CV Rework Discussion

[thisismalacoda]

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20190518/eu_week/average_ship.html

[Sunleader]

13 minutes ago, AirSupremacy said:

The average CV T10 damage is around 80K damage if one looks up the data.

If WG would believe that 80K damage os "overpowered", they would immediately start

to rework BB damage for the entire battleship line.

 

That WG rebalances a bit of DD damage is probably about it,

it's mainly CV beginners which permanently attack DD`s,

hardcore guys go after BB`s.

 

Happy WoWs everyone :)

 

 

Ah.

The Guy who never Plays anything but CVs while Claiming that he plays all Classes Equally is back again.

 

And again he ignores the Point.

BBs can do high Damage. But they are also Visible and in Range of everyones Damage.

Doing Damage in a BB without exposing yourself to Incoming Fire is next to Impossible.

 

 

The reason why CVs are OP.

Is not because they can deal alot of Damage.

 

It is because they can Deal Massive Amounts of Damage which cannot be prevented or Countered while at the same time they are safely outside the reach of Damage for everyone else.

 

 

 

 

Normally the Game follows a Simple Principle.

 

Biggest Danger to BBs are DDs.

Because when a BB Detects a DD or its Torps its often too late to Evade his Torps.

 

Biggest Danger to DDs are Cruisers. Because they Maneuverable enough to Evade Torps and got Radar etc to Detect DDs.

As well as the Guns to kill a DD fast.

 

Biggest Danger to Cruisers are BBs.

Thanks to Citadel Deletion.

And so the Circle closes.

 

CVs before were a Cross in.

They were Dangerous to BBs by Bombing them.

They could be Defendet against by Cruisers which had good AA.

And they could be Killed by DDs which they would not hit easily and which could get to CVs during Lategame.

 

 

 

But now.

Biggest Danger to BB is CV.

Because CV can Bomb him relentless.

Biggest Danger to Cruiser is also CV.

Because he can Bomb the Cruiser and Spot it for BBs.

Biggest Danger to DDs you guessed it. CV.

Because it can spot the DD and on top with the low HP of DDs can easily Sink it with DBs or Rockets.

 

 

Meanwhile.

Biggest and really only Danger to CV is also CVs lol.

DD sneaking up on a CV is Suicide.

He will just be massacred with DBs and Rockets.

Cruiser wont even reach CV unless CV is last Alife on his Team.

And BBs are so easy to Spot that a CV has to be AFK or Stupid to let a BB get into Range of himself....

 

 

 

Notice something.

Why do I even bother....

Of course you do.

But you will just Lie into our faces claiming you dont because you only Play CV and want to keep CVs as ridiculously OP as they are right now.....

 

[AirSupremacy]

I wish everyone a nice time in WoWs,

WG balances after hard data - If one likes it or not.

Over and out :)

[Sunleader]

4 minutes ago, AirSupremacy said:

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ships/tree/type,air_carrier/

 

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ships/tree/type,battleship/

 

 

 

Thanks for the Statostics.

Notice how all CVs have a K/D ratio of 4 to 1 or better.

While all except one BBs have a K/D Ratio of below 2 or worse.

 

 

Thanks for proving our Complaint tvat CVs are Overpowered as crab.

Because they can just Kill everything without ever risking to be killed...

[Sunleader]

1 minute ago, AirSupremacy said:

I wish everyone a nice time in WoWs,

WG balances after hard data - If one likes it or not.

Over and out :)

 

I hope so.

Because a K/D of twice what everyone else has is pretty Hard Data that CVs are completely Unvalanced lol.

[thisismalacoda]

Vor 1 Minute, Sunleader sagte:

 

Thanks for the Statostics.

Notice how all CVs have a K/D ratio of 4 to 1 or better.

While all except one BBs have a K/D Ratio of below 2 or worse.

 

 

Thanks for proving our Complaint tvat CVs are Overpowered as crab.

Because they can just Kill everything without ever risking to be killed...

Again, those are lifetime statistics. The numbers are rising every week as it is a new class and people are getting more proficient with it; my link above contains current numbers and - as I said - all T10 CVs are sitting above 97k.

[Toivia]

12 minutes ago, AirSupremacy said:

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ships/tree/type,air_carrier/

 

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ships/tree/type,battleship/

 

 

Just a very quick note: Those numbers are averages over the whole existence of the game (or the wows server at least). In other words, irrelevant to the rework.

[Sunleader]

11 minutes ago, thisismalacoda said:

Again, those are lifetime statistics. The numbers are rising every week as it is a new class and people are getting more proficient with it; my link above contains current numbers and - as I said - all T10 CVs are sitting above 97k.

 

Dont know how thats calculatef.

But even these Stats show how OP CVs are....

 

 

I mean.

If we Check T10 Ships.

We notice something.

 

Average K/D

 

DDs around 1.2 to 1

Cruisers around 1.3 to 1

BBs around 1.5 to 1

(BBs got minimal Edge but its Generally well Balanced)

Numbers are all somewhat above 1.0 because T10 Ships are Guaranteed to have lower tier and thus Weaker Ships in the Match.

But none really goes far above.

 

And then we got CVs.....

CVs around 5 to 1

Basicly 4 Times Better than any other Class in the Game.....

 

 

If one Class Kills 5 times more than it is Killed.

Than it is pretty Obvious that this Class is Overpowered as Hell.

 

 

[MRGTB]

15 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

If one Class Kills 5 times more than it is Killed.

Than it is pretty Obvious that this Class is Overpowered as Hell.

CV planes can fly anywhere on the map pretty fast and finish off any enemy ships with next to no health left. Something a surface ship simply cannot do. So I wouldn't read too much in the fact CV has a bigger average kill ratio. CV players will look out for any ships very low on health that they can finish off to help the team win.

[DFens_666]

10 minutes ago, GTB1964 said:

CV planes can fly anywhere on the map pretty fast and finish off any enemy ships with next to no health left. Something a surface ship simply cannot do. So I wouldn't read too much in the fact CV has a bigger average kill ratio. CV players will look out for any ships very low on health that they can finish off to help the team win.

 

But CV also has high average damage... so even if they are grabbing easy kills, it doesnt matter in regards of their damage dealing capabilities.

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, GTB1964 said:

CV planes can fly anywhere on the map pretty fast and finish off any enemy ships with next to no health left. Something a surface ship simply cannot do. So I wouldn't read too much in the fact CV has a bigger average kill ratio. CV players will look out for any ships very low on health that they can finish off to help the team win.

 

Thats shortsighted and also proven wrong by the Statistics.

 

CVs dont have a Significantly higher Kill per Match Ratio.

 

Their K/D Ratio is not due to doing more Kills and Damage than other Classes.

 

It comes from them being pretty much safe from Enemy Fire unless their remaining Team is all but Annihilated.

 

 

And this is also why they are so Unbalanced.

 

DDs have the highest Potential Strike Damage.

But they also got least HP and Shortest Range.

Meaning they are Glass Cannons.

Very Dradly. But also very easy to kill.

 

Cruisers have highest DPS and come with the Most Potent Consumables.

But they are also the Class that is easiest to Destroy if they make even the Slightest mistake.

 

BBs have highest HP and longest Range.

But they also got low DPS due to slow Reload and are Exposed to Attack from everyone due to being Spotted from 10 miles away even without Firing their Guns and because their low Mabeuverability does not allow them to efficiently Evade Incoming Fire.

 

 

 

All Classes are balanced this way.

Well.

All Except CV which have Unlimited Range and similar DPS and Strike Damage as a BB.

But have Visibility closer to a Cruiser and neither need to reveal their Position to Attack nor even risk being in Attack Range at all.

 

 

All Ships work by giving them a Damage Output that is Proportional to the Risk they have of being Killed themselves.

 

Except CVs which got a High Damage Output but virtually no Risk to be Killed.

 

[AirSupremacy]

CV`s have a low death rate as they stay back on the map, their high survival % is factored in,

which is reflected in the kill/death ratio statistics.

 

It was written in this thread that the numbers on wows-number would reflect the entire game development time, which is not correct:

> Audacious is a new CV

> The website lists the old Haku and Midway separate as (<30.01.2019 ).

The values since patch 0.8.0, which happened in this year ( 2019 ) are stated on wows-numbers.com as "Midway", "Hakuryu".

People playing the old RTS version before patch 0.8.0 achieved an average of around 96K.

Midway & Haku currently have a combined average of around 81K - Which may drop lower with the upcoming speed-boost reduction of airplanes. The new Audacious CV nearly reaches the old pre-rework RTS system average damage values with 93K , to consider is that there are battleships which average higher than this CV`s average damage.

 

RTS average damage values, up till patch 0.8.0

 

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/4277122768,Hakuryu-30-01-2019-/

https://wows-numbers.com/ship/4279220208,Midway-30-01-2019-/

 

Current average CV values since patch 0.8.0 ( 2019 ) below, further at the bottom are battleship average damage stats.

 

2 hours ago, AirSupremacy said:

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ships/tree/type,air_carrier/

 

 

https://wows-numbers.com/ships/tree/type,battleship/

 

 

 

 

[KillStealBoss]

2 hours ago, Toivia said:

Just a very quick note: Those numbers are averages over the whole existence of the game (or the wows server at least). In other words, irrelevant to the rework.

Nope. The new CVs have new stats. And they are on average lower dmg. Cause old RTS version CV didnt have the "time" problem. Now it does, it needs time to kill some ship. Now ships can heal back or run into allies. In the past Midway vs Tirpitz = one shot Tirpitz. Now it needs to fly over and over to kill him and it depends on DoT . 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

CVs will have reduced dmg with the coming patch. Both reduced spotting dmg and dpm.

Therr is no reason at all to even go about proving that CVs currently are op because they are. CVs at the moment are op.

It will change after the patch however. Only maybe 25% of current unicums will remain unicums.

Everything will be more difficult. AA will deal more damage because slower planespeed. The CD in the beginning will lower damage potential and HE "nerf" on midway Bombers will make them more difficult to use for average players.

 

I predict however that people on my skill level and above will have an easier time with Midway while getting reduced performance with all other CVs but without losing the current impact we have.

 

So CVs will only be OP if people like me are on the enemy team :)

[DFens_666]

28 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Nope. The new CVs have new stats. And they are on average lower dmg. Cause old RTS version CV didnt have the "time" problem. Now it does, it needs time to kill some ship. Now ships can heal back or run into allies. In the past Midway vs Tirpitz = one shot Tirpitz. Now it needs to fly over and over to kill him and it depends on DoT . 

 

You do remember, that starting several squads, moving in for the kill and fly back and land the squads took several minutes with RTS CVs? If anything, they were even more dependant on time Killing a ship didnt take 5 secs as some people claim...

New CVs have lower avg damage, because noobs cant get anything done. RTS CVs included point+click, so even a monkey could have dealt damage with them. The bigger noob the enemy was, the more damage you could get on him (not dodging torps, baiting DefAA and what not).

I think, the difference became bigger than with RTS CVs. Even noob CV players managed >40k avg damage with hightier CVs. That means, good players also deal more damage, as they have to contribute more to the average damage.

 

https://wows-numbers.com/de/ship/4179605488,Midway/?order=average_damage_dealt__desc&amp;p=14

new midway players reach new lows in damage dealing.

https://wows-numbers.com/de/ship/4279220208,Midway-30-01-2019-/?order=average_damage_dealt__desc&amp;p=23

Old midway players had atleast 40k. Except for 4 guys. New players we already have 40 with damage below 40k.

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, AirSupremacy said:

CV`s have a low death rate as they stay back on the map, their high survival % is factored in,

which is reflected in the kill/death ratio statistics.

 

Correct.

And that is Incredible Unbalanced and Broken.

 

EVERY SHIP IN THE GAME EXCEPT CVs.

Have to Risk being Damaged themselves in order to Damage others.

 

Only CVs are Basicly the absolute Noob Class which is allowed to have Guaranteed Damage on everyone else while not having to expose themselves to any Risk.

 

 

If CVs are not Exposed to the Risk of being Killed.

Then their Damage Output should be Incredible Small.

 

But thats not the case.

Their Damage Output is equal to the Class which is basicly Visible and Exposed to Attacks at all times and thus is Targeted by most Enemies First.

 

 

 

 

In the Meantime.

I bothered Testing my Luck against a Worcester.

 

 

I on Purpose.

Tried to Bomb it with Each Squad I had.

To See how well they Reach it.

 

And I managed to Reach and Land Hits on the Worcester with Each Squadron.

Unfortunately my Attention to the Worcester didnt Remain Unnoticed by my Team.

And while I cleaned out the the Frederik the Great which was Sailing in front of the Worcester and Annoyed my Bombing Runs. I constantly had the Worcester Scouted.

And then the Worcester got Deleted with nearly 80% left by a Citadel Salvo from our Moskwa right before I managed to get a Good Torpedo Strike going on it.  (As Nicely Shown by the Screenshot.)

 

Well.

At least this had another Nice Effect.

Thanks to the Worcester and other Enemies constantly being Spotted by Me.

I managed to get Nearly 180k of Spotting Damage done on my Account in an Almost Exclusive T10 Match.

 

 

Pretty Nice Match I got to say.

And the First Time I ever managed to really Run out of Planes *gg*

Albeit I guess thats to be Expected when I am constantly Running Planes against a Worcester thats on top Hiding in a Blob for half the Game.

 

Despite that Foolery I still easily Managed to get nearly 100k Damage by the Way.

 

[Sunleader]

10 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

CVs will have reduced dmg with the coming patch. Both reduced spotting dmg and dpm.

Therr is no reason at all to even go about proving that CVs currently are op because they are. CVs at the moment are op.

It will change after the patch however. Only maybe 25% of current unicums will remain unicums.

Everything will be more difficult. AA will deal more damage because slower planespeed. The CD in the beginning will lower damage potential and HE "nerf" on midway Bombers will make them more difficult to use for average players.

 

I predict however that people on my skill level and above will have an easier time with Midway while getting reduced performance with all other CVs but without losing the current impact we have.

 

So CVs will only be OP if people like me are on the enemy team :)

 

Problem is.

I dont think it will end there.

 

CVs will keep getting Nerfed further afterwards because People will still Complain about them enmasse.

 

Thats why I really think we need a New System instead.

Not just Plain CV Nerfs.

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

If CVs are not Exposed to the Risk of being Killed. 

Then their Damage Output should be Incredible Small. 

 

12 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

It will change after the patch however. Only maybe 25% of current unicums will remain unicums.

 

Problem is, bad people are failing even harder than before. They probably just didnt like CVs being RTS

[AirSupremacy]

Thank you for the interesting screenshots.

19 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Correct.

And that is Incredible Unbalanced and Broken.

 

EVERY SHIP IN THE GAME EXCEPT CVs.

Have to Risk being Damaged themselves in order to Damage others.

 

Only CVs are Basicly the absolute Noob Class which is allowed to have Guaranteed Damage on everyone else while not having to expose themselves to any Risk.

 

 

If CVs are not Exposed to the Risk of being Killed.

Then their Damage Output should be Incredible Small.

 

But thats not the case.

Their Damage Output is equal to the Class which is basicly Visible and Exposed to Attacks at all times and thus is Targeted by most Enemies First.

 

 

 

 

In the Meantime.

I bothered Testing my Luck against a Worcester.

 

 

I on Purpose.

Tried to Bomb it with Each Squad I had.

To See how well they Reach it.

 

And I managed to Reach and Land Hits on the Worcester with Each Squadron.

Unfortunately my Attention to the Worcester didnt Remain Unnoticed by my Team.

And while I cleaned out the the Frederik the Great which was Sailing in front of the Worcester and Annoyed my Bombing Runs. I constantly had the Worcester Scouted.

And then the Worcester got Deleted with nearly 80% left by a Citadel Salvo from our Moskwa right before I managed to get a Good Torpedo Strike going on it.  (As Nicely Shown by the Screenshot.)

 

Well.

At least this had another Nice Effect.

Thanks to the Worcester and other Enemies constantly being Spotted by Me.

I managed to get Nearly 180k of Spotting Damage done on my Account in an Almost Exclusive T10 Match.

 

 

Pretty Nice Match I got to say.

And the First Time I ever managed to really Run out of Planes *gg*

Albeit I guess thats to be Expected when I am constantly Running Planes against a Worcester thats on top Hiding in a Blob for half the Game.

 

Despite that Foolery I still easily Managed to get nearly 100k Damage by the Way.

 

 

[Maihon]

Could I ask a question of the CV players, is "Catapults & Arrester Gear" represented on the in game CV's as a destroyable / damageable module? (Catapults are post ww2 so would only count for cv's designed / entering service after that.)

[El2aZeR]

Well , Yuro noticed.

 

Now she's gonna get nerfed. T_T

 

2 minutes ago, Maihon said:

Could I ask a question of the CV players, is "Catapults and Arrester Gear" represented on the in game CV's as a destroyable / damageable module?

 

No.

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

4 minutes ago, Maihon said:

Could I ask a question of the CV players, is "Catapults and Arrester Gear" represented on the in game CV's as a destroyable / damageable module?

 

Cats and traps AFAIK only became a thing once they started flying jets off carriers.

[Maihon]

I thought arrester gear of some sort was more or less common on just about every carrier, catapults yes defo post WW2.

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

9 minutes ago, Maihon said:

I thought arrester gear of some sort was more or less common on just about every carrier, catapults yes defo post WW2.

 

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that you only need that once you get up to jet speeds, with piston engine aircraft they're slow enough that they can take off and land without assistance.

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

18 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Well , Yuro noticed.

 

Thanks, I damn near myself laughing.

 

Are there any community contributors out there who aren't now openly taking the out of WG over the re-work?