CV Rework Discussion

[AndyHill]

The playerbase is already split into targets and aerial overlords, and considering the former group is the vast majority of the playerbase, I don't see how any other kind of a split could be worse for the game.

[Sunleader]

Honestly said.

The most Accurate Statement would be.

CV Rework SUX.

Nuff Said.

 

But I know that wont Satisfy some.

And while the Clearly Best Option would be to Completely Scrab this Epic Failure of Game Design and just Rollback to the old System till we got a Better Idea.

Wargaming is well known to be Extremely Stubborn and entirely uncapable of Admitting Fault for anything.

So I know this aint going to happen.

 

 

So what do we have right now ?

 

Basicly right now.

CVs are basicly Death Drones above the Battlefield.

Invincible and Unstoppable. Only Limiting Factor for their Success being their own Ability to Learn how to Hit Enemies.

Other Ships cannot Evade them And as they have Unlimited Aircraft especially in Higher Tiers. Even AA is entirely useless.

In best case by being in a Group you can avoid a CV from bombing you 3 times with the same Squadron. And thats about it.

Games where 2 CVs are Present are basicly Hell for other Ships because likely 1 or 2 of them will not even reach the Battle thanks to Sky Cancer.

 

 

Overall Opinion and Mood has gone into the Dumps and thanks to CVs being Broken like this. There is a Ton of Toxicity and Frustration everyhwere in the Game.

 

Worse than that. CVs are entirely Crab.

They require no Skill and no Gameplay.

For a CV the only Question is if the Enemy has more or less AA to Intercept his Aircraft.

No Skill on either side Influencing the Results.

Lower Tier CV vs higher Tier Ship will usually have his Aircraft Die before they can Bomb.

High Tier CV vs lower Tier Ship can usually even Fly through Catapult Fighters and AA Consumable because his Aircraft just dont Care at all....

 

 

 

 

Long Story Short.

Right now CVs are Completely Ruining the Entire Game.

I dont see any way to even use this System without Ruining the Game either. Because with the Squadrons being Controlled Directly by the Player. Any Evasive Maneuver becomes entirely Impossible.

There is no way to Evade something that Flies 400kph and more with something that will barely reach 100kph if your lucky.

 

 

The best would be to Revert to the Old System and Completely Scrab the CV Rework alltogether.

Any other Changes will Always Result in CVs either being Terrible Overpowered and Gamebreaking for everyone else.

Or end up useless and Underpowered because even with all their effort they wont do anything.

Thats just how it is. Because with the Inherent Difference between Maneuverability between Aircraft and Ships there is simply no Question who will Win in a Battle of Maneuvering.

Meaning that you always end up with the Simple Fact that either the Ship is so massively Overpowering Aircraft that reaching an Enemy Ship is near Impossible. Or you dont have this case and thus get the result that the Ship cant do anything about Aircraft.

Using this System was an Epic Failure in Game Design Thinking and should never have happened. So the most Viable Option would be to put on the Man Pants. Admit that it was a Mistake and Roll the whole CV Rework back to get back to the halfwat working system we had before.

 

 

But well. As I said a few times already. I know this wont happen.

A Stopgap Measure which would not Stop this from being a complete Failure and which does not change that this System is Broken beyond Salvage.

Would be to Half all Squadron Sizes in the Game but in exchange make them Drop their whole Load in One Attack.

Remove Aircraft Spotting entirely so Aircraft Carriers cannot Spot for themselves or for their Team and effectively become similar to Artillery in World of Tanks. Being only able to Attack with alot of Damage but also a Long Reload. And without the Ability to Attack anything thats not Spotted by their Team.

Increase the Aggro Range for Fighter Consumables by 300% so they actually React to Enemy Aircraft and cant just be leisurely flown through or evaded without any Effort.

And change the AA Fire Consumable to have a Suppression Effect instead of Increasing the Damage.

So that when the AA Consumable is Triggered. Enemy Aircraft are Suppressed and cannot Initiate Attack Runs until they are out of AA Range of that Ship.

AND MOST OF ALL. FREAKING LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF AIRCRAFT A CARRIER HAS FOR HEAVENS SAKE.

Aircraft Carriers having unlimited Aircraft is basicly like you give a Battleship Unlimited HP.

If an Aircraft Carrier doesnt need to worry about losing all his Aircraft cause he can just switch to another Squadron and in the meantime wait for his Squadron to fill up again. Then he has Zero Incentive not to even care about AA Fire.

 

 

 

This is of course a Stopgap measure and not fixing anything.

Because this System cannot be Fixed.

This System Sux and is absolutely not matching the remaining Game.

 

Because as Explained above.

Anything you do will be ending up Ruining the Game for either CVs or the other Classes.

 

 

But at least it would make the whole thing more Bearable.

 

 

Greetz Sun.

[ironhammer500]

AA still needs a buff, full AA builds do nothing no point in running it you shoot down maybe 1 or 2 planes extra.

[thisismalacoda]

Now that this beautifully designed and meticulously balanced class finds its way into the heart of more and more naval combat enthusiasts, wouldn't it be time to open up the marvelous matchmaker for three, four or - I dare to dream - five fluffy carriers per side? Spread the joy. Please.

[AirSupremacy]

64 players, including 4 CV & 4 Submarines per side would be awesome. Hopefully in the year 2025, touch wood. 

[bloodynicknames]

25 minutes ago, AirSupremacy said:

64 players, including 4 CV & 4 Submarines per side would be awesome. Hopefully in the year 2025, touch wood. 

id rather chop my [edited] off than suffer through that. 

[AirSupremacy]

I was always a fan of 32 or 64 player gameservers, but I do understand folks which like 7v7 matches as example.

The full blast of Theater of War is great joy I find, max. action.

[bloodynicknames]

so much fun ... in a hindenburg ... 

 

remove this crap from the game ... its not enjoyable anymore to just have to sit there and take without ANY CHANCE AT ALL to retaliate. 

 

seriously...imagine the guy coming up with "lets make a class that can kill anyone but that literally nobody can hit back".

 

 

 

[EgyptOverseer]

1 hour ago, bloodynicknames said:

so much fun ... in a hindenburg ... 

 

remove this crap from the game ... its not enjoyable anymore to just have to sit there and take without ANY CHANCE AT ALL to retaliate. 

 

seriously...imagine the guy coming up with "lets make a class that can kill anyone but that literally nobody can hit back".

 

 

 

I remember when German cruiser AA meant something, and investing in AA upgrades and captain skills was a nightmare for CVs.

 

I went from a solid performance through the German cruiser line to getting good scores on the stock Hipper pre-rework, and now having low damage games on the fully upgraded Hipper, using DefAA instead of the German hydro, and still getting one shoted even by T6 CVs flying through DefAA like it's nothing. It's also the ship with the most detonations in all my 4000+ battles in the game.

 

Nothing short of a joke, particularly the part where WG is still unable to work out how to make AA be meaningful whilst CVs keep breaking the game, the meta, and the community. 

[Uglesett]

9 hours ago, AirSupremacy said:

64 players, including 4 CV & 4 Submarines per side would be awesome. Hopefully in the year 2025, touch wood. 

Because being focused on by 12 ships isn't fun and engaging enough.

[ApolloF117]

"Playing CV is like pushing old people down the stairs. Fun to do, but not something that's healthy for the community as a whole."

[LightBurner]

This game is becoming less and less fun because of the CV rework. Before this the CVs were horrible as well, but at least you could hunt them down and do something about them. As of right now you just get punished hard. I've seen games where a BS and a cruiser are trying to hunt the CV but they get outrun and dropped to death before they even come close. I've dropped a decent amount of cash in this game, but right now I feel the smartest thing to do is to stop putting money into this and look for something else to play while in the meantime I hope WG will really fix this. If not I fear they will start losing players fast.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

This game is so boring now.

Whenever i get my DD out and try to play the objective (cap) i get instant spotted and rocket planes take 10k of my DD life easy. I shoot down 7 planes but it nrver seems to affect the attacking planes and i'm also always perma spotted. as soon as i then get into the cap i get hit by radar as if the enemy team knew for some reason that i was coming easily finishing me off before i can even fire my first torp salvo. This game is already dead you just don't want to see the reality and all good players like me are leaving.

Only potatos will stay and play this broken mess. I sold all my DDs for credits because no point in playing them anymore.

Please include the option for no CV game so those diseases can play against themselves while i can have fun again getting rekt by only radar kkthx bb won't spend money on this game until this broken is fixed lol

[little_rowboat]

Vor 38 Minuten, L0V3_and_PE4CE sagte:

This game is so boring now.

Whenever i get my DD out and try to play the objective (cap) i get instant spotted and rocket planes take 10k of my DD life easy. I shoot down 7 planes but it nrver seems to affect the attacking planes and i'm also always perma spotted. as soon as i then get into the cap i get hit by radar as if the enemy team knew for some reason that i was coming easily finishing me off before i can even fire my first torp salvo. This game is already dead you just don't want to see the reality and all good players like me are leaving.

Only potatos will stay and play this broken mess. I sold all my DDs for credits because no point in playing them anymore.

Please include the option for no CV game so those diseases can play against themselves while i can have fun again getting rekt by only radar kkthx bb won't spend money on this game until this broken is fixed lol

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

New suggestion:

Give players with a 40% winrate in DD/CL/CA/BB access to carriers. Remove access when they reach 50% winrate.

 

It is obviously a potato (zero skill required) class, so don’t bother putting limits on it as well.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, LemonadeWarrior sagte:

New suggestion:

Give players with a 40% winrate in DD/CL/CA/BB access to carriers. Remove access when they reach 50% winrate.

 

It is obviously a potato (zero skill required) class, so don’t bother putting limits on it as well.

LOL

[B051LjKo]

And so the CV nerf hammering continues, I thing we are at the point where average CV Joe Potato like myself will have troubles keeping up the pace with other classes. 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 3 Minuten, B051LjKo sagte:

And so the CV nerf hammering continues, I thing we are at the point where average CV Joe Potato like myself will have troubles keeping up the pace with other classes. 

Noone cares about you average Joe! xD

[Hundigo]

It's not this year WG shall see the influence the CV's has on the players community, it's next year. This year is still so that many players would try the CV's out and buy premium CV's. WG likes all the posts from different CV players in this tread. They show their results and claims it's guaranteed, no matter if you are experienced CV player or not. And WG likes that, so that more players would buy the premium CV's. It's far most the best results you can have with them in the game. We don't see many other posts with the regular/silver CV's. 

 

I still can have as DD player, good games even with CV included, but I can have the worst games also, just because of the CV's in the game. That is also for the other none CV classes.

But that's not the point in the long run, it's the experience and the funfactor you have in the game. And that is gonne with the new CV rework. It's not for the fun I play the other classes. It's to try to be able to counter the CV's in the game. But I must admit, it isn't possible, no matter in what none CV class you play. Before you had to put effort to know your ship, play with it , try different tactics to have good results in the game. Ones you had found that, you enjoied the game, because you could perform in it. Now with the CV rework it's all gone. Its not up to you anymore or your skills, it's just the result of being focused by a CV player or not. That makes the outcome of the game now. 

 

So in the long run, yes CV's has a bad / negative influence on the game. Because all the rest can't find a decent way to go around them. But for the moment , we are all still trying. We are mostly trying to find a way to counter them. With the result that in a few months, most of us shall be so bored of the game, that we don't play it anymore. Even no matter with what WG is coming up with as a solution for the problem. 

 

And for WG it shall result in less revenu, so then they shall launch another game, to try to hook up the players again. 

 

This game is already payed in the past. That's also the reason why they did such drastic changes. They could afford it. 

 

You can find under my name the symbol for DD accomplisment in the game. Since the CV rework and so focussed by the CV's I dropped back in average points so badly that I for the moment not even have enough points for that symbol. I could never have it when I look at my average scores on the last 100 games. Even I was verry close for the other one before the CV rework. 

 

Too give an example as comparrising. All the DD players had games where they where performing well and all of a sudden it end because you get 'detonated'. Mostly it was "damm, I was doing so well at that moment". So next time you tried to avoid it and make sure you had your "Juliet Charlie Flag " on so in the future 'detonation' wouldn't disturb your gameplay anymore. Well with the CV's it's like you put your flag on but get 'detonated' anyway. It means, you did your part in the game, but at the end it doesn't mattered. You are dead / out anyway. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nibenay78]

Hi all,

 

I've played since the start and despite almost never posting anything here, I'd like for once to voice an opinion about the rework in the hope some responsible person will take some notice. I've refrained from making any posts until now, in order to give it some time for balancing and letting myself see how it feels after getting a bit used to the rework.

 

 

RTS Positive features:

• Offered an alternative gameplay mode which was enjoyable time to time (7% CV gameplay for me total)
• The rts/map view made the game feel more strategic.
• More possibility for utility. Sacrificing your DPM in exchange for spot of ships or obviously torpedo paths
• Ability to assist your teammates with fighter squadrons, chase off enemy planes.
• AA Defensive fire was really good due to panic effect, it was really nice to help out a BB being to be nuked by having this option, even in a Gearing!
• It could be complex but rewarding to juggle Hakuryu's many squads around.

RTS Negative features:

• Way too much impact from a single ship at times. A good CV completely dominated the late game.

Rework positive features:

 

• More immersive when flying around and seeing the flak pop up around you. I'm sure some players prefer this (I dont, see below)
• AA sounds appear more enjoyable (40mm firing!) and it is more noticable when AA is firing. 

 

Rework negative features

• Balance: Still extremely strong strong in the right hands, while a newbie still suicides into flak. In other words nothing changed in this regard
• Stealth: Spotted 30 seconds into the match, very boring (yes I'm aware this will be changed)
• AA seems very inconsistent, I've had planes fly straight over me in DM whith AA defensive fire going, and do nothing despite being right next to a BB to help him out (12k dmg iirc, no planes down). Other times you demolish entire squads in a second if you get lucky with the flak.
• AA sector reinforcement is very clunky, with the high speeds of the squads and slow reinforcement time, it's often a bit random if you catch them or not on the correct side
• Fire/Flood: It can be discussed how dangerous (DPM) fire and floods should be, but at least before one had to consider if to repair the two fires and risk some time without repair party that you could be torped. Now it feels dumbed down to the same thing.
• DDs: I've barely played them the last months. If a CV hangs over your area, his presense is permanently there and you just have to run away unless you have a ton of smoke. In which case you'll probably get radared and torped in smoke. You can't work during the plane reload time as before.
• CC: Playing AA cruiser with reduced range makes it harder to park near caps to assist DDs, also you have to sail notiably closer to BBs also. Lack of "panic" effect only reduces the assistance you can give to other ships. 
• If you are "lucky" and the CV does fly back and forth over you so you can use your "strength" to support the team, you're also permaspotted, meaning you'll probably have to hide or run in a short while. We all love blapping cruiser near the front, dont we? :D 
• BB: Coupled with the reduction of the stealth skill, BBs generally are spotted all the time. It reduces your opportunity to do good tactical play by surprising sneaking up on unsuspecting ships in a BB (either through maxing stealth or using land). For me, this was one of my favorite events in the game.
• CV: One can't control the ship during flight, which is an (intentional) extremely annoying feature. Regeneration of planes on some CVs appear to be so fast fast so there is no little consequence to yolo your planes.

tl;dr:
CV play got dumbed down. One is not able to control the ship itself during flight and only a single squad you can wasd around like a cheap console game.
The best players still do as well as before. Worst players will still yolo their planes as before.
Stealth play in any ship feels to have gone down the drain at times.

 

Gameplay with current CVs is so annoying that I will not recommend this game to anyone I know anymore.
 

[Tirande]

2 hours ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

This game is so boring now.

Whenever i get my DD out and try to play the objective (cap) i get instant spotted and rocket planes take 10k of my DD life easy. I shoot down 7 planes but it nrver seems to affect the attacking planes and i'm also always perma spotted. as soon as i then get into the cap i get hit by radar as if the enemy team knew for some reason that i was coming easily finishing me off before i can even fire my first torp salvo. This game is already dead you just don't want to see the reality and all good players like me are leaving.

Only potatos will stay and play this broken mess. I sold all my DDs for credits because no point in playing them anymore.

Please include the option for no CV game so those diseases can play against themselves while i can have fun again getting rekt by only radar kkthx bb won't spend money on this game until this broken is fixed lol

I know right! I tried this new DD they released; seems to work pretty well:

She's a bit flat to my liking but capping was no problem at all for her! =^o.o^= m

[Hundigo]

You can't have it all. That new DD performs, even she doesn't has the looks for it 

[Tirande]

So here's a thing, we got the anti-CV radicals whining about how CVs ruin the game for everyone; but how is it that this is acceptable behaviour:

The person in question died to my Haku torps;

I mean I've obviously reported him straight to WG support via ticket but still; I'm getting more than a little fed up with this.

[Sidian42]

1 hour ago, Nibenay78 said:

Balance: Still extremely strong strong in the right hands, while a newbie still suicides into flak. In other words nothing changed in this regard

I have to disagree with you here. When i played Kaga before the rework, the first match i got was against a 70% WR saipan player. I couldn't do anything. It was basically impossible to have any impact on the game. If i play Kaga now, the enemy CV may still be better than me, but he cannot absolutely destroy me and take away the possibility for me to do anything. If i suicide into flak, then it's entirely my fault, the reason for that is not that the enemy CV is a lot better than i am.

 

1 hour ago, Nibenay78 said:

DDs: I've barely played them the last months. If a CV hangs over your area, his presense is permanently there and you just have to run away unless you have a ton of smoke.

The rework actually improved that. Before, a good CV (or the better CV) was able to permanently spot DDs. Fighters didn't have a timer and spotting didn't block the ability to do strikes on other targets. Now the CVs can only do one thing at a time. If they want to drop their fighter, they have to be there. If they want to spot you, they have to be there. No more "spotting DDs without any downtime and doing 40k damage strikes at other ships at the same time". It just didn't feel as bad as it does now because CVs were very rare.
 

1 hour ago, Nibenay78 said:

CV: One can't control the ship during flight, which is an (intentional) extremely annoying feature. Regeneration of planes on some CVs appear to be so fast fast so there is no little consequence to yolo your planes.

Regeneration time isn't everything. The Enterprise has very short regeneration times but the Kaga with much higher regeneration times has more planes available per match (if planes would be generated all the time in the entire match). The regeneration time is basically just the old hangar with a longer cooldown - before the rework, that cooldown was basically the time the squadrons needed to return to the carrier and refill/restock ammo and planes.
Now, the Midway has 12 torpedo planes on deck (without upgrades or modules) and can regenerate 1 plane every 90 seconds, that's about 24 torpedo planes total per match. Before the rework, the Midway had 54 torpedo planes with the 1-2-2 config (and 55 dive bombers and 27 fighters). A lot of CVs have LESS planes than before, but in exchange they got rocket planes and CVs can't hunt each other's planes anymore.
Still, it is possible to "deplane" a CV or force them to attack with a reduced strike power to save planes and the consequences of "yoloing" planes are severe. Playing CV nowadays is a damage race. If you "yolo" your planes, you will be at a disadvantage.

[rage1750]

5 minutes ago, Tirande said:

So here's a thing, we got the anti-CV radicals whining about how CVs ruin the game for everyone; but how is it that this is acceptable behaviour:

 

I know people that report anyone (including friendlies) just because they are in a CV.