CV Rework Discussion

[makhot]

Thanks to the meta and gameplay polished by the CV rework I finally stopped playing around week ago. Excellent choice I must say. I've had much better time without the World of CVs.

 

I hope I would eventually see some positive news regarding this, but unfortunately I'm not too optimistic. Until then; have fun with the balance and being withered down by the unending stream of asymmetric fire starters without any counterplay. 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

2 hours ago, mcboernester said:

I already showed the reason for that a few times. The bottom tier players actually got worse with the new cv concept because they cannot perform autodrops anymore. As a follow up from that you can find various guys with 10-20k average damage on a tier 10 cv. However good cv players still do their thing, most of the time even with far higher scores than on the rts concept, which shows in the PR. Since the calculation comes mostly from 50% dmg done 30% kills and 20% win you can see that the PR for "the same" values as on rts is far higher now ( for example 3k instead of of 2.2k on old system). 

 

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I was speaking as it relates to Tier 4 CVs and whether they are individually OP.  I think one could argue that RTS Hosho was OP, or at least near so, I don't think the same claim can be made with the 0.8.0 version.  Now whether they are 'balanced' is a different issue.

 

 

 

 

				Kills	Damage	Exp
Langley (<30.01.2019)	4	Aircraft Carrier	U.S.A.	0.58	27 217	695
Hosho (<30.01.2019)	4	Aircraft Carrier	Japan	0.85	38 567	744
Langley	4	Aircraft Carrier	U.S.A.	0.52	20 747	671
Hosho	4	Aircraft Carrier	Japan	0.56	22 193	684
Hermes	4	Aircraft Carrier	U.K.	0.58	22 119	688

 

 

 

 

Top 10 players for both Hosho and Myogi

 

 

 

 

 

	PR	Win	Kills	Avg Damage	Max Damage	Avg Exp	Max Exp
1	3 173	61.90%	1.95	45 522	95 038	1 264	2 274
2	3 160	68.18%	1.5	50 270	88 987	933	2 124
3	3 134	55.36%	1.46	51 905	95 572	1 210	2 462
4	3 102	75.00%	1.75	43 495	88 803	1 274	1 951
5	3 040	64.71%	1.47	47 607	101 054	1 320	2 150
6	3 023	78.26%	1.09	50 662	103 397	1 250	2 439
7	2 939	69.23%	1.5	46 214	88 621	1 277	2 164
8	2 901	61.29%	1.65	45 804	95 070	1 019	2 294
9	2 889	62.86%	1.74	42 636	100 564	1 084	1 738
10	2 854	70.83%	1.38	45 042	78 419	1 188	1 837
1	3 715	70.00%	2.4	59 753	113 341	848	1 423
2	3 207	85.71%	1.9	51 688	101 330	1 057	1 687
3	3 124	62.16%	1.38	65 570	130 234	925	1 482
4	3 092	80.00%	1.9	54 507	106 225	1 073	1 684
5	3 063	95.65%	1.61	52 190	105 789	1 123	2 012
6	3 061	55.56%	1.3	61 206	136 582	1 115	2 150
7	3 049	66.67%	1.67	55 089	122 230	933	1 483
8	3 048	81.48%	1.41	57 910	135 303	1 003	2 142
9	3 036	75.00%	1.58	57 991	102 143	1 400	2 544
10	3 009	71.43%	1.38	55 380	109 128	1 100	1 928

[KillStealBoss]

7 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Did you use premium DCP?

And honestly, if you knew the Haku hasn't expended his TBs yet, why use DCP in the first place? Flooding was a much greater danger than fire, if you'd have just used your heal to nullify the fire damage you would've been more than fine.

 

Baiting only works if your enemy actually falls for it. The term itself implies a misplay. It's like people saying "you could just bait DFAA". Well duh, if the enemy is dumb enough to misplay his one button mechanic then he should be punished for that.

Because he got lucky and set 3 fires from bombs (2 middle section and another one on stern) didn't have fire prevention skill back then. I was screwed after all, even not using DCP those 3 fires would shrink me hp so he could kill me / leaving me with really low hp.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, makhot said:

Thanks to the meta and gameplay polished by the CV rework I finally stopped playing around week ago. Excellent choice I must say. I've had much better time without the World of CVs.

 

I hope I would eventually see some positive news regarding this, but unfortunately I'm not too optimistic. Until then; have fun with the balance and being withered down by the unending stream of asymmetric fire starters without any counterplay. 

Haven't touched WOWs all week too, which I didn't anticipate. Apparantly I got bored by playing as a CV main pretty quickly. Well, no surprise really to be fair.

 

Spoiler

 

I honestly can't tell if I'll be firing WOWS up again. If I don't it will be my final goodbye from WG. It's been a great couple of years, playing WOT and then WOWS when WOT lost it's original greatness. Guess WG games have a shell life of about 3 years for me at which point their idea of fun and my idea of fun permanently part ways. WOWP never really enchanted me, mainly because it was a really poor flight game, almost as poor as the CV gameplay is now. I'm guessing WG just isn't capable of making flying interesting.

 

Anyway, enjoy the game for those that can still stomague it, hopefully I'll find the joy of it again, because WOWs and WOT are amongst my favorite games ever. I just love these machines. I might pop in every now and then to 'Enter-sur-prise' you

 

Final CV rework verdict: Nope.

[El2aZeR]

15 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

I was screwed after all, even not using DCP those 3 fires would shrink me hp so he could kill me / leaving me with really low hp.

 

Pretty sure you could have survived even that.

Regardless I'm fairly sure flooding changes would've happened even without the rework so the DCP switcharoo couldn't happen anymore.

 

I'm not saying RTS CVs were without flaws, their list of faults was over a mile long, but objectively speaking they at least had viable counterplay options unlike reworked CVs and as such were more fair than the latter. The primary issue was that no one was applying said counterplay options and that you had to heavily specialize into them. Now people are actually applying the previously effective counterplay options but still get their teeth kicked in while the specialization issue hasn't changed at all.

[Captain_Hook_]

Duplication of a contribution in the german forum. This weekend I tried a bit active air defense , turned on flak when the aircraft spots me in my T22 DD.

Nevertheless, I almost always achieved a rank among the first three of my team, despite beeing almost continuosly spotted.  "Only 2 times killed by  CV. Mostly killed by by ship usually at Airspot on.

Twice I was the last survivor. My teams especially the CVs seemed to me rather bad.

 

  One battle was in a group of four ships. I managed to shot down 24 aircraft , my  3 partners achieved six together. They were  destroyed by artillery.

 

I suspect most non CV players are not prepared for battles against aircrafts and are not acting adequately to deal with the problem.

 

Nevertheless there are shortcomings to deal with the aircraft issue, even you are playing in a  skilled manner or you hope to play in that way.

 

You cannot actively counter the threat . The Cv is able to spot you at will, if a spot once happens, even he cannnot kill or damage you fast, he can hold you open.  Even if you manage to kill all aircraft you dont have the time for repositioning yourself.

About 30 -45 secs later there is a "surprise" incoming, a new fulllive squadron.

 

And the destructive capabilities of a competent CV grow with lesser ships on the battlefield. Strictly my opinion.

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Stunde, Europizza sagte:

Haven't touched WOWs all week too, which I didn't anticipate. Apparantly I got bored by playing as a CV main pretty quickly. Well, no surprise really to be fair.

 

  Inhalte verstecken

 

I honestly can't tell if I'll be firing WOWS up again. If I don't it will be my final goodbye from WG. It's been a great couple of years, playing WOT and then WOWS when WOT lost it's original greatness. Guess WG games have a shell life of about 3 years for me at which point their idea of fun and my idea of fun permanently part ways. WOWP never really enchanted me, mainly because it was a really poor flight game, almost as poor as the CV gameplay is now. I'm guessing WG just isn't capable of making flying interesting.

 

Anyway, enjoy the game for those that can still stomague it, hopefully I'll find the joy of it again, because WOWs and WOT are amongst my favorite games ever. I just love these machines. I might pop in every now and then to 'Enter-sur-prise' you

 

Final CV rework verdict: Nope.

Oh no you got a kraken ☆

What a total desaster ♡

[Sunleader]

2 hours ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

I was speaking as it relates to Tier 4 CVs and whether they are individually OP.  I think one could argue that RTS Hosho was OP, or at least near so, I don't think the same claim can be made with the 0.8.0 version.  Now whether they are 'balanced' is a different issue.

 

 

 

 

				Kills	Damage	Exp
Langley (<30.01.2019)	4	Aircraft Carrier	U.S.A.	0.58	27 217	695
Hosho (<30.01.2019)	4	Aircraft Carrier	Japan	0.85	38 567	744
Langley	4	Aircraft Carrier	U.S.A.	0.52	20 747	671
Hosho	4	Aircraft Carrier	Japan	0.56	22 193	684
Hermes	4	Aircraft Carrier	U.K.	0.58	22 119	688

 

 

 

 

Top 10 players for both Hosho and Myogi

 

 

 

 

 

	PR	Win	Kills	Avg Damage	Max Damage	Avg Exp	Max Exp
1	3 173	61.90%	1.95	45 522	95 038	1 264	2 274
2	3 160	68.18%	1.5	50 270	88 987	933	2 124
3	3 134	55.36%	1.46	51 905	95 572	1 210	2 462
4	3 102	75.00%	1.75	43 495	88 803	1 274	1 951
5	3 040	64.71%	1.47	47 607	101 054	1 320	2 150
6	3 023	78.26%	1.09	50 662	103 397	1 250	2 439
7	2 939	69.23%	1.5	46 214	88 621	1 277	2 164
8	2 901	61.29%	1.65	45 804	95 070	1 019	2 294
9	2 889	62.86%	1.74	42 636	100 564	1 084	1 738
10	2 854	70.83%	1.38	45 042	78 419	1 188	1 837
1	3 715	70.00%	2.4	59 753	113 341	848	1 423
2	3 207	85.71%	1.9	51 688	101 330	1 057	1 687
3	3 124	62.16%	1.38	65 570	130 234	925	1 482
4	3 092	80.00%	1.9	54 507	106 225	1 073	1 684
5	3 063	95.65%	1.61	52 190	105 789	1 123	2 012
6	3 061	55.56%	1.3	61 206	136 582	1 115	2 150
7	3 049	66.67%	1.67	55 089	122 230	933	1 483
8	3 048	81.48%	1.41	57 910	135 303	1 003	2 142
9	3 036	75.00%	1.58	57 991	102 143	1 400	2 544
10	3 009	71.43%	1.38	55 380	109 128	1 100	1 928

 

55 minutes ago, Captain_Hook_ said:

Duplication of a contribution in the german forum. This weekend I tried a bit active air defense , turned on flak when the aircraft spots me in my T22 DD.

Nevertheless, I almost always achieved a rank among the first three of my team, despite beeing almost continuosly spotted.  "Only 2 times killed by  CV. Mostly killed by by ship usually at Airspot on.

Twice I was the last survivor. My teams especially the CVs seemed to me rather bad.

 

  One battle was in a group of four ships. I managed to shot down 24 aircraft , my  3 partners achieved six together. They were  destroyed by artillery.

 

I suspect most non CV players are not prepared for battles against aircrafts and are not acting adequately to deal with the problem.

 

Nevertheless there are shortcomings to deal with the aircraft issue, even you are playing in a  skilled manner or you hope to play in that way.

 

You cannot actively counter the threat . The Cv is able to spot you at will, if a spot once happens, even he cannnot kill or damage you fast, he can hold you open.  Even if you manage to kill all aircraft you dont have the time for repositioning yourself.

About 30 -45 secs later there is a "surprise" incoming, a new fulllive squadron.

 

And the destructive capabilities of a competent CV grow with lesser ships on the battlefield. Strictly my opinion.

 

 

 

 

No.

The Short Answer to both of these Posts is rather Simple.

 

Tier 4 CVs are not Overpowered.

The Reason is what was said above several Times already.

 

 

In WoWs Ships are Balanced in a Simple Manner.

The higher your Risk of being Attacked and Killed by the Enemy when you Approach your own Weapon Range on the Enemy.

The more Damage you are able to do in a Short Time.

 

DDs have to get very close and have very little HP. So they have a Tremendous Risk of being Killed.

Hence they also get an Insane amount of Damage for their Torp Attack.

 

Cruisers have bit more Range and way more HP. But can still be Citadel Deleted by BBs. So they get highest DPS in the Game from Guns.

Thus not having the Insane Instant Damage a DD can get. But still having a really high Damage Output in a Short time.

 

BBs are constantly Visible. But they also Sport Biggest Armor and HP Pool. While constantly being Attacked and being Damage Pinatas for everyone else.

They are somewhat hard to Kill unless you get close. And they got a high Range.

Due to that however. While having Big Guns. Their Guns are very Inaccurate not giving them alot of Damage on High Ranges. (unless your really Lucky) and a fairly low DPS thanks to very long Reload.

 

CVs have literally no Risk of being Killed or Destroyed while constantly having the whole Enemy in Range.

Hence their Damage Output should be incredible low.

So that despite effectively being able to cause Damage for the Entire Match. They should not get that much Damage done.

 

On Tier 6 CVs this actually works Decently for most Part.

They cant be Reached to kill them and they can Harass you for the entire Match if they want.

But due to their Limited Damage Output they can still be Survived and Dealed with.

 

Only on T8 and T10 CVs this Rule stops working.

Because there the CVs suddenly get an Absurd Damage Increase.

With T8 CVs Generally having around 2 Times the Damage Potential of a Tier 6 CV.

And thus completely break the Balance.

 

Tier 4 CVs are actually somewhat Underpowered right now.

Because with their low Squadron Numbers not only is their Potential very Limited.

But they also end up having very low Chance to actually Hit with that Damage.

Because 1 Bomb or 1 Torpedo unlike 2 on Tier 6 or 4 on Tier 8 and 8 (in some cases 12) on Tier 10 is much easier to Evade.

Which means that against Tier 4 and 6 CVs there is actually the Counterplay of Evading Available for other Ships.

 

 

As CVs are almost never Exposed to the Danger of being Killed or Attacked until

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Oh no you got a kraken ☆

What a total desaster ♡

Yeah, no kraken can compensate for lack of fun I'm having I'm sorry to say. So the disaster is on the other end of it ;-)

I have 290 days of premium left I think, so that's a pointer about how dissapointed/bored I am with it curently. I did have some fun in the big E. but apparantly it was short lived. I might be back, I don't know. All I know now is that I can't get myself to open up the game anymore.

 

Sarcasm doesn't suit you by the way :-)

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 8 Minuten, Europizza sagte:

Yeah, no kraken can compensate for lack of fun I'm having I'm sorry to say. So the disaster is on the other end of it ;-)

I have 290 days of premium left I think, so that's a pointer about how dissapointed/bored I am with it curently. I did have some fun in the big E. but apparantly it was short lived. I might be back, I don't know. All I know now is that I can't get myself to open up the game anymore.

 

Sarcasm doesn't suit you by the way :-)

 

It's good you take a break then ☆

Because obviously all other ships are now totally unviable ♡

Also this smiley ":-)" doesn't move me as much as OuO or OwO would ☆

Please consider using one of those next time to indicate a honest opinion about my sarcasm q_q ♡

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

WG continues to refuse admitting the CV rework is going nowhere, despite all the evidence the ship class collides with the game's core concept on a fundamental level and cannot be fixed.

Instead, they are now actually contemplating "invisible ships", an idea that I, for one, consider a lot more laughable than removing CVs as a playable class outright - there could still be bots in about 15% of random battles, as well as operations. Or CVs' participation in random battles could be capped at about 15 to 20% of battles launched. Would still be less ridiculous while at the same time giving people a real reason to buy the new premium Russian BBs and premium DDs without feeling like complete rubes.

 

The time has therefore come to boycott any game modes with CVs in them, protest in public, or even walk away from the game completely.

 

 

 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

1 hour ago, Sunleader said:

Tier 4 CVs are not Overpowered.

They may or may not be balanced, and having three per team during a game seems to be an issue, but they are not OP.

 

So when WG talks global nerfs, because other tier CVs may have issues/OP... that seem to be a questionable balancing choice.

[FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor]

Vor 1 Stunde, Sunleader sagte:

Tier 4 CVs are not Overpowered.
 

They still ruin the game for low tier DDs, which they keep spotted.

DDs used to be a much more popular class. They should be, because they are much more important to play any kind of intelligent objective (= domination modes), and they fit in with the fundamental game concept, none of which goes for CVs.

No amount of balancing can fix that fundamental problem.

 

CVs are broken by design and need to go away. Or players should.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

@FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor

 

Oh yes please start griefing and spamming the forums more.

Protest like mad. Go afk ingame or teamkill CVs. Throw abuse in chat.

Sort yourself out. Noone is in need of toxic behavior like that anyways.

The earlier it all starts the earlier it will end.

This is not your game. You don't have to play it. You are not being held hostage or paid to play it. Just walk away if it's not to your liking or give them a reason to kick you out.

 

Btw you would be suprised how small the amount of complains really are.

[bashenzen]

I've been on both sides multiple times now. It is simply not fun for the ships the cv targets. A lonely Gneisenau was against my Implacable because his team lemminged to the other side of the map. Less than a minute later he lost over half his hp just because he was at least trying not to leave a flank open. 

[Sprockett]

SO here is the results of a nice double T8  CV with 4 competent CV players. and hey ho! it comes down to CV on CV action by flying planes, we only won by getting 2/3 caps, I had no chance against the enemy CV's 2 planes shot down trying to torp dodge dozens of torps Def AA seems like nothing. Bye bye me.

 

results like this are only gonna get worse as CV players gain experience and learn the tricks, you cannot counter it. One of the WG reasons for the rework was to make the mini map less busy, all I now see are planes planes planes, all I have to counter is a clunky( at best ) RNG based counter, verses respawned planes, spotting dmg, HP loss, wave after wave until your gone, The Chat was so in agreement that this was so boring a match and that we felt helpless, and as currently it stands t8, as a tier too play,  in is in its worst state ever, due to being overpowered by double GOD cv games...

[ApolloF117]

17 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Btw you would be suprised how small the amount of complains really are.

If what you say is true, then let wg introduce the button that doesnt throw you in one battle with carriers ... I would like to see those statistics how many would turn it on

[HMS_BlackPud]

Cv rework has wrecked this game. I now have to consider AA in all Cruiser or BB builds. Which takes away from what that particular vessel may have been designed for

[Sprockett]

7 minutes ago, Sprockett said:

SO here is the results of a nice double T8  CV with 4 competent CV players. and hey ho! it comes down to CV on CV action by flying planes, we only won by getting 2/3 caps, I had no chance against the enemy CV's 2 planes shot down trying to torp dodge dozens of torps Def AA seems like nothing. Bye bye me.

 

results like this are only gonna get worse as CV players gain experience and learn the tricks, you cannot counter it. One of the WG reasons for the rework was to make the mini map less busy, all I now see are planes planes planes, all I have to counter is a clunky( at best ) RNG based counter, verses respawned planes, spotting dmg, HP loss, wave after wave until your gone, The Chat was so in agreement that this was so boring a match and that we felt helpless, and as currently it stands t8, as a tier too play,  in is in its worst state ever, due to being overpowered by double GOD cv games...

and a Note on the business model, WG, what is the point of selling me ships to make flanking movements or ships that have excellent AA, Atlanta, Kutuzov, etc, when still they get through, and wear you down.  It really takes fun out of the game, and I do not blame the CV players on this, this is a WG design, that is fundamentally flawed and either, you make CV vulnerable to loosing planes, ie getting deplaned or you give unlimited DEF AA too all ships that carry Def AA that will implement a scatter pattern. or, bring back RTS CV with 1 per match and a high skill ceiling for success! ;-0

 

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

 

It's good you take a break then ☆

Because obviously all other ships are now totally unviable ♡

Also this smiley ":-)" doesn't move me as much as OuO or OwO would ☆

Please consider using one of those next time to indicate a honest opinion about my sarcasm q_q ♡

Again with the sarcasm, why? Yes, I lost interest in in the game as a whole after the rework. The Enterprise has kept me going for a few weeks more.

Take it easy winkysmiley.

[topopski]

Nothing worse than passive aggressive hippys 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 24 Minuten, topopski sagte:

Nothing worse than passive aggressive hippys 

Thread is moving slow lately, someone has to get the attention :O ☆♡☆

[FGS_Weiden]

1 hour ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

@FixCVs_Nautical_Metaphor

 

Oh yes please start griefing and spamming the forums more.

Protest like mad. Go afk ingame or teamkill CVs. Throw abuse in chat.

Sort yourself out. Noone is in need of toxic behavior like that anyways.

The earlier it all starts the earlier it will end.

This is not your game. You don't have to play it. You are not being held hostage or paid to play it. Just walk away if it's not to your liking or give them a reason to kick you out.

 

Btw you would be suprised how small the amount of complains really are.

 

Your way to comment is destructive only.  You do not argue, you just ignore every argument. Perhaps cause you are a main cv-player? Obviously.

[AirSupremacy]

https://wows-numbers.com/ships/tree/type,battleship/

https://wows-numbers.com/ships/tree/type,air_carrier/

[Sprockett]

7 minutes ago, AirSupremacy said:

https://wows-numbers.com/ships/tree/type,battleship/

https://wows-numbers.com/ships/tree/type,air_carrier/

those BB have a lot more games in there stats, also CV's killing off DD's is not gonna stat pad, also CV population is getting better, so no real comparison