CV Rework Discussion

[FooFaFie]

24 minutes ago, ApolloF117 said:

We have simple AA now and its barely usefull now, you would make it complex so it would be a total waste of coding and just as crap as the one we have now?

You do know you WG can make the AA as strong as they want. If WG wanted too they could make AA sector that is 100% deadly. Of course with the current 1 side  AA sector (=180° degree sector) you can hardly do it. If the AA is to strong the CV has zero chance. AA to weak it even doesn't matter which side you take (and that's how it feels now). 

 

But if you only do it with a 60/45/30 degree section WG can start playing with  very effective AA. They could give ships   different sizes of sections.

[Procrastes]

Any AA interaction more complex than the one we have now - that is, choosing of AA sectors - would make AA management too taxing in an environment that already demands quite high levels of multi-tasking. This is especially true when you're in a destroyer. So please, no more complexity!

 

Personally, I was fairly happy with the system we had before, where you could focus on a certain plane squadron by Ctrl-clicking on it - but I've gathered that this has been found to be unsuited to the current meta. At least with the AA sector system, your AA is improved versus all plane squadrons in the chosen sector. According to what I've heard, there are ongoing efforts to further modify how AA works.

[Namuras]

1 hour ago, Procrastes said:

I was one of those who argued against a wider acceptance of individual nerfs to premium ships. They way I saw it, such nerfs should be used only as a last resort, and when it was necessary in order to keep the game healthy. I will leave the actual reasoning aside here - and for God's sake, let's not start that debate all over again! - but I'd like to say, here, that I would unequivocally support any and all nerfs to carriers, premiums and non-premiums, that was done in order to create a balanced game environment. And I say this as an owner of all four premium carriers.

 

The CV rework is simply too big an issue, for the overall game, to founder on a matter of principle such as this. Getting the CV rework to function is, as I see it, a concern of such importance that it trumps the arguments against nerfing premium ships.

I was for changeing OP Prems. Maybe not uptier if possible, but change them atleast. Even if i own all of the OP prems there are. 

 

But you can't have your cake and eat it too... So no, they won't directly touch the prem CVs. And if they do... expect them to come for the Kami's, GC, Belfasts and whatnot.

That gives them the possibility to milk players with OP prems just to nerf them once sales are slowing down or introduce the next FotM.

 

1 hour ago, bloodynicknames said:

but they already did in the past ... kutuzov smoke nerf for instance

Those where global changes to smoke firing. They even advertised the Blysca as beeing able to OWSF and then changed that mechanic. 

They can and will do such changes. But doing this to reign in e.g. the Big E will hit all other CVs much harder than her. 

[AirSupremacy]

2 hours ago, Yedwy said:

I must say yesterday I got really wexed, cvs ruined like half the matchess i played, ie I take out Algiere, after some warm up action I manage to isolate an enemy counterpart and catch him coming out behind the island broadside, start closing in to clobber him mbrb just about to come out of cooldown aaand enemy kaga drops me, having DFAA didnt mean   ofc so now i have a choice eat 3 torps or eat one but show full broadside to enemy algiere...

 

Ok next match missouri go with a seattle and 2 dds twards cap (in island cover btw), here comes a midway - triple bomb run plus on from the long range by half of the red team couse of spotting, dead before i could do 20k damage... 

Division play as a unit of 3 friends works great IMHO ( 1x T10 mega AA ship included ) .

The rework enforces more team play, if players want to be good and carry the game.

 

A 3x player division where each player does +100K damage in their stats will often rule the match.

 

 

[AirSupremacy]

11 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Last 21 days, mostly solo:

 

 

My guess is they're gonna pull her from sale. I don't believe they have any other choice really. A T8 CV that is more powerful than most T10 CVs is way too broken to remain as is.

Doing the same 120K average damage in the Lexington or silver or gold T8 carriers

is performed by good players, the 130K emblem suits T8 & T10 CV players.

 

Wishing everybody a nice day and happy WoWs :)

[Sunleader]

7 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Oh no,

 

Oh no. That's not toxic behavior.

Toxic behavior is what @Tirande

showed in his chat screenshots.

People like them have no place in this gamechat. And if they use the CV rework as an excuse to behave like that they should just quit and make the game a better place for everyone. I myself don't behave like that in the game and in the forums i don't give a ☆ about you complaining. I am happy with the rework and happy to harvest your salty complains. I enjoy all this. So you can all complain as much as you like, open as many threads as you like and say whatever fits your narrative. The more creative you get with your complains the more i enjoy them.

I'm "attacking" people you say. But i have never personally attacked anyone yet. I guess you are a bit to sensitive ☆♡☆

 

Toxic behavior describes any behavior that is causing harm or conflict to others. Either Intentional or due to a Person being Egoistic and Ignoring that harm or conflict in favor of his own wishes.

 

And Mate dont get me wrong.

 

But your other Post didnt even bother Mentioning the CV Rework.

Your Post only caused Conflict and made a Provocation and Indirect Insult :)

That is in Fact Toxic behavior.

 

Your Post now is another Example.

Harvesting Salt are we.

Making Fun of People and being Happy that others are Unhappy.

On Purpose Provoking and Mocking them.

 

 

Thats a Prime Example of Toxic behavior Mate :)

Albeit this one is a bit of my Fault.

Because I made the Accusation of you being Toxic which caused you to ignore reason and go into a Defensive Position and make this second Comment where your trying to brush away any feeling or weakness.

Thats a pretty Human reaction.  And its Fine.

 

 

Talking Human Reactions I.ll also make another Toxic Comment there due to your Post causing me Frustration.

Yes I can Imagine that you like the CV Rework. Your Obviously abusing the Crab out of the current CV meta with absurdly Overpowered CVs.

And given your comment about Salt Mining. You apparently really Enjoy being Toxic and are having alot of Fun causing other Players Frustration and Mine their Salt.

So you liking this is absolutely not Surprising :)

 

 

Well then.

I will stop poking you now.

Its Off Topic and doesnt belong here.

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Procrastes said:

One should note that this is probably historically accurate... finally, those who keep campaigning for more historical accuracy in this game, can have a field day...!

 

Sorry.

But no.

Seriously. The CV Rework is not Historically Accurate.

Pls dont say such things. Not even as a Joke.

 

If we wanted to Talk Historical Accuracy.

Most Aircraft Torpedoes (Or Torpedoes in General) would not do any Damage to Battleships. And Carriers would certainly not have Unlimited Aircraft....

 

 

2 hours ago, Ruth_clifton said:

How can you steer your ship to a  safe  place  IN  O.8.4   UPDATE

 

You cant.

I dont even know what this crab is about they talk there.

45 Seconds Delay to Carrier Squadrons only causes a boring 45 Seconds for the Carrier and a 45 Second Delay of Death to the Surface Ship that is Targeted.

 

Delaying the Inevitable by 45 Seconds doesnt Solve the Problem.

The Problem is that currently being hit by CVs is Inevitable. You cannot do anything about it and cannot prevent it.

Delaying it by 45 Seconds does not change the Problem. Its just pushing the Problem 45 Seconds into the Future....

 

 

 

[leeuwbart]

3 hours ago, svadilfari said:

we are not ready for it? you joking? so in your mind we should just accept the clustertruck that was, is and will be this f´ing rework?

haha the player base is not ready for another crapsandwich.

ok then ...

yes i indeed mean that the playerbase is not ready cause of all the insults being thrown out there, the complaining at a reworked class which people want to be removed etc. 

you also unrightfully assume that i accept the rework like it is, i never stated that so i am unsure how you can get that in your mind aswell.

[DreadArchangel]

10 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

Toxic behavior describes any behavior that is causing harm or conflict to others. Either Intentional or due to a Person being Egoistic and Ignoring that harm or conflict in favor of his own wishes.

 

And Mate dont get me wrong.

 

But your other Post didnt even bother Mentioning the CV Rework.

Your Post only caused Conflict and made a Provocation and Indirect Insult :)

That is in Fact Toxic behavior.

 

Your Post now is another Example.

Harvesting Salt are we.

Making Fun of People and being Happy that others are Unhappy.

On Purpose Provoking and Mocking them.

 

 

Thats a Prime Example of Toxic behavior Mate :)

Albeit this one is a bit of my Fault.

Because I made the Accusation of you being Toxic which caused you to ignore reason and go into a Defensive Position and make this second Comment where your trying to brush away any feeling or weakness.

Thats a pretty Human reaction.  And its Fine.

 

 

Talking Human Reactions I.ll also make another Toxic Comment there due to your Post causing me Frustration.

Yes I can Imagine that you like the CV Rework. Your Obviously abusing the Crab out of the current CV meta with absurdly Overpowered CVs.

And given your comment about Salt Mining. You apparently really Enjoy being Toxic and are having alot of Fun causing other Players Frustration and Mine their Salt.

So you liking this is absolutely not Surprising :)

 

 

Well then.

I will stop poking you now.

Its Off Topic and doesnt belong here.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry.

But no.

Seriously. The CV Rework is not Historically Accurate.

Pls dont say such things. Not even as a Joke.

 

If we wanted to Talk Historical Accuracy.

Most Aircraft Torpedoes (Or Torpedoes in General) would not do any Damage to Battleships. And Carriers would certainly not have Unlimited Aircraft....

 

 

 

You cant.

I dont even know what this crab is about they talk there.

45 Seconds Delay to Carrier Squadrons only causes a boring 45 Seconds for the Carrier and a 45 Second Delay of Death to the Surface Ship that is Targeted.

 

Delaying the Inevitable by 45 Seconds doesnt Solve the Problem.

The Problem is that currently being hit by CVs is Inevitable. You cannot do anything about it and cannot prevent it.

Delaying it by 45 Seconds does not change the Problem. Its just pushing the Problem 45 Seconds into the Future....

 

 

 

Just something you said about historical, neither would dd torps either historicaly the dd was an escort /subhunter, not the ninja it is today, with incredible torps, low visability, and of course smoke, the air drop torps  do do little damage, with the tier 10 american tb's doing around the 4k mark before taking off any torp protection  that ships have.

 

Also aa was not that accurate to be honest, it was more of a case of putting as much  as possible in front of attacking planes and hoping for the best.

 

Also historicaly the cv was the king of the sea its plain and simple , which is waht caused the end of bb's in wg its far from it.

 

So lets leave historical out of it, because this game is not, its a game with  game mechanics.

 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

If you wish for a balanced game, you can go play chess. And even there white has an advantage. And let's not debate that it has been proven, for humans it's not really important.

Toxicity is subjective. If you feel that i'm toxic towards you then you need to grow thicker skin instead of throwing me in with the same people who call for CVs to X themselves or call CV players deseases and whores.

 

As again. Making fun of the current situation is the only way to stay sane trying to read what you guys (anti CV crowd) are fabricating.

For you it is okay to throw people who like such a game mode under the bus because "muh balance".

The CVs are still being balanced, even prem CV are being affected by global "CV" changes (the smoke nerf also included cruisers who can use smoke. more global isn't it?).

You shrug your shoulders mostly and open daily threads calling for not thought out and unreasonable changes and get angry because apparently the Devs aren't listening.

You got nerfed what you asked them to nerf EVERY TIME just not in the absurd strenght you asked them to do it and you know why? Because it would kill the average player hard. But you obviously don't care.

 

Anti CV crowd asks for all the nerfs BUT ALSO ASKS for an alternative gamemode!

 

If there wa an alternative gamemmode why nerf CV at all then?

This is prime toxic behavior. You don't want CV players to have any sort of enjoyment. You want CVs nerfed until they are removed. All these calls for nerfs always go far enough to make the class literally useless.

 

And you repeat thr same points every single day.

And you tell me i'm toxic for enjoying this. You are the most toxic people WOWS has ever seen, willing to kill the enjoyment of many average players who just found their way to a new class calling CV players bad names treating them the worst in ingame chat and not giving a ☆ about players like me who payed big money for prem ships and containers contributing to suppprting WG in a free to play game.

 

I have talked to some people who are total casuals who really enjoy this rework. They don't even know about this forum war. What they know about however is the toxicity and abuse they recieve. Who cares about me mining salt here when ☆ like described by Tirande is happening ingame.

 

Do whatever you like. But it would be better if you would be able to give better solutions then 0/1 ones.

Also remember that Support CV line is still on the way. It will possibly be the anti CV solution you are looking for since they will tie exp rewards to plane dmg.

[B051LjKo]

Funny how peoples arguments are modified from case to case. When Conquerer does 200K of damage, then that is not an issue, as that is ''useless, fully repairable fire damage'', and when Midway does the same with his HE dive bombers, that that is no longer useless but ''OP to hell and backwords''...

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 5 Minuten, B051LjKo sagte:

Funny how peoples arguments are modified from case to case. When Conquerer does 200K of damage, then that is not an issue, as that is ''useless, fully repairable fire damage'', and when Midway does the same with his HE dive bombers, that that is no longer useless but ''OP to hell and backwords''...

Midway in RTS could drop once with HE bombers achieving up to 20k alpha and multiple fires.

I can now drop 4 times for at least 10k dmg each with multiple fires.

I can see where they are coming from. But the alpha isn't really important here, could as well remove it and they would still cry

[B051LjKo]

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Midway in RTS could drop once with HE bombers achieving up to 20k alpha and multiple fires.

I can now drop 4 times for at least 10k dmg each with multiple fires.

I can see where they are coming from. But the alpha isn't really important here, could as well remove it and they would still cry

What target can you attack four times to reliability get at lease 10K each round? Musashi, maybe, who else?

 

We can go the other way around alos, who is in a better position Z52 or Grozovoi against a Hakuryu, or Yamato against Z52 or Grozovoi. We are talking 1 vs 1 engadgements here?

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, B051LjKo sagte:

What target can you attack four times to reliability get at lease 10K each round? Musashi, maybe, who else?

 

We can go the other way around alos, who is in a better position Z52 or Grozovoi against a Hakuryu, or Yamato against Z52 or Grozovoi. We are talking 1 vs 1 engadgements here?

Hakuryo will have better results in my hands. It's very easy to deal with both DDs especially with those rocket planes.

Why even make that comparison now?

Midway HE alpha currently is completely outperforming RTS HE by a mile. I can relyably drop a full life Kurfürst 3 times with Midway HE bombs resulting in at least 60k dmg (same attack squadron)

[B051LjKo]

1 minute ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

Hakuryo will have better results in my hands. It's very easy to deal with both DDs especially with those rocket planes.

Why even make that comparison now?

It is very easy to deal with potato Grozovoi. If a DD knows what he is doing, you will not be able to kill him for at least 10 minutes even if you focus fully on him, that is the point.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 3 Minuten, B051LjKo sagte:

It is very easy to deal with potato Grozovoi. If a DD knows what he is doing, you will not be able to kill him for at least 10 minutes even if you focus fully on him, that is the point.

Yes, you can't kill a Grozovoi under 10minutes with Haku if it utilizes smoke and DFAA correctly while maneuvering correctly in a 1on1 situation.

You kill it in 5 minutes however if it uses it's guns

[Kathapalt]

16 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

Funny how peoples arguments are modified from case to case. When Conquerer does 200K of damage, then that is not an issue, as that is ''useless, fully repairable fire damage'', and when Midway does the same with his HE dive bombers, that that is no longer useless but ''OP to hell and backwords''...

Because  with Conqueror  person can:

-  avoid the conqueror taking the opposite flank

-  kite so you are harder to hit and get to your stealth range

-  run behind island so conq cant hit you

-  fire back and do damage

 

When conq shoots you, you have:

-  been too agressive

-  did not read minimap

-  did not follow the flow of battle

-  went too close

-  left cover too early

-  been pushing at wrong time

 

With Midway a person can:

- hope he is not targeting you and that´s it.

 

When midway shoot you, you have:

- pushed random battles button

 

As you can, the player can do things to avoid conq, not so much with midway

[ApolloF117]

2 hours ago, Micklenmob said:

But if you only do it with a 60/45/30 degree section WG can start playing with  very effective AA. They could give ships   different sizes of sections. 

we allready have it, called large/medium/small, ring any bells?

[B051LjKo]

12 minutes ago, Kathapalt said:

Because  with Conqueror  person can:

-  avoid the conqueror taking the opposite flank

-  kite so you are harder to hit and get to your stealth range

-  run behind island so conq cant hit you

-  fire back and do damage

 

When conq shoots you, you have:

-  been too agressive

-  did not read minimap

-  did not follow the flow of battle

-  went too close

-  left cover too early

-  been pushing at wrong time

 

With Midway a person can:

- hope he is not targeting you and that´s it.

 

When midway shoot you, you have:

- pushed random battles button

 

As you can, the player can do things to avoid conq, not so much with midway

I do not agree with your statement, but that is fully irrelevant. My point was ,the damage is already done, it doesnt matter how, it just is.... Why is Conqueres fires considered as useless, and Midways firews are brutally OP?

[ApolloF117]

10 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

I do not agree with your statement, but that is fully irrelevant. My point was ,the damage is already done, it doesnt matter how, it just is.... Why is Conqueres fires considered as useless, and Midways firews are brutally OP?

because conqueror doesn't go right next to you 1km and blap you 6 times with 20k shots in he dmg in every 7s, how about that? conqueror has to work that amount of 200k dmg, with lots of shots, that either miss or verry few of them hit with 2000-3000-6000 dmg and then start a fire, while midway? drop a 10-15-20k (that is 50% repairable) package in your face, starts a few fire, and here comes the next package, in less than a reload of a conqueror gun. am i wrong? i have a conqueror, and its not an easy task to make 200k dmg with it

[Kathapalt]

14 minutes ago, B051LjKo said:

I do not agree with your statement, but that is fully irrelevant. My point was ,the damage is already done, it doesnt matter how, it just is.... Why is Conqueres fires considered as useless, and Midways firews are brutally OP?

Well if the damage is already done and the source does not matter, then there is no coq vs Midway comparison. as damage is just damage.

If the damage source matter, then we get to the how  the damage is done part, and that i already explained.

 

[El2aZeR]

12 hours ago, TheScarletPimpernel said:

I'm a bit surprised it's not being nerfed already in the next patch coming.

 

Because they can't nerf her specifically. They've declared premium CV balancing finished as of 0.8.2. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So their only real option is to pull her from sale.

[Sunleader]

1 hour ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

If you wish for a balanced game, you can go play chess.

 

I do not wish to drive you any further into a Corner. So as stated above I will not poke you anymore and thus ignore that little toxic rant there.

 

 

The first comment however is something else.

This is a Competetive Multiplayer Game.

And Wargamings Official stance is that they want it to be Balanced.

 

If YOU dont want to Play a Game unless you can Play with a massive Advantage over your Opponents. I suggest playing Singleplayer and PvE Games.

 

 

But thanks for Admitting that CVs are currently massively Unbalanced and urgently need to be Nerfed or Removed.

[ApolloF117]

12 minutes ago, Kathapalt said:

Well if the damage is already done and the source does not matter, then there is no coq vs Midway comparison. as damage is just damage.

then every ship who are able to do 200k dmg are op?

[AirSupremacy]

1 hour ago, leeuwbart said:

yes i indeed mean that the playerbase is not ready cause of all the insults being thrown out there, the complaining at a reworked class which people want to be removed etc.  

you also unrightfully assume that i accept the rework like it is, i never stated that so i am unsure how you can get that in your mind aswell.

 

Please remove BB`s, they are a disturbing class in the CV rework :D

 

Once Submarines are in the game, there will be more to whine for - As usually in this game.

[Kathapalt]

6 minutes ago, ApolloF117 said:

then every ship who are able to do 200k dmg are op?

?