CV Rework Discussion

[El2aZeR]

WG: "We're happy with Atlanta AA performance."

Enterprise:

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

[KillStealBoss]

6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Dont Blame that one on us Players pls.

 

My Fighters mostly just Ignore Bombers.

And I cant give any Command whatsoever to them.

 

I set them.

For 20 secs they do nothing.

And then 40 Secs later they Dissappear.

Enemy CV even gets a Marker where they are and unless you fly into it. Even if your like 1km next to the Fighters. They dont give a Crab.

 

 

If you got Complains on that take em to WG.

 

 

Bombers are currently made to be virtually unstoppable.

We Players including the ones Playing CVs are not excepted from that.

 

 

So demanding us to be Punished makes no sense here.

Well I mean those who don't help at all, those who don't put any fighters to support. And yeah, WG should reward those shoot down planes higher than today. And they need to apply changes to the AA expert achievement cause no matter how much planes you shoot down you don't get any achievement 

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Well I mean those who don't help at all, those who don't put any fighters to support.

 

Most skilled CV players don't.

The reason is very simple. Going out of your way to attempt to protect a teammate is a guaranteed recipe for failure. You're hurting yourself and your team with that, lowering your overall chances to win as you fall far behind in the damage race against the enemy CV.

 

So don't rely on your CV for air defense. If he's not coincidentally right where the enemy CV wants to strike, no air cover should be expected and rightly so, because otherwise your chances of winning plummet.

[KillStealBoss]

9 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

WG: "We're happy with Atlanta AA performance."

Enterprise:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Yeah Atlanta and Flint are a joke now, they really need to buff the amount of AA puffs and the DPS. Making them also destroyer like AA sector (150% if you strengthen one sector as default , with manual AA 180%) and 5 sec sector change on default (2.5 with manual AA) .

 

[KillStealBoss]

1 minute ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Most skilled CV players don't.

The reason is very simple. Going out of your way to attempt to protect a teammate is a guaranteed recipe for failure. You're hurting yourself and your team with that, lowering your overall chances to win as you fall far behind in the damage race against the enemy CV.

 

So don't rely on your CV for air defense. If he's not coincidentally right where the enemy CV wants to strike, no air cover should be expected and rightly so, because otherwise your chances of winning plummet.

If you help your team disturbing enemy CV and saving the teammate DD that can call bases it's always good. I saw in fact the opposite what you say , of I forget about team then I get a loss but high / very high dmg. 

[B051LjKo]

12 hours ago, Sunleader said:

And of course I took losses.

I just dont care lol.

I got 36 Torp Bombers alone.

 

Off course you don't care, you're a potato. Your highest tier carrier is Kaga, with 30 battles only in it, averaging 87K of dmg and 1.1 frags per game.... In a Kaga, with its paper planes, you dont care about ttier X blobs, fighters, and AA spec cruisers, who you bomb! Jesus...

[Sunleader]

20 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

Well I mean those who don't help at all, those who don't put any fighters to support. And yeah, WG should reward those shoot down planes higher than today. And they need to apply changes to the AA expert achievement cause no matter how much planes you shoot down you don't get any achievement 

 

Thing is you really cant.

Carrier Fighters only Attack Bombers when these Bombers Cross into their Market Area about 20 Seconds AFTER you Spawned them.

Now aside from it being Virtually Impossible for your Carrier to Anticipate and Intercept Enemy Bombers with a Lead of 20 Seconds to actually Spawn Fighters in their way or Target Area.

The thing also is useless because the Area is Marked and any CV that is not entirely empty in his Head will simply stay outside the Marked area and thus not even get Attacked by the Fighters.

 

So in the absolute Best case.

Assuming your CV sees the Enemy Bombers very early. And thus can somehow miracously manage to drop Fighters between you and the Enemy Bombers.

He will Delay the Bombing Runs on you by about 5-10 Seconds due to Forcing the Enemy CV to Fly his Bombers around the Marked Area of the Fighters.

Needless to say that he for this Delay will waste 20-30 Seconds he would otherwise been able to Spend on Bombing Enemy Ships.

 

 

Sorry Mate.

But as a CV its absolutely useless to even try and provide Air Cover.

The best a CV can do is to now and then Drop Fighters somewhere between the Lines while he Flies over.

In order to provide a small obstacle the Enemy CV has to Fly around.

 

But thats really about all that makes sense as a CV in this case.

 

 

After the Rework.

CVs are Literally the worst providers of Air Cover possible.

Even an DDs AA Guns will likely take down more enemy Bombers Attacking you than your CV would be able to.

[Sunleader]

2 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Off course you don't care, you're a potato. Your highest tier carrier is Kaga, with 30 battles only in it, averaging 87K of dmg and 1.1 frags per game.... In a Kaga, with its paper planes, you dont care about ttier X blobs, fighters, and AA spec cruisers, who you bomb! Jesus...

 

Given your Avatar.

I think your the Potato.

But thats a different Story.

 

 

As for the Rest.

Yep.

 

Sounds Stupid right ?

Sounds like it should absolutely not happen right ?

Sounds absolutely ridiculous doesnt it ?

 

Unfortunately thats how Overpowered CVs are right now.

I as a Noob with not even 50 CV Matches. (Which is not Surprising because Playing a CV requires no Skill at all) in my T8 Premium bought Kaga with its Paper Planes will just Bomb around in T10 Matches with Impunity.

I dont care for Enemy Fighters because I can just Fly around and half of they time they just Ignore me anyways. I dont care for AA Bubbles because even if the Squadron is Annihilated after I drop the Torps. I got the Torps out and I got Plenty in Reserve. And I dont care for AA Specced Cruisers either because again. I could not give a crab about losing Planes with the amount of Aircraft and ReSupply I got.

 

(Ah. My Rocket Planes are Weak tough. They actually often Die in AA Bubbles or against AA Cruisers before I can Bomb them. Dont know why the Kaga has such weak Rocket Planes. But well I 99% only use TBs and DBs for anything except DDs anyways)

 

 

So what about it ? :)

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, MacArthur92 said:

If you help your team disturbing enemy CV and saving the teammate DD that can call bases it's always good.

 

No it isn't. You will inevitably get at least one strike through even if fighter cover is available. That means in the time the enemy carrier has attacked once, you haven't dealt any damage putting you behind. And 30 seconds later the enemy will attack your teammate again anyway. If you are there again to provide fighter cover, the enemy has attacked twice with you doing jack

Lets pick your example above. The enemy CV attacks your DD, you're there to pop a fighter. The enemy CV deals 10k damage to your DD regardless. Because you cannot go anywhere before the enemy CV returns you have to stay around to continue providing cover. The enemy CV attacks your DD again, deals 10k damage and kills him.

So that's a DD lost with nothing to show for it on your part.

 

There is no benefit to providing fighter cover. Your teammate is going to die anyway while you are letting the enemy CV gain the lead in the damage race over you. You. Can't. Save. Anyone.

As such only bad CV players will attempt to constantly protect their teammates.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

But El2aZeR! ☆

You can't tell me you got your high winrates without supporting your team right?! ♡

Aren't you fighter plane spamming the whole time in your own spawn and circling your tanky AP divebombers over enemy DDs to keep them spotted so your team shoots them dead?! ☆♡☆

That's how the good CV players play by supporting their team not by selfish damage farming. ♡☆♡

I mean come on, obviously the best CV player is the one doing teamwork! Obviously! ☆

[El2aZeR]

On a different note

Spoiler

 

you can ALMOST feel the realism, no? 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 3 Minuten, El2aZeR sagte:

On a different note

  Inhalte verstecken

 

you can ALMOST feel the realism, no? 

What's wrong with that picture?

[El2aZeR]

Just now, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

What's wrong with that picture?

 

Small fighters being launched are spotted before gigantic ship. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, El2aZeR sagte:

 

Small fighters being launched are spotted before gigantic ship. 

.... i never thought about that. ☆

Stoopid WG and stoopid me xD ♡

[xxNihilanxx]

10 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

On a different note

  Reveal hidden contents

 

you can ALMOST feel the realism, no? 

 

4 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Small fighters being launched are spotted before gigantic ship. 

 

On 3/6/2019 at 6:33 PM, El2aZeR said:

 

Funny how "muh realism" is never a valid argument until it comes to CVs.

 

[El2aZeR]

10 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

 

I'm not complaining. I thoroughly understand why ship air detectability of most ships is lower than plane air detectability and have no issues with it.

Just thought it's funny enough to share. :)

 

Wait, you're just mad I managed to waste another few minutes of your life with my signature, aren't you? 

[KillStealBoss]

4 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

No it isn't. You will inevitably get at least one strike through even if fighter cover is available. That means in the time the enemy carrier has attacked once, you haven't dealt any damage putting you behind. And 30 seconds later the enemy will attack your teammate again anyway. If you are there again to provide fighter cover, the enemy has attacked twice with you doing jack

Lets pick your example above. The enemy CV attacks your DD, you're there to pop a fighter. The enemy CV deals 10k damage to your DD regardless. Because you cannot go anywhere before the enemy CV returns you have to stay around to continue providing cover. The enemy CV attacks your DD again, deals 10k damage and kills him.

So that's a DD lost with nothing to show for it on your part.

 

There is no benefit to providing fighter cover. Your teammate is going to die anyway while you are letting the enemy CV gain the lead in the damage race over you. You. Can't. Save. Anyone.

As such only bad CV players will attempt to constantly protect their teammates.

I put cover not when I see that he attacks. I put way before in the beginning of the battle or when my teammate was attacked so he won't attack him again. And I don't lose time when I fly over team anyways (I don't put myself in the front line on CV - maybe this is your point that you're very close and so you don't want to help cause "it's not on your way" ) . How he can do 10 k dmg when I put the fighters not above the DD but one minimap square in front of the DD. And you don't get 10k per strike everytime with bombs especially not with rockets and the fighters kill the rest. 

Though they should make the fighter consumable follow the teammates and last longer.  

[KillStealBoss]

6 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Thing is you really cant.

Carrier Fighters only Attack Bombers when these Bombers Cross into their Market Area about 20 Seconds AFTER you Spawned them.

Now aside from it being Virtually Impossible for your Carrier to Anticipate and Intercept Enemy Bombers with a Lead of 20 Seconds to actually Spawn Fighters in their way or Target Area.

The thing also is useless because the Area is Marked and any CV that is not entirely empty in his Head will simply stay outside the Marked area and thus not even get Attacked by the Fighters.

 

So in the absolute Best case.

Assuming your CV sees the Enemy Bombers very early. And thus can somehow miracously manage to drop Fighters between you and the Enemy Bombers.

He will Delay the Bombing Runs on you by about 5-10 Seconds due to Forcing the Enemy CV to Fly his Bombers around the Marked Area of the Fighters.

Needless to say that he for this Delay will waste 20-30 Seconds he would otherwise been able to Spend on Bombing Enemy Ships.

 

 

Sorry Mate.

But as a CV its absolutely useless to even try and provide Air Cover.

The best a CV can do is to now and then Drop Fighters somewhere between the Lines while he Flies over.

In order to provide a small obstacle the Enemy CV has to Fly around.

 

But thats really about all that makes sense as a CV in this case.

 

 

After the Rework.

CVs are Literally the worst providers of Air Cover possible.

Even an DDs AA Guns will likely take down more enemy Bombers Attacking you than your CV would be able to.

Yes I can't shoot down all enemy planes everytime but at least I support the teammate so won't attack him / ruin his attack so he has to run away or attack something else that has stronger AA. Usually I give cover to low AA ships / DDs. I'm not always successful . But it's better to do so than to totally ignore team. 

[Operation_Crossroads_1]

Flamu now calls himself "deleteCV":

 

Spoiler

 

 

Jingles says the only games worth showing are the ones without CV.

 

That's two of the biggest most well known community contributors saying the CV rework is gamebreaking

 

I don't think WG HQ are going to put up with this for long.

 

 

 

[B051LjKo]

7 hours ago, Sunleader said:

 

Given your Avatar.

I think your the Potato.

But thats a different Story.

Nothing wrong in being a potato. 

 

Quote

As for the Rest.

Yep.

 

Sounds Stupid right ?

Sounds like it should absolutely not happen right ?

Sounds absolutely ridiculous doesnt it ?

 

IT doesn't just sound stupit, it is stupid and simply not correct. And your stats prove it. You are not flying around in Tier X battles ignoring AA and fighters, Kaga can not do that. You are writing false and incorrect statements.

Quote

Unfortunately thats how Overpowered CVs are right now.

If they were overpowered, you would be posting a lot better stats than you are, and yo uare slightly above average, with only 30 battles,, that is not even statistically relevant. 

Quote

I as a Noob with not even 50 CV Matches. (Which is not Surprising because Playing a CV requires no Skill at all)

 

If flying CVs did not require any skill, you would be averaging way more that 1 frag per game. Check the list for some really good players and see the difference 

Quote

in my T8 Premium bought Kaga with its Paper Planes will just Bomb around in T10 Matches with Impunity.

Post a video with your invincible Kaga in Tier X, I would like to see you attacking a Tier X blob with impunity.

Quote

I dont care for Enemy Fighters because I can just Fly around and half of they time they just Ignore me anyways. I dont care for AA Bubbles because even if the Squadron is Annihilated after I drop the Torps. I got the Torps out and I got Plenty in Reserve. And I dont care for AA Specced Cruisers either because again. I could not give a crab about losing Planes with the amount of Aircraft and ReSupply I got.

If you cared about the things you mention, you would be averaging more than 100K per round...

Quote

So what about it ? :)

Nothing, there is no way to convince a potato that he is wrong...

 

Show us anything to support your claims... screenshots with you dominating Tier X being first by damage, kills and XP,  show us how much damage did you do to Wooster or Minotaur, I mean anything to support your claims...

[TheBrut3]

Lets post another idea, commander skills this time.

 

Buff manual AA with the damage of AFT. Buff AFT with the oldskool range. So if some1 wanna invest 8 points they have a super AA ship that actualy can shoot down planes, but they will have less fighting power against other ships.

[Sunleader]

3 hours ago, MacArthur92 said:

Yes I can't shoot down all enemy planes everytime but at least I support the teammate so won't attack him / ruin his attack so he has to run away or attack something else that has stronger AA. Usually I give cover to low AA ships / DDs. I'm not always successful . But it's better to do so than to totally ignore team. 

 

No Mate.

You cant Shoot any Damn Planes at all with this Crab.

Believe me. I tried. I Fighter Spammed and Explicitly went around in Battles trying to Intercept and Cover my Team from Enemy Bombers.

And know what ?

My own AA Guns still Killed more Aircraft than my Fighters. Because my Fighters just Ignore anything outside their Area and any CV with a Brain will just fly around that Area.

 

I can tell you that from the other side as well.

When CVs drop Fighters on or in front of an Enemy Ship I want to Bomb. I do not change my Attack Target.

If he Drops em on the Enemy I just Continue the Attack because the Fighters will just Ignore me anyways.

And if he Drops em in Front I just spend 3-5 Seconds Flying around the Marked Area to still Bomb that Target.

 

Thing is.

As the Attacking CV I spend like 5 Seconds longer on that Attack.

While the Enemy CV spend 20-30 Seconds to Fly there and Provide Fighter Cover.

Disadvantaging his Team because he is doing less Damage.

 

Sorry Mate.

But unless WG actually gives these Fighters an Proper Aggro Range and a Longer Duration.

Providing Air Cover as a CV is absolutely impossible and useless.

 

2 hours ago, B051LjKo said:

Nothing wrong in being a potato. 

 

 

IT doesn't just sound stupit, it is stupid and simply not correct. And your stats prove it. You are not flying around in Tier X battles ignoring AA and fighters, Kaga can not do that. You are writing false and incorrect statements.

If they were overpowered, you would be posting a lot better stats than you are, and yo uare slightly above average, with only 30 battles,, that is not even statistically relevant. 

If flying CVs did not require any skill, you would be averaging way more that 1 frag per game. Check the list for some really good players and see the difference 

Post a video with your invincible Kaga in Tier X, I would like to see you attacking a Tier X blob with impunity.

If you cared about the things you mention, you would be averaging more than 100K per round...

Nothing, there is no way to convince a potato that he is wrong...

 

Show us anything to support your claims... screenshots with you dominating Tier X being first by damage, kills and XP,  show us how much damage did you do to Wooster or Minotaur, I mean anything to support your claims...

 

1.

Except it is what happens lol.

 

2.

Erm Mate. Maybe Read my Post. I said I do Unicum Matches in my Kaga.

Not that I am Unicum.

The Fact that I am just a Casual Scrub with Average Skills is exactly the Point here.

Because a Casual Scrub with Average Stats like me can still run Unicum Stats in a Goddamn CV without Problems.

And my PR on Kaga is way beyond Average with 1700 something lol. 

 

But. Thats not a Problem.

I made some Screenshots of my Recent Battles Stats on WoWs Numbers Yesterday after that Battle with the 3 Yamatos.

I didnt Play CVs again after that. So my Stats Dropped back to low levels where they Belong :P

But its not a Problem to Prove that this Really Happened.

I.ll add them to the Post after this.

 

3.

Why would I ?

I am not Aiming for Frags.

And I explicitly dont Attack Targets at low Health unless they got close to me.

It would be a waste of a Bomb Strike.

 

4.

Ok.

I am usually not going after the Blob cause its usually too far away.

But I.ll on Purpose Attack Blobs again this Week to get a Replay to Prove to you that a Blob is barely an Hindrance.

 

5.

Well thats Fine.

See Mate as I said.

I am a Casual who should never get such Stats in the First Place.

Explicitly because I on purpose dont Optimize my Gameplay and only Play for Fun.

My Argument is actually exactly that I should not have such Stats when I am a Noob who is just having Fun and not putting in any Effort.

 

6.

Sigh.

You really are a Demanding Potato.

But I.ll see if I can Produce some Replays where I got Specifically Woosters etc to Bomb.

Just dont expect this to happen Tomorrow.

I play like 2-3 Games per Day. And I dont want to only Play CV. 

So i dont get such Enemies all the time.

 

 

 

(Reserved for Screenshots to be Edited into the Post in a few Minutes)

 

Edit:

Heres the two Screenshots.

Sorry for the Delay on them.

I took these Yesterday on my Smartphone while I was at work.

(Which you can only see from the Strange Long Cutout they provide due to being Screenshots from a Smartphone screen)

 

Thats what my Stats Page Looked like when I made the Post Yesterday.

(And Yeah I know. I should have included these Yesterday to avoid Confusion when People a Day Later read the Post and then look at my Stats a Day later where I didnt even play CV and thus got my Stats dropped again as I didnt play OP CVs lol)

 

 

[Prospect_b]

2 hours ago, Operation_Crossroads_1 said:

Flamu now calls himself "deleteCV":

 

  Hide contents

 

 

Jingles says the only games worth showing are the ones without CV.

 

That's two of the biggest most well known community contributors saying the CV rework is gamebreaking

 

I don't think WG HQ are going to put up with this for long.

 

 

 

 

I don't follow Jingles, so I don't know if he said CVs were gamebreaking (as following from only non-CV games are worth showing)

 

But Flamu has become a joke, where he is just delivering on demand his specific toxic blend of "circlejerktainment" for his special-ed viewers. Too bad, cause he is a good player and knowledgeable, but I can't take his views serious anymore underneath that streamer camouflage.

 

I saw in the Q&A that SO said smt about seeing to much "echo room talk", and I hope they keep that stand. It's getting ridiculous.

[KillStealBoss]

20 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

No Mate.

You cant Shoot any Damn Planes at all with this Crab.

Believe me. I tried. I Fighter Spammed and Explicitly went around in Battles trying to Intercept and Cover my Team from Enemy Bombers.

And know what ?

My own AA Guns still Killed more Aircraft than my Fighters. Because my Fighters just Ignore anything outside their Area and any CV with a Brain will just fly around that Area.

 

I can tell you that from the other side as well.

When CVs drop Fighters on or in front of an Enemy Ship I want to Bomb. I do not change my Attack Target.

If he Drops em on the Enemy I just Continue the Attack because the Fighters will just Ignore me anyways.

And if he Drops em in Front I just spend 3-5 Seconds Flying around the Marked Area to still Bomb that Target.

 

Thing is.

As the Attacking CV I spend like 5 Seconds longer on that Attack.

While the Enemy CV spend 20-30 Seconds to Fly there and Provide Fighter Cover.

Disadvantaging his Team because he is doing less Damage.

 

Sorry Mate.

But unless WG actually gives these Fighters an Proper Aggro Range and a Longer Duration.

Providing Air Cover as a CV is absolutely impossible and useless.

 

 

 

 

 

You still dont understand my point. I discourage the cv to attack low AA targets by putting those fighters. From time to time those fighters do shoot down 2-3 planes. So by this at least I try to protect my low AA teammate. In my opinion it should activate in 10 sec not 20. But still I dont use it to kill planes but to prevent enemy cv to attack. though sometimes he manages to make it when teammate is stupid enough to sail away from those fighters. I'm not responsible for lack of logic .

[Sunleader]

3 minutes ago, MacArthur92 said:

You still dont understand my point. I discourage the cv to attack low AA targets by putting those fighters. From time to time those fighters do shoot down 2-3 planes. So by this at least I try to protect my low AA teammate. In my opinion it should activate in 10 sec not 20. But still I dont use it to kill planes but to prevent enemy cv to attack. though sometimes he manages to make it when teammate is stupid enough to sail away from those fighters. I'm not responsible for lack of logic .

 

Its not that I dont get your Point.

Its just that your Point is not really working.

Because Dropping Fighters is not Discouraging anyone from Bombing lol.

 

Actually its the Opposite.

When I see an CV Dropping Fighters somewhere. I actually Explicitly Fly there with my Bombers.

Because I know that Nice CVs often Drop Fighters to Protect their DDs.

Thus if I fly there with my Bombers I might be able to Kill a DD lol.

 

17 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Sometimes i like to imagine you being an amazing troll i could colaborate with to get some truly amazingly confusing stuff going ☆

But then there is this faint feeling of you actually being serious that pops this bubble while a new one is filling and forming full of hope that you are a troll! ♡

 

COLLABORATIO-- pop! ☆

Collaboration! -- pop.... ♡

collabo-- pop! ☆

 

COLLAB -- pop... ♡

 

Collaboration! -- POPPOU! ☆

 

Co..lab..orat..ion... -- pop q_q

 

For the Trolling Part.

I guess it is a bit of Both.

Because when I play my CV currently I am mostly just fooling around.

CVs are so Overpowered right now that its not a problem to just fool around and still get pretty decent Stats.

 

I dont get the rest of your Post tough.

I dont see any Correlation between the Lines you Quoted.