CV Rework Discussion

[1MajorKoenig]

42 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

So basically in that thread S_O says that he likes how constant spotting dumbs down the game so that WG can possibly get more money from casuals. Just wow.

 

Wut?

[Sunleader]

48 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Hey :)

I did not claim that you have to be that person. I have simply quoted him on his assumption. I also checked if his claim was right by going to a stats page. Usually when a namechange happens you can search for the old persons name and the stats of the new name will appear under the same ID in the browser adress. It doesn't for you and the Sobchaak person.

So i simply stayed out of this to see how that all will develop.

I can understand however why he made the assumption since you both are blocking stats fro  public view (which is fine) and appeared around the same time while Sobchaak simply suddenly vanished.

Maybe he got tired of the crusade rather fast.

 

Also you need to better your attitude for real man. My Hallucinations or Past Traumata have nothing to do with anything on this forum or game.

 

 

There made it Public.

Nothing worthwhile showing to others.

Just an Average Casual Player with the currently very easily rising CV Rating.

 

As for my Attitude.

If you want me to treat you seriously you will need to behave seriously first.

 

I wont try to keep up a serious discussion when the other side constantly tries to discuss my person instead of the topic.

 

 

40 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

So basically in that thread S_O says that he likes how constant spotting dumbs down the game so that WG can possibly get more money from casuals. Just wow.

 

To begin with this calculation doesnt go up.

Its nice if WG sells more Premium Carriers and gets more Carrier Players.

But if in exchange 5 times as many other Customers lose interest due to being frustrated by the current CV rubbish.

WG will actually lose money instead.

And given that WG spend the last 4 Updates slowly nerfing CVs with no sign of stopping.

I dont think WG has missed this circumstance...

 

 

Just now, Uglesett said:

Sure there can.

 

I mean, introduce shell velocity and arc for anti aircraft guns, and it could become quite the skillshot. A good player able to place sharpnel bursts right on top of a flight of aircraft... it's fundamentally no different from a good shot being able to cripple or knock out a surface vessel, after all. Except that aircraft regenerate, ships do not.

To be blunt, the period during which the developer knows better than the top players in any given multiplayer title lasts about one to two weeks after launch. After that even the best of the devs rarely have the skill or knowledge to truly play well in or even fully understand the high level meta of their own game. That's just the way of things: Game developers rarely have enough time to play to keep up with the player base.

 

Would not be a Challenge.

Aircraft currently fly at 2 Speeds and 2 Altitudes.

So it would take like 3 Days before you can read up the exact Gun Elevation and Timer Setting to Massacre incoming Squadrons at a few Key Distances.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 9 Minuten, Uglesett sagte:

 

I mean, introduce shell velocity and arc for anti aircraft guns, and it could become quite the skillshot. A good player able to place sharpnel bursts right on top of a flight of aircraft... it's fundamentally no different from a good shot being able to cripple or knock out a surface vessel, after all. Except that aircraft regenerate, ships do not.

Well, with how flak currently spawns and works you ton't be able to shoot the flak right ontop of the planes.

Assuming they implement manual aim with thr current mechanics (they said they won't rework things again) The flak always spawns a (time to reach) distance infront of planes flightpath relative to their speed. Planes go slower, flak spawns closer (with time to reach said flak cloud being the same as any other speed if staying on the speed).

So no matter how well you aimed, the CV would always have the same amount of time to dodge it.

 

If of course you would change the AA system so that you could hit Planes as you can hit other ships then yes, you would be able to get skillshots of. If you even get the chance to calculate such a shot fast enough since you have around 3 - 5 seconds at max to get the angle, height, speed of planes, trajectory of planes correctly before they drop you. And after they pass over your ship good luck in adjusting the camera let alone keep an eye on what's happening around you.

Again something that doesn't have the average player in mind.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 6 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

I wont try to keep up a serious discussion when the other side constantly tries to discuss my person instead of the topic

I'm not discussing your person, just noted that you made me remember things that don't belong here and now i'm a victim of my own thoughts like a snowflake melting during it's descend towards earth. lol ☆

And of course AA manual aim wouldn't be a problem for you at all ☆♡☆

[Uglesett]

1 minute ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Well, with how flak currently spawns and works you ton't be able to shoot the flak right ontop of the planes.

Of course it'll be different from how it currently works. That's the point.

 (they said they won't rework things again)

 

The flak always spawns a (time to reach) distance infront of planes flightpath relative to their speed. Planes go slower, flak spawns closer (with time to reach said flak cloud being the same as any other speed if staying on the speed).

So no matter how well you aimed, the CV would always have the same amount of time to dodge it.

Yes, and we're not talking about that, we're talking about shells with actual arcs and travel times. As for when they'd detonate, the easiest solution would be to basically have "radar" shells that went off when within a certain distance of an enemy aircraft. Or you could select a squadron as a target (same as with ships) and shells would detonate when reaching that squadron's height.

 

The only thing that's really an issue is how to handle the different range bands.

 

If you even get the chance to calculate such a shot fast enough since you have around 3 - 5 seconds at max to get the angle, height, speed of planes, trajectory of planes correctly before they drop you. And after they pass over your ship good luck in adjusting the camera let alone keep an eye on what's happening around you.

Again something that doesn't have the average player in mind.

Eh. Any half-experienced FPS-player would get the hang of it pretty quickly.

 

I see it as an alternative to the (default) automatic control that skilled players can use to make the CV player's life more interesting. If you don't have the attention to spare you leave it on automatic, but you can press a key to take manual control of aa.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Well if you think so.. :D ☆

[Sunleader]

6 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I'm not discussing your person, just noted that you made me remember things that don't belong here and now i'm a victim of my own thoughts like a snowflake melting during it's descend towards earth. lol ☆

And of course AA manual aim wouldn't be a problem for you at all ☆♡☆

 

<---- Warthunder Player.

I am used to manually fire AA Guns at Aircraft that can actually Maneuver and change their Altitude and Speed.

 

Problem in WoWs is. You dont need to Calculate anything.

Aircraft Approach you at 1 out of 2 Preset Altitudes.

So you just need to set your AA to Exlopde in a Choosen Distance at these 2 Altitudes.

And then Pull the Trigger when Enemy Cross Point X to make them Dissappear in a Black Puff of Smoke.

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 2 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

 

<---- Warthunder Player.

I am used to manually fire AA Guns at Aircraft that can actually Maneuver and change their Altitude and Speed.

 

Problem in WoWs is. You dont need to Calculate anything.

Aircraft Approach you at 1 out of 2 Preset Altitudes.

So you just need to set your AA to Exlopde in a Choosen Distance at these 2 Altitudes.

And then Pull the Trigger when Enemy Cross Point X to make them Dissappear in a Black Puff of Smoke.

 

 

Yeah. It can work this way but it would need a completely new system yet again. ☆

[Sunleader]

6 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Yeah. It can work this way but it would need a completely new system yet again. ☆

 

Correct.

If you wanted to have manual AA it would require a complete Rework of the entire Aircraft System.

So they can change Speed and Altitude at will.

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Whatever, another change might come or it might not but what we really need to discuss is WHEN WILL WE GET THIS MADATORY SKIN WG PLS I NEED IT ☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆☆

[1MajorKoenig]

3 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

it is that the gameplay of reworked CVs is infinitely worse for surface ships as they have no effective counterplay options left whatsoev

 

You mean how AA works?

 

I admit I hated the lack of interaction with the old system. Clicking on a squadron and pushing a single button felt monkey stupid to me. Furthermore it was black or white - extremely mechanical and didn’t feel even remotely right. Either you were blasting entire squadrons out of the skies in no time or they absolutely murdered you with devastating alpha. It felt unnatural - however it felt somewhat predictable. Terribly stupid but predictable.

 

Now I admit the “new” AA I also dislike. The Flak clouds are scenic and a nice idea but I still hate the lack of interaction. So if something about the rework is crap than it’s the AA and the fighters 

[Redcap375]

2 hours ago, Saiyko said:

Balancegrad shows it weakness in CBs, where more and more clans only take one. In randoms you can kill club plebs. Who knew one should learn to angle in this game?

 

You can't angle against every ship all the time.  CB involves only 7 players, Randoms 12, the more people the more juicy targets to whack from the other side of the map. 

 

2 Grads with 2 Henry are the norm, with good reason.

 

Anyway it's a CV thread so going off a bit. 

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, Redcap375 sagte:

 

You can't angle against every ship all the time.  CB involves only 7 players, Randoms 12, the more people the more juicy targets to whack from the other side of the map. 

 

2 Grads with 2 Henry are the norm, with good reason.

 

Anyway it's a CV thread so going off a bit. 

 

 

It's fine. ♡

Sometimes you need a break from this CV topic. ☆

And i'm totally not trying to distract you from giving good arguments towards the CV case i am not!♡

[ShinGetsu]

31 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

<---- Warthunder Player.

I am used to manually fire AA Guns at Aircraft that can actually Maneuver and change their Altitude and Speed.

 

Problem in WoWs is. You dont need to Calculate anything.

Aircraft Approach you at 1 out of 2 Preset Altitudes.

So you just need to set your AA to Exlopde in a Choosen Distance at these 2 Altitudes.

And then Pull the Trigger when Enemy Cross Point X to make them Dissappear in a Black Puff of Smoke.

 

 

How should I say this...

 

Warthunder mechanics are overall horrendous, the game is the exact opposite of balanced and it should, by now, never be taken as an example.

Honestly, introducing modern MBT but still having to manually compensate the distance to the target after a laser measurement is so dumb it's actually impressive.

 

3 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

You can't angle against every ship all the time.  CB involves only 7 players, Randoms 12, the more people the more juicy targets to whack from the other side of the map. 

 

2 Grads with 2 Henry are the norm, with good reason.

 

Anyway it's a CV thread so going off a bit. 

 

 

Really ? The norm I see is more 1 Stalin 3 Henri by now. Henri is pretty easy to play and overall strong in all situation, and Stalin have few opportunities to get broadsides targets in CB while it melt pretty quickly to focused fire.

[Redcap375]

33 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

<---- Warthunder Player.

 

You poor soul. 

 

You have seen the full force of Russian Bias in all it's glory.  It completely and utterly trashed that game, the likes of which will never been seen again. 

[ShinGetsu]

Just now, Redcap375 said:

 

You poor soul. 

 

You have seen the full force of Russian Bias in all it's glory.  It completely and utterly trashed that game, the likes of which will never been seen again. 

It's more German/US bias by now. Soviets lost a lot of their former glory in this game. And the other nations are just here to be easy targets and a potential source of income for Gaijin.

[1MajorKoenig]

Question:

 

Does anyone know what’s behind this outlook from the WOWS page:

 

„The mechanics of the priority AA sectors will be completely redesigned. We decided to change not only the visual component, but also to significantly improve the interaction of the ship with squadrons. It is too early to talk about any details, but the main goal that we want to achieve is for the player to get more effective AA with the proper use of the priority AA sectors and the choice of appropriate skills and upgrades.“

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 9 Minuten, 1MajorKoenig sagte:

„The mechanics of the priority AA sectors will be completely redesigned. We decided to change not only the visual component, but also to significantly improve the interaction of the ship with squadrons. It is too early to talk about any details, but the main goal that we want to achieve is for the player to get more effective AA with the proper use of the priority AA sectors and the choice of appropriate skills and upgrades.“

It's basically a more complex sector system that will reward the player with more effective AA success in shooting down planes.

Also upgrades and captain skills regarding AA will be more regarding to picin combination with reworked AA sector things.

 

I suspect a better response time to switching sectors and being able to assign bonuses to specifically behind/front of the ship. Also i suspect to be able to assign more then one reinforced sector. Maybe even a kind of wheel that lets you turn them to whichever angle you need them to be most effective.

[Sunleader]

40 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

You mean how AA works?

 

I admit I hated the lack of interaction with the old system. Clicking on a squadron and pushing a single button felt monkey stupid to me. Furthermore it was black or white - extremely mechanical and didn’t feel even remotely right. Either you were blasting entire squadrons out of the skies in no time or they absolutely murdered you with devastating alpha. It felt unnatural - however it felt somewhat predictable. Terribly stupid but predictable.

 

Now I admit the “new” AA I also dislike. The Flak clouds are scenic and a nice idea but I still hate the lack of interaction. So if something about the rework is crap than it’s the AA and the fighters 

 

The whole Rework Sucks....

 

35 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

You can't angle against every ship all the time.  CB involves only 7 players, Randoms 12, the more people the more juicy targets to whack from the other side of the map. 

 

2 Grads with 2 Henry are the norm, with good reason.

 

Anyway it's a CV thread so going off a bit. 

 

 

 

Thing is. CV can easily Attack you enough to count as 5 other Ships.

 

32 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

It's fine. ♡

Sometimes you need a break from this CV topic. ☆

And i'm totally not trying to distract you from giving good arguments towards the CV case i am not!♡

 

Its exactly this behavior which makes me treat you like your Children....

 

31 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

How should I say this...

 

Warthunder mechanics are overall horrendous, the game is the exact opposite of balanced and it should, by now, never be taken as an example.

Honestly, introducing modern MBT but still having to manually compensate the distance to the target after a laser measurement is so dumb it's actually impressive.

 

Really ? The norm I see is more 1 Stalin 3 Henri by now. Henri is pretty easy to play and overall strong in all situation, and Stalin have few opportunities to get broadsides targets in CB while it melt pretty quickly to focused fire.

 

War Thunder is trying to be Realistic.

Not Balanced.

For Tank and Aircraft Gameplay. Its way Superior to Wargaming.

Its Ship Gameplay is woefully behind tough....

 

28 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

 

You poor soul. 

 

You have seen the full force of Russian Bias in all it's glory.  It completely and utterly trashed that game, the likes of which will never been seen again. 

 

You get used to it.

Just means you need skills if you dont play Russian Vehicles.

 

7 minutes ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

Question:

 

Does anyone know what’s behind this outlook from the WOWS page:

 

„The mechanics of the priority AA sectors will be completely redesigned. We decided to change not only the visual component, but also to significantly improve the interaction of the ship with squadrons. It is too early to talk about any details, but the main goal that we want to achieve is for the player to get more effective AA with the proper use of the priority AA sectors and the choice of appropriate skills and upgrades.“

 

Well.

Maybe their other Statement of not doing a Rework again has shifted faster than we expected.

 

WG is not around since yesterday.

If an Amateur Modder like me can see that the current System cannot work.

And cannot be fixed unless they completely rework it.

Then WG should realize that as well.

 

I am reluctant to get my hopes up tough....

[ShinGetsu]

1 minute ago, Sunleader said:

War Thunder is trying to be Realistic.

Not Balanced.

For Tank and Aircraft Gameplay. Its way Superior to Wargaming.

Its Ship Gameplay is woefully behind tough...

And they fail at realism too.

And a PVP game that isn't balanced is also terrible. Nobody wants to be clubbed. That's exactly the point of those CV rework threads.

As for tanks gameplay being superior to WG, it's very subjective. WoT got a lot of good points too.

[1MajorKoenig]

2 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

The whole Rework Sucks....

 

One opinion anong several thousands. But thanks for sharing 

 

However some of the statement about AA were interesting. 

 

Seeing planes only move in 2d as well basically indeed raises the question how increase AA interaction without making AA unavoidable. I am very curious what WG is cooking behind closed doors!

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 7 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

Its exactly this behavior which makes me treat you like your Children....

You can treat me however you like but i don't have children ☆

 

[Sunleader]

3 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

And they fail at realism too.

And a PVP game that isn't balanced is also terrible. Nobody wants to be clubbed. That's exactly the point of those CV rework threads.

As for tanks gameplay being superior to WG, it's very subjective. WoT got a lot of good points too.

 

WT is closer to Realism than most other Games at least.

As for WoT vs WT.

Well its a perspective I guess.

WoT certainly nails the Arcade Gameplay better than WT does with its AB Mode.

 

1 minute ago, 1MajorKoenig said:

 

One opinion anong several thousands. But thanks for sharing 

 

However some of the statement about AA were interesting. 

 

Seeing planes only move in 2d as well basically indeed raises the question how increase AA interaction without making AA unavoidable. I am very curious what WG is cooking behind closed doors!

 

Indeed.

Albeit I would dare claiming that my Opinion reflects the vast Majority right now.

 

 

And Yes.

I am fairly Interested as well.

I hope its not just a Fancy new Interface with 8 instead of 2 Sectors which then give 200% instead 125% (without skills or upgrades)

[1MajorKoenig]

Just now, Sunleader said:

Indeed.

Albeit I would dare claiming that my Opinion reflects the vast Majority right now.

 

Sorry - what I meant was: you have your opinion, others have other opinions. Not that the majority shares yours - it looks like the playerbase is pretty much divided over this 

 

But anyway: AA is in need of some rework if we want to call it like that. More interaction would be good !

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

I hope its not just a Fancy new Interface with 8 instead of 2 Sectors which then give 200% instead 125% (without skills or upgrades)

Knowing WG it will be exactly that.

 

Other than that... dunno, directional AA? As in only 25% dps forward, but 100% when broadside. Ideally would be setting LoS/firing arcs for each AA gun, but considering sheer amount of them multiplied by amount of ships... sounds like perfect penal job for misbehaving developer