CV Rework Discussion

[Sidian42]

11 hours ago, Panocek said:

And have you actually seen dispersion on rockets? Hitting with that shower isn't an issue. Landing substantial amount of rockets requires RNGesus approval in three copies, each signed by Uncle Stalin himself.

That was just an assumption. Those two DDs have a very low winrate at the moment. Since they are both either bigger than the other DDs and not as fast or well protected, i assumed that rockets might be a big factor with that. Especially since it's RNG and therefore easier to hit bigger targets than smaller targets. Could also be the HE bombs.

[HaachamaShipping]

27 minutes ago, Sidian42 said:

That was just an assumption. Those two DDs have a very low winrate at the moment. Since they are both either bigger than the other DDs and not as fast or well protected, i assumed that rockets might be a big factor with that. Especially since it's RNG and therefore easier to hit bigger targets than smaller targets. Could also be the HE bombs.

Not really related to the rockets though. Their WR was already low prior to 0.8.0. Of course rockets did not help their gameplay either, but that can be said about most DDs.

[El2aZeR]

Stumbled upon this gem browsing the Enterprise leaderboards btw.

 

"Potatoes are much more useful after rework" lol

[black_falcon120]

7 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

 

Nope. I had less than 2 full strikes and didn't want to sacrifice hitting power.

How has the E not been nerfed?

[Panocek]

23 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

How has the E not been nerfed?

Because she's premium

 

And with 0.8.2 WG "concluded" balancing prem carriers to push them on sale ASAP.

[Procrastes]

9 hours ago, black_falcon120 said:

Is that a slingshot drop?

 

8 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

Nope. I had less than 2 full strikes and didn't want to sacrifice hitting power.

 

On this topic (and pardon my ignorance): What, exactly, is a "slingshot drop"?

I have heard it spoken of, but never explained...

[lovelacebeer]

One issue I have is the lack of communication with my CV when I'm playing DD, maybe it's just my bad luck but the number of times I line up a torpedo strike on a enemy ship and then my CV for some inexplicable reason decides to spook my intended target wasting my strike, which at high tiers means I now have a long reload time where I'm largely ineffective. 

 

Now at least in the old days of RTS the CV player could usually easily see the torps from his top down view but now in its current state it must be harder for the CV to see my torps. 

 

I am aware there will always be deliberate griefears who would ruin a teammates strike but I can't believe that many CV players would deliberately hinder their own team so I assume it must be a communication issue.  

[Panocek]

6 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

 

 

On this topic (and pardon my ignorance): What, exactly, is a "slingshot drop"?

I have heard it spoken of, but never explained...

Camrade Yuro to the rescue

 

tl;dw use invulnerability and speed boost period after dropping payload to bypass as much AA as possible, works with dive bombers only, as rockets/torps have too long arming distance

[black_falcon120]

26 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Because she's premium

 

And with 0.8.2 WG "concluded" balancing prem carriers to push them on sale ASAP.

Hmm, I seriously thought WG had gotten over this.... 

6 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

 

 

On this topic (and pardon my ignorance): What, exactly, is a "slingshot drop"?

I have heard it spoken of, but never explained...

After each drop, there's an immunity period (approx 5 sec), during which you go really fast, to avoid any double dropping exploits.  A slingshot drop is when you drop bombs into the ocean approx 9km from your target, so that you use the invulnerability period to get close to the target w/o taking AA damage. 

[Panocek]

4 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

Hmm, I seriously thought WG had gotten over this.... 

When WG tried to get over this with GC as first boat, "community" exploded

 

Though concern for purposefully creating OP premiums and then nerfing them afterwards is valid.

[Procrastes]

Spoiler

19 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Camrade Yuro to the rescue

 

tl;dw use invulnerability and speed boost period after dropping payload to bypass as much AA as possible, works with dive bombers only, as rockets/torps have too long arming distance

 

I feel illuminated. And slightly nauseated.

Please tell me, that this is not post-rework CV:s working as intended? Surely Wargaming must be intending to fix this?

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I feel illuminated. And slightly nauseated.

Please tell me, that this is not post-rework CV:s working as intended? Surely Wargaming must be intending to fix this?

Nope, working as intended.

 

Then there is mentioned reply from someone on RU forums

Quote

Yes, there is such a mechanic, and it works as intended - when planes from a squadron are not controlled by a player, they are immune to damage - the planes returning to the aircraft carrier begins to receive damage again at the end of the animation of the falling bombs. Squadron - at the time of return of the camera but there are several factors to consider:

It’s not as easy to use this mechanics as it seems, it doesn’t increase the accuracy of the dumping - on the contrary, it takes practice, a good calculation to reset correctly, and the target has more time to react.

If you remove this mechanic - the planes that can not dodge will receive huge damage and most likely will not be able to enter the next attack, which obviously greatly reduces the efficiency of the aircraft carrier in combat.

The use of this “trick” requires the expenditure of x2 planes for each attack - that is, the damage from the squadron as a whole may be less than with a conventional attack, but yes, with less loss of aircraft.

And besides, for aircraft carriers, changes are already planned to reduce their impact on combat - for example, we will solve the problem with early destroyers detection (not sure about this term in english). So, we already know that the balance of classes will change. As you understand, dumping a bunch of changes at once is a bad practice, so for optimal results we try to make changes in order and carefully monitor the balance in the game. Well, obviously, we are watching the aircraft carriers especially carefully now.

 

[black_falcon120]

43 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

  Hide contents

 

I feel illuminated. And slightly nauseated.

Please tell me, that this is not post-rework CV:s working as intended? Surely Wargaming must be intending to fix this?

Does it make you feel better that it doesn't work on UK bombers?

[Procrastes]

39 minutes ago, black_falcon120 said:

Does it make you feel better that it doesn't work on UK bombers?

Not really, being a childhood fan of the RAF and all. Biggles for the win! 

 

But joking aside, the reply from the RU forums quoted by @Panocek in post no. 2687 above, sort of makes sense. You have to sacrifice quite a bit of DPM to slingshot in, or so it seems to me anyway.

 

I'm not saying this makes it all good, mind you. And I still find it weird that shooting planes down in the initial attack wave won't prevent any part of the strike from going through, since backup planes will magically teleport in and complete the drop. Or at least that is how Jingles described it in his "Fly Hard" video the other day; I haven't actually tried it out myself. If it really does work like that, it must be more than a little demoralizing for the AA crews.

 

Oh, well. The effort to balance the new carriers is still going on... I probably shouldn't grumble so much, at this early stage. Happiness comes to those who wait... right? 

[Panocek]

1 minute ago, Procrastes said:

Not really, being a childhood fan of the RAF.

 

But joking aside, the reply from the RU forums quoted by @Panocek in post no. 2687 above, sort of makes sense. You have to sacrifice quite a bit of DPM to slingshot in, or so it seems to me anyway.

I'm not saying this makes it all good, mind you. And I still find it weird that shooting planes down in the initial attack wave won't prevent any part of the strike from going through, since backup planes will magically teleport in and complete the drop. Or at least that is how Jingles described it in his "Fly Hard" video the other day; I haven't actually tried it out myself. If it really does work like that, it must be more than a little demoralizing for the AA crews.

Considering you usually do slingshot against hardest AA targets, you don't really expect planes to return anyway.

And "reserve" wing replacing attack wing casualties is principle of rework, so CV player can drop ordnance at least once...

 

Though reserve wing replacing someone shot down in attack wing causes crosshair jumping all over the place, so it can end with less than effective drop. Issue was in game since Test Servers, reported and well, still there

[Yukikaze_AL]

Vor 4 Minuten, Panocek sagte:

Though reserve wing replacing someone shot down in attack wing causes crosshair jumping all over the place, so it can end with less than effective drop. Issue was in game since Test Servers, reported and well, still there

That has to be on purpose for sure.

Making it difficult to aim after the initial attacking planes get killed would make sense to balance it out.

[LemonadeWarriorITA]

The low life praised themselves lucky to be allowed to contribute a little to the battle. Not too much ofc, because that is only for the elite. 

 

They entertained us very well. Those that survived may life. (Thumbs up)

So that they can satisfy the elite once more. 

EDIT: I was kinda puzzled when a pair of the low life had the balls to attack the supreme. It was kinda funny at first, but after taking a few scratches I decided to end both of them quickly with a couple of rockets. There they witnessed the fine art and incredible skills of an amazing carrier player.

 

[Panocek]

Literally unplayable, couldn't break 100k dmg. Buff shokek

Spoiler

 

[Maaseru]

5 hours ago, Procrastes said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I feel illuminated. And slightly nauseated.

Please tell me, that this is not post-rework CV:s working as intended? Surely Wargaming must be intending to fix this?

 

I don't get it. Why are ppl like you commenting on stuff like that? You have zero clue and still think you know what is balanced or has to be "fixed". Only potatoes talk about that kind of drop since it's in 99% of all cases not the most optimal way to play CV.

[little_rowboat]

Vor 21 Minuten, Maaseru sagte:

 

I don't get it. Why are ppl like you commenting on stuff like that? You have zero clue and still think you know what is balanced or has to be "fixed". Only potatoes talk about that kind of drop since it's in 99% of all cases not the most optimal way to play CV.

probably there has to be a reason for personal deficits that's not connected to oneself.. human habit of individuums not able to self reflect

[bloodynicknames]

fun and engaging ... 

just played a game in wooster vs. hakuryu

 

was at full health, never been hit so all AA emplacements still there. 

here come the DBs and in A SINGLE drop do 30k damage... with DFAA on ... so much fun

but wait, the next full DB squad is just coming over the horizon ... another 15k ... dfaa on CD ofc ... 

aaaaand here come the rocket planes ... dfaa ready again and wipe the squad thanks to nearby minotaur 

aaaaand here come the torp bombers ... thats another 7k 

 

and you now what the really fun part is ? you cant do jack crap about it, the CV is sitting far off behind an island all safe and sound laughing his [edited]off.

 

CVs are so fundamentally broken i cannot comprehend what kind of mind would put something like that in the game to begin with. 

guess that person slept in game design class when they were going over the concept of "its a bad thing to give one player a tool that makes another player utterly helpless". 

[Procrastes]

43 minutes ago, Maaseru said:

 

I don't get it. Why are ppl like you commenting on stuff like that? You have zero clue and still think you know what is balanced or has to be "fixed". Only potatoes talk about that kind of drop since it's in 99% of all cases not the most optimal way to play CV.

People like me post on this forum in order to discuss the game and broaden our knowledge.

From your above post, people like me might conclude that people like you post on this forum in order to make sweeping generalizations about people you know nothing about.

But that might be reading too much into it. Perhaps you are just having a bad day?

[bloodynicknames]

heres a fun battle recap from full AA wooster...nothing wrong here ...

 

[El2aZeR]

 

Kek.

[Prospect_b]

2 hours ago, bloodynicknames said:

was at full health, never been hit so all AA emplacements still there. 

here come the DBs and in A SINGLE drop do 30k damage... with DFAA on ... so much fun 

but wait, the next full DB squad is just coming over the horizon ... another 15k ... dfaa on CD ofc ... 

aaaaand here come the rocket planes ... dfaa ready again and wipe the squad thanks to nearby minotaur 

aaaaand here come the torp bombers ... thats another 7k 

maybe you can stop hugging islands, so the haku can't get off a perfect drop?

 

maybe you can play haku (or shoka or ryujo) for once, so you know that it is quite hard to get an AP DB drop off on a moving, nimble cruiser that is trying to dodge?

 

But no, let's all keep playing exacly the same as before the rework. Keep hugging islands and stay static in cruisers, Keep reversing bow on in bbs, keep rushing caps alone in DDs and get murdered by the red carrier if he has a brain, and come to the forum or reddit and start whining.

 

10/10