CV Rework Discussion

[Culiacan_Mexico]

35 minutes ago, Namuras said:

Spotting damage is down... by approx 20%. Tho people are now complaining that CV spot MORE b/c they are in every game...(tho that every game never happens if i ever choose an AA ship)

Spotting damage is down... it varies... but as to why?  RTS CV had more air groups to utilize, plus their air speed was slower, so I don't think lower spotting damage or overall spotting would be a surprise from this version of CVs.  However, not all spotting is created equal, so it is possible that the current version of CV is more effective overall at spotting.

[AirSupremacy]

30 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Sure.

You enjoy it cause your a CV Player.

So Generally your on the end from which they start.

Not on the End where they hit.

 

See Mate.

When a BB hurls Shells at a Target.

It is visible over the entire Map and will likely have Shells hurled right back at it.

Same for a Cruiser.

 

A DD can hurl Torps without being visible.

But hes got like 20% of the HP of other Ships and has to drive within 10k range to actually throw anything that deals Damage.

 

 

 

I have a Suggestion.

Lets change BBs.

BBs get a Firibg range of 50km.

They get Guided Shells that can be corrected in flight to hit the Target and which will Spot any Enemies they fly over.

And to top it off. BBs Visibility Range is reduced to about 10km and is not increased by firing its Guns.

As a final touch we give BBs an Automatic Fighter Spawn when detected and 3 Manual Fighters Spawns it can spread around itself.

 

 

Oh wait.

We already got that Ship.

Its called CV :)

 

 

I enjoy playing all ship classes.

Playing CV is the greatest fun for me,

as IMHO its the class with the widest skill possible gap for players which want to become good and the class with the biggest Theatre-of-War immersion feel.

+ I waited 1 year to play WoWs again on day 1 of the CV rework.

 

Submarines could be a similar class with a wide possible skill gap, I am looking forward to them too.

Subs , AA & CV`s are the only reason why I came back to WoWs, the game got too boring for me in the past.

[Namuras]

7 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Spotting damage is down... it varies... but as to why?  RTS CV had more air groups to utilize, plus their air speed was slower, so I don't think lower spotting damage or overall spotting would be a surprise from this version of CVs.  However, not all spotting is created equal, so it is possible that the current version of CV is more effective overall at spotting.

It isn't tho... the quality of spotting is down - aka less damage produced due to CV spotting. CVs before where or atleast if they wanted to could be way more effective at spotting. Either with fighters or by using empty DBs.

[Sunleader]

3 hours ago, AirSupremacy said:

I enjoy playing all ship classes.

Playing CV is the greatest fun for me,

as IMHO its the class with the widest skill possible gap for players which want to become good and the class with the biggest Theatre-of-War immersion feel.

+ I waited 1 year to play WoWs again on day 1 of the CV rework.

 

Submarines could be a similar class with a wide possible skill gap, I am looking forward to them too.

Subs , AA & CV`s are the only reason why I came back to WoWs, the game got too boring for me in the past.

 

There is no Skill Gap on CVs.

My Friend. A Casual Player with the Reaction Speed of a Soft Potato and the Aiming Skills of a 98 Year old Blind Grandma.

Can play a CV and easily rack up large amounts of Damage.

 

CVs require no Skill at all.

And the difference between Zero and Zero is Zero :)

 

 

And Yes.

Everyone here got your message on the first time.

You love CV and of course you love the Game now that CVs are Overpowered as ****.

 

*edit*

[El2aZeR]

 

Kek.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

37 minutes ago, Namuras said:

It isn't tho... the quality of spotting is down - aka less damage produced due to CV spotting. CVs before where or atleast if they wanted to could be way more effective at spotting. Either with fighters or by using empty DBs.

I would think that overall spotting would be up simply because to the significant number of CVs being played.

 

As for individual ships "spotting" effects. The new Cvs Tier 6, 8, and 10 CVs are performing considerably better than the RTS CVs with regards to experience; even though in some cases they are doing less damage.  Where is this coming from?  Their ability now to be very effective in spotting/defending bases?

 

 

Player Average for Ships [ at 2019/05/11 ]
nation	class	tier	name
				exp	damage caused	warship destroyed	aircraft destoryed	base capture	base defense	spot damage
JP	CV	6	Ryujo	1196	39934	0.75	4.23	0.63	12.08	26279
JP	CV	8	Shokaku	1704	59465	0.9	6.11	0.65	11.37	45390
JP	CV	10	Hakuryu	1956	89273	1.01	6.55	0.51	10	70096
US	CV	6	Ranger	1163	37551	0.69	4.19	0.36	11.16	25047
US	CV	8	Lexington	1772	65086	0.96	6.06	0.47	12.2	44360
US	CV	10	Midway	2072	92888	1.09	7.37	0.58	14.06	69445
Player Average for Ships [ at 2018/09/29 ]
ation	class	tier	name
				exp	damage caused	warship destroyed	aircraft destoryed	base capture	base defense	spot damage
JP	CV	6	Ryujo	960	37468	0.74	10.23	0.42	4.56	34128
JP	CV	8	Shokaku	1182	53269	0.78	16.91	0.29	5.18	66616
JP	CV	10	Hakuryu	1727	96751	1.3	27.28	0.56	5.56	96681
US	CV	6	Independence	988	35364	0.67	13.14	0.51	3.9	30381
US	CV	8	Lexington	1155	56814	0.78	13.93	0.18	4.7	52789
US	CV	10	Midway	1906	108972	1.57	26.76	0.53	5.73	90089

 

 

 

 

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

And I guess spotting for yourself via summoned fighter while in smoke isn't an issue either?

 

Seriously, have you people even REMOTELY thought this through?

Then those fighters don't have spotting ability... not really difficult to design something

[El2aZeR]

5 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Then those fighters don't have spotting ability... not really difficult to design something

 

Doesn't prevent them from getting shot down now, doesn't it?

 

I can see you have thought this proposal through very carefully. 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

23 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Then those fighters don't have spotting ability... not really difficult to design something

Personal prejudice I suppose, but with RTS CV I liked the cat and mouse game of trying to stay hidden from aircraft.  I understand with the new aircraft and their extreme speed... that game play is probably dead.

[Namuras]

35 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

As for individual ships "spotting" effects. The new Cvs Tier 6, 8, and 10 CVs are performing considerably better than the RTS CVs with regards to experience; even though in some cases they are doing less damage.  Where is this coming from?  Their ability now to be very effective in spotting/defending bases?

CV XP was calculated differently before the rework. They now get the same as BBs. So overall they get more XP compared to pre rework. 

[Pikkozoikum]

12 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Personal prejudice I suppose, but with RTS CV I liked the cat and mouse game of trying to stay hidden from aircraft.  I understand with the new aircraft and their extreme speed... that game play is probably dead.

The speed is not really extreme, just higher? Though Dive bomber without bomb load should be faster in average and better spotter

[Culiacan_Mexico]

8 minutes ago, Namuras said:

CV XP was calculated differently before the rework. They now get the same as BBs. So overall they get more XP compared to pre rework. 

The interesting thing is that after 0.8.0, CVs are doing very well compared to other ships types. Excluding Tier 4 CVs, where their experience is comparable to other Tier 4s.

 

			exp
1	BB	Higher Tier	1475
1	CA	Higher Tier	1491
1	CV	Higher Tier	1877
1	DD	Higher Tier	1480
2	BB	Lower Tier	993
2	CA	Lower Tier	846
2	CV	Lower Tier	1058
2	DD	Lower Tier	889

[Culiacan_Mexico]

3 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

The speed is not really extreme, just higher? Though Dive bomber without bomb load should be faster in average and better spotter

I use extreme (personal prejudice) because the new aircraft game speed destroyed lots of game play, and considering WG responses since 0.8.0 I don't think it was intentional.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 7 Minuten, Culiacan_Mexico sagte:

I use extreme (personal prejudice) because the new aircraft game speed destroyed lots of game play, and considering WG responses since 0.8.0 I don't think it was intentional.

Is the aircraft really faster however?

It's actually not that much. The thing that gives the illusion that it is is because there are no rearming times anymore.

An empty divebomber never needed to return to the CV either to be able to spot after the first launch.

You could place 3 of them with the Hakuryo in all corners behind the enemy team to keep them all spotted if the enemy CV doesnt do something about it.

Now you can't do that anymore and spotting without the intention of striking a target ia currently not viable.

[Namuras]

16 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

The interesting thing is that after 0.8.0, CVs are doing very well compared to other ships types. Excluding Tier 4 CVs, where their experience is comparable to other Tier 4s.

 

			exp
1	BB	Higher Tier	1475
1	CA	Higher Tier	1491
1	CV	Higher Tier	1877
1	DD	Higher Tier	1480
2	BB	Lower Tier	993
2	CA	Lower Tier	846
2	CV	Lower Tier	1058
2	DD	Lower Tier	889

Because they get more for what they do... BBs have better multipliers for different actions. 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Is the aircraft really faster however?

I believe so.  In a DD with a single RTS CV (mid-tier) if the CV spanned on the opposite side of the map it would mean that you could scout forward with some confidence as their would be considerable time wasted fly to your side of the map.  wasn't this one of the reasons the experience CV players talked about positioning your CV smartly to reduce turn around time?

[Culiacan_Mexico]

8 minutes ago, Namuras said:

Because they get more for what they do... BBs have better multipliers for different actions. 

So what should WG do to nerf CVs and bring them into line with other ship types?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 3 Minuten, Culiacan_Mexico sagte:

So what should WG to nerf CVs and bring them into line with other ship types?

Other ship lines will likely soon earn more eyp bevause there will be rewarded plane dmg instead of plane kills rising the potential exp every ship shooting at planes get

[Namuras]

1 minute ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

So what should WG to nerf CVs and bring them into line with other ship types?

They could swap them back to their old formula? That would be the "easiest" solution. Then if that doesn't work out, tweak the multipliers.

 

It's not that they earn massive amounts of cash compared to other ships tho. They are decent, since atleast for me they are very dependable performers. Other than BigE normaly earning 1m+ per match. 

[Panocek]

11 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

So what should WG to nerf CVs and bring them into line with other ship types?

In terms of avg exp? Change exp modifiers. Avg dmg seems to be in line with battleships of same tier, so thats sort of balanced.

 

[Sunleader]

5 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Is the aircraft really faster however?

It's actually not that much. The thing that gives the illusion that it is is because there are no rearming times anymore.

An empty divebomber never needed to return to the CV either to be able to spot after the first launch.

You could place 3 of them with the Hakuryo in all corners behind the enemy team to keep them all spotted if the enemy CV doesnt do something about it.

Now you can't do that anymore and spotting without the intention of striking a target ia currently not viable.

 

What ?

Spotting without Striking the Target is not just Viable.

Ita a must for a CV.

 

And its easier than ever cause you can actively evade AA and Stay in Spotting Distance.

 

I often do that especially against DDs and CVs if they are in range of Allied Ships.

 

 

1 minute ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

So what should WG to nerf CVs and bring them into line with other ship types?

 

Its not possible in my eyes.

The current System is too biased towards preventing Gameplay Interruptions and focused on providing fast action Gameplay for CVs

 

So CVs are either useless or overpowered.

 

 

The Old System was disliked because a CV was all about Skill.

A Good CV was effectively a Guardian Angel for his Team and an absolute Nightmare for the Enemy Team.

A Bad CV was entirely useless and would often not even do Damage.

 

But this also meant.

That the entire Team depended on the CV to hold his own against the Enemy CV.

 

 

The New System completely locks this out.

Defending your Team is impossible.

Instead your only Contribution is spotting on one area and damage.

As you cant deny the Enemy CV however. Your influence on the Match is very Limited.

 

Because if you do 200k damage and the enemy CV does only 100k. Your still only making 1 BB Difference.

 

Of course for individual players your meanwhile a Nightmare.

Because there is an Enemy which can attack them with incredible accuracy and with absolute impunity without them having any countermeasure against it.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

15 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Other ship lines will likely soon earn more eyp bevause there will be rewarded plane dmg instead of plane kills rising the potential exp every ship shooting at planes get

Don't 0.8.0 CV have some of the highest average plane kills per game?

 

					aircraft destroyed
US	CV	6		Ranger	4.18
US	CA	10		Worcester	3.87

[Culiacan_Mexico]

9 minutes ago, Panocek said:

In terms of avg exp? Change exp modifiers. Avg dmg seems to be in line with battleships of same tier, so thats sort of balanced.

 

Is it possible that the differences in experience is showing some CV have too much game influence?

[Panocek]

36 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Is it possible that the differences in experience is showing some CV have too much game influence?

Perhaps. Or WG increased (too much) exp gains when thet nerfed CV in their extra top kek state during Test Servers run in October/November if memory serves me right, as despite cranking 250k+ dmg games, base exp wasn't ridiculously over the top

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 46 Minuten, Culiacan_Mexico sagte:

Is it possible that the differences in experience is showing some CV have too much game influence?

CV get less rewards for plane kills then other ships. DDs get most exp per plane shot down.

 

@Sunleader

You are wrong on the spotting.

Disagree all you like but you are wrong on that one.