CV Rework Discussion

[CptBarney]

3 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

I was thinking about how to give carriers more utility for the team rather than just raw damage so what do people think about replacing the fighter with an air dropped smoke?

Dont worry m8, yorkie and the gang will fill that role.

[Teekesselchen]

3 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Are those your stats in audacious?

How?!

Yes.

First I just killed DDs all game because that's really OP, but it only gave me a ~70% winrate because my BBs/cruisers could still lose the game. Then I switched to targeting the BBs first and my winrate got up to that current level. It forces the BBs to turn around and/or the AA cruisers to fall wayyy back to them for AA support, which leaves their DDs and the caps entirely exposed. You can then go pick off the DDs later. Also prioritise any enemy stupid enough to push in, because that makes them very easy targets and helps out your team greatly.

The rest is about good mechanics to land as many drops as possible, and knowing exactly how man planes you can lose to have enough to the end of the game. Oh and using fighters well - you should not stray too far from your attack path since they are not reliable enough to be worth sacrificing your own damage for, but if you deploy them in the right areas they can hinder the enemy quite a bit. Or leave them over a DD's smoke so your team can kill them if they leave.

 

I think it's pretty easy for good players and ridiculously overpowered. CVs can wreck anyone who actually tries to carry. The only counterplay is blobbing up with your allies to make yourself a hard CV target, so your CV can kill more enemies than the enemy CV.

[1MajorKoenig]

Hi @El2aZeR are you using torp acceleration on your Big E?

[Teekesselchen]

In their news on the new ranked season, WG just casually acknowledged how CVs break tactical variation and force everyone to adapt against a single ship:

 

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Hi @El2aZeR are you using torp acceleration on your Big E?

 

Yes.

 

"A group of ships presents the most difficult target for aircraft carriers".

*laughs in slingshot*

[GarrusBrutus]

2 minutes ago, Teekesselchen said:

In their news on the new ranked season, WG just casually acknowledged how CVs break tactical variation and force everyone to adapt against a single ship:

 

Enjoy the blob-fiesta. In other words: Which team has less potatoes who go solo-yol....

[Sunleader]

31 minutes ago, Teekesselchen said:

In their news on the new ranked season, WG just casually acknowledged how CVs break tactical variation and force everyone to adapt against a single ship:

 

 

31 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Yes.

 

"A group of ships presents the most difficult target for aircraft carriers".

*laughs in slingshot*

 

28 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Enjoy the blob-fiesta. In other words: Which team has less potatoes who go solo-yol....

 

The most Difficult Target for an Aircraft Carrier is pretty easy then.

Cause Torping into a Blob is a pretty easy and Guaranteed way to get some Trop Hits.

And by Spotting the Blob the CV is also Guaranteed absurd amounts of Spotting Damage.

 

Not that anyone with a Brain really believes that CVs arent Overpowered at this Point.

And yes I am including the Guys which are only Playing CVs and keep trying to make Excuses here.

Cause its not that they dont know how Broken and Overpowered CVs are. They just want it to be that way cause they are only Playing CVs anyways.....

[B051LjKo]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

The most Difficult Target for an Aircraft Carrier is pretty easy then.

Cause Torping into a Blob is a pretty easy and Guaranteed way to get some Trop Hits.

And by Spotting the Blob the CV is also Guaranteed absurd amounts of Spotting Damage.

Can you please post a couple of sample videos where you score guaranteed torpedo hits while attacking Tier X blob in Kaga?

[Sunleader]

7 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Can you please post a couple of sample videos where you score guaranteed torpedo hits while attacking Tier X blob in Kaga?

 

You do Realise that I already proved that with Screenshots flying over a Worcester I bombed in between several other T10 Ships dont you?

 

Ah no.

Just like any other Arguments and Contributions which you proved you wrong. You just Ignored it and then a few Pages latdr just Startet posting again as if nothing ever happened.

 

 

I am also waiting for you to Play something else than CVs and Show to all of us how easy it is to Counter CVs....

 

But oh wait.

Your just Ignoring that as well.

 

 

And then you wonder why people dont take you seriously....

[B051LjKo]

Just now, Sunleader said:

 

You do Realise that I already proved that with Screenshots flying over a Worcester I bombed in between several other T10 Ships dont you?

 No, I havent seen that one, can you please post it again

Just now, Sunleader said:

 

Ah no.

Just like any other Arguments and Contributions which you proved you wrong. You just Ignored it and then a few Pages latdr just Startet posting again as if nothing ever happened.

No, simple request, just show us the game with guaranteed hits to blobs, that should not be difficult.

Just now, Sunleader said:

 

I am also waiting for you to Play something else than CVs and Show to all of us how easy it is to Counter CVs....

 

But oh wait.

Your just Ignoring that as well.

 

 

And then you wonder why people dont take you seriously....

I am not, playing as we speak

[_Necropoliz_]

16 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Can you please post a couple of sample videos where you score guaranteed torpedo hits while attacking Tier X blob in Kaga?

It's pretty sad at this point that it requires a Tier X blob to maybe repell a Tier 8 CV before dropping. 

[B051LjKo]

27 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

I am also waiting for you to Play something else than CVs and Show to all of us how easy it is to Counter CVs....

 

But oh wait.

Your just Ignoring that as well.

 

And then you wonder why people dont take you seriously....

Just played a game in Kagero

 

 

 

Not bad for a potato... Time for your blob attack...

 

[El2aZeR]

53 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Can you please post a couple of sample videos where you score guaranteed torpedo hits while attacking Tier X blob in Kaga?

 

Can you tell me why this is relevant since ranked is locked to T10?

[B051LjKo]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Can you tell me why this is relevant since ranked is locked to T10?

Just asking him to support his clam with evidence.... nothing else. Is that to much?

[El2aZeR]

7 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Just asking him to support his clam with evidence.... nothing else. Is that to much?

 

Likewise I can ask you to convince us of the relevancy of your argument. Is that too much?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 17 Minuten, B051LjKo sagte:

Just asking him to support his clam with evidence.... nothing else. Is that to much?

There is no proof needed.

A full Kaga torp squad can have enough health if you dodge flak corretly to tank a wooster and get a drop off to a ship close to that one in a reasonable timeframe with heal enabled.

You get one drop off but loose all the planes.

You need all of them however to tank the dps otherwise you wouldn't be able to do this.

Usually a bad decision to make except for when you are sure you can sacrifice those planes or you csn secure a kill.

[Sunleader]

On 5/19/2019 at 11:03 PM, Sunleader said:

 

Correct.

And that is Incredible Unbalanced and Broken.

 

EVERY SHIP IN THE GAME EXCEPT CVs.

Have to Risk being Damaged themselves in order to Damage others.

 

Only CVs are Basicly the absolute Noob Class which is allowed to have Guaranteed Damage on everyone else while not having to expose themselves to any Risk.

 

 

If CVs are not Exposed to the Risk of being Killed.

Then their Damage Output should be Incredible Small.

 

But thats not the case.

Their Damage Output is equal to the Class which is basicly Visible and Exposed to Attacks at all times and thus is Targeted by most Enemies First.

 

 

 

 

In the Meantime.

I bothered Testing my Luck against a Worcester.

 

 

I on Purpose.

Tried to Bomb it with Each Squad I had.

To See how well they Reach it.

 

And I managed to Reach and Land Hits on the Worcester with Each Squadron.

Unfortunately my Attention to the Worcester didnt Remain Unnoticed by my Team.

And while I cleaned out the the Frederik the Great which was Sailing in front of the Worcester and Annoyed my Bombing Runs. I constantly had the Worcester Scouted.

And then the Worcester got Deleted with nearly 80% left by a Citadel Salvo from our Moskwa right before I managed to get a Good Torpedo Strike going on it.  (As Nicely Shown by the Screenshot.)

 

Well.

At least this had another Nice Effect.

Thanks to the Worcester and other Enemies constantly being Spotted by Me.

I managed to get Nearly 180k of Spotting Damage done on my Account in an Almost Exclusive T10 Match.

 

 

Pretty Nice Match I got to say.

And the First Time I ever managed to really Run out of Planes *gg*

Albeit I guess thats to be Expected when I am constantly Running Planes against a Worcester thats on top Hiding in a Blob for half the Game.

 

Despite that Foolery I still easily Managed to get nearly 100k Damage by the Way.

 

 

 

 

 

[Sunleader]

Sorry for Double Post.

I am on my Smartphone and it somehow bugs out with the other quote.

Not allowing me to edit it properly.

 

 

11 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

There is no proof needed.

A full Kaga torp squad can have enough health if you dodge flak corretly to tank a wooster and get a drop off to a ship close to that one in a reasonable timeframe with heal enabled.

You get one drop off but loose all the planes.

You need all of them however to tank the dps otherwise you wouldn't be able to do this.

Usually a bad decision to make except for when you are sure you can sacrifice those planes or you csn secure a kill.

 

Actually as seen on my Screenshots I could even bomb the Wooster with DBs and still go on.

Its taking a Toll.

But nothing lethal.

With TBs the Heal would likely result in even easier Bombs post the Worcester.

 

 

38 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Just played a game in Kagero

 

 

 

Not bad for a potato... Time for your blob attack...

 

 

Will change in a minute.

Bit tricky on Smartphone.

 

 

 

 

Edit:

Mate no Offense.

But we Talked about Performance of T8 and T10 CVs.

A Game with a T6 CV is not really going to Impress anyone.

 

 

Albeit I am glad you now Started Playing a bit on other Ships.

I look forward to seeing your Reports on T10 Games and Games with 2 CVs per Team.

[B051LjKo]

26 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Likewise I can ask you to convince us of the relevancy of your argument. Is that too much?

The statement is ''please do not underestimate efficiency of AA blobs. '' 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 11 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

Actually as seen on my Screenshots I could even bomb the Wooster with DBs and still go on. 

Yes you also lost a good amount of planes which is the point in Kagas playstyle.

But usually, if you can help it you definetly shouldn't be doing these kind of attacks in the influence of an AA ship like a wooster.

But good efforts.

Well you are aware anyways since you called it a foolery so why am i even saying this to you :)

 

Anyway the screenshot of your divebombers having 5k health left while approaching that wooster. A wooster with DFAA burns through them (healthy aa modules) an 4 to 5 seconds if not faster especially with other ships AA in the mix.

[GarrusBrutus]

50 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Just played a game in Kagero

Posting single games to prove a point is the prime example of framing. "Look the stars aligned just right for me!"

Your average dmg over two games is exactly half.

 

[El2aZeR]

17 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

The statement is ''please do not underestimate efficiency of AA blobs. '' 

 

Which has several counterplay options from a CV point of view.

1. Typically the strongest AA ships tend to need island cover to not get blown into smithereens by BBs. Ironically the very usage of said island cover makes their AA extremely weak even when combined.

2. Slingshots are highly effective in negating AA even if there are multiple ships in the target area.

3. TB heal allows you to press at least one, if not two attacks even with multiple ships in the target area.

4. RFs are typically so fast that the small exposure time to AA doesn't deny a strike even if the squad is shortened.

Among other, more hilarious exploits.

 

So while underestimating AA is definitely a mistake, as is underestimating anything really, AA blobs aren't exactly something to worry about if you know how to deal with them and remain very much in danger of getting struck by aircraft.

[B051LjKo]

1 minute ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Posting single games to prove a point is the prime example of framing. "Look the stars aligned just right for me!"

Your average dmg over two games is exactly half.

 

Well, he asked, and I've played and posted... In the next game I got radared and killed almost instantly. I havent played DDs for a while, but from the few games today, radar seems to be a much bigger problem the CVs... At least in Kagero... I can hide, smoke, dodge... When radared, I cant do anything,and am to slow to run away, so that means basically dance at the 10 km range

[B051LjKo]

9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Which has several counterplay options from a CV point of view.

1. Typically the strongest AA ships tend to need island cover to not get blown into smithereens by BBs. Ironically the very usage of said island cover makes their AA extremely weak even when combined.

2. Slingshots are highly effective in negating AA even if there are multiple ships in the target area.

3. TB heal allows you to press at least one, if not two attacks even with multiple ships in the target area.

4. RFs are typically so fast that the small exposure time to AA doesn't deny a strike even if the squad is shortened.

Among other, more hilarious exploits.

 

So while underestimating AA is definitely a mistake, as is underestimating anything really, AA blobs aren't exactly something to worry about if you know how to deal with them and remain very much in danger of air strikes.

Offcourse there is counterplay ,but the point is, make it as hard for CV as possible. Don't roam around alone, stick together, and make CV pay the price for every damage she makes... And it makes a difference. In a good blob, you can even dodge the flak, you just get annihilated...  That alone is enough to limit the damage of the CV and reduce its impact on the game.

[Hundigo]

5 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Offcourse there is counterplay ,but the point is, make it as hard for CV as possible. Don't roam around alone, stick together, and make CV pay the price for every damage she makes... And it makes a difference. In a good blob, you can even dodge the flak, you just get annihilated...  That alone is enough to limit the damage of the CV and reduce its impact on the game.

Do you actually play the game ?  Or are you assuming that it could go that way (theoreticly)? Ingame it never works that way. 

 

El2aZer made it already verry clear and also others, that for example with a 'slingshot' you pass everyone in the blob and do as CV your attack anyway, no matter who that target is.