CV Rework Discussion

[Hundigo]

9 minutes ago, Coffeephy said:

* SNIP *

 

If there is 1 class in the game that is already TOO popular than that is the BBs. The devs already don't know where to put all those BB-players. And now +/- every game has 5 BB's. That's 2 to 3 BB's too many if you ask me.

If that would be the case ? Then how you describe self the actions from WG to it ? Next week there gonna be around 10 new BB's in the game 

[Allied_Winter]

8 minutes ago, Hundigo said:

I'm not on the NA server, neither I'm  an US player.

I wasn't referring to you as a player from the North American server or being in the U.S. I was referring to you sayin us as in 'us players do such and such'. With the emphasis on the 'US'.

 

9 minutes ago, Hundigo said:

can play against CV's

To a certain degree they can't! It is by design that a CV should at least get one strike of. No matter what. Which I never debated. It is whether this is enough or not. To which my reply was. "Yes."

 

If CVs couldn't get a strike of against a group of multiple ships, there were no reason to play (or at least: attack) with CVs, thus nobody would play them. But one goal was to increase player count. Maybe even willfully accepting that it might have a negative gameplay experience effect on some of the 12/24 players of a team.

[AndyHill]

iChase gets two things badly wrong in that video. First of all, for the life of me I can't understand why he complains about lack of consistency in CV vs ship interaction. It's absolutely consistent. The carrier will get you, no matter what. If that's not consistency, what is? Secondly, he talks about ideas and improvements, when the only thing so far that has any chance of actually remedying the situation is the 45 second delay - and even that's still 19min 15s off the mark.

 

iChase gets focused without any chance for counterplay for what, 12 minutes straight and is not having fun. Well, who would have in that situation? He didn't sacrifice himself for the team either, he never had that choice. He even tried to play super passively and hide - which already is a game ruining situation - and even that didn't really work. It's 100% the carrier's choice. And guess what? When the carrier finally left him alone, somebody else got pooped on instead.

 

The most baffling thing is that somebody somewhere actually thought that that would be a good thing to have in the game. A unit able to crab all over everyone else without counterplay and spot anything that tries to make a move. Basically a perfect counter for anyone trying to play the game. The mind boggles.

 

This is getting really annoying, since I'm trying to kind of run a clan and I'm literally losing people directly because of carriers. And one of those people is now me. I grinded the heck out of the honorglory thing by basically playing Midway, which is pretty much the only thing worth playing if you want to have consistent success. I got Lazo and when I finally got that T8 ship mission, my interest in playing the game basically ended. I'll probably show up to get some of those oil stars during the weekend and I might get that special captain during the next stage of the event, but I don't really play the game for fun anymore, because it really kind of isn't.

[El2aZeR]

6 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

which is pretty much the only thing worth playing if you want to have consistent success.

[Captain_Hook_]

Ichase vid

 

Despite being observed and (t) rolled he survived and made 100 k dam.

His team won.

 

The CV was "useless" by concentrating on a single ship for half of the game.

 

Even not really fun for the DD player, but exact counterplay.

 

Almost the same fun as you have with a invisible DD when you sit in a BB.

 

But the passive "counterplay" against aircraft do not forgive even small mistakes and you possibly pay for mistakes in seconds.

[FooFaFie]

 

51 minutes ago, ulcusrodens said:

lots of players like OP stuff. they have fun with it, apparently

Actually the old CV's did more (or atleast) equal average damage than the current CVs. The old CVs were always seen as OP only unpopular to play. Them being OP was the reason why you couldn't play them in ranked or clanbattles

44 minutes ago, AronForce said:

catering to only one group of the playerbase while giving sh*t to the rest is everything but success

Wasn't it like only 10% of the player base that played CVs  in the old system. And if the rework  was meant to make more people playing CVs  than that would mean that the CV-rework was catering toward 90% of the player base.  So yes I woyld make changes toward 90% of the player base.

 

What did you think would happen when the devs said they would  make CVs more popular. Less CV's in battles?  

43 minutes ago, ApolloF117 said:

Exactly the same logic, carriers are popular cus they are broken and there is no real effective counter to it, put an op ship in the game in any class and you will see the exact same reaction

Than we will agree to disagree...................................................................................................................................... because you're wrong 

 

[Allied_Winter]

1 minute ago, Coffeephy said:

Wasn't it like only 10% of the player base that played CVs  in the old system.

It was even less. WG aimed (!) for 10% players of CVs. Didn't happen (for a multitude of reasons).

 

While I don't know the exact numbers, Sub_Oct acknowledged, that the new CVs are currently played on the LOWER end of the expected spectrum. So according to WG even more CVs would be more solid in the target range.

[ApolloF117]

2 minutes ago, Coffeephy said:

you're wrong

Surely you must know it

[AndyHill]

25 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Even after some small scale carriering I still have some vestiges of a soul remaining, which prevents me from even thinking about owning premium carriers.

[xxNihilanxx]

8 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

Even after some small scale carriering I still have some vestiges of a soul remaining, which prevents me from even thinking about owning premium carriers.

 

Unfortunately, mate I fear that is exactly how it starts. It may just be a few CV games now and then, to see what they are like, but by that point the seed is planted and the damage is done. Over time the, once quiet, voice in your head will become louder and more insistent, gradually drowning out all other thoughts until one day you will find yourself looking at the Enterprise in the premium shop and will be totally consumed with dark ideas. "We wants it. We must have it. My preciiiooouuus!"

[Procrastes]

Just now, xxNihilanxx said:

Unfortunately, mate I fear that is exactly how it starts. It may just be a few CV games now and then, to see what they are like, but by that point the seed is planted and the damage is done. Over time the, once quiet, voice in your head will become louder and more insistent, gradually drowning out all other thoughts until one day you will find yourself looking at the Enterprise in the premium shop and will be totally consumed with dark ideas. "We wants it. We must have it. My preciiiooouuus!"s

I'm strangely resistant then, I guess. The more matches in I play in CV:s, the more insistent my inner voice gets.

"Booooriiiing...  thissss issss booooriiiing.... quit it, we mussst...!!!"

[ulcusrodens]

52 minutes ago, Coffeephy said:

 

Actually the old CV's did more (or atleast) equal average damage than the current CVs. The old CVs were always seen as OP only unpopular to play. Them being OP was the reason why you couldn't play them in ranked or clanbattles

Wasn't it like only 10% of the player base that played CVs  in the old system. And if the rework  was meant to make more people playing CVs  than that would mean that the CV-rework was catering toward 90% of the player base.  So yes I woyld make changes toward 90% of the player base.

 

What did you think would happen when the devs said they would  make CVs more popular. Less CV's in battles?  

Than we will agree to disagree...................................................................................................................................... because you're wrong 

 

1) the old CVs could probably make more damage (they could oneshot other ships, now they can't), but their planes were much more vulnerable to AA, hence they had to plan their attacks more wisely. now a carrier can simply send waves after waves of planes at a single ship until it sinks. rinse and repeat.

 

2) CVs were not popular because they were boring to play, certainly not because they were UP. the complete CV rework maybe made them more fun (but i'm pretty sure that many people preferred the old RTS based gameplay over the current semi-controllable plane game), but the only way they could implement the current single squadron controls was to make each squadron A LOT more powerful than before the rework. thus breaking the already fragile balance between ships and carriers. now CVs are TOO popular, and yes, it's working exctly as intended, but trying to save a class that shouldn't have been put in the game in the first place has been a HUGE mistake.

 

3) well, i'm pretty sure i can remember all kinds of complaints when DDs could perform stealth fire and dedicated gunships could be built up to be a constant pain in the arse of everyone else. still it was much more difficult than simply sending wave after wave from 30 km - but maybe i'm wrong.

[ulcusrodens]

1 hour ago, Captain_Hook_ said:

Almost the same fun as you have with a invisible DD when you sit in a BB.

a lone BB vs a DD is doomed. a VERY good BB player can lure a DD into useless launches, and bait it to get too close for comfort,. but basically DDs are the natural counter to BBs, so it's no big surprise.

the problem is, CVs have no counter and can disrupt the gameplay for every other class, so it's not really appropriate to compare them to anything else in the game.

 

i still have to see a carrier losing to anything in 1 vs 1

[B051LjKo]

On 5/22/2019 at 7:03 AM, Sunleader said:

 

Well.

To begin with I will use his Permission to Comment on his Stats here.

Since he Declared that he is fine with me Talking about his Stats it should be Allowed I hope.

 

Checking his Detailed Match History.

He doesnt seem to really Practice what he Preaches there.

And his Playstyle actually makes Radar a much bigger Danger.

Of course m8, feel free, plus you're quite good at is and it is a pleasure to read.. Yoouu got most of the things right... I am absolutely  terrible with cruisers, and very poor with DDs (although I am trying to improve here as we speak) and not so bad with BBs (FDG being the main reason for poor T9 stats, that ship is horrible)... But, even as a real surface potato, I dont have huge issues with CVs... honestly... Here is a couple oof games from today, so selection, just a few games from today...

 

 

 

 

Even a potato like me can do decent job, with CVs in the game...

 

[ApolloF117]

i can put the ones where i did good in battles with carrier, but that won't change the fact that they're broken class at the time...

in fact, i got bombed 3 times by midway and those were all all +15k hp drops, only reason i could have survived because they were he bombs not ap, and i could repair

[ulcusrodens]

6 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Of course m8, feel free, plus you're quite good at is and it is a pleasure to read.. Yoouu got most of the things right... I am absolutely  terrible with cruisers, and very poor with DDs (although I am trying to improve here as we speak) and not so bad with BBs (FDG being the main reason for poor T9 stats, that ship is horrible)... But, even as a real surface potato, I dont have huge issues with CVs... honestly... Here is a couple oof games from today, so selection, just a few games from today...

 

 

 

 

Even a potato like me can do decent job, with CVs in the game...

 

of course.

BUT, if you look a bit closer at those pics, playing the FDG you were never attacked. (1 downed plane, 0 damage from bombs, rockets or torps). playing the kagero you probably killed those 6 planes while in smoke (54 main battery hits mean quite a long time sitting in smoke for a kagero...). and was probably never really focused on. good games happen anytime (i'm not talking about your performance, i mean that those CVs didn't do much to hinder it)

[EgyptOverseer]

So, since every class has a counter, can someone enlighten me over what is the counter to a CV?

[xxNihilanxx]

14 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

So, since every class has a counter, can someone enlighten me over what is the counter to a CV?

 

 

[Panocek]

23 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

So, since every class has a counter, can someone enlighten me over what is the counter to a CV?

[ApolloF117]

8 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

So, since every class has a counter, can someone enlighten me over what is the counter to a CV?

 

[AndyHill]

In reality and in this game, ships trying to employ that "counter" usually got sunk or damaged without the CV ever being in any kind of risk whatsoever.

[ApolloF117]

4 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

In reality 

In reality carriers needed to launch 100-300 aircraft to even hit something that isn't stationary xD

[Uglesett]

40 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

So, since every class has a counter, can someone enlighten me over what is the counter to a CV?

[samphilconlor]

2 hours ago, ulcusrodens said:

a lone BB vs a DD is doomed. a VERY good BB player can lure a DD into useless launches, and bait it to get too close for comfort,. but basically DDs are the natural counter to BBs, so it's no big surprise.

the problem is, CVs have no counter and can disrupt the gameplay for every other class, so it's not really appropriate to compare them to anything else in the game.

 

i still have to see a carrier losing to anything in 1 vs 1

^^ This.

 

If you are in a Worcester you have some counter to a CV, if you are in a large slow moving BB with poor AA there is no counter. Even in a Worcester the next wave will hit well before your defensive AA has recharged let alone before your heal or repair party. The endless wave after wave with no apparent delay is ruining the game sorry but that's a fact.

 

In reality re-arming and readying planes took hours there was a break in between being attacked in this rework it is more like  a tablet based flight simulator designed to stop the kiddies getting bored on long journeys. It has no place in the main game, the old CV system was preferable and no CV's would be best. The rock/paper/scissors balancing of destroyers, cruisers and battleships works great it is fair and rewards skilled play. The current CV rework plays more like:

[samphilconlor]

1 hour ago, EgyptOverseer said:

So, since every class has a counter, can someone enlighten me over what is the counter to a CV?