CV Rework Discussion

[AndyHill]

I see people claim all the time that carriers will never be removed, which to me is a bit puzzling, since it's entirely up to WG to make that call and it's absolutely not impossible. Of course it would be a major setback for WG to admit defeat like that, but that's normal in projects like this. Also WG have already shown ability to make major reforms when they think it's necessary. Just look at what happened to WoWP and we don't have to look further than a few months back when there was a major rework in this very game.

 

The rework happened, because WG felt that there were several serious problems with the carriers and the rework has only solved one, which, unfortunately, was popularity, thus making everything else just worse. When WG realize that the only logical conclusion is going to be another drastic operation if they have the guts to do another one. And that's where our opinions and views come in. All of those threads popping up and getting swatted down are exactly what this game needs right now. I applaud each and every one, if WG feel that a constant stream of new threads on a single topic is a problem,  I have news for them: the real problem is not the amount of topics popping up and shutting them down and channeling all discussion in one thread is not going to solve it.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 8 Minuten, AndyHill sagte:

I see people claim all the time that carriers will never be removed, which to me is a bit puzzling, since it's entirely up to WG to make that call and it's absolutely not impossible. Of course it would be a major setback for WG to admit defeat like that, but that's normal in projects like this. Also WG have already shown ability to make major reforms when they think it's necessary. Just look at what happened to WoWP and we don't have to look further than a few months back when there was a major rework in this very game.

 

The rework happened, because WG felt that there were several serious problems with the carriers and the rework has only solved one, which, unfortunately, was popularity, thus making everything else just worse. When WG realize that the only logical conclusion is going to be another drastic operation if they have the guts to do another one. And that's where our opinions and views come in. All of those threads popping up and getting swatted down are exactly what this game needs right now. I applaud each and every one, if WG feel that a constant stream of new threads on a single topic is a problem,  I have news for them: the real problem is not the amount of topics popping up and shutting them down and channeling all discussion in one thread is not going to solve it.

So let's say they remove CVs.

How are they going to refund someone like me who spend 150€ on all 4 premium CVs?

[Culiacan_Mexico]

13 minutes ago, rising_uk said:

Except I think most would agree that if they are ships they should be in the game.

The are no DDs in this game. 

 

What is given that name in game doesn't really 'perform' like destroyers, but instead like some kind of DD/DE/SS hybrid.

[Sunleader]

13 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

So let's say they remove CVs.

How are they going to refund someone like me who spend 150€ on all 4 premium CVs?

Same way they did for People that got Kitakami.

 

But counter question.

If they dont remove CVs how are they going to Refund all the Players which spend Hundreds of Euros to get other Premium Ships which are now useless target practice for CVs...

 

Best option is still to just roll back to the old RTS System.

The current System is broken and will never work.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 4 Minuten, Sunleader sagte:

Same way they did for People that got Kitakami.

 

But counter question.

If they dont remove CVs how are they going to Refund all the Players which spend Hundreds of Euros to get other Premium Ships which are now useless target practice for CVs...

 

Best option is still to just roll back to the old RTS System.

The current System is broken and will never work.

How did they refund kitakami players, i haven't been around that long.

 

[El2aZeR]

17 minutes ago, AndyHill said:

Also WG have already shown ability to make major reforms when they think it's necessary.

 

Except WG has also shown extreme reluctance when it comes to offering cash refunds. Especially critical when you consider they've just sold untold amounts of loot boxes and premium CVs.

And why would they remove CVs when overall population is healthy AND CV popularity has risen to what they deem are acceptable levels? Sounds like a win-win from a business perspective, really.

 

As long as players do not follow up on their threats, and threats have remained very much empty so far statistically speaking, nothing will change. Doesn't mean it will stay that way ofc but 4 months into the rework it is very much successful from a pure money making perspective.

 

2 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Same way they did for People that got Kitakami.

 

I'm actually fairly sure that'd run into legal problems, but I'm no expert so don't quote me on it.

[xxNihilanxx]

4 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

So let's say they remove CVs.

How are they going to refund someone like me who spend 150€ on all 4 premium CVs?

 

They won't, they will gradually nerf CVs incrementally until they are so unpleasant to play that only the truly masochistic will still play them.

It is possible that they may offer some kind of doubloon refund at some point but that is all.

The €150 that you spent on four premium CVs is not the issue for WG, it is the far-in-excess-of-that that players like myself haven't spent on the game since the rework that they will want to get their hands on. At the same time that WG are starting to gradually nerf CVs we will see an influx of new premium surface ships with godly AA to make them hyper-attractive in the CV meta, designed to tempt the surface players into buying them whilst at the same time becoming a "free-nerf" for the CVs.

 

"Feast on the tears" of others all you like but it won't be long before those tears are yours and you will find that they taste far less sweet then.There will come a time when you are calling on the very people you have been trolling to lend their voices to your cry for a refund.

[Sunleader]

3 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

How did they refund kitakami players, i haven't been around that long.

 

Just like that.

Only returned the Gold Doubloons.

Albeit I did see some note that affected Players were contacted to discuss compensation.

So I dont know if there was more to that.

 

Was not a first time either.

It happened a few times in the past that Ships got removed.

After all. Even for CV Rework they actually removed half of the CVs in the Game.

 

(Back then there was CVs on Tier 5, 7 and 9 as well. All of which were removed)

[Hundigo]

37 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

So let's say they remove CVs.

How are they going to refund someone like me who spend 150€ on all 4 premium CVs?

Basicly, you should have your 150€ back. This is not my word only, it's backed up by 'universal customers laws'. 

 

But WG shall properly never do that. They shall refund you in 'doubloons', what is virtual game money for this game. 

 

For a company, that's a totally beneficial strategie for them. Because these 'doubloons' costs them nothing. They need 'fresh' money, it means for example your 150€.

Some shall argue that the doubloons is the same value, but it ain't at all. Because with the 'doubloons' they can manipulate things with it in the game. Look at other treads in this forum. Someone spent for example 55.000 +   doubloons for crates to have early acces to the russian BB line. He never had one single mission in the whole process of it. And that's the way a company like WG is recuping the money you had spent, but WG had some how to refund you. But when you have bought the 'premium crates ' with real money, yes you have all the required missions in it . 

 

WG need people like you that buy's premium ships and put money on the game. Ones that period is gonne, Then they shall change the game, not in your beneficial who bought these 4 carriers. Then all of a sudden they shall listen to the others, because after 8 months to 1 year, WG shalll have less revenu , just because the CV rework. 

 

I self never blame you for your spending 150€ for the carriers. I bought in the past also premium ships (mostly DD's) and I've spent money for a full year of premium and I have spent money to have the permanent camo's . But I 've stopped spending money, I never buy any premium ship anymore and I shall not refund my premium account when it's ended. No matter what they do to the CV's or the game from now on. 

[El2aZeR]

11 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Just like that.

Only returned the Gold Doubloons.

 

Actually I thought they replaced Kitakami with Atago? I believe that'd be legally covered since you're "altering" a product instead of removing it. Just like the CV rework did.

 

12 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

They won't, they will gradually nerf CVs incrementally until they are so unpleasant to play that only the truly masochistic will still play them.

 

So basically just a return to the RTS status quo. I guess we're going to see another rework in ~2022? 

 

Serious recommendation tho: If you want to escape the CV rework madness join in on the CN server (assuming your ping doesn't prevent you from playing).

[Culiacan_Mexico]

3 hours ago, AndyHill said:

I see people claim all the time that carriers will never be removed, which to me is a bit puzzling, since it's entirely up to WG to make that call and it's absolutely not impossible. Of course it would be a major setback for WG to admit defeat like that, but that's normal in projects like this...

Not impossible, but why should they remove CVs? 

 

Yet us speculate that WG comes to believed that CVs are in such a state that is detrimental to them, and that they are unable to find a balancing solution that works..why remove them, as that would come with a financial element.  More likely they would just institute global nerfs, until only a few still play them. (See RTS CVs)

2 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

They won't, they will gradually nerf CVs incrementally until they are so unpleasant to play that only the truly masochistic will still play them.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Stunde, xxNihilanxx sagte:

"Feast on the tears" of others all you like but it won't be long before those tears are yours and you will find that they taste far less sweet then.There will come a time when you are calling on the very people you have been trolling to lend their voices to your cry for a refund. 

Oh no no no. WG won't make a class torture to play ever. They are planning to sell those premium CVs in the future too it wasn't a one time thing and they sure as hell won't gimp a class so far ao to that it won't sell any of those.

When it comes to earning money via premium Ships and lootboxes they after all are doing pretty well.

They will never make CVs to weak. It will not be a torture to play they will ensure it to be able to sell.

And i will never come crying for a money refund. If i get back doubloons that's just as fine, alot of t10 in need of premium cammos after all.

[Hundigo]

It can be for you personally fine, but not for all the rest and certanly not for the 'universal laws'. You play your game and have access to your account, but you don't have any clue what WG is doing to others 'after the screen'. 

ys 

I was able to mention for example to WG gamesupport and refering to the European laws . The only answer I had back from them was; "if you do that….  claim your customers rights ….. We ban you'. 

 

Why do you think I 'm so mad at WG ? Just because of this. Of course they never banned me, because they would be immediatelly in serious problems with it. But WG has a European Community Manager = Mr Conway. But he was never able to stop these actions from Gamesupport at all. You think they laugh with it ? WG and his colleges do, but not the rest of it. That answer was going immediattely to the authorities to help me against WG. And at the end, they shall hold MrConway responsible for it. If he represents the European WG community, then he must be the first one to respect the EU laws (and EU customers laws) also. But then you shall find MrConway verry short in it. 

 

MrConway did openly 2 mistakes on the forum. a) he showed / answered personall information from a player on the forum. He may never do that. b) He wrote me personally what I had to do, when I announced my gamebreak for 59 days. He wrote me I had to appoint another clanleader for my clan. I did, but I also stepped out of my own clan. He may never do that, because the rules tell you as clanleader may be absence for 60 days in the game, before WG would take any actions to appoint another clanleader because your absence for the clan. . So yes, I also payed 1.000 doubloons to be able to start a clan. And then you have the Gamecommunity manager that's gonna tell you what to do.... pffffff  MrConway wrote me that message on the 4 march. I never asked him, he only wrote me because he saw my message on the forum.  Afterwards with checking my rights, I discovered he may never do that. He doesn't has any rights for it and it only shows he's reading every post and react personally on it without respecting the posters rights neither the customers right. But he did. And that's how it came. WG thinks they can get away with anything, but somehow I shall able to stop them .

 

In Europe you have 3 country's that has taxbenificials for company's; it's Ireland, Luxembourg and Cyprus. WG proclaims it's a russian company, with teams in Sint-Petersburg and Prague for example. But they never pay the russian taxes, then all of a sudden Europe, Cyprus, is fine for them. With the next European election and afterwards, they shall change the taxrules for these 3 country's. Then WG shall be the one on the side of the cryers. Because they shall find not any beneficial anymore of it. That shall hurt them. WG shall react on it. But then Europa shall not care, like WG never carred about players rights. 

 

[Lootboxer]

Rework is a big success. It brought lots of friendly discussions in chat and generally the best in people. I was going to report him to the support but no point really. They will do nothing, maybe a day of a ban.

[AndyHill]

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Except WG has also shown extreme reluctance when it comes to offering cash refunds. Especially critical when you consider they've just sold untold amounts of loot boxes and premium CVs.

And why would they remove CVs when overall population is healthy AND CV popularity has risen to what they deem are acceptable levels? Sounds like a win-win from a business perspective, really.

 

As long as players do not follow up on their threats, and threats have remained very much empty so far statistically speaking, nothing will change. Doesn't mean it will stay that way ofc but 4 months into the rework it is very much successful from a pure money making perspective.

Well they can do all kinds of nasty tricks to keep people's money, but if they do calculate that even full refund is the most profitable option in the long run, they will probably do it. This is of course where we come in, constant pressure on the forums will certainly be taken into account as a factor when WG figure out what's going on in the playerbase. It's interesting to note that they already once made the calculation that an expansive and expensive rework is necessary and when they look at all the problems they intended to solve with it, is popularity alone really going to be enough?

 

The healthiness of the situation remains to be seen, I personally think any negative effects will take time. Relatively few people will even realize how much the carriers right now limit gameplay options for the real playmakers, but the ability for one unit to poop on everyone else without counterplay is so hilariously bad design that I would be surprised if it has no effect on how the general playerbase views the game. Another major milestone will happen when people currently grinding the carriers either get to T10 or get bored of playing carriers - which to me seems like a thing that can really happen, since for me personally the aircraft gameplay isn't as compelling as the surface ships are.

 

The health of the playerbase is basically a factor of incoming players (which should be inflated right now with completely new shiny carrier things people are still grinding), the average time people stay interested in the game and players leaving the game for one reason or another. Games like this can have a very high average (or mean) retention period for players, so even if there's a disastrous drop from 2 years to 1 year, that will take a long time to fully realize. And who knows, maybe enough people actually like getting pooped on constantly and everything will be fine. That's why WG kind of need to be on top of the game and catch problems before they turn into actual losses and that's where forums like this one come into play. 

[Pikkozoikum]

3 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

Rework is a big success. It brought lots of friendly discussions in chat and generally the best in people. I was going to report him to the support but no point really. They will do nothing, maybe a day of a ban.

That has absolutley nothing to do with the CV rework or CV in general.

It has to do with someones attitude combined with lack of knowledge. You see this kind of behavior against every ship type and even in different games.

People think, that they're the most important player and that they need personal bodyguards, that everyone has to support this one player

[KHETTIFER]

Why do you CV apologist's even bother playing a PvP game, you clearly don't want a balanced game, i mean WoWs has no balance at all now, it's a shitting arcade crutch shooter, it's a joke that caters to the lowest form of gameplay.

I stand by my comment, it was harsh and to the extreme, but the truth is that way sometimes, i encourage hostility towards CVs, spoil their experience, they spoil everyone else's.

[Sunleader]

9 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That has absolutley nothing to do with the CV rework or CV in general.

It has to do with someones attitude combined with lack of knowledge. You see this kind of behavior against every ship type and even in different games.

People think, that they're the most important player and that they need personal bodyguards, that everyone has to support this one player

 

I Disagree.

Lately its pretty obvious when playing.

 

9 out of 10 toxic and aggressive chat exchanges I see are about *Sky Cancer*

 

The Broken CV Rework is putting most other differences to Shame and has become by far the most Toxic Topic there is.

[Lootboxer]

27 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

That has absolutley nothing to do with the CV rework or CV in general.

It has to do with someones attitude combined with lack of knowledge. You see this kind of behavior against every ship type and even in different games.

People think, that they're the most important player and that they need personal bodyguards, that everyone has to support this one player

It used to be like this sometimes against DDs, radar or camping BBs one shooting CCs, but it was rare, now this rework with a much bigger number of CV games is really bringing the worst in many players. Out of frustration, some are losing it.

[GarrusBrutus]

37 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

Rework is a big success. It brought lots of friendly discussions in chat and generally the best in people. I was going to report him to the support but no point really. They will do nothing, maybe a day of a ban.

Holy moly what did you do to the poor fella? 

19 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

 

I Disagree.

Lately its pretty obvious when playing.

 

9 out of 10 toxic and aggressive chat exchanges I see are about *Sky Cancer*

 

The Broken CV Rework is putting most other differences to Shame and has become by far the most Toxic Topic there is.

United by a common foe. Atleast some positive that came out of the rework. 

 

[Sunleader]

2 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Holy moly what did you do to the poor fella? 

United by a common foe. Atleast some positive that came out of the rework. 

 

Well.

Maybe he is doing the same as me.

Because when I play CV. I am on purpose playing as Sadistic as possible.

 

So I often Focus an Enemy Ship to the Death.

Even if he tries to hide behind his entire Fleet.

 

I especially single out and kill DDs and partially dont bomb them but just keep crossing over them to spot them.

 

I will try to set fires and flooding explicity to targets that used Damage Control.

 

I constantly use Torpedo Bombers to Show that I dont give a Rat about Aircraft Losses.

 

I generally Ignore AA Fire and Fighters to demonstrate how useless they are.

Or drop my Fighters to kill Catapult and Enemy Fighters.

 

One Battle I was actually nice as well.

Constantly Targeted the Enemy AA Cruiser and even dropped Fighters on him all the time so he gets more Aircraft Kills.

Even if it only works if the AA Cruiser is 2 Tiers higher than me....

 

 

When People go Toxic on me I tell em that they should Blame WG for Breaking CVs.

Not me for abusing the crab out of it and earning nearly 300k credits each Battle.

[Lootboxer]

16 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

Holy moly what did you do to the poor fella? 

United by a common foe. Atleast some positive that came out of the rework. 

 

Nothing really, he was in my team, yolo dead self-called below 45wr Admiral. I just didn't follow his orders

[Hundigo]

34 minutes ago, Sunleader said:

Well.

Maybe he is doing the same as me.

Because when I play CV. I am on purpose playing as Sadistic as possible.

 

So I often Focus an Enemy Ship to the Death.

Even if he tries to hide behind his entire Fleet.

 

I especially single out and kill DDs and partially dont bomb them but just keep crossing over them to spot them.

 

I will try to set fires and flooding explicity to targets that used Damage Control.

 

I constantly use Torpedo Bombers to Show that I dont give a Rat about Aircraft Losses.

 

I generally Ignore AA Fire and Fighters to demonstrate how useless they are.

Or drop my Fighters to kill Catapult and Enemy Fighters.

 

One Battle I was actually nice as well.

Constantly Targeted the Enemy AA Cruiser and even dropped Fighters on him all the time so he gets more Aircraft Kills.

Even if it only works if the AA Cruiser is 2 Tiers higher than me....

 

 

When People go Toxic on me I tell em that they should Blame WG for Breaking CVs.

Not me for abusing the crab out of it and earning nearly 300k credits each Battle.

Thats the difference with all the other treads on this forum. 

It's not only about the other surface ships that are 'whining / are cryers' but even the CV players self admitt that the rework is totally broken for all the other classes in the game. 

 

It's just for one side of the game (WarGaming) that nothing is happend drasticly or influenced the game . 

 

Sorry for WG employee Sub_Octavian, the whole CV rework is a totally fail for the game in general. 

You may count yourself totally responsible for it Sub_Octavian, I'm not gonna pay in any way your salary at WG for your work. WG could be verry personal with me, I may do the same and blame directly the person for it also ;)

 

In the past , I did pay WG for their employees who designed the game and worked it all out. But not anymore. When I see how you take it in the wrong direction with it. 

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, AndyHill said:

The health of the playerbase is basically a factor of incoming players (which should be inflated right now with completely new shiny carrier things people are still grinding), the average time people stay interested in the game and players leaving the game for one reason or another. Games like this can have a very high average (or mean) retention period for players, so even if there's a disastrous drop from 2 years to 1 year, that will take a long time to fully realize. And who knows, maybe enough people actually like getting pooped on constantly and everything will be fine. That's why WG kind of need to be on top of the game and catch problems before they turn into actual losses and that's where forums like this one come into play. 

 

Thoroughly agreed, but WG has already failed and will probably continue to fail in this regard.

It's a reality we've already had to deal with in the RTS iteration and will likely continue to face. Because in their own eyes WG is infallible and if raw statistics do not support them they will simply bend them to fit their narrative.

See "most testers favor the rework but would like some changes" (blatant lie, option was "I liked some and disliked some others" and even if you absolutely hate it, the visuals are pretty good. That's what I wrote down, so I suddenly count as liking the rework) and "skill gap is now fixed" (self-explanatory really).

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Thoroughly agreed, but WG has already failed and will probably continue to fail in this regard.

It's a reality we've already had to deal with in the RTS iteration and will likely continue to face. Because in their own eyes WG is infallible and if raw statistics do not support them they will simply bend them to fit their narrative.

See "most testers favor the rework but would like some changes" (blatant lie, option was "I liked some and disliked some others" and even if you absolutely hate it, the visuals are pretty good. That's what I wrote down, so I suddenly count as liking the rework) and "skill gap is now fixed" (self-explanatory really).

 

So, this means:
You participated in the rework test and to count as someone who disliked it, you had to 100% dislike it.

If you only disliked it for 99,9% then you were count as some who "at least liked some aspects of it".

Do I get it?