CV Rework Discussion

[ApolloF117]

1 hour ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

WG changed radar a little, yes. It's a small nerf.

 If you compare removing of spotting to CVs it's a whole othe level of nerf for the average CV player. Hardly a good comparison to make.

 i didnt compare radar to cv spoting , all i say is if enough player cry long enogh, there will be a change, just like with radar, cant even remember how much page did that forum topic reached xd

 

1 hour ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

It's consistent dps damage to planes. Sometimes planes die faster depending on the CV players skill to dodge the flak clouds.

Thats the problem right there, cv only need to dodge the flak clouds which is predicted by an ai that can  be easily  outplayed , and the fix minimal damage the planes took from the AA is meaningless as i experienced

[Prospect_b]

 

- skillgap is no problem, as long as it isn't too wide

- current skillgap width is "just about right, but close to the border (of too large)"

 

wow. 10/10 for newspeak

 

Also: muhahaha. Having a decent CV vs potato one is probably back at the state where it was in rts - i.e. you should go back to port instead of wasting 15 minutes of time.

 

 

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 3 Minuten, ApolloF117 sagte:

 i didnt compare radar to cv spoting , all i say is if enough player cry long enogh, there will be a change, just like with radar, cant even remember how much page did that forum topic reached xd

 

Thats the problem right there, cv only need to dodge the flak clouds which is predicted by an ai that can  be easily  outplayed , and the fix minimal damage the planes took from the AA is meaningless as i experienced

No, the AI aim is flawless. It can't be any more accurate. You don't understand.

The way the AA works you will always be able to dodge. A human could never be as accurate as current AA and if the human player were the same effect would be achieved.

 

 

That's it, there is nothing more we need to talk about anymore since you simply don't get it.

But my offer is still there.

 

 

[ApolloF117]

6 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

No, the AI aim is flawless. It can't be any more accurate. You don't understand.

The way the AA works you will always be able to dodge. A human could never be as accurate as current AA and if the human player were the same effect would be achieved.

Yes its flawless if the planes fly in a straight vector that the ai can predict and just zoom in, while a human one sees the path where might the planes go and shoot there, this can be easily observe , manual secondary ai vs main battery human, the ai wont hit a manuverig target unless its slow and has the size of a yamato, while some magic reason players can hit a manuverig destroyer even past 15km

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 12 Minuten, ApolloF117 sagte:

Yes its flawless if the planes fly in a straight vector that the ai can predict and just zoom in, while a human one sees the path where might the planes go and shoot there, this can be easily observe , manual secondary ai vs main battery human, the ai wont hit a manuverig target unless its slow and has the size of a yamato, while some magic reason players can hit a manuverig destroyer even past 15km

YOU DONT UNDERSTAND!

The AI predicts perfectly, you just always have enough time to dodge, thr human also has the margin for error spawning flak not even in the path of planes where i as a CV have more thrn enough time to recognise the error and continue flying Straight you just don't get it!

Flak always spawns in the planes flightpath, you always have enough time to dodge it. There can't be any possible aiming solution which doesnt allow dodging!

Please just stop with your assumptions if you don't even understand how flak works and spawns!

 

It's always exactly in your planes flightpath. You always have enough time to dodge it. That's it. Humans will never be able to aim better then the AI ESPECIALLY DURING THE LIMITED TIME THERE IS TO AIM AT PLANES

[ApolloF117]

30 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

OU DONT UNDERSTAND!

Yes i understand you like the way of aa works right now that you can dodge most of the AA with minimal dmg taken yet drop everything on the target.

Sadly wg forgot that ships not only fired with large caliber flaks, but high caliber aa guns which didnt made nice black firework around the planes but shred them to pieces.... Thats why most of the planes got shot down in naval battles not because of some flak, wg mistook this flak system with the traditional high altitude long range bombing where flak was the most effective weapons against them

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 13 Minuten, ApolloF117 sagte:

Yes i understand you like the way of aa works right now that you can dodge most of the AA with minimal dmg taken yet drop everything on the target.

Sadly wg forgot that ships not only fired with large caliber flaks, but high caliber aa guns which didnt made nice black firework around the planes but shred them to pieces.... Thats why most of the planes got shot down in naval battles not because of some flak, wg mistook this flak system with the traditional high altitude long range bombing where flak was the most effective weapons against them

What does this have to do with anything?

Are you going to ask WG to overhaul the AA system? You didn't get what Sub_Octavian said in the screenshots i posted?

They are going to improve sector AA impact and effectiveness, that's it.

There will be no manual fire AA.

There will be no historical AA because that was even less effective.

You get what we have now, it will be improved for surface ship - plane interaction and thats all you gotta get. you either learn how it works or you don't.

That's all there is to say.

You can continue on saying stuff like nerfs will come after years of crying like radar.

Who cares let them come, balance is welcome.

What will not come however is a removal or isolation of CV.

And what also won't come is the removal of relevance towards average players in the CV class.

As i see it you are not interested in learning.

It's a shame.

 

 

[Sunleader]

8 hours ago, WynnZeroOne said:

I did know this several days ago already. If you were less argumentative and not looking for an argument all the time you'd have read what I wrote properly.

 

I simply said "PTS ranked seemed to work out just fine, teams moved as fleets, DD's and CV's spotted. Not particularly salty considering many people treat PTS like it's life and death." At no point in the statement have I implied that this information is new, or has just come to me or should be news to anyone else.

 

As usual, in your typically arrogant and pompous fervour to challenge every post I've made since I initially corrected you over 48hrs ago, you've jumped the gun and made yourself look foolish. Again!

 

You'll be wanting to change your username for  second time in 48hrs? 

Yup, we won't know what occurring until it goes live. Not enough people on PTS tbh.

 

You Apparently dont even know now lol.

Otherwise you would Realize that PTS Ranked is not Working out Fine at all.

I dont consider it Fine when CVs are Useless and Cannot Bomb anything because their Squadrons just get Deleted by Automatic AA.

The only thing that happened there is that the Problem got Shifted to the other Side of the Argument.

 

 

Also. I dont know what kind of hallucinations you got now again.

But my Username has not been Changed even once.

I joined this Game in 2012. You can Confirm that in the Forum and Check any Posts I made since then by Checking my Content.

And I have been Named Sunleader in pretty much any Game I play since 1999

 

[ApolloF117]

3 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

You didn't get what Sub_Octavian said in the screenshots i posted?

Nah, they lied too many times to even consider believe to them, i will belive it when it happens :D

 

5 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

There will be no historical AA because that was even less effective

Just like aircrafts was way less effective?:D You didn't read this too carefuly didn't you? While most of the damage now what we have is in flak, in reality it was in the high caliber guns that wich had insane rof and he/incendiary bullets/shells... But i see you are too passionate defending something that is rushed into the game so i leave you be and keep balancing cvs myself in the game xd

 

[El2aZeR]

6 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Sub Octavian is a beast.

 

More like a hilarious liar.

We have hard data that there are players that do just as well as in the RTS iteration. Meanwhile potatoes are reaching levels of failure that we have never seen before in all the years of RTS CV play. This means the skill gap has most definitely not decreased.

 

S_O basically assumes we're too stupid to check stats.

[svadilfari]

On 5/14/2019 at 12:51 PM, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Anti CV crowd asks for all the nerfs BUT ALSO ASKS for an alternative gamemode!

 

no, that´s not the point. the concept of the rework is broken, having a constant presence of planes everywhere, hunting you down with no counter (especially not from friendly cv)

there is no fixing or balancing reworked cvs

the core mechanic is broken (and boring)

you can either make them op or near useless

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 2 Minuten, El2aZeR sagte:

 

More like a hilarious liar.

We have hard data that there are players that do just as well as in the RTS iteration. Meanwhile potatoes are reaching levels of failure that we have never seen before in all the years of RTS CV play. This means the skill gap has most definitely not decreased.

 

S_O basically assumes we're too stupid to check stats.

It's easier to reach these levels of potatoness with such an increase in CV population.

The new CVs are easier to get into, to pick up. Many have even complained about "how easy" CVs are to play now didn't you @LemonadeWarrior

The accessability is there, the population is there. S_O is lying and that is your opinion because you dismiss everything and are just very bitter. You haven't said anything positive yet about this all. If you have i must have missed it under the mountain of negativity.

You call average players who's enjoyment is the target of WG irrelevant. If your own vision and goals stray away so far from what WG tries to get to then there is no wonder you would view it all as a unfixable unbalanceable totally flawed mess.

 

The most important thing that S_O is saying about the skillgap is that Unicums get rewarded while potatos get punished. This is true for every class in this game and it should be like that. You should be able to perform as you do while orange/red people who simply can't or don't want to get behind it will get punished foe it by bad rewards and bad stats.

This is how games work. Everyone gets a chance.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 3 Minuten, svadilfari sagte:

no, that´s not the point. the concept of the rework is broken, having a constant presence of planes everywhere, hunting you down with no counter (especially not from friendly cv)

there is no fixing or balancing reworked cvs

the core mechanic is broken (and boring)

you can either make them op or near useless

Stop parroting others. Prove it to me.

The rework isn't half a year old yet, tweaking and balancing hasn't finished yet. Potatos are still potatos.

 

[El2aZeR]

1 minute ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

It's easier to reach these levels of potatoness with such an increase in CV population.

 

Total RTS CV players still far outnumber the total amount of reworked CV players by virtue of the former having existed for a far longer time span. If what you were saying is true then there should be far more abysmally performing RTS CV players than reworked CV players.

 

6 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

You haven't said anything positive yet about this all.

 

Because from a gameplay perspective there is nothing particularly positive about reworked CVs. Sure, I could say that e.g. the visuals are pretty good, but the negative aspects far outweigh the positive ones, thus the latter are not worth talking about.

From a business perspective on the other hand I'm sure reworked CVs have been a success so far, but does that really matter to us?

[DFens_666]

23 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

S_O basically assumes we're too stupid to check stats.

 

WG sikrit data better than what we have, is no problem komrade

TBF, he couldnt have said anything else, it would be admitting that the rework was a failure from that pov.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Well you can continue assuming that WG is the evil villain only looking at profit and hiding the truth.

After all how can the developer know it any better right?

 

[El2aZeR]

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

After all how can the developer know it any better right?

 

This isn't exactly the first instance they've lied directly to our faces.

[ApolloF117]

1 minute ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Well you can continue assuming that WG is the evil villain only looking at profit and hiding the truth.

After all how can the developer know it any better right?

Exactly, because if the dev says it have to be right, there is no other option, they didnt teach you in school to not believe everythinhg you read or hear ? We are not assuming anything, wg prooved itself that they are after the money and hiding the truth too many times

[anonym_WQDIB9XrzbSp]

49 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

You Apparently dont even know now lol.

Otherwise you would Realize that PTS Ranked is not Working out Fine at all.

 

Again with the assumption that your own opinions override everyone else.

 

Now, until you can learn to discuss the opinions of others instead of simply trying to slam everyone down, your best bet is to just wind your neck in. Because you've basically spent several days telling people they are wrong based on your opinion being different, whilst regurgitating the same lines over and over again, none of which are actually a discussion point or counter, all of which are subjective, all of which are delivered in the manner of a behaviorally challenged toddler.

[DFens_666]

4 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Well you can continue assuming that WG is the evil villain only looking at profit and hiding the truth.

After all how can the developer know it any better right?

 

 

1. what El2aZeR said

2. how can they possible know what they are doing, when they sometimes create new ships which are just broken (either good or bad)? People, who are playing this game for a longer time, and arent mashed potatoes, will see how a ship will perform just by looking at the stats. BBs with Cruiser dispersion? In which world would that be balanced? They tried it with GC first (then nerfed it a bit but its still OP), now they did a worse version of it on Pobeda. Or lately they didnt know what to with Neustra. First was below average. Then they slapped a zombie heal on it, which was broken af OP (no surprise there), so they nerfed the heal again and i think it might still be too strong.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Are you going to bring up that they said there would never be t9 prems for sale or steel for sale?

So if you dismiss what WG is telling you then who are you believing and why are you still playing the game of a in your opinion dishonest company?

If it doesn't matter what WG tells you and you only want to hear what you like to hear how is it ever going to get better?

It will never get any better and i'm glad that WG is calling you and your consipiracy theories out openly on reddit.

You should start setting your pitchforks on fire now btw.

The goals are more clear now so what's going to happen from here on out? ;)

[Sunleader]

2 minutes ago, WynnZeroOne said:

Again with the assumption that your own opinions override everyone else.

 

Now, until you can learn to discuss the opinions of others instead of simply trying to slam everyone down, your best bet is to just wind your neck in. Because you've basically spent several days telling people they are wrong based on your opinion being different, whilst regurgitating the same lines over and over again, none of which are actually a discussion point or counter, all of which are subjective, all of which are delivered in the manner of a behaviorally challenged toddler.

 

Oh look...

Another Insult.

And another post only about me instead of bringing any arguments on the Topic.

 

I am soooo Impressed ^^

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 2 Minuten, DFens_666 sagte:

 

1. what El2aZeR said

2. how can they possible know what they are doing, when they sometimes create new ships which are just broken (either good or bad)? People, who are playing this game for a longer time, and arent mashed potatoes, will see how a ship will perform just by looking at the stats. BBs with Cruiser dispersion? In which world would that be balanced? They tried it with GC first (then nerfed it a bit but its still OP), now they did a worse version of it on Pobeda. Or lately they didnt know what to with Neustra. First was below average. Then they slapped a zombie heal on it, which was broken af OP (no surprise there), so they nerfed the heal again and i think it might still be too strong.

Why are you still playing this game?

Pobeda is work in progress.Btw S_O adressed the Pobeda issue too. But he is lying aaanyway right?

 

Tell me about the OP ship you are talking about, Stalingrad?!

Ah it's Enterprise right?

Yes continue on with all that it shows that you know much better how the game should be developed and work.

 

[radius77]

I'm a bad CV capt'n - pre-rework and now. here are some poitns:

 

+

Definitely it's easier to operate planes

Gameplay more focused on spot/damage rather than avoiding enemy fighters

 

-

Rework made many games a 3-min-skirmish because of extensive spotting and early deletion of DDs. After that it's just a hunt for frags and dmg.

Logic of AA, DfAA, "flak bursts" is hard to grasp.

Squad-management is unimportant because of "infinitive" planes.

 

What to change - Imho the same issue as before rework.

 

Planes should have an "action timer" to execute attack (like 30-60 sec depending on tier, type, skills etc).

It's still a bulls.... that one can use one squad to fly around the map spotting everything or cruising forever over a hopeless DD just to keep spot.

 

 

[anonym_WQDIB9XrzbSp]

Just now, Sunleader said:

 

Oh look...

Another Insult.

And another post only about me instead of bringing any arguments on the Topic.

 

I am soooo Impressed ^^

Again with the victim flag.

 

If clarifying for you that you've not made a sensible argument in pages of shouting down anyone who either disagrees with you or has a suggestion is an insult you really are in trouble.

 

I'm glad your impressed, I'm not. Up you pop with your capital letters everywhere, arrogantly and pompously damning anyone elses opinion with nothing other than your own confirmation bias and no intention of an actual discourse, pandering to the tired line that nothing will work apart from removal of the rework only to cry insult when somebody challenges you. It's not impressive at all. It's a disappointment quite frankly.

 

Transparent agenda. Zero tangible contribution to discussion. Behavioural inability to engage in debate. Small wonder I assumed you were Sobchaak