CV Rework Discussion

[mcboernester]

Did some short training room testing yesterday on new he reticle if anybody is interested

 

[lovelacebeer]

One issue I have is the lack of communication with my CV when I'm playing as a DD, maybe it's just my bad luck but the number of times I line up a torpedo strike on a enemy ship and then my CV for some inexplicable reason decides to spook my intended target wasting my strike, which at high tiers means I now have a long reload time where I'm largely ineffective. 

 

Now at least in the old days of RTS the CV player could usually easily see the torps from his top down view but now in its current state I concede it must be harder for the CV to see my torps. 

 

I am aware there will always be deliberate griefears who would ruin a teammates strike but I can't believe that many CV players would deliberately hinder their own team so I assume it must be a communication issue, so I'm trying to think what would be the best way to give CVs a clearer indication that friendly torps are in the water.

[Procrastes]

1 hour ago, lovelacebeer said:

One issue I have is the lack of communication with my CV when I'm playing as a DD, maybe it's just my bad luck but the number of times I line up a torpedo strike on a enemy ship and then my CV for some inexplicable reason decides to spook my intended target wasting my strike, which at high tiers means I now have a long reload time where I'm largely ineffective. 

 

Now at least in the old days of RTS the CV player could usually easily see the torps from his top down view but now in its current state I concede it must be harder for the CV to see my torps. 

 

I am aware there will always be deliberate griefears who would ruin a teammates strike but I can't believe that many CV players would deliberately hinder their own team so I assume it must be a communication issue, so I'm trying to think what would be the best way to give CVs a clearer indication that friendly torps are in the water.

Yeah, this is very familiar.

And I'd bet a fair amount of money in-game credits that this not done out of spite by the CV player. You fly out, you see a choice of targets with a split second to decide which one to pick, and you go for him. While I'm certainly not in the top half of the player base when it comes to situational awareness, I doubt that there are many out there with the acuity to routinely take in and consider the risk of disrupting a DD torp strike while lining up an attack run.

 

The problem with this scenario - because it is real - has more to do the overbearing game impact of CV:s in general, than with spiteful allied players. A good CV captain, that does his job well, is more likely than not to mess up torpedo strikes for allied destroyers along the way. To be fair, this is by far one of the least vexing things about the new CV:s - but it is annoying as heck when it happens.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

17 hours ago, Saiyko said:

But all little whiners here that whine against CVs

 

So it is Farazelleth's fault?  He was fairly focal in his belief that RTS CV game play needed improvement, as were many other highly skilled and successful RTS CV players.

 

Personally, I don't see an issue with pointing perceived issues; and as for blame when implementation of change is poor... that falls solely on those doing the implementation (WG).

[Prospect_b]

6 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

So it is Farazelleth's fault?  He was fairly focal in his belief that RTS CV game play needed improvement, as were many other highly skilled and successful RTS CV players.

 

Personally, I don't see an issue with pointing perceived issues; and as for blame when implementation of change is poor... that falls solely on those doing the implementation (WG). 

Yea that's what I said indeed...

 

Anyway, I can understand whining about CV rework. But me and this playerbase went separate ways when they whined so hard that they made WG decide not to touch premium boats a few months ago.

Hence why I am fundamentally unable to take whiners seriously when they talk about balancing. Hence why I am genuinely entertained that something like Enterprise can not be (individually) nerfed.

[Procrastes]

5 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Anyway, I can understand whining about CV rework. But me and this playerbase went separate ways when they whined so hard that they made WG decide not to touch premium boats a few months ago.

Hence why I am fundamentally unable to take whiners seriously when they talk about balancing. Hence why I am genuinely entertained that something like Enterprise can not be (individually) nerfed.

Ouch...!

 

Although I for my part would be prepared to see the CV rework as a still on-going process, and accept any and all nerfs and tweaks to premium carriers as long as this made the game better overall, this could no doubt be described as a self-servicing and hypocritical stance on my side. So, well played and to the point, Sir!

[DFens_666]

8 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Yea that's what I said indeed...

 

Anyway, I can understand whining about CV rework. But me and this playerbase went separate ways when they whined so hard that they made WG decide not to touch premium boats a few months ago.

Hence why I am fundamentally unable to take whiners seriously when they talk about balancing. Hence why I am genuinely entertained that something like Enterprise can not be (individually) nerfed.

 

I dont think, playerbase was against nerfing Premiums in general. They just didnt like the way WG wanted to go with the nerf. Uptiering Premium ships... imo thats crap way to "balance" something. Just nerf whatever is broken and its ok.
I believe, WG specifically went with that "nerf" cause they knew people would be against it. Compared to normal buffs/nerfs, which imo would have passed the playerbase opinion.

[Yedwy]

All they need to do is institute full reimbursement for the premiums they want to nerf, and that smarts

[Toivia]

1 hour ago, Yedwy said:

All they need to do is institute full reimbursement for the premiums they want to nerf, and that smarts

That's exactly the thing. The playerbase would have no reason to be against nerfing of premium ships if they had the option to get out of the bind. I am very much wanting to nerf the infamous premium OP ships, but I cannot really accept WG starting to do it routinely without reimbursement. That would allow them to release every new ship OP, wait for enough sales of it and then nerfing it right away. That is just not right.

Fact is though, they will never reimburse players in such a manner, so nerfing of premium ships is in limbo. The only thing available going forward is to be very careful of releasing any strong premium ships. At the first hint they might be OP, they need to be changed prior to release (while informing CCs and players, I'd like to add). Only when a select premium ship end up perfrming badly after the release is it time to start incremental buffs. That is the only way to avoid any more OP unnerfable premiums in the future. However it requires good testing and WG listening to CCs etc. Again, not very likely.

[Panocek]

27 minutes ago, Toivia said:

That's exactly the thing. The playerbase would have no reason to be against nerfing of premium ships if they had the option to get out of the bind. I am very much wanting to nerf the infamous premium OP ships, but I cannot really accept WG starting to do it routinely without reimbursement. That would allow them to release every new ship OP, wait for enough sales of it and then nerfing it right away. That is just not right.

Fact is though, they will never reimburse players in such a manner, so nerfing of premium ships is in limbo. The only thing available going forward is to be very careful of releasing any strong premium ships. At the first hint they might be OP, they need to be changed prior to release (while informing CCs and players, I'd like to add). Only when a select premium ship end up perfrming badly after the release is it time to start incremental buffs. That is the only way to avoid any more OP unnerfable premiums in the future. However it requires good testing and WG listening to CCs etc. Again, not very likely.

Or make premium ships purchasable by doubloons only. If you want X, buy enough doubloons. Don't like it/got changed? Sell for doubloons.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

2 hours ago, Saiyko said:

Yea that's what I said indeed...

 

Anyway, I can understand whining about CV rework. But me and this playerbase went separate ways when they whined so hard that they made WG decide not to touch premium boats a few months ago.

Hence why I am fundamentally unable to take whiners seriously when they talk about balancing. Hence why I am genuinely entertained that something like Enterprise can not be (individually) nerfed.

WG plans to nerf Giulio Cesare were 'bad', because they were told before they sold it that it was OP or near OP, but they sold it anyway.  Once they had the cash then they wanted to nerf it... that is rather poor ethics.  I don't own the ship, but if WG was serious they would have refunded the cash, then re-balanced it.

 

I believe WGs ethics are showing up again in premium CVs, grab the cash and then in the future we will globally nerf all CVs.  I don't believe global nerfs to CVs is the correct path, because the stats available do not show Tier 4 CVs performing like Teir 10s or tier 8s.  Some silver CVs are going to suffer disproportionately with global nerfs.

[Xevious_Red]

4 hours ago, lovelacebeer said:

One issue I have is the lack of communication with my CV when I'm playing as a DD, maybe it's just my bad luck but the number of times I line up a torpedo strike on a enemy ship and then my CV for some inexplicable reason decides to spook my intended target wasting my strike, which at high tiers means I now have a long reload time where I'm largely ineffective. 

 

Now at least in the old days of RTS the CV player could usually easily see the torps from his top down view but now in its current state I concede it must be harder for the CV to see my torps. 

 

I am aware there will always be deliberate griefears who would ruin a teammates strike but I can't believe that many CV players would deliberately hinder their own team so I assume it must be a communication issue, so I'm trying to think what would be the best way to give CVs a clearer indication that friendly torps are in the water.

You can see friendly torps perfectly easily in plane view.

The only time you can't is if they're behind you, but in that case the plane is hardly spooking your target, since its already closer than you are.

 

So really the possibilities are;

-They're not really paying attention to friendly torps, and likely strikes, since friendly torps dont affect them.

-They haven't really considered that how they move their planes might affect how the enemy reacts

-They dont really care. They get xp and credits for their damage, not yours.

-Loads and loads of DD are utterly useless and their torps will never hit anything. You get used to seeing waves of friendly torps that will never hit anything anyway, so they've decided to get it done themselves.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

6 hours ago, lovelacebeer said:

One issue I have is the lack of communication with my CV when I'm playing as a DD, maybe it's just my bad luck but the number of times I line up a torpedo strike on a enemy ship and then my CV for some inexplicable reason decides to spook my intended target wasting my strike, which at high tiers means I now have a long reload time where I'm largely ineffective. 

 

Now at least in the old days of RTS the CV player could usually easily see the torps from his top down view but now in its current state I concede it must be harder for the CV to see my torps. 

 

I am aware there will always be deliberate griefears who would ruin a teammates strike but I can't believe that many CV players would deliberately hinder their own team so I assume it must be a communication issue, so I'm trying to think what would be the best way to give CVs a clearer indication that friendly torps are in the water.

I usually check if there are friendly torps on their way, and if i think they're good I usually find myself a new target and return to the other target once it is  actually hit by the dd torps wave to try and invoke DOT by flooding or fires. But I have to say that I learned the hard way that the current CV's are designed for damage farming and nothing much else, like most unicums will tell you. Any second not spent dealing damage is a risk to the team losing. Which actually bums me out since I usually prefer play support classes in games. So I do get a little out of my way to help teammates, but I also lose matches because of that to be fair. In all honesty it is a bad habit I have a hard time shedding because damage farming is boring as hell.

The Midway for instance can't afford to help anyone deterring from it's damage race if the team wants a chance to win the round, which makes playing it actually surprisingly boring compared to the tier 8 CV's. In tier 8 you get some leeway to help your team, in tier X, forget it. One has to assume your friendly team is bad at most and are forced to race for damage, or bust.

[Lebedjev]

Can a midway nuke pratically all my low/mid Moskva's AA, with only one rocket air drop ?

[Yamato942]

1 hour ago, Lebedjev said:

Can a midway nuke pratically all my low/mid Moskva's AA, with only one rocket air drop ?

No

[Lebedjev]

So Alaska and Hindenburg blap all my low/mid AA, with 8 hit ?

 

 

 

 

[ApolloF117]

"AA mounts hp were buffed"

[El2aZeR]

Got called a cheater for nuking a Wichita with Enterprise AP DBs.

 

[AirSupremacy]

If a T6 carrier could drive inside a T8 CV, and the T8 in to the T10 - That would be Supreme.

 

So 1v1 CV, but due to the Matryoshka principle it would be a beloved 3v3 CV match as the belly is opened for the full CV release.

 

The T10 Mama can protect the CV children from within.

[Tirande]

Meanwhile in CV trashwork the game: ran into a new fun little bug; trying to DB something with Enterprise and the DBs refused to drop bombs, no matter how much imput is given. But let's not think about gameplay impairing bugs! Better nerf CVs some more so the Cyka Blyattleships don't get shat on by them! :D

[RedV]

I have played about 600-700 matches with DD against CV included teams. Here are the problems about CV gameplay which totally wrecks DD gameplay:

1- A DD has no way to defend himself against rocket plane attacks. Please do not sing about maneuvering. One of the best maneuverable DD in the game is UDALOI and i could never escaped from rocket attacks by maneuvering with even UDALOI. The only way is to hide in smoke but the planes are too fast and it's even impossible to set smoke and stop in it before rocket attack launched. And also the position that u stopped can be very very easily aimed by CV player and booommmm nothing changes. At least 7-8 k damages taken. So the result: A DD can handle with maximum 3 rockets attacks (usually finished in 2).  Furthermore CV gamplay allows endless plane attacks for CV players. Maneuvers can only useful against bombers & torp planes which are not already needed while rocket planes can easily sink a DD.

2- In some matches CVs loose 80 planes but it doesnt change anything for CV. In current CV gameplay "Loosing 1 plane = loosing 80 planes" for CV player. How can WG designers argue that this is sense, i cant understand.

3- CVs are fast. For a DD it's almost impossible to catch & kill him with torps or gunfire.  No worries for CV when a DD spotted him. Turn your back and run full speed. Nothing a DD can do.

4- I dont know why but fire is not a thread for a CV also. 

5- What a CV player should worry about in battle? Sneaking DD attacks? No. Plane looses? No. Air attacks? No. Gunfire attacks? No. Nothing. Park behind an island and spam your planes. Find DD's first and finish them with rockets. After then try to make as much damage as you can with your bombers&torpido planes. That's all. No matter if ur targets have good AA. That only makes you to loose more planes but who cares: spam more. 

 

After all WG announces that they nerf bombers in favor of DDs. Kidding? Are you confused??? DDs are being killed by rockets. Not by bombers! DDs need at least a single option to defend themselves against rocket attacks. DDs already have the way of meneuvering to escape from bombers.

 

I really can not understand WG... Are you really want people to try other games?

 

 

 

[Yedwy]

Udaloi is fast i ll grant you this, but "one of best manouvering"? Really?  We must have very different cryteria about what that term implys m8

[Beaker71]

1 hour ago, RedV said:

DDs are being killed by rockets. Not by bombers! DDs need at least a single option to defend themselves against rocket attacks. DDs already have the way of meneuvering to escape from bombers.

 

 

Depends on the CV - but a CV can/does take off 33% of your health in one bomb drop, from 50 feet up the air, it's almost impossible to dodge.

[HaachamaShipping]

So, one thing that really pisses me off about the new CVs...

 

Those BS air group loadouts. Like, I'm somewhat ok with ships that actually use naval aircraft for their intented purpose, even if they never really fielded them (e.g. Kaga's Tenzans and Suiseis), but then there's the GZ with its Ta152s that were designed as high altitude bombers, not as bombers or dive bombers and were never used in that way and even worse (because at least Germany had not much in RL alternatives), crap like Haku's J5N Tenrais. Why the hell does this ship use a J5N, a twin-engine prototype of a land-based heavy fighter/interceptor, which is not just heavy for a CV plane, but also with that weight not designed to carry more than a 250 kg bomb? And this although you could have just as well just used the B7A Ryuusei as the standard bomber (for both roles) and the Reppu as CV fighter, given both obtain similar speeds without being ridiculous, as these were designed for those roles. If I were to get a Hakuryu, I'd really consider just using the goddamn Saiun, because that thing at least actually had a proposed torpedo bomber variant. 

[Thunderscreech]

This has probably been brought up already elsewhere, but after my last match I felt utterly compelled to head to the forums to grumble.  I'm not sorry for doing so.

 

I am so TIRED of joining matches with CV's as a BB (Last match Musashi), only to be spotted in the first 30 seconds of the match and utterly burned to the ground before I can even get into a position to contribute to a match. Before I had spotted an enemy ship I had been blasted by ships I couldn't even see thanks to the planes spotting me. Just so that my first (I think) ever forum post isn't a complete gripe, might I suggest something to consider - Putting weak AA ships closer to other ships on match start, to avoid instant nuking by aircraft, I was completely on my own in the last match (not the first time). Even against a T8 CV the first rocket attack shaved off quite the chunk of HP. I have read the note about CV's having a flight delay at the beginning of a match which might solve the problem. It would at least allow people to get into a better AA aegis formation.

 

I'm probably opening myself up for some flak here, but this is such a depressing result >.>