cut you some Slack for actually Trying to Check things out.

 

 

[MRGTB]

3 hours ago, ulcusrodens said:

the problem is, CVs have no counter

submarines soon as a counter.

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

3 hours ago, ulcusrodens said:

a lone BB vs a DD is doomed

 

I don't think it's as clear cut as that, I can imagine scenarios where a BB would have the upper hand against DD.

[Pte_Maylam]

I've come to the conclusion that not everyone is fond of this rework; in fact it's not uncommon for certain people to go around telling me I don't deserve to live, that I'm scum, that I'm brainless, that I'm a cancer.

 

I'm a Copper in real life and it's weird because I genuinely seem to get more abuse when I bomb a destroyer that over-extends and has its AA on and then eats a torpedo when it eventually parks up in its smoke than I do when I arrest a gang member for carrying a knife, and it's fair to say that they have a bit of a sense of humour failure when that happens.

 

Have a bit of perspective, maybe? 

[AirSupremacy]

It would be superb if CV`s miss DD`s 95% of the time with rockets and bombs,

then we do not need to waste our time anymore at the capture circles and can focus on munching the BB`s.

 

Submarines will also be welcome, hopefully they arrive Xmas or next year.

Happy WoWs everyone :)

 

[Pikkozoikum]

12 hours ago, Allied_Winter said:

So in conclusion:

 

- He gets focused for almost the whole game

- The CV doesn't manage to sink him with one or two strikes but devotes more than 10 minutes for that

- iChase still manages to dish out 100k+ DMG

- his team wins because the CV ignores the collapsing flank to focuse on one ship/CC

 

Or in other words: One ships "sacrifices" himself so that the reamining ships can pull the team to a win.

The CV often does almost no damage, just a few thousand... Not really effective

30k damage by bombs, torps and rockets ... xD

[samphilconlor]

23 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The CV often does almost no damage, just a few thousand... Not really effective

30k damage by bombs, torps and rockets ... xD

 CV's not really effective? Surely you jest? Why is it then they dominate the charts for experience earned for T8 and T10 despite the low number of these vessels.

 

I don't see anyone complaining  they are OP on damage done, it is the constant spotting and harrassment with no slow down that people are complaining about. Bearing in mind there was only one CV in that game in most T8 games I've had recently there have been two. In terms of overall influence on the game they are too powerful and the argument about how skilled you have to be to get good results doesn't wash either judging by the tables below.

 

A lot of the damage you receive as a result from CV's isn't from the CV but from maneouvering constantly to avoid torps and bombs so it ruins your angling and you take more damaging hits from a BB 20Km away that can magically target you from behind an island as the CV is spotting you.

 

 

[Hundigo]

49 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The CV often does almost no damage, just a few thousand... Not really effective

30k damage by bombs, torps and rockets ... xD

You wish to see all my replays that prooves that no matter what ship you play or what configuration you have for the ship or captain skills that the CV is able to do whatever she/he wishes ? 

 

And I wonder if you really read this forumtopic ? I think you are just a poster but not a reader of it , because a moderator already answered the question of me. He admitted that CV's has no counter because they are designed to have at least Always the possibility to hit any target  . Just for the purpose that WG would have more CV players .   I can Always redirect you to that forumpost if you like   

Read post 3977  

[AirSupremacy]

The spotting is for the benefit of the own team, good CV players would even still be good if they would have the map/minimap removed and not accessible to them. Reducing the spotting range of all aircraft by 30% would be ok IMHO.

As mentioned it would also be great if rockets and bombs on DD attack runs miss in 95% of the cases,

IMHO CV players then do not need to dedicate and waste playtime in and at capture circles.

A plane start delay of 2 minutes would be ok, ships will spread and disperse a lot...and I have more time for the coffee machine.

WG is making the CV`s less and less effective, at some point it will take a toll on CV players.

If there would be less CV players, people would use less AA ships :D ...which would be munchy.

If there is more CV players, then I find its challenging fun to battle the best and to meet average Joe.

Submarines would be a great counter for large vessels, including CV`s & BB`s.

 

Its nearly weekend - BB snack time :)

Enjoy WoWs !

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 11 Stunden, Hundigo sagte:

Really ? Read the posts then in this forumtopic. Even the CV players self admitted that it isn't balanced at all with the CV's and not even after the numerous hotfixes and upgrades. 

So what? The ones admitting so far have only been people with outstanding CV gameplay and people like @Sunleader

who can be considered a fast learner or let's say pretty intelligent which makes it easy for him to perform on a high level for a beginner CV.

Fact is that CV is only op if right player plays it otherwise it's just an annoyance at best. I still have to find one CV player on the enemy team that ever gave me trouble if i played a surface ship.

Btw noone said that CVs aren't "balanced at all".

 

To all the rest, you are again, repeating yourself driving circles with your arguments. Let's say you are all correct. Will you finally move on to say something else or give workable suggestions instead of remove/rerework or continue saying the same things forever?

 

I guess this thread is a simple (keep the complainers happy) kind of playing field.

Bonus if WG would actually poke their head in here and say something like "We appreciate your feedback." every week just to give you the feel that they actually care about your crying.

[Hundigo]

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

* SNIP *

Btw noone said that CVs aren't "balanced at all".

 

* SNiP *

WG did say / wrote that the game was balanced with the CV's, not the players 

 

For WG it was even the sign or best time to release the premium CV's. All was balanced they proclaimed. 

Players bought these vessels, with that knowledge from WG in mind and then too find out it isn't still balanced at all. Now we gonna have the upgrade 08.04 for it, so for WG it's gonna be a test if they found a solution for the CV's versus DD's in the game. Heck, they even have the ranked also in the 'testfase' or 'datacollection' gameplay for it with the 08.04. In ranked they wish to see the data of what influence the game is gonna have when all the participants has to bubble up, (map and objectives is designed for that on purpose) and see what it gives with the CV also as participant of it. I wrote it already in another topic. WG wishes all the players in one Square of the map and see what the result would be for that playstyle they prefer to happen in the game. 

 

Read more posts instead of writing more posts, it can help you to have a clear view on the whole gameplay WG intents to have 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

So what's the problem again with WG collecting data?

[Hundigo]

Just now, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

So what's the problem again with WG collecting data?

That the game with the CV's isn't still balanced yet. But they self proclaimed in the past already that the game with the CV's was already balanced enough for it 

 

You can't claim first ; " all is balanced with the CV's " and then when players bought premium CV's to announce ,1 week later after the sale discount period for premium CV's is over, to have a new upgrade to see if they would have a solution for the CV's versus DD's fights in the game.  And then also to proclaim wich directions they wish to see the game evoluate in the announcments of the defteam blog. 

 

These facts are in totally disruption of each other. You can't first proclaim; all is balanced for us (WG)  and then proclaim , we have some changes because it was necessary for the gameplay 

[___V_E_N_O_M___]

CV threads are being closed at a rate of one per hour, so I will say it here:

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 14 Minuten, ___V_E_N_O_M___ sagte:

CV threads are being closed at a rate of one per hour, so I will say it here:

 

I wish you said something new.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 18 Minuten, Hundigo sagte:

That the game with the CV's isn't still balanced yet. But they self proclaimed in the past already that the game with the CV's was already balanced enough for it 

 

You can't claim first ; " all is balanced with the CV's " and then when players bought premium CV's to announce ,1 week later after the sale discount period for premium CV's is over, to have a new upgrade to see if they would have a solution for the CV's versus DD's fights in the game.  And then also to proclaim wich directions they wish to see the game evoluate in the announcments of the defteam blog. 

 

These facts are in totally disruption of each other. You can't first proclaim; all is balanced for us (WG)  and then proclaim , we have some changes because it was necessary for the gameplay 

So what are we going to do about it?

[Sunleader]

2 hours ago, GTB1964 said:

submarines soon as a counter.

 

Submarines will be Pretty Slow and Likely work like on the Halloween Event.

Which means they wont be much use against CVs.

 

1 hour ago, Operation_Crossroads_1 said:

 

I don't think it's as clear cut as that, I can imagine scenarios where a BB would have the upper hand against DD.

 

Actually it is.

Because 1 on 1 without Danger of Showing Boradside to anyone and the Freedom to move around.

A BB is fairly capable of Evading Torps.

 

And due to the Firepower Advantage the DD must stay undetected if he wants to Survive.

 

1 hour ago, AirSupremacy said:

It would be superb if CV`s miss DD`s 95% of the time with rockets and bombs,

then we do not need to waste our time anymore at the capture circles and can focus on munching the BB`s.

 

Submarines will also be welcome, hopefully they arrive Xmas or next year.

Happy WoWs everyone :)

 

 

CV doesnt need to hit the DD at all to ruin his Game.

So thats Irrelevant.

[Sunleader]

43 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

So what? The ones admitting so far have only been people with outstanding CV gameplay and people like @Sunleader

who can be considered a fast learner or let's say pretty intelligent which makes it easy for him to perform on a high level for a beginner CV.

Fact is that CV is only op if right player plays it otherwise it's just an annoyance at best. I still have to find one CV player on the enemy team that ever gave me trouble if i played a surface ship.

Btw noone said that CVs aren't "balanced at all".

 

To all the rest, you are again, repeating yourself driving circles with your arguments. Let's say you are all correct. Will you finally move on to say something else or give workable suggestions instead of remove/rerework or continue saying the same things forever?

 

I guess this thread is a simple (keep the complainers happy) kind of playing field.

Bonus if WG would actually poke their head in here and say something like "We appreciate your feedback." every week just to give you the feel that they actually care about your crying.

 

Thats Unfair.

I dont want to disagree with a Compliment to me.

But I dont think that learning CV is Hard.

 

 

Albeit thats beside the Point anyways.

A Bad BB Player is a Damage Pinata.

A Bad CV is still an annoying Death Threat.

 

The Problem is that there is no Gameplay involved.

Only the CV actually Plays here.

Because for the Targeted Ship it doesnt matter what action it takes. It cant prevent the drop either ways.

Can only Pray and Hope that the CV is a Noob and misses.

[Hundigo]

44 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

So what are we going to do about it?

Read post 3961, the last part. 

 

I assume you are from Europe ? Because you are on the European server. Make sure your country allows WG , if not, all internet providers gonna have to block any content of WG. And they shall not care that you bought the premium CV's or that you like the CV gameplay on general. 

 

You are the one that wrote me that I would never win it from WG ….   Then how come I can write you here that there's a big chance that WG shall not be allowed in the future on the European internet providers ? Read post 3961, that's a huge violation against European customers rules WG did. And they still do for the moment. You only have to check your "premium shop " button ingame. 

 

"Shiploads of credits" Announced as normall price of 137€, but with discount now available for 81€.  That 81+€ was the Original price , but they announce it now as a discount price of 40%.   It's actually the same price as before and no discount at all , even WG is announcing it that way. So after the 'discount period' the price must be 137 € for it. It never was. They did the same but with 30.500 doubloons on so called 'discount'. After the 'discount' period the price went up to 99€, what was a raise of almost 12% from the price before the 'discount ' period to after the 'discount period'. 

 

Such things are never allowed in Europe , it is equal to misleading customers on purpose. The punishment is verry hard for company's that uses these practice. 

 

What should be correct ? That the prices after the discount period are indeed 139€ and not 99€ like they did with the doubloons . What I descriped in post 3961 

 

That means that WG is raising their prices for ingame goods with 40%, instead of given a discount 

 

We gonna make sure all shall be "balanced" with the other company's that respect the European Customers protection rules 

[Hundigo]

45 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

So what are we going to do about it?

When premium CV's are sold with the argument that all is balanced for WG and so they start to sell premium CV's, then it must be balanced also and not like all the rest to rearrange it afterwards. Because that is in totally violations of the European rules , what by the way even WG has to follow because their HQ is located in Europe and not in Russia. 

 

and it's not about "WE" as I may use the same comparissing like the moderator. YOu did nothing at all, it was me. I doubt that you even would have seen what rules WG violated. 

[Sunleader]

10 minutes ago, Hundigo said:

When premium CV's are sold with the argument that all is balanced for WG and so they start to sell premium CV's, then it must be balanced also and not like all the rest to rearrange it afterwards. Because that is in totally violations of the European rules , what by the way even WG has to follow because their HQ is located in Europe and not in Russia. 

 

and it's not about "WE" as I may use the same comparissing like the moderator. YOu did nothing at all, it was me. I doubt that you even would have seen what rules WG violated. 

 

On the Price thing you got a Chance.

Cause it is indeed against the Laws to run with such Deceptions.

 

On the CVs I fear this wont get any results.

Because what Balance WG Aims for is their Decision.

And no Court will mix into the Freedom of Game Design.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

What does WG prices suddenly have to do with CVs?

I don't care for how much WG sells products, i buy them if i deem the price i have to pay affordable for me. Anything else i don't care about.

 

Also we aren't discussing balancing of Prem.Cv exclusively here.

 

I'm asking is, what are you going to do about it?

Why repeat the same arguments over and over?

Let's just wait out 8.4, see how things develop from there.

Let's see how the second CV line will be made and how the new UK premium CV will fit into all this.

Let's see how CVs influence ranked after 8.4 nerfs are applied.

[Hundigo]

35 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

What does WG prices suddenly have to do with CVs?

I don't care for how much WG sells products, i buy them if i deem the price i have to pay affordable for me. Anything else i don't care about.

 

Also we aren't discussing balancing of Prem.Cv exclusively here.

 

I'm asking is, what are you going to do about it?

Why repeat the same arguments over and over?

Let's just wait out 8.4, see how things develop from there.

Let's see how the second CV line will be made and how the new UK premium CV will fit into all this.

Let's see how CVs influence ranked after 8.4 nerfs are applied.

Well I have to repeat myself, even for you, and even you are active on the forum and assume for others you've read all the posts before you post. 

 

I already told you in the past, with the example that you would accept compansation in doubloons so you could buy for example Camo's with it. That where your words. 

I react it on it with the argumentation that it could be for you fine, but not for all the rest. And that's indeed the case; compansation or refund in real money , what users payed with, should be refund in real money also. And that includes you. If you would use that money to buy ingame goods, either doubloons or camo's directly, then it would be your choice. But when users pay with real money and WG changes the stuff in such a way that previous buyers wouldn't purchased these goods at all, then yes they should be compensated in real money for it and not in doubloons because it's restrict their freedom of spending their money. Compensated in doubloons keeped them stucked at WG. 

And like in my previous post about it. Compensated in doubloons costs the company nothing at all. 

 

And the European rules are verry clear in it, it counts for real goods, payed with money, but also for 'free' stuff , like for example a 'free' to play game. 

 

It was just that announcements and the evidence of what the European customers protection rules are  as respond from me to Gamesupport that their answer was; " if you gonna do that … use your customers rights … we ban you ". 

 

And to make it a little bit further with it, they've treathen me to ban for it, but they never did really. It seems I'm gonna be able to send them the same message as respond , backed up with the European gouvernement and rules. If you (WG ) not respect the European customers protection rules, we shall ban you from all the European servers   That shall be the price WG has to pay , to be so ignarant and self proclaimed righteousness. 

 

It's a golden rule in war; "never under estimate your opponent". It counts also for here , never underestimate the customers for your wargame   They may be a little bit more then you ever assumed

 

And to give you a practice example of it; in my country alone , European gouvernement blocked 1.064 internet sites that sold counterfeith trademark goods. You know what that is ? that is 3 sites each day of the year. Simply because they sold fake / imitation goods. 3 sites each day . They also thought that none would be able to stop them, not even able to see it 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

But what does that have to do with the balance of the game?

I am not WG, what you are explaining to me is completely useless information for me because i don't care and even if i cared i wouldn't be able to change any of it.

WG sells stuff and i buy it. If they change it so much that i don't like the product anymore i have still played it before the changes happend and can decide to keep it or refund it for doubloons.

It wouldn't make sense to give cash refunds for something i played while availible as advertised but they give doubloon instead so you can get yourself another product for the same worth.

Even if WG breaks a law here it's then my fault to do business with them if i knowinly agree to such an offer right?

I mean why would i buy something just to point out afterwards that they have to refuns me, why buy it in the first place?

WG has stated that balancing is aimed for completion towarda 8.4 on their roadmap.

The possibly last changes to Prem.CV happen with that patch and those changes aren't even adressing the prem CVs directly.

 

So where is the issue?

Is this a new way of saying the CV rework is flawed? If it is then i congratulate you for actually not repeating something but actually saying something new. Doesn't mean that it has or will have any impact on my opinion which stays the same. Which doesn't even matter.

 

So, what's the plan?

Will we still continue talking about how WG does business or are we going to repeat all the points about CVs being OP again?

 

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, samphilconlor said:

 CV's not really effective? Surely you jest? Why is it then they dominate the charts for experience earned for T8 and T10 despite the low number of these vessels.

 

I don't see anyone complaining  they are OP on damage done, it is the constant spotting and harrassment with no slow down that people are complaining about. Bearing in mind there was only one CV in that game in most T8 games I've had recently there have been two. In terms of overall influence on the game they are too powerful and the argument about how skilled you have to be to get good results doesn't wash either judging by the tables below.

 

A lot of the damage you receive as a result from CV's isn't from the CV but from maneouvering constantly to avoid torps and bombs so it ruins your angling and you take more damaging hits from a BB 20Km away that can magically target you from behind an island as the CV is spotting you.

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Hundigo said:

You wish to see all my replays that prooves that no matter what ship you play or what configuration you have for the ship or captain skills that the CV is able to do whatever she/he wishes ? 

 

And I wonder if you really read this forumtopic ? I think you are just a poster but not a reader of it , because a moderator already answered the question of me. He admitted that CV's has no counter because they are designed to have at least Always the possibility to hit any target  . Just for the purpose that WG would have more CV players .   I can Always redirect you to that forumpost if you like   

Read post 3977  

 

 

 

Get the context. I commented the post with the video. In the video the guy is complaining about the CV in his bb. He would be spotted anyways most of the time. But the CV took a whole match for doing 30k damage. So I can't see why he is complaning.