CV Rework Discussion

[Culiacan_Mexico]

1 minute ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

These stats look quite healthy to me

Raw data, so rather hard to make a determination. Higher Tier DD plays has decreased 4%, but conclusion from this are difficult to draw... other than Higher Teir DD play is down about 16%.

 

Player Average for Ship classes [ at 2019/01/12 ]

DDs

High Tier 24.5%

Low Tier 24%

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, Culiacan_Mexico sagte:

Raw data, so rather hard to make a determination. Higher Tier DD plays has decreased 4%, but conclusion from this are difficult to draw... other than Higher Teir DD play is down about 16%.

 

Player Average for Ship classes [ at 2019/01/12 ]

DDs

High Tier 24.5%

Low Tier 24%

DD players who played before could also be away for trying RU BBs and the reworked CVs. It's only natural for those numbers to decrease in times where new content that is not DD related is added to the game. To draw real conclusions you would have to really check the stats after one year has passed to draw real conclusions.

But as it stands now, 2 DDs average per game is quite healthy.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

13 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

But as it stands now, 2 DDs average per game is quite healthy.

I understand your opinion on the subject.

[EgyptOverseer]

When is anyone going to address the elephant in the room, in the shape of survivability rates of CVs being absurdly high, the higher the tier?

 

 

We are here discussing population, and in the meantime the last surviving ship in a match with CVs is always at least one CV. What other class could ever say the same thing? 

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 1 Minute, EgyptOverseer sagte:

When is anyone going to address the elephant in the room, in the shape of survivability rates of CVs being absurdly high, the higher the tier?

 

 

What is there to adress? How do you want to decrease those rates?

A CV is a ship capable of moving itself whereever whenever. Since this is possible it's only natural to move to a location where the CV player is untouchable. How are you ever going to adress this? It's not possible.

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

What is there to adress? How do you want to decrease those rates?

A CV is a ship capable of moving itself whereever whenever. Since this is possible it's only natural to move to a location where the CV player is untouchable. How are you ever going to adress this? It's not possible.

 

You could limit the capability of starting planes to the speed of the hull, i.e. If a CV is going full speed, it cant start any planes. That would allow other ships to catch up to the CV if they want to engage it.

Oh god, i feal the hate coming for this "suggestion"

 

Other option would be, to have a maximum range for planes, so CVs cant attack at 30 or 40km from their hull.

 

10 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

When is anyone going to address the elephant in the room, in the shape of survivability rates of CVs being absurdly high, the higher the tier?

We are here discussing population, and in the meantime the last surviving ship in a match with CVs is always at least one CV. What other class could ever say the same thing? 

 

Nah comrade, is gud and balans. CV highest damage and highest survivability = no problem, working as intended

[Culiacan_Mexico]

Player Average for Ships [ at 2019/04/27 ]
				survived
US	CV	4	Langley	54.38
US	CV	6	Ranger	62.49
US	CV	8	Enterprise	76.67
US	CV	8	Lexington	73.38
US	CV	8	Saipan	77.93
US	CV	10	Midway	76.83
Player Average for Ships [ at 2019/01/19 ]
				survived
US	CV	4	Langley	57.56
US	CV	5	Bogue	56.24
US	CV	6	Independence	66.49
US	CV	7	Ranger	56.81
US	CV	7	Saipan	81.67
US	CV	8	Enterprise	77.5
US	CV	8	Lexington	63.79
US	CV	9	Essex	70.31
US	CV	10	Midway	74.89

[El2aZeR]

5 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

That would allow other ships to catch up to the CV if they want to engage it.

 

Or I just sail half speed in a circle way out of range of any artillery or torp.

I mean I guess auto pilot could  up and prevent me from doing this but that's a different issue entirely.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

15 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

What is there to adress? How do you want to decrease those rates?

A CV is a ship capable of moving itself whereever whenever. Since this is possible it's only natural to move to a location where the CV player is untouchable. How are you ever going to adress this? It's not possible.

O but it is very much possible. When spotted most CV's can tank exemplary due to the abundance of fighter plane consumables, repairs, armor (high tier), 5 sec fire duraction etc. CV's are durable beyond stupid, because designed for stupid (me). All that's needed is a autopilot path thats at a nice angle, and avoid torps every now and then :P Even in my Midway, in which I specifically suck (37% WR 11 matches), my survivale rate is currently sitting at 100%. That's just silly.

 

CV's can easily do without the 5 sec fires and the insane auto fighter consumable spam for starters.

[Panocek]

12 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

You could limit the capability of starting planes to the speed of the hull, i.e. If a CV is going full speed, it cant start any planes. That would allow other ships to catch up to the CV if they want to engage it.

Oh god, i feal the hate coming for this "suggestion"

Well, WW2 era carriers were expected to clock 30kts or more not because fast and furious, but to help with takeoff and landing, where lack of extra 50kmh airspeed can mean "run out of runway" for pilot

 

So if anything standing still should have negative impact on plane operations

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

Or I just sail half speed in a circle way out of range of any artillery or torp.

I mean I guess auto pilot could  up and prevent me from doing this but that's a different issue entirely.

 

Well imo the problem is, that even idiots can survive in CVs all day long. No problem if good CV players can survive most of the time. Good players in other classes can get a good survival rate aswell.

 

1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Well, WW2 era carriers were expected to clock 30kts or more not because fast and furious, but to help with takeoff and landing, where lack of extra 50kmh airspeed can mean "run out of runway" for pilot

So if anything standing still should have negative impact on plane operations

 

Its not like, allof WGs mechanics are intuitive So i dont see an issue there

You could have a CV moving at all times >3/4 speed to start planes, might work equally good. Either go in a straightline or dont start planes?

[Panocek]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well imo the problem is, that even idiots can survive in CVs all day long. No problem if good CV players can survive most of the time. Good players in other classes can get a good survival rate aswell.

 

 

Its not like, allof WGs mechanics are intuitive So i dont see an issue there

You could have a CV moving at all times >3/4 speed to start planes, might work equally good. Either go in a straightline or dont start planes?

Considering takeoff takes like 5s, I don't see how "don't maneuver" would affect CV running from angry mob.

 

2 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well imo the problem is, that even idiots can survive in CVs all day long. No problem if good CV players can survive most of the time. Good players in other classes can get a good survival rate aswell.

So, you're suggesting reintroducing this bug, of carrier spawning like in front of enemy team?

 

[El2aZeR]

3 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Well imo the problem is, that even idiots can survive in CVs all day long. No problem if good CV players can survive most of the time. Good players in other classes can get a good survival rate aswell.

 

Considering bad CV players have next to no match impact anyway I don't believe their hull survival is particularly relevant. Nothing is lost or gained for either team since CVs are mirrored, as such no side loses points unless one of the CVs is REALLY .

[Toivia]

2 hours ago, Systergummi said:

What I am saying is that people should try to get over their PTSD and try DDs again. I feel that many players transitioned to other classes, it might be why Im doing better now

I am really not sure about that. I am getting shat on pretty much every battle by planes*, and that is in decent AA cruisers Alaska and Azuma (and République). Those are actually ships that at least some of the time can deal with being spotted (never mind attacked by the planes). In a DD, I really never want to be spotted unless I engage in some gunboating (which you know, I wouldn't, cause IJN DDs mostly) and obviously don't want to get attacked. every 1k hp counts.

 

*Yesterday was an especially "fun" battle with Alaska vs. double Shokaku. Went down with 31 planes shot down because I just couldn't angle against both plane torps and enemy team.

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, Toivia said:

*Yesterday was an especially "fun" battle with Alaska vs. double Shokaku. Went down with 31 planes shot down because I just couldn't angle against both plane torps and enemy team.

Teamwork OP pls nerf

[Toivia]

3 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Teamwork OP pls nerf

I guess so, especially after a Colorado switches to HE even after he citadelled me with a previous salvo. Point is, I was over 15kms away from enemies, I would never be spotted if it weren't for the planes. And once they started focusing me (at that point I believe only one Shokaku was actually alive), I just couldn't do anything.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

It's happening as predicted earlier! They "nerfed" Midway Bombs for DDs sake and now they are going to be the most OP thing against all BB captains where the dmg actually matters ♡

I can't wait for all the BB rage threads ☆ DDs were never intended to be focused all game by HE bombs anyways why did you even cry!? ☆

Now your games will fall apart with your teams BBs burning mercilessly. ♡

 

[El2aZeR]

Funny thing is they actually buffed DBs by giving them Enterprise DB accuracy (no penalties while maneuvering), meaning you can now attack from the same hilarious angles as E.

This may also just outright negate the thing they tried to fix, namely trying to give DDs more room to dodge. I can sometimes engage a target effectively in E at an almost 90° angle which is extremely funny.

[DFens_666]

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

Considering takeoff takes like 5s, I don't see how "don't maneuver" would affect CV running from angry mob. 

I think even small adjustements might help. Ofc everyone can have a different pov about survivability, but CVs shouldnt have 75%, while others are at 25-40%. Everything about 40% is imo not right.

The major problem is, if you get to a CV(s), the time or points are already ticking, so most of the time that saves them, and i hate it. Ive had so many CVs survive with <20% HP, because the game ended. Just let me kill them

 

1 hour ago, Panocek said:

So, you're suggesting reintroducing this bug, of carrier spawning like in front of enemy team?

Good idea to bring the CV survivability down

 

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

Considering bad CV players have next to no match impact anyway I don't believe their hull survival is particularly relevant. Nothing is lost or gained for either team since CVs are mirrored, as such no side loses points unless one of the CVs is REALLY .

 

I dont agree 100%. Ive had above average CV players, that i couldnt kill because they threw so much crap at me. He couldnt have done it if the change i mentioned.

[El2aZeR]

Just now, DFens_666 said:

Just let me kill them

 

So if every enemy ship just explodes at the end of a match that'd be fine and fix things?

 

1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

I dont agree 100%. Ive had above average CV players, that i couldnt kill because they threw so much crap at me. He couldnt have done it if the change i mentioned.

 

Funny thing about reworked CVs: The closer you get, the more deadly they become. Chances are you would've died even faster had you been able to close the distance more.

You may actually do CVs a favor by making more people think they can hunt them down.

[DFens_666]

17 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

So if every enemy ship just explodes at the end of a match that'd be fine and fix things?

Ive been thinking about that aswell, but that might only help those tard BBs who are "NEED TO SURVIVE AT ALL COST". Maybe they wouldnt be so [edited]cowardly

 

Quote

Funny thing about reworked CVs: The closer you get, the more deadly they become. Chances are you would've died even faster had you been able to close the distance more.

You may actually do CVs a favor by making more people think they can hunt them down.

 

Eh... I was <8km in my Fiji when he was reversing from me. His only tactic was start plane, drop, F, next squad, Drop, F and so forth. It was so retarded Couldnt get any closer because of all the dodging. Funny thing, if he would have taken rockets, he would have killed me 3 times faster, but he tried with TBs couple of times which i could dodge.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 17 Minuten, DFens_666 sagte:

but he tried with TBs couple of times which i could dodge. 

So you bullied a potato CV?

[DFens_666]

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

So you bullied a potato CV?

 

Actually he had pretty decent stats (>60% with CVs). I tried to turn the game around, it was 3 vs him, he had to die in order to win. But my Potato DD and BB didnt help, so we lost. Neither capped nor were they in a position to shoot him

A potato CV would have most likely died, but he reversed staying fully angled against me.

[El2aZeR]

55 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Eh... I was <8km in my Fiji when he was reversing from me.

 

Yup, that's well within the distance in which CVs become utterly hilarious in DPM output. To put this into perspective I once "outgunned" a Monty, Roma, Moskva and Z-52 with the enemy CV attempting to snipe me in my Midway. Easiest 200k damage I farmed in my life.

(They were allowed to push straight through middle on Trap giving me no escape options. I died to the last salvo but proceeded to murder a Musashi for a Kraken anyway with my last squad. I probably could have survived if auto pilot wasn't completely .) It's only within your own AA range that you get the advantage once again since you can then shoot down returning squadrons.

 

Assuming sufficient skill higher tier CVs are the deadliest mid-range fighters by far funnily enough.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 6 Minuten, El2aZeR sagte:

 

Yup, that's well within the distance in which CVs become utterly hilarious in DPM output. To put this into perspective I once "outgunned" a Monty, Roma, Moskva and Z-52 with the enemy CV attempting to snipe me in my Midway. Easiest 200k damage I farmed in my life.

(They were allowed to push straight through middle on Trap giving me no escape options. I died to the last salvo but proceeded to murder a Musashi for a Kraken anyway with my last squad. I probably could have survived if auto pilot wasn't completely .) It's only within your own AA range that you get the advantage once again since you can then shoot down returning squadrons.

 

Assuming sufficient skill higher tier CVs are the deadliest mid-range fighters by far funnily enough.

I had something similiar happen to me on 2 brothers, Montana pushed my Midway, full life of course and i couldn't turn away so i reversed, spammed it with all i had, killed it in 2 minutes, permafires and floods, hilarious tiny tim and HE alpha spam and some floods here and there. he wasn't happy in chat about the shells i bounced during the 4 times he could fire at me LOL