CV Rework Discussion

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 23 Minuten, Thunderscreech sagte:

This has probably been brought up already elsewhere, but after my last match I felt utterly compelled to head to the forums to grumble.  I'm not sorry for doing so.

 

I am so TIRED of joining matches with CV's as a BB (Last match Musashi), only to be spotted in the first 30 seconds of the match and utterly burned to the ground before I can even get into a position to contribute to a match. Before I had spotted an enemy ship I had been blasted by ships I couldn't even see thanks to the planes spotting me. Just so that my first (I think) ever forum post isn't a complete gripe, might I suggest something to consider - Putting weak AA ships closer to other ships on match start, to avoid instant nuking by aircraft, I was completely on my own in the last match (not the first time). Even against a T8 CV the first rocket attack shaved off quite the chunk of HP. I have read the note about CV's having a flight delay at the beginning of a match which might solve the problem. It would at least allow people to get into a better AA aegis formation.

 

I'm probably opening myself up for some flak here, but this is such a depressing result >.>

 

You are not opening yourself to flak. You have valid concerns since CVs main target are BBs especially Bbs with the influence of Musashi ( and lack of its AA ).

There is not much you can do but to learn how to use your catapult fighters correctly. You are dependent on your teams support in such a ship and yes, with the timers being introduced you will get breathing room until you reach a position but you will forever be a prime target.

Try to find ways to prepare yourself for how to react best against CVs after the next patch! It's frustrating yes, but manageable if you keep an eye on your Cruisers positions. Don't clump together with other BBs however.

Make sure to make yourself an annoying target to strike early.

[DFens_666]

47 minutes ago, Thunderscreech said:

This has probably been brought up already elsewhere, but after my last match I felt utterly compelled to head to the forums to grumble.  I'm not sorry for doing so.

 

Well, i gotta say tho, you died to DD torps, which do have limited range. Im pretty much anti-rework, and i still have to say: the problem must be with you. 0 damage game in a Musashi is... horrible? (unless you get some unlucky weird detonation maybe )

Personaly i feel, BBs handle CVs pretty well. Cruisers seem to more vulnerable, as a CV can get atleast one strike through no matter what. And that can hurt like hell, while against a BB its mostly mildly annoying, unless you are unlucky with flooding or engine /rudder damage. Playing DD is much worse, as sometimes you simply cant do anything.

Probably if you get a SuperUnicum as enemy CV, it might be bad, but there are so many CVs around lately, majority of them isnt that great. So chances should be good to not run into some pwnz0r.

 

 

 

[DFens_666]

edit...

[El2aZeR]

Completely off topic, but

- does literally nothing

- still earns 200k credits

 

If I didn't know already that the economy in WoWs is way too forgiving this would most definitely convince me of it.

[DFens_666]

43 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Completely off topic, but

- does literally nothing

- still earns 200k credits

 

If I didn't know already that the economy in WoWs is way too forgiving this would most definitely convince me of it.

 

Been wondering about that myself today. Had a games with JB 112k damage with 428k credits, and a 105k Balti game got me 303k I think i was only running Zulu on both ships.

[Randathamane]

Here's one for the CV discussion.
Just got out of a game. Hermes, Royal Naval carrier.

1 Torp (the rest missed and one didn't go off)
32 Bombs
16 Rockets
3 fires caused by planes.
33k Damage. Not very much.

I did score 2 kills. I had to stop playing planes and use my Surface guns to do it...

Seriously, I've been waiting for Royal Navy carriers for years. I bought the Warspite, I've bought the dabloons, i played about 400 games in US carriers and now you've done this to me. It's really sad. If you wanted to Nerf carriers, just make the AA have an impact on bomb dispersal or torp spread for god sake.
was interesting getting the big orange pop up saying "The carrier is Under Attack" whilst i was on my bombing runs. I just sat there thinking 'Great... what do you want me to do about it?'

[morgoroth]

2 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Completely off topic, but

- does literally nothing

- still earns 200k credits

 

If I didn't know already that the economy in WoWs is way too forgiving this would most definitely convince me of it.

Still waiting for someone to do the math and find out that it is better just to press wwwwwwww and battle, wwwwww and battle in WoT it was much more profitable then playing whole battle ... because you know WG and reasons (which makes me perma banned ::)

[morgoroth]

16 hours ago, Randathamane said:

Here's one for the CV discussion.
Just got out of a game. Hermes, Royal Naval carrier.

1 Torp (the rest missed and one didn't go off)
32 Bombs
16 Rockets
3 fires caused by planes.
33k Damage. Not very much.

I did score 2 kills. I had to stop playing planes and use my Surface guns to do it...

Seriously, I've been waiting for Royal Navy carriers for years. I bought the Warspite, I've bought the dabloons, i played about 400 games in US carriers and now you've done this to me. It's really sad. If you wanted to Nerf carriers, just make the AA have an impact on bomb dispersal or torp spread for god sake.
was interesting getting the big orange pop up saying "The carrier is Under Attack" whilst i was on my bombing runs. I just sat there thinking 'Great... what do you want me to do about it?'

Maybe because this not a CV game-play anymore just [edited]  ... I am sorry Warplanes??

 

PS. I am grinding the implacable ... and for it is bla bla bla dmg makes as much xp to get tx, no fun at all, fk some dds, get recked by TX AA ... seriously if someone thinks this whole balance stupidity is fine then "can I have my money back?" and yes I play dd's (the only line I have without TXs)

 

Yeah the tattooed guy in the latest vid staid the CVs are balanced ... of course  they are balanced! They don't counter themself's any more so they are balanced! No even a [edited] can rock in a CV ... perfect balance I guess....

Edited by moderation team.
Reason: insults

Boris_MNE

[Thunderscreech]

3 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well, i gotta say tho, you died to DD torps, which do have limited range. Im pretty much anti-rework, and i still have to say: the problem must be with you. 0 damage game in a Musashi is... horrible? (unless you get some unlucky weird detonation maybe ) 

Personaly i feel, BBs handle CVs pretty well. Cruisers seem to more vulnerable, as a CV can get atleast one strike through no matter what. And that can hurt like hell, while against a BB its mostly mildly annoying, unless you are unlucky with flooding or engine /rudder damage. Playing DD is much worse, as sometimes you simply cant do anything.

Probably if you get a SuperUnicum as enemy CV, it might be bad, but there are so many CVs around lately, majority of them isnt that great. So chances should be good to not run into some pwnz0r.

 

 

 

Yeah it was the DD which finished me off, I was forced to turn broadside to a spread from (I think it was a Yugumo?). But the match for me lasted a little over a minute hence the zero damage. While I'm not going to make any claims to be a fantastic player ( Do have some decent-ish results in the Musashi), trying to turn away from aerial torps, to receive a full broadside from a BB I couldn't see, only to run into the DD torps and finish me off was...immensely frustrating.

[mcboernester]

1 hour ago, Randathamane said:

Here's one for the CV discussion.
Just got out of a game. Hermes, Royal Naval carrier.

1 Torp (the rest missed and one didn't go off)
32 Bombs
16 Rockets
3 fires caused by planes.
33k Damage. Not very much.

I did score 2 kills. I had to stop playing planes and use my Surface guns to do it...

Seriously, I've been waiting for Royal Navy carriers for years. I bought the Warspite, I've bought the dabloons, i played about 400 games in US carriers and now you've done this to me. It's really sad. If you wanted to Nerf carriers, just make the AA have an impact on bomb dispersal or torp spread for god sake.
was interesting getting the big orange pop up saying "The carrier is Under Attack" whilst i was on my bombing runs. I just sat there thinking 'Great... what do you want me to do about it?'

Can't really tell if you are serious but i'll respond as nice as possible without any harm intended:  

 

- You have played a total of 862 games, which of 608 where random games. This tells me you are lacking experience across the board. Most players ( including myself) need(ed) atleast around 2000 games for a good understanding of game mechanics, so it's only natural that things won't go the way you want most of the time. That being said you only played a total of 7 games with the current cv system which has nothing to do with the old RTS. You will have to learn it from scratch 

 

- All Hermes Games you played so far where coop battles, so i cannot tell if it's going better or worse for you, however what i can tell from your numbers above is that you are using the wrong ammo type. RN CVs exceed on torpedoes and therefore these should be your bread and butter. Rockets up (and including) Tier 8 are the least favorable ammo choice of your 3 options on RN CVs  and are best against dds since the aiming reticle is narrow which makes it far easier to hil small ships. The rawr damage output and dot chance are insignificant in comparison with your dbs and tbs. 

 

- The "carrier under attack" popup appears once you have been hit, either by planes or surface ships. However there must have been a "carrier detected" popup some time before telling you that... well, that you have been spotted. Yes you can do something about it, set an auto pilot course away from the enemy and if your planes are too far away from your cv press F, start a new squad and defend yourself with it. 

 

Aside from that the Hermes works very well as i recently finished her myself, see below

Spoiler

 

 

 

[Huzagackl]

CV rework made me play less wows since it was introduced and I also stopped investing that much money. Was considering buying a Lenin but then I saw how it gets slapped by AP Bombers.

 

My biggest gripe with the rework is the fact that CVs no longer risk anything, they are just an annoyance to the game you cant really fight against. Before the rework you felt like you did something when you shot down planes and the CV and to made important decisions like do I want to risk my planes in order to attack this AA specced ship? Right now they just spam fighters and no longer need to care about plane losses which renders all AA specs pretty much useless.

 

When you face a CV there is nothing you can do, they will sit in the back farm damage without any risk and destroy the actual gameplay and experience for all the other players. Just look at the stats, Top 5% T10 CV players have like a 30/1 K/D and 80% WR with 170k damage. This is absurd.

 

My solution: Remove CVs as a class you can play regularly. Make CV gameplay an optional reward for your team when you accomplish certain tasks. Spotting damage and spotted ships provide a Torpedo Squad to call in and optionally control yourself or you could even can give the command to one of your teammates. Taking damage rewards a fighter squad and capping objectives gives some sort of dive bombers.

Right now CV games turn into a passive campfest and every attempt to flank, get into position or play aggressively gets punished by any halfway competent CV. This game is not meant to played with CVs, 3 types of ships are enough and can be perfectly balanced ala rock paper scissor. Adding CVs destroys every balance this game could ever achieve in the first place. Adding CVs destroys the game for 22 out of 24 players in each game with a carrier. Games without CVs are the only enjoyable games, no matter the tier.

 

I am afriad WG is too proud and afraid to remove CVs from the game, while being unable to balance them in the first place. Eventually this will destroy the game for more and more players until its too late.

[KHETTIFER]

CV rework is the product of substance abuse, there is no other logical excuse for what is the single most retarded update any game has had, congrats on Ruining your game in spectacular fashion.

"Trash in, Trash out" -WG motto.

[El2aZeR]

Spoiler

 

And another cheat accusation collected.

 

[Yedwy]

Wait whaa? You were even gentle twards them 

[Glig69]

7 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

And another cheat accusation collected.

 

 

Nice to see the equal tier US BB, with supposedly better AA than a N Cal, being taken to the cleaners too.  Working as intended ... gj WG.

[Tirande]

9 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

And another cheat accusation collected.

 

High five!

Who needs DDs when the CV can cap right?

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

Spoiler

 

TIER X SUCKS BUFF NAO 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 19 Minuten, Europizza sagte:

  Inhalte verstecken

 

TIER X SUCKS BUFF NAO 

this right here is ecidently proof that CV as a whole is destroying games since you can't even leave spots for the dds in the top achieving ranks of exp earners is proof is proof that cv are so op and influential that no other surface ship or dd or cl or bb can do anything to influence the match since you even while using the inferior t8 cv totally dominate each and every one of the game completely invalidating the team aspect of the game because it all revolves around you and you only as a cv player there is noone else with that kind of level of influence even a potato has influence in a cv because he kills ships with permaspotting ribbons which will get patched in in 8.5 believe me this is the end all the good players left and the ones that are still here are not good players because stats are inflated by op broken cv wargaming please remove or leave option to play without cv for surface ship screw everyone who bought a prem cv they are cancer anyway lets just remove them and nerf guilio please its time that bb is a cv in disguise and gif money back not doblons also dont refund prem cv because global change and stuff you need to understand the development team makes mistakes too and this rework is one its totally fine it happens please correct it and dont listen to people who like cv they only stroke each other off and also this El2aZeR guy is a class of his own pls remove too

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

I think it is a good joke of WG to launch a class to make potatoes feel gut. 

Now fix it. This joke is taking too long. Players being a sudden unicum in a CV while they can’t even find the forward key in a normal ship...

 

Or change mm so that I get matched up against WG employees in my CV.  Just to make sure they have fun as well :)

[mcboernester]

59 minutes ago, LemonadeWarrior said:

I think it is a good joke of WG to launch a class to make potatoes feel gut. 

 

But BBs have already been in the game for a long time 

[AkulaTSR]

 

Just had a battle in the Hatsuharu , where i got near 8k took off me from rocket planes , in a DD with 12k HP 

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

1 hour ago, mcboernester said:

But BBs have already been in the game for a long time 

Pretty sure all the unired BB players are playing CV now. It's their last hope.

[anonym_WQDIB9XrzbSp]

16 hours ago, Thunderscreech said:

Yeah it was the DD which finished me off, I was forced to turn broadside to a spread from (I think it was a Yugumo?). But the match for me lasted a little over a minute hence the zero damage. While I'm not going to make any claims to be a fantastic player ( Do have some decent-ish results in the Musashi), trying to turn away from aerial torps, to receive a full broadside from a BB I couldn't see, only to run into the DD torps and finish me off was...immensely frustrating.

The Yugumo got to you in a minute? The BB broadsided you, but the CV is to blame? Upload the replay for feedback then?

[anonym_WQDIB9XrzbSp]

So, since there's a troll in another thread who wants to play without CV's, thinks they aren't 'naval' [] and has a few other gripes to deluded to cover here, lets make CV play optional.

 

You can play without CV's but the player base measures and stats shall be split, lets say Basic Mode (No CV) and Advanced Mode (Normal) so people can stick to basic, but no ranked, less XP, that kind of thing. A bit like coop - less of everything but stupidly easy gameplay?

 

Oh, and some kind of tag that reflects players who've opted to play basic as opposed to the full game, lest we have BB's trying to compare 400k dmg in a non CV game to actual achievement.

 

Surely everyone is happy then? All these new alt accounts popping up to cry can disappear and de-clutter the forums. Less potato in ranked too I would think since less tactically astute and those unable to read situational gameplay will sod off to Basic.

 

Obviously Basic Mode will be festooned with complaints, a variation-on-a-theme-of "OMG, DD OP, PLZ NERFZ", because some people will always be unadaptable snowflakes who can't overcome a challenge, but it's a thought right?

 

/discuss

 

[Thracen]

Splitting the player base kills games, it should not be done. I think if you are looking to contribute to a discussion, manners might also be of use. 

 

Anywho, back on topic. I think tactical CV play needs to be encouraged. the amount of games I see where CVs are successfully going after dds maneuvering like their hair is on fire. BBs that are under heavy AA protection from other ships and even those AA cruisers themselves are too many. Yes they might lose planes on the way out but it doesn't seem to matter. These are not targets a cv should be successfully striking early game!

 

Attached is a little of supporting evidence, 130 plane kills across the team, the Kaga was still putting up full squads right to the end of the game, of all types. I was stunned. Can anyone name be another ship that can play that recklessly and continue to do so for a full match and be rewarded for it?