CV Rework Discussion

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

43 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

If I was unable to hit a maneuvering target I wouldn't be averaging 30% more damage per game in my Saipan then you in your beloved Enterprise. And you are suppose to be the best of the best.

New player comparing himself to the best of the best and this rework is balanced?

 

I'm giving up all hope for the game.

[AirSupremacy]

2 CV players in action

 

7 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

Whenever I see fake pleasantries like this from such obvious trolls as you and @L0V3_and_PE4CE I just can't help but be reminded of the highwayman scene from Barry Lyndon.

 

 

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, Operation_Crossroads_1 sagte:

I'm giving up all hope for the game. 

Hope can keep you stuck in situations in which you rather wouldn't like to stay.

 

Is this encouragement? xD

[B051LjKo]

4 minutes ago, Operation_Crossroads_1 said:

New player comparing himself to the best of the best and this rework is balanced?

All CV players are ''new'', RTS is gone and will not return... unfortunately, but true....

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

1 minute ago, B051LjKo said:

All CV players are ''new'', RTS is gone and will not return... unfortunately, but true....

 

You do understand that ~ 1,000 battles combined in surface ships is pretty much nothing in this game and most of the players on this thread have that number minimum in each class.

[B051LjKo]

2 minutes ago, Operation_Crossroads_1 said:

 

You do understand that ~ 1,000 battles combined in surface ships is pretty much nothing in this game and most of the players on this thread have that number minimum in each class.

And your point is? I have 2 little battles in surface ships to be entitled to an opinion?

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

8 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

And your point is? I have 2 little battles in surface ships to be entitled to an opinion?

 

Do you think that you are experienced enough in surface ships to have an opinion?

[B051LjKo]

5 hours ago, Operation_Crossroads_1 said:

 

Do you think that you are experienced enough in surface ships to have an opinion?

I think opinions are like edited*, everybody has one.

 

* Language please

[KillStealBoss]

2 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

If it was that easy to do 30K dmg every 1.5 minutes, you wouldn't be averaging 100K in Enterprise, but closer to 300K

Well it depends on game. Some games last 5-6 min. I had 3 games today like this, didn't do even 60 k. 

[KillStealBoss]

2 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Toxicity has no excuses. You can be dissatisfied but being toxic is the wrong way to go about this. And if people continue being toxic they will be dealt with accordingly.

And by toxic i mean: Sabotaging games, being overly offensive ingame chat, being offensive in the forums, deliberately spamming.

This is NOT okay and can not be excused.

I agree. If someone is bothered better to make a break. 

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

7 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

I think opinions are like arssholes, everybody has one.

I think you'll find the correct quote is "excuses are like .........."

 

I don't think you'd see QC being paid £500/hour for their opinions if they all stank.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 3 Minuten, Operation_Crossroads_1 sagte:

I think you'll find the correct quote is "excuses are like .........."

 

I don't think you'd see QC being paid £500/hour for their opinions if they all stank.

please stop now

[El2aZeR]

44 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Not at all, I average a meager 135K for the win rate of 71%... If I could push the limit to 300K, I am sure I would go over 90% in win rate. And I play solo randoms 99% of time.

 

So how exactly does higher average damage lead to a higher WR then?

 

Let me tell you the truth. It doesn't. Average damage is the worst indicator for skill and contrary to popular belief does not make you good at this game nor does it lead to a high WR beyond a certain threshold. Said threshold is determined by average skill in any given game.

Basic example, this guy:

https://wows-numbers.com/player/507353297,avenger121/?type=solo

Has extremely high average damage, enough to be considered one of the best in the game in the ships he plays, yet he earns a comparatively laughable WR. That means his damage is for the most part completely worthless in winning matches as is reflected in e.g. his low kills per match among other things.

300k average damage won't win you more matches than you currently do unless applied correctly. And once you apply damage correctly you will earn a high average no longer since the HP pools of the highest impact surface ships, aka the ships you should target to win, tends to be rather limited. In addition to that killing said priority targets also tends to win matches faster, further limiting your ability to score high damage numbers.

 

Any halfway competent player will tell you that average damage is for the most part worthless in winning a match. 20k damage applied on a T10 DD will do more to win matches than 60k damage applied to a T10 BB.

Or, as we call it in Counter-Strike, it's all about the impact frags. No one gives a  about you if you have 150 ADR (Average Damage per Round) but you get all of that from exit frags in lost rounds. Meanwhile if you have 80 ADR but have won 3 clutches that makes you an infinitely more valuable teammate.

 

The best scenario is ofc to have both extremely high average damage and extremely high impact, but that's something belonging to the realm of fantasy most of the time.

 

44 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Good ones are a bigger challenge, and it is extremely difficult, if not impossible to score 3 x 4 torps in a single attack run.

 

Possibly, since Saipan's TBs are vastly more sluggish and have a higher arming distance. Problems that Enterprise does not have as I wanted to demonstrate in the video.

Lets take the Conq from the video for example and imagine he had turned left as he should have. Because I can see that he's turning left I would adjust my angle and drop further away, scoring at least two hits, then turn left immediately for the cross drop (which I can do due to pre-rework arming distance and superior maneuverability), still earning three hits because he can't adjust faster than I can attack. Depending on whether he keeps turning left or adjust to the right I would turn accordingly for another cross drop and earn another three hits.

It's not that hard since I don't need to give the enemy time to adjust, instead I can reengage immediately. Thus aside from the initial drop any missed torps are entirely my fault.

Hence why Enterprise TBs are superior and, combined with high alpha strike, flooding chance and a vastly superior respawn speed, are arguably the best in the game right now.

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

5 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

I think opinions are like edited, everybody has one.

 

And the difference is that some are worth listening to and some are not.

 

Which one are you?

[xxNihilanxx]

48 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

So how exactly does higher average damage lead to a higher WR then?

 

Let me tell you the truth. It doesn't. Average damage is the worst indicator for skill and contrary to popular belief does not make you good at this game nor does it lead to a high WR beyond a certain threshold. Said threshold is determined by average skill in any given game.

Basic example, this guy:

https://wows-numbers.com/player/507353297,avenger121/?type=solo

Has extremely high average damage, enough to be considered one of the best in the game in the ships he plays, yet he earns a comparatively laughable WR. That means his damage is for the most part completely worthless in winning matches as is reflected in e.g. his low kills per match among other things.

300k average damage won't win you more matches than you currently do unless applied correctly. And once you apply damage correctly you will earn a high average no longer since the HP pools of the highest impact surface ships, aka the ships you should target to win, tends to be rather limited. In addition to that killing said priority targets also tends to win matches faster, further limiting your ability to score high damage numbers.

 

Any halfway competent player will tell you that average damage is for the most part worthless in winning a match. 20k damage applied on a T10 DD will do more to win matches than 60k damage applied to a T10 BB.

Or, as we call it in Counter-Strike, it's all about the impact frags. No one gives a  about you if you have 150 ADR (Average Damage per Round) but you get all of that from exit frags in lost rounds. Meanwhile if you have 80 ADR but have won 3 clutches that makes you an infinitely more valuable teammate.

 

The best scenario is ofc to have both extremely high average damage and extremely high impact, but that's something belonging to the realm of fantasy most of the time.

 

Amen to that brother (or sister - don't want to "presume your gender" - ("Why're you always talking about women, Stan?"))

 

What matters in this game is effective damage - applied to the right ships according to the right priority. That's what wins matches. Not farming 150K fire damage against a Conqueror who is still sailing at the end of the match.

[El2aZeR]

1 minute ago, xxNihilanxx said:

don't want to "presume your gender"

 

 

 

(I'm a dude btw)

[xxNihilanxx]

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

 

 

(I'm a dude btw)

 

In all honesty, looking at your stats, it's more likely that you are an Apache attack helicopter.

[Yamato942]

1 hour ago, Hundigo said:

Why you post my ship and name with your dmg? If you want end result you should just ask?

 

[Sunleader]

2 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

And your point is? I have 2 little battles in surface ships to be entitled to an opinion?

 

Anyone is entitled to an Opinion.

 

But that Opinion being qualified and thus worth listening to. Is a different Story.

 

After the Rework you have been Playing Exclusively with CVs.

And your Skills in all other Ships seem to be pretty poor.

This is further confirmed by your Posts in which you demonstrated that you dont even know the Basics of how other Classes are Played.

 

You have observed certain Tactics and Behaviors. But you dont know the concept or mechanics behind them.

Thus misunderstanding the intention and effect of these behaviors.

 

 

Long Story Short.

You only know the CV side of this Discussion.

You have no idea or experience on the other side of it.

You are trying to argue about something that you have no Experience or knowledge on.

 

So its natural that most people will just dismiss your opinion as useless rambling.

 

 

I suggested before that you Play BB for a week or two.

So you actually get a feeling of just jow frustrating the current Situation us for everyone who isnt playing Exclusively CVs.

 

 

But your ignoring that.

In the End.

My Personal hunch is that you know exactly that you would just be bombed without any chance to do anything about.

You already know perfectly well that CVs are Overpowered right now.

But you refuse to acknowledge it.

Hoping to milk the Situation as long as possible.

 

As simple as that.

 

 

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

 

 

(I'm a dude btw)

 

That makes no sense.

Attack Helicopters are Female.

If your a Dude you cannot be an Attack Helicopter!

[159Hunter]

4 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

please stop now

Watch out when using everyones best friend Google to silence someone  

 

 

3 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

Amen to that brother (or sister - don't want to "presume your gender" - ("Why're you always talking about women, Stan?"))

 

What matters in this game is effective damage - applied to the right ships according to the right priority. That's what wins matches. Not farming 150K fire damage against a Conqueror who is still sailing at the end of the match.

What about the tird gender? You sound a lot like you don't value our third gender 

 

As for the dmg, you are very right. When I look at stats and see very large dmg values combined with normal kill amounts said person is just damage farming/stat padding. Call it what you like. But it doesn't make you win games in the end.

 

@El2aZeR you deserve to go to Gulag, we all know best attack helicopter is Mi-24 Hind. Now go back and correct your mistake filthy capitalist

[mcboernester]

7 hours ago, Alipheese_XV said:

@El2aZeR

After the Yamato example a few sites ago from Teekesselchen we also had the discussion in german forum that the Yamato would have died even sooner in old RTS CVs.

And that's something I can't really belief.

I have at least a decent amount of games in old RTS style up to Haku and more than enough games in Yammi to know, what it meant when Haku or Taiho came for me.

And used DCP management, Heal and most importantly my super torpedo bulge to survive for example 3 Taiho waves.

So why is it that (nearly) everyone thinks that old CVs could kill battleships faster?

It literally took 1 complete strike in RTS. 50k from torps and flooding -> DCP ->  he DB as follow up for 10-30k alpha (depending on nation) and 2-3 fires. Goodbye.  

 

This one's an Izumo but it hardly matters in the end. I prepared all squads, took out the enemy fighters and killed a bb in ~3minutes. What you can argue here:

 

- The Izumo obviously isn't the sharpest tool in the box. No other ships around, no aa spec and the worst reaction you could have done (turning out of torps).

- One thing the rts cv was far superior over the new one is punishing missplays, and the shown is exactly that. imagine a des moines in range , or him turning in instead of out. It was the same as showing broadside to a bb

- If the enemy cv had been better he would have been able to either counter me or at least give me a hard time

- If you would find an isolated BB with these kinda reactions in the new system while on a tX CV it would take roughly 4minutes instead of 3. I'd say 3 torp squads for haku and audacious and 3 db squads for midway.  

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

[Sprockett]

10 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

I disagree... proper maneuvering, even in BBs can mitigate a lot of damage. 

You do not know what you are talking about..

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, mcboernester said:

It literally took 1 complete strike in RTS. 50k from torps and flooding -> DCP ->  he DB as follow up for 10-30k alpha (depending on nation) and 2-3 fires. Goodbye.  

 

This one's an Izumo but it hardly matters in the end. I prepared all squads, took out the enemy fighters and killed a bb in ~3minutes. What you can argue here:

 

- The Izumo obviously isn't the sharpest tool in the box. No other ships around, no aa spec and the worst reaction you could have done (turning out of torps).

- One thing the rts cv was far superior over the new one is punishing missplays, and the shown is exactly that. imagine a des moines in range , or him turning in instead of out. It was the same as showing broadside to a bb

- If the enemy cv had been better he would have been able to either counter me or at least give me a hard time

- If you would find an isolated BB with these kinda reactions in the new system while on a tX CV it would take roughly 4minutes instead of 3. I'd say 3 torp squads for haku and audacious and 3 db squads for midway.  

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I know your Izumo example.

Even I once managed to one strike an Izumo.

But never faced it in Yamato - in all my over 1.000 matches in her.

So should I therefor assume I was the ultra lucky guy to never face a CV unicum in Yamato?

Can hardly believe these odds...

[Sprockett]

i will just leave this here:

 

https://steamcharts.com/app/552990#3m

 

[ApolloF117]

7 minutes ago, Sprockett said:

i will just leave this here:

 

https://steamcharts.com/app/552990#3m

 

everyone having fun with the new update looks like, thats why active player number is droping