CV Rework Discussion

[Tirande]

2 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

Well they can but you usually have to get a hull which sacrifices a gun or something...

That's only really true for Benson and below though, Fletcher, Gearing, Grozovoi, Udaloi, Harugumo, Kitakaze are all fine. You just have to use the AA sector correctly and you'll shred planes like they're made of wet toilet paper, of course this knowledge is top sekret and only known to CV players clearly. Of course the people spreading a false narrative in regards to AA would have you believe otherwise, but that's all normal within their cultural twitter riot sphere.

 

Oh and of course you have to sacrifice the engine boost module for AA fire on US DDs but I guess that's too much to ask from the Edit* who claim AA is too weak because they can't sail in a straight line from their base to the CV's location while spraying torps and HE shells across the map, instagibbing the entire enemy team and shooting down every single plane that comes within a 5km radius outside of their spotting range.

[HaachamaShipping]

3 hours ago, Procrastes said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Buff a certain ship type so much that it owns the battlefield, and people will play it until it is nerfed. Once Wargaming gets around to rebalancing the new carriers to more reasonable levels of game impact, those numbers will most likely change.

 

But yes, that is one seriously bizarre queuing screen. What tier was it?

Well, even then, it seems more than just the diehard CV fan core is playing CVs and is getting some kicks out of it. And to be fair, while even a dumb CV can be frustrating due to passive spotting and some harrassing, a good few people keep playing them despite being unable to "own the battlefield". In general, to me, this is just a sign that anyone who's ranting about how CVs are just played by a minority and that WG should just sack them altogether should rethink that stance.

1 hour ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

I would call a higher Bomb dispersion even a buff to HE bombs since then they cover more of the BBs surface and can set more fires LOL ☆

That's why Brit bombers are so much better than Freedom ones, right? Oh, wait...

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 53 Minuten, Cagliostro_chan sagte:

That's why Brit bombers are so much better than Freedom ones, right? Oh, wait..

i think you made one big oopsie ☆

 

because the uk are only inferior because of lacking pen and absurd bomb fall times ☆♡☆

 

If brit divebombs had midway bombs pen and fall time they would be very op ☆

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

i think you made one big oopsie ☆

 

because the uk are only inferior because of lacking pen and absurd bomb fall times ☆♡☆

 

If brit divebombs had midway bombs pen and fall time they would be very op ☆

Not really. If you get DBed or carpet bombed in a Brit BB or French BB (32 mm plating, so pen doesn't matter), it's basically not much difference whether it's an Audacious or a Midway. The best the Audacious really can do is set a few more fires. But alpha damage is not too different in my experience. If you meanwhile look at cruisers or DDs, yeah, lol, Midway wrecks them so much harder, compared to Audacious that drops most bombs into the sea. And if you think that farming fire damage off BBs is more useful than nuking a DD or cruiser with precision DBs, then that is an "oopsie", I guess.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

2 hours ago, Systergummi said:

Played three games this morning, and Im not sure that I think the whole revork is as bad for DDs as people make it out to be.

 

Check server stats for all four regions.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 2 Minuten, Cagliostro_chan sagte:

Not really. If you get DBed or carpet bombed in a Brit BB or French BB (32 mm plating, so pen doesn't matter), it's basically not much difference whether it's an Audacious or a Midway. The best the Audacious really can do is set a few more fires. But alpha damage is not too different in my experience. If you meanwhile look at cruisers or DDs, yeah, lol, Midway wrecks them so much harder, compared to Audacious that drops most bombs into the sea. And if you think that farming fire damage off BBs is more useful than nuking a DD or cruiser with precision DBs, then that is an "oopsie", I guess.

the difference is that i can hit a GK for 22k alpha on unsaturaded parts with Midway HE where i get only shatters with the audacious.

Audacious Bombers would crap on everything if they had Midway pen.

[HaachamaShipping]

1 minute ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

the difference is that i can hit a GK for 22k alpha on unsaturaded parts with Midway HE where i get only shatters with the audacious.

Audacious Bombers would crap on everything if they had Midway pen.

Because if you take Audacious bombers and bomb a Conqueror where you get no shatters you get way more than 22k damage?

[DasTongle]

1 minute ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

the difference is that i can hit a GK for 22k alpha on unsaturaded parts with Midway HE where i get only shatters with the audacious.

Audacious Bombers would crap on everything if they had Midway pen.

 

I still feel like i quiet crap hard on everything when i do a 13k carpetbomb strike.

Sure it just works one time after that Saturation is kicking in rather harsh. Still it's fun. sometimes. Even on Kurfursts

[Sub_Human]

16 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Check server stats for all four regions.

Enlighten me.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

Just now, Systergummi said:

Enlighten me.

Really? OK.  Quote: "Played three games this morning, and Im not sure that I think the whole revork is as bad for DDs as people make it out to be."

 

Using three games played to conclude anything regarding the overall Meta across four regions... is questionable.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

US DDs average aircraft destroyed.  EU server. Two months.

 

Using the capabilities of the destroyer Kid to justify their position on DD AA is no more valid that someone using the destroyer Wickes to justify their position.

 

Note: Kidd has the highest average aircraft kills of all DDs, regardless of nationality.

 

 

US	DD	3	Wickes	0.11
US	DD	4	Clemson	0.29
US	DD	5	Nicholas	2.82
US	DD	6	Farragut	1.22
US	DD	6	Monaghan	2.79
US	DD	7	Mahan	0.98
US	DD	7	Sims	3.4
US	DD	8	Benson	2.21
US	DD	8	Kidd	6.31
US	DD	9	Benham	0
US	DD	9	Black	1.68
US	DD	9	Fletcher	1.86
US	DD	10	Gearing	2.36

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 18 Minuten, Cagliostro_chan sagte:

Because if you take Audacious bombers and bomb a Conqueror where you get no shatters you get way more than 22k damage?

But this is the issue. Why are we arguing about situational use versus crap on literally everything except armored decks and turrets?

Fact is that if Midway HE Bombs could cover more then half the BB you would not only always set 2 or more fires, you would also do consistent 20k hits every attack run. With the Audacious you can do that on select few targets if you hit at all thanks to slow bomb fall.

Who cares about bombing DDs anyways anymore. Just blapp the BBs and you win if your team isn't totally braindead.

Games are lost believe it or not by the team with less BBs alive in the endgame. Because BBs endgame are such a powerful backbone if properly supported it's not even funny. If the enemy BBs don't oppose your cruisers you win.

The Audacious is for a reason told to be the worst t10 CV at the moment. Even Hakuryo is more useful with its AP Bombers on cruisers.

[Sub_Human]

8 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Really? OK.  Quote: "Played three games this morning, and Im not sure that I think the whole revork is as bad for DDs as people make it out to be."

 

Using three games played to conclude anything regarding the overall Meta across four regions... is questionable.

If you continued reading I also said that my winrate for the last month is about 70%. I only play DDs so Im not hurting as bad as people say I should. I posted todays 3 games because t8 and CVs. In contrast to what people are writing all over the forums and Reddit Im actually doing better after the rework and Im doing better in t8. Why that is Im not sure.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

I also want to add that most of my lost games are because there are 2 or more BBs with a single cruiser alive on the enemy team with more then 50% health with points lead and 4minutes left. Killing them in 4 Minutes is just near impossible with reduced plane reserves and focus on dot damage. You lack the alpha, "nerfing" HE Bomber dispersion would allow me to kill one BB in 3 easy attack runs ( easy 40k + damage without dots)

[Sub_Human]

22 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

US DDs average aircraft destroyed.  EU server. Two months.

 

Using the capabilities of the destroyer Kid to justify their position on DD AA is no more valid that someone using the destroyer Wickes to justify their position.

 

Note: Kidd has the highest average aircraft kills of all DDs, regardless of nationality.

 

 

US	DD	3	Wickes	0.11
US	DD	4	Clemson	0.29
US	DD	5	Nicholas	2.82
US	DD	6	Farragut	1.22
US	DD	6	Monaghan	2.79
US	DD	7	Mahan	0.98
US	DD	7	Sims	3.4
US	DD	8	Benson	2.21
US	DD	8	Kidd	6.31
US	DD	9	Benham	0
US	DD	9	Black	1.68
US	DD	9	Fletcher	1.86
US	DD	10	Gearing	2.36

Yes Kidd can be played in a way no other t8 DD can. Im not arguing about that, but Im doing fine in most DDs. Those I cant play are the large ones without smoke. Khaba, Tashkent etc.

In the Kidd game I posted I provoked the CVs by capping their base and they had to reset me, I wouldnt have gotten those planekills any other way, and no other DD could have done the same. I also had cover/spotting by one of our CVs.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

5 minutes ago, Systergummi said:

If you continued reading I also said that my winrate for the last month is about 70%. I only play DDs so Im not hurting as bad as people say I should.

Zero sum.  Any change in Meta will effect individuals differently, so if you are doing better, due to game changes, then others are doing worse. 

 

0.8.0 Hakuryu was completely OP/Unbalanced and many players,  up until its release, were completely red stats players... even in CVs.  After they were Super Unicom players with +70% win rates, which of course means by default there were players with horrible win rate to balance that out. deep in the red

 

					Win	Exp	Damage	Kills
JP	CV	10		Hakuryu	51.95	2289	108124	1.16

[Culiacan_Mexico]

5 minutes ago, Systergummi said:

Yes Kidd can be played in a way no other t8 DD can. Im not arguing about that, but Im doing fine in most DDs. Those I cant play are the large ones without smoke. Khaba, Tashkent etc.

In the Kidd game I posted I provoked the CVs by capping their base and they had to reset me, I wouldnt have gotten those planekills any other way, and no other DD could have done the same. I also had cover/spotting by one of our CVs.

When it comes to DDs and AA, I don't think this can be the primary form of DD defense against aircraft (in game).  Sure some DDs can do well against your average CV player, but the majority of destroyers were never primarily designed historically to be AA platforms, so WG is going to have to take a lot of liberties if they want to continue down that path. Design issue.

 

In this META some DDs are doing  ok, while some are not.  It just depends on the DD.

 

 

Two Months

				Win	Exp	Damage	Kills
Player Average for Ships [ at 2019/01/12 ]
SN	DD	10	Grozovoi	51.63	1565	48403	0.8
Player Average for Ships [ at 2019/04/27 ]
SN	DD	10	Grozovoi	51.96	1620	46533	0.76

 

 

[Sub_Human]

8 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

Zero sum.  Any change in Meta will effect individuals differently, so if you are doing better, due to game changes, then others are doing worse. 

 

0.8.0 Hakuryu was completely OP/Unbalanced and many players,  up until its release, were completely red stats players... even in CVs.  After they were Super Unicom players with +70% win rates, which of course means by default there were players with horrible win rate to balance that out. deep in the red

 

					Win	Exp	Damage	Kills
JP	CV	10		Hakuryu	51.95	2289	108124	1.16

Jupp 0.8.0 Haku was very Balans. I think Midway still might be Op. Im not arguing about CV balance. Balance would be 3-3-3-3 games where everyone was having a good time and was able to affect the game-outcome. CVs are not and have never been balanced. The cap in numbers is a clear testiment to that.

 

What I am saying is that people should try to get over their PTSD and try DDs again. I feel that many players transitioned to other classes, it might be why Im doing better now

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 3 Minuten, Systergummi sagte:

Jupp 0.8.0 Haku was very Balans. I think Midway still might be Op. Im not arguing about CV balance. Balance would be 3-3-3-3 games where everyone was having a good time and was able to affect the game-outcome. CVs are not and have never been balanced. The cap in numbers is a clear testiment to that.

 

What I am saying is that people should try to get over their PTSD and try DDs again. I feel that many players transitioned to other classes, it might be why Im doing better now

DD games haven't actually decreased either. Nearly all my games involve 4 DDs on each team lately. People are starting to get used to it.

[Sub_Human]

9 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

When it comes to DDs and AA, I don't think this can be the primary form of DD defense against aircraft (in game). 

Exactly what I think. You should be able to mitigate the damage some other way. Dodgeing, hiding, smoke and friendly AA is what works today. This however really screws with ships like the run and gun DDs of the main line Russians.

[Sub_Human]

10 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

DD games haven't actually decreased either. Nearly all my games involve 4 DDs on each team lately. People are starting to get used to it.

Im also experiencing a comeback. But Im still seeing a lot of 1-2 DD games, only the occasionall with 4.

Have you seen any recent stats?

[Culiacan_Mexico]

26 minutes ago, L0V3_and_PE4CE said:

DD games haven't actually decreased either. Nearly all my games involve 4 DDs on each team lately. People are starting to get used to it.

Player Average for Ship classes [ at 2019/04/27 ] Two months

 

High Tier    DD 20.5% of ship played.  Average per team 2.4

Low Tier     DD 23% of ship played.  Average per team 2.7

 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

26 minutes ago, Systergummi said:

Exactly what I think. You should be able to mitigate the damage some other way. Dodgeing, hiding, smoke and friendly AA is what works today. This however really screws with ships like the run and gun DDs of the main line Russians.

It is not an easy design issue, that is for sure.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

1 hour ago, Systergummi said:

Exactly what I think. You should be able to mitigate the damage some other way. Dodgeing, hiding, smoke and friendly AA is what works today. This however really screws with ships like the run and gun DDs of the main line Russians.

Ofcoarse it does  

[Yosha_AtaIante]

Vor 25 Minuten, Culiacan_Mexico sagte:

Player Average for Ship classes [ at 2019/04/27 ] Two months

 

High Tier    DD 20.5% of ship played.  Average per team 2.4

Low Tier     DD 23% of ship played.  Average per team 2.7

 

These stats look quite healthy to me