CV Rework Discussion

[HaachamaShipping]

16 minutes ago, Toivia said:

Great, for some unintelligible reason, people seem to have restarted playing DDs in my battles. What that means is that at the 5 minute mark, one team is entirely without DDs while the other one has them all. How's that? Well the one team with DDs has a CV that's competent and wrecks everything. The other team has a CV that uses rockets on BBs...

Of course I haven't had a competent CV on my team for days. Funny just comparing the stats, last battle it was 56% WR vs. 42%. Both CV mains with a couple hundred battles only.

Doesn't even need to be incompetent CV. Given I'm one of the madlads that played DD in the past few weeks, most often it's that there's a team that doesn't understand that if they don't go anywhere near a cap circle to provide AA cover, the DD on his own certainly won't or they are dead. Of course I also had those games where the DD was exactly that kind of stupid and just suicided, because why play different if a CV is present?

 

In general, playing DD is just barely more appreciated than playing CV these days, as you'll get reported for all kinds of crap that isn't your fault. Unlike CVs, your fun is far more limited though without support. I rather play BBs, because there people don't start flaming me as long as I get at least close to a cap circle.

[anonym_WQDIB9XrzbSp]

3 minutes ago, Cagliostro_chan said:

Doesn't even need to be incompetent CV. 

No it doesn't, but the confirmation bias posts with stats that prove this and that, (or are less than thinly veiled attempts to complain about CV's in some way), all seem to focus on CV stats at the moment. Not the BB's that sailed off alone and got targeted, or the DD that charged a cap and got deleted, or the 3 T8 premium in the game that was full of T4 players. 

 

We're at a point where a server outage would be blamed on the rework right now.

 

Remember when the player base had dropped 80% and nobody was actually playing CV's? Except....

[Sunleader]

3 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

If people start being toxic because they don't get what they want then they might aswell just quit and only come back after they fixed that childish attitude.

There is never an excuse to be toxic.

 

Adding enough Frustration will make EVERYONE Toxic.

The Question is just the Threshold of the Respective Person.

For some it takes less frustration before they go and for some it takes more before they go.

 

And given the current Situation.

Where the moment CVs enter a Match. The Gameplay is entirely Broken.

Telling everyone who gets Toxic at some Point to Leave the Game would likely mean that your Demanding roughly 80% of the Playerbase to Leave the Game.

 

Not a Good Strategy if you ask me.

 

 

 

Edit:

Also just to have this Said.

 

But Both of us.

You and Me.

Are in Fact right now behaving Toxic already.

 

I am Frustrated. And I am clearly Venting this Frustration by Complaining. And I am absolutely not making a Secret out of my Opinion on WGs Competence about this Issue.

You are also Frustrated Obviously. Because there is so much Complains. Which is why your Constantly Attacking People in the Forums that Complain. And make Remarks like the one above where your Indirectly saying that other People are Childish and that they should Quit. :)

 

So much for there being no Excuse to being Toxic.

Guess your the First one who should Quit right now then.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Oh no,

Vor 21 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

 

Adding enough Frustration will make EVERYONE Toxic.

The Question is just the Threshold of the Respective Person.

For some it takes less frustration before they go and for some it takes more before they go.

 

And given the current Situation.

Where the moment CVs enter a Match. The Gameplay is entirely Broken.

Telling everyone who gets Toxic at some Point to Leave the Game would likely mean that your Demanding roughly 80% of the Playerbase to Leave the Game.

 

Not a Good Strategy if you ask me.

 

 

 

Edit:

Also just to have this Said.

 

But Both of us.

You and Me.

Are in Fact right now behaving Toxic already.

 

I am Frustrated. And I am clearly Venting this Frustration by Complaining. And I am absolutely not making a Secret out of my Opinion on WGs Competence about this Issue.

You are also Frustrated Obviously. Because there is so much Complains. Which is why your Constantly Attacking People in the Forums that Complain. And make Remarks like the one above where your Indirectly saying that other People are Childish and that they should Quit. :)

 

So much for there being no Excuse to being Toxic.

Guess your the First one who should Quit right now then.

 

Oh no. That's not toxic behavior.

Toxic behavior is what @Tirande

showed in his chat screenshots.

People like them have no place in this gamechat. And if they use the CV rework as an excuse to behave like that they should just quit and make the game a better place for everyone. I myself don't behave like that in the game and in the forums i don't give a ☆ about you complaining. I am happy with the rework and happy to harvest your salty complains. I enjoy all this. So you can all complain as much as you like, open as many threads as you like and say whatever fits your narrative. The more creative you get with your complains the more i enjoy them.

I'm "attacking" people you say. But i have never personally attacked anyone yet. I guess you are a bit to sensitive ☆♡☆

[AirSupremacy]

Idea:

- Remove CVs

- Remove DDs

- Remove Cruisers

- Remove HE Ammo

- Remove Storms

- Remove Islands

- The only ingame resources shall be Ironium & Sarcasium

 

BBs can now focus on who "has the longest" stats, the last thing left to complain about.

 

 

Waiting for Submarines to come to the game is exciting :)

Variety is the spice in life...

[1MajorKoenig]

7 hours ago, AndyHill said:

No, it would be the best thing to ever happen to the game. They don't have to be removed, though, they just can't be in the same game modes with surface gunships.

 

No it is not. It is a new level of mafiaism and toxicity in this game. If you follow this path further you can easily remove DDs next. That’s what the BB-mafia wanted for a long time anyway. 

 

The amount of idiocy I am reading here is mindblowing. 

 

On top this stupid hate is constantly fueled by some ex-RTS guys who are salty that their mini game got removed. 

 

All this leads to a rapid decline of this community for no substantial reason 

[ApolloF117]

2 hours ago, AirSupremacy said:

Variety is the spice in life...

This is a game, where balance should be

[leeuwbart]

I am pretty sure that after the rework and all the complains they ditched the submarine project as the player base is not ready for it. 

[svadilfari]

25 minutes ago, leeuwbart said:

I am pretty sure that after the rework and all the complains they ditched the submarine project as the player base is not ready for it. 

we are not ready for it? you joking? so in your mind we should just accept the clustertruck that was, is and will be this f´ing rework?

haha the player base is not ready for another crapsandwich.

ok then ...

[Procrastes]

12 hours ago, AndyHill said:

The healthiness of the situation remains to be seen, I personally think any negative effects will take time. Relatively few people will even realize how much the carriers right now limit gameplay options for the real playmakers, but the ability for one unit to poop on everyone else without counterplay is so hilariously bad design that I would be surprised if it has no effect on how the general playerbase views the game. Another major milestone will happen when people currently grinding the carriers either get to T10 or get bored of playing carriers - which to me seems like a thing that can really happen, since for me personally the aircraft gameplay isn't as compelling as the surface ships are.

This is a pretty fair description of how I feel about the CV rework myself, right now.

• I don't like playing in CV:s, because I find the gameplay to be boring and repetitive. Fly out, drop the payload, F-return/get shot down, rinse and repeat. I play the odd game now and then, mostly in co-op or scenarios, but really only for the novelty value - and that wears off pretty fast. Having unlimited plane reserves contributes to this feeling of ennui, since I don't feel that I'm risking anything when I fly out to attack - there is no tension or excitement. (I should add that I'm a very bad CV player. It's likely to be a lot more fun if you actually know what you're doing.)
• I don't like playing against CV:s, since I find being on the receiving end of someone who is, in your words, able to "poop on everyone else without counterplay", to be a bit too masochistic for my taste. Shooting down the odd plane is not much of a consolation when back-up planes magically teleport in to fill the gap in the attack wing, and carriers have unlimited plane reserves. (Yes, I know that the respawn rate means that shooting down planes isn't all that meaningless. It still feels that way, though.)
• I don't like playing with CV:s, since they make my favourite ship - the destroyer - feel more and more redundant. When you're in a destroyer, playing the role of sidekick kinda goes with the territory, but up until now I've always felt like a useful sidekick. With a carrier on my team, this is no longer always the case. The carrier does everything a destroyer does - scouting, spotting, torping, setting fires, fighting enemy DD:s - so much better. The only thing a carrier can't do better than a destroyer, is capping - and that is quite often done only at the carrier's sufferance, since an absence of air support frequently leaves the enemy carrier free to hound the destroyer out of any cap it is trying to claim for the team. (Yes, there are ways to play around this. That doesn't change what I've said, namely that - for me, at least - playing in a destroyer is less fun with carriers in play.)

The problems outlined above are most pronounced in games with two or more carriers on each team, but they affect the gameplay experience in any battle with carriers in play. I'm still hoping that WG:s ongoing efforts to balance the rework will produce a working solution that makes the game equally fun for everyone. Setting a hard cap of max one carrier per team might be a good place to start, although I am well aware that there are some fairly major queuing-time issues connected with such a solution.

[Lootboxer]

6 hours ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That'S your statistic, I got another

Just remember the last ranked with this new mode - people are mad like every match even without CVs. Play another game like LoL, people are mad there as well. Has nothing to do with specific mechanics, it's more because of a team game, where people think, they do well but lose because of something they can't manipulate

Of course, but CVs are the easiest to blame. Ppl need the scapegoat.

Ranked were toxic always.

We will get best of both in next season with CVs 

[Namuras]

7 hours ago, TheScarletPimpernel said:

I also think something is going to give way with that CV sooner or later, I reckon it will be nerfed down rather than pulled from sale

They can't tho... :)

 

Remember the communities decision during the Gulio Ceasare rebalance discussion? The Com said they are fine with OP prems and WG confirmed they won't touch Prems. 

Of course they can change the global way CVs work... but that will make the silver CVs useless if they want to reign in the Big E. 

[Ruth_clifton]

How can you steer your ship to a  safe  place  IN  O.8.4   UPDATE

[Procrastes]

On 5/14/2019 at 9:33 AM, Namuras said:

They can't tho... :)

 

Remember the communities decision during the Gulio Ceasare rebalance discussion? The Com said they are fine with OP prems and WG confirmed they won't touch Prems. 

Of course they can change the global way CVs work... but that will make the silver CVs useless if they want to reign in the Big E. 

I was one of those who argued against a wider acceptance of individual nerfs to premium ships. They way I saw it, such nerfs should be used only as a last resort, and when it was necessary in order to keep the game healthy. I will leave the actual reasoning aside here - and for God's sake, let's not start that debate all over again! - but I'd like to say, here, that I would unequivocally support any and all nerfs to carriers (premium and non-premium ones) that was done in order to create a balanced game environment. And I say this as an owner of all four premium carriers.

 

The CV rework is simply too big an issue, for the overall game, to founder on a matter of principle such as this. Getting the CV rework to function is, as I see it, a concern of such importance that it trumps the arguments against nerfing premium ships.

[Seepheerd]

... and the best of the best happened, when the entire attacking group disappeared during a slingshot drop :D

How WG?

[Yedwy]

I must say yesterday I got really wexed, cvs ruined like half the matchess i played, ie I take out Algiere, after some warm up action I manage to isolate an enemy counterpart and catch him coming out behind the island broadside, start closing in to clobber him mbrb just about to come out of cooldown aaand enemy kaga drops me, having DFAA didnt mean   ofc so now i have a choice eat 3 torps or eat one but show full broadside to enemy algiere...

 

Ok next match missouri go with a seattle and 2 dds twards cap (in island cover btw), here comes a midway - triple bomb run plus on from the long range by half of the red team couse of spotting, dead before i could do 20k damage... 

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, Seepheerd said:

... and the best of the best happened, when the entire attacking group disappeared during a slingshot drop :D

How WG?

Working as intended camrade.

 

8 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

I was one of those who argued against a wider acceptance of individual nerfs to premium ships. They way I saw it, such nerfs should be used only as a last resort, and when it was necessary in order to keep the game healthy. I will leave the actual reasoning aside here - and for God's sake, let's not start that debate all over again! - but I'd like to say, here, that I would unequivocally support any and all nerfs to carriers, premiums and non-premiums, that was done in order to create a balanced game environment. And I say this as an owner of all four premium carriers.

 

The CV rework is simply too big an issue, for the overall game, to founder on a matter of principle such as this. Getting the CV rework to function is, as I see it, a concern of such importance that it trumps the arguments against nerfing premium ships.

Well, one solution for balancing premiums I can think of is their availability by doubloons only. You want X? Buy doubloons. Don't like premium ship balance changes? Sell her for doubloons, maybe add month period of increased doubloon sale price due to change, lets say 75% of value instead 50%, as "good will" or somesuch. And WG should be sort of covered, as players spent their money on doubloons, not premium ship directly

 

But obviously that would prevent WG from releasing whale bundles on the store though they could add whale bundles for doubloons in Arsenal Armory.

@MrConway @Crysantos any chance for your comment on that idea?

[Procrastes]

4 minutes ago, Yedwy said:

I must say yesterday I got really wexed, cvs ruined lije half the matchess i played, ie I take out Algiere, after some warm up action I manage to isolate an enemy counterpart and catch him coming out behind the island broadside, start closing in to clobber him mbrb just about to come out of cooldown aaand enemy kaga drops me, having DFAA didnt mean   ofc so now i have a choice eat 3 torps or eat one but show full broadside to enemy algiere...

 

Ok next match missouri go with a seattle and 2 dds twards cap (in island cover btw), here comes l midway - triple bomb run plus on from the long range by half of the red team couse of spotting, dead before i could do 20k damage... 

One should note that this is probably historically accurate... finally, those who keep campaigning for more historical accuracy in this game, can have a field day...!

[Yedwy]

2 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

One should note that this is probably historically accurate... finally, those who keep campaigning for historical accuracy in this game, can have a field day...!

Yeah, maybee its time to add 50 AAA dds as escort for a bb as well then

[bloodynicknames]

17 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

I believe that'd be legally covered since you're "altering" a product instead of removing it. Just like the CV rework did.

 

 

but you didnt buy the product as such, just a licenese to use it ... thats the way it works with computer games, they can do whatever the hell they feel like, there are no legal ramifications here if they compensate you somehow. as a matter of fact they dont even need to compensate you at all. just look at games that require online servers that were shutdown after a few years...no legal remedy, you just have to accept it

[bloodynicknames]

49 minutes ago, Namuras said:

They can't tho... :)

 

Remember the communities decision during the Gulio Ceasare rebalance discussion? The Com said they are fine with OP prems and WG confirmed they won't touch Prems. 

Of course they can change the global way CVs work... but that will make the silver CVs useless if they want to reign in the Big E. 

but they already did in the past ... kutuzov smoke nerf for instance

[Panocek]

16 minutes ago, bloodynicknames said:

but they already did in the past ... kutuzov smoke nerf for instance

Which was global change, not necessarily aimed at Kektuzov.

[bloodynicknames]

2 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Which was global change, not necessarily aimed at Kektuzov.

they had the choice to not apply to it kutuzov and still did which was a pretty big nerf 

[FooFaFie]

I still think the Planes/AA system is too simple. It needs a little bit more complexity so the players  have the feeling that they actually are doing something.

 

For CV I think the AA circle in 2 sections is to simple. i would divide the AA-circle in more sections and the section where you click on is heavy AA and the sections on the side of the clicked-on section are the weak AA-sectors.  Also sector selection is time limited after a periode it automatically switch back to the neutral state. Choosing the wrong sector or to soon/often would result in getting more damage.

 

For the planes I'm missing the vertical movement of the planes.. They need a command  (time limited like damage controle) to fly high to avoid those  deadly AA-sectors when they are in trouble. And just like damage control if they use that command to soon/often it would result in heavy damage.

[ApolloF117]

19 minutes ago, Micklenmob said:

For CV I think the AA circle in 2 sections is to simple. i would divide the AA-circle in more sections and the section where you click on is heavy AA and the sections on the side of the clicked-on section are the weak AA-sectors.  Also sector selection is time limited after a periode it automatically switch back to the neutral state. Choosing the wrong sector or to soon/often would result in getting more damage.

We have simple AA now and its barely usefull now, you would make it complex so it would be a total waste of coding and just as crap as the one we have now?