CV Rework Discussion

[Beaker71]

CVs + Standard battles + 1 DD . Just about the worst combination imaginable. The team thinks no reason to push, so sit in spawn point waiting for the opposition to push,  and they do the same. A few ships push on the flank and are wiped out.  I do zero damage for the first 10 mins whilst trying to push up as much as possible. And the inevitable happens, their CV wins the game, and the last ship alive for us in the CV. To be fair our CV player was good as well, but the last thing this game needs is an excuse not to push - so at least disable standard battles if there are CVs in the MM

 

 

[Tirande]

1 hour ago, DB2212 said:

Unlimited planes, the ability to magic up a fighter squadron from nowhere and the ability to instantly return planes to CV if there's too much damage happening.
Fubar 

You mean the limited planes a 'CV' can have on its deck and prepped in the hangar? The fighter squadron taking like 10 seconds to deploy and who then mill about and do nothing unless the enemy flies through them? (Though if you're playing CV and the enemy puts a fighter on something, they instantly lock on and molest your planes.) Oh and you mean the F key that instantly detonates your planes if you use it even if you're outside of AA range?

 

Let's see, current problems with the 'CV' 'reeeeeework':

1. Auto Pilot is still trash, it still randomly either beaches me, sends me in circles on the spot or doesn't kick in but it does power on the engine to full making the ship charge straight forward.

2. AA still stacks 100% in blobs.

3. AA stacks even if the ship is behind a mountain, they still add in their AA to an ally behind a mountain meaning Worcester/Mino can just fap behind a mountain while their DD caps and they still wipe out all planes.

4. Randomly flying near an isolated ship and your entire squadron evaporates to that ship in an instant from full hp to 0 in 0.5s flat.

5. Worcester Sauce AA.

6. Minotaur AA

7. RN CV ClusterFBombs dropping too slowly, making the T9 Firebrand DBs a superior pick to the T10 Wyverns on Audacious because for some reason they drop normally but the Wyverns do not.

8. Hakuryu is stuck in clown limbo because WG is scared of buffing her and invoking the wrath of the DD Clown World Gestapo.

9. Getting abused to hell and back every game for playing CV.

10. Getting report spammed for playing CV and not sniffing the farts of the anti-CV activists.

11. +2 MM is not suited for CVs due to a failure to correctly balance CVs for +2 MM; it's about as much fun as getting punched in the you know what.

 

Can we please stop worshipping Stalin's magical bovine excrement BB line and get around to fixing the CVs before we move on and forget about this distasteful disaster.

[Chips_uk]

1 hour ago, Tirande said:

 

5. Worcester Sauce AA.

6. Minotaur AA

7. RN CV ClusterFBombs dropping too slowly, making the T9 Firebrand DBs a superior pick to the T10 Wyverns on Audacious because for some reason they drop normally but the Wyverns do not.

 

11. +2 MM is not suited for CVs due to a failure to correctly balance CVs for +2 MM; it's about as much fun as getting punched in the you know what.

 

Can we please stop worshipping Stalin's magical bovine excrement BB line and get around to fixing the CVs before we move on and forget about this distasteful disaster.

 

Erm, wait, so... too strong AA? Too Weak? because if it's "too strong", what do you expect? No risk? Easy on all? Can't have "ooo don't go near them" like ships...kinda have? Should be a normal average damage on all ships?

 

As for the +2MM - same goes for any ship of any class. Get used to it. 

[ThePopesHolyFinger]

2 hours ago, Tirande said:

You mean the limited planes a 'CV' can have on its deck and prepped in the hangar? The fighter squadron taking like 10 seconds to deploy and who then mill about and do nothing unless the enemy flies through them? (Though if you're playing CV and the enemy puts a fighter on something, they instantly lock on and molest your planes.) Oh and you mean the F key that instantly detonates your planes if you use it even if you're outside of AA range?

 

Let's see, current problems with the 'CV' 'reeeeeework':

1. Auto Pilot is still trash, it still randomly either beaches me, sends me in circles on the spot or doesn't kick in but it does power on the engine to full making the ship charge straight forward.

2. AA still stacks 100% in blobs.

3. AA stacks even if the ship is behind a mountain, they still add in their AA to an ally behind a mountain meaning Worcester/Mino can just fap behind a mountain while their DD caps and they still wipe out all planes.

4. Randomly flying near an isolated ship and your entire squadron evaporates to that ship in an instant from full hp to 0 in 0.5s flat.

5. Worcester Sauce AA.

6. Minotaur AA

7. RN CV ClusterFBombs dropping too slowly, making the T9 Firebrand DBs a superior pick to the T10 Wyverns on Audacious because for some reason they drop normally but the Wyverns do not.

8. Hakuryu is stuck in clown limbo because WG is scared of buffing her and invoking the wrath of the DD Clown World Gestapo.

9. Getting abused to hell and back every game for playing CV.

10. Getting report spammed for playing CV and not sniffing the farts of the anti-CV activists.

11. +2 MM is not suited for CVs due to a failure to correctly balance CVs for +2 MM; it's about as much fun as getting punched in the you know what.

 

Can we please stop worshipping Stalin's magical bovine excrement BB line and get around to fixing the CVs before we move on and forget about this distasteful disaster.

 

That's a great pitiful whine from a CV player. Just don't expect sympathy from anyone other than fellow CV players.
I've no idea how BB's fare against CVs, but there's no fun in playing CAs or DDs as the game stands.

WG has still fubar'd the game to favour CVs, yet here we have a CV player whining about so much.

[Sprockett]

2 hours ago, Tirande said:

You mean the limited planes a 'CV' can have on its deck and prepped in the hangar? The fighter squadron taking like 10 seconds to deploy and who then mill about and do nothing unless the enemy flies through them? (Though if you're playing CV and the enemy puts a fighter on something, they instantly lock on and molest your planes.) Oh and you mean the F key that instantly detonates your planes if you use it even if you're outside of AA range?

 

Let's see, current problems with the 'CV' 'reeeeeework':

1. Auto Pilot is still trash, it still randomly either beaches me, sends me in circles on the spot or doesn't kick in but it does power on the engine to full making the ship charge straight forward.

2. AA still stacks 100% in blobs.

3. AA stacks even if the ship is behind a mountain, they still add in their AA to an ally behind a mountain meaning Worcester/Mino can just fap behind a mountain while their DD caps and they still wipe out all planes.

4. Randomly flying near an isolated ship and your entire squadron evaporates to that ship in an instant from full hp to 0 in 0.5s flat.

5. Worcester Sauce AA.

6. Minotaur AA

7. RN CV ClusterFBombs dropping too slowly, making the T9 Firebrand DBs a superior pick to the T10 Wyverns on Audacious because for some reason they drop normally but the Wyverns do not.

8. Hakuryu is stuck in clown limbo because WG is scared of buffing her and invoking the wrath of the DD Clown World Gestapo.

9. Getting abused to hell and back every game for playing CV.

10. Getting report spammed for playing CV and not sniffing the farts of the anti-CV activists.

11. +2 MM is not suited for CVs due to a failure to correctly balance CVs for +2 MM; it's about as much fun as getting punched in the you know what.

 

Can we please stop worshipping Stalin's magical bovine excrement BB line and get around to fixing the CVs before we move on and forget about this distasteful disaster.

wingeing away, hey why do you not go and play a proper, flight simulator, and leave us good sailors alone!

[Pikkozoikum]

4 hours ago, DB2212 said:

Unlimited planes, the ability to magic up a fighter squadron from nowhere and the ability to instantly return planes to CV if there's too much damage happening.
Fubar

About what are you talking? :D
The Fighters are approaching from higher altitudes and there is no ability to instantly return planes, they increase altitude and can get shot while the raise.

[KillSlim]

Been playing since CBT and I've uninstalled, WoWS is just not enjoyable for me any more. With games like Anno 1800 and Mordhau release(d) soon I don't see the point of spending time or money on a garbage fire. With no hints of any significant fixes I don't see the point of sticking around. CV rework has killed this game.

 

Cya captains 

[Yamato942]

CV OP? 5AM, no players to play so MM worked like 5vs5, well one of that 5 was I in Midway, what can i say you? See screenshots, i killed almost every ship of enemy 5. And im not even the best cv player on server( around 70th position on wows stats). I mean cmon, dont be blind, fix it so im not stucked with Midway every day. Its simple not fair to other class, i feeling bad after this, its so bad that i need to chose do i want to be sadist who will ruin fun for all or even worse be a victim of other sadist in cv.

[Torped1ne]

1 hour ago, Yamato942 said:

CV OP? 5AM, no players to play so MM worked like 5vs5, well one of that 5 was I in Midway, what can i say you? See screenshots, i killed almost every ship of enemy 5. And im not even the best cv player on server( around 70th position on wows stats). I mean cmon, dont be blind, fix it so im not stucked with Midway every day. Its simple not fair to other class, i feeling bad after this, its so bad that i need to chose do i want to be sadist who will ruin fun for all or even worse be a victim of other sadist in cv.

Keep on doing it they were not innocent they were the one's Who asked for rework so let them feel how the rework taste

[makhot]

1 hour ago, KillSlim said:

Been playing since CBT and I've uninstalled, WoWS is just not enjoyable for me any more. With games like Anno 1800 and Mordhau release(d) soon I don't see the point of spending time or money on a garbage fire. With no hints of any significant fixes I don't see the point of sticking around. CV rework has killed this game.

 

Cya captains 

Good call.

 

I still try to enjoy the game, but when at least 80% of the high tier matches have 1-2 CV's I keep getting  off more and more every day I play. I'm pretty sure that at this rate I will be uninstalling soon too.

[sgtmarple]

Vor 11 Stunden, DB2212 sagte:

Unlimited planes, the ability to magic up a fighter squadron from nowhere and the ability to instantly return planes to CV if there's too much damage happening.
Fubar

Absolutly right! I had enough of unlimited planes, shells, torpedos and AA guns that double in numbers when two Squadrons attack the same ship

[Asakka]

7 hours ago, Sprockett said:

wingeing away, hey why do you not go and play a proper, flight simulator, and leave us good sailors alone!

Flight simulator is not that fun as destroying people with CVs.

 

Repair consumable for CVs would be nice too, so i can overheal DDs 

[sgtmarple]

Am 2.5.2019 um 08:28, Procrastes sagte:

Not really. The worst part about being attacked by rocket planes is them spotting you for the rest of their team, not the rockets in and of themselves. Those, I can dodge. In many cases, I believe that a carrier could be more useful to his team if he concentrated on spotting rather than attacking. Fortunately - and very understandably - most CV players seem to find this boring as heck, so they don't do it. 

That doesen't help the CV much when a DD is closing in on him. Seriously, as bad as most IJN rockets are , at least they make a dent in DDs. Even thought the Torps are fast a DD shouldn't be hit by them , they are easily dodged especially in higher tiers with DDs higher speed. ^^ AP Bombs vs DDs...llol

[Stony_mayhem]

Here is my thoughts. Oh my. Where to start. .

This CV-Rework made the game awful.

 

1) The information the planes gives at the start is to powerful. All ships are close to instantly spotted at start so the concealment is most of the game useless which removes allot of the fun aspect of the game (close to impossible to sneak up om ships since your spotted all the time)

2) There is no really counter play towards CV. At higher tiers you have to choose eating 3-4 attacks from torpedo planes or try to steer and show broadside and get deleted by other ships that's just waiting for you to turn.

 

Solution.

1) Add dispersion on the drops. Why should attacks always be on point in a cv when the rest of the boats in the game suffers from that?

2) Remake the CV spotting for CV only, let only the CV see the ship for the first 10-15 sek. This will allow ships to at least try to dodge attacks and not have 5-7 ships shoot at you

3) Let the plane dmg go directly on the hp pool on the CV. The way it is now, there is no punishment for the CV. He can just hide behind an island in the back and start spamming. I guess the dmg punishment needs to be adjusted a bit. but still som kind of retaliation is needed to balance the spamming of the attacks

 

Ah well. Dunno why i'm even writing here. Guess its a "last cry" tho i'm having a hard time to enjoy the game.

Guess i spent about 1000 Euro on this game since i started. And im having myself a hard time to see that i will continue spend money. As it looks now i wont renew my premium when it runs out. If i didn't have a year of premium i would stop right now i guess.

 

Ps. i don't rly understand why! WG do this? i mean the game was really good before this re-work, and i have not talked to anyone that likes this rework. Why do they stick to their guns on this one? aren't they afraid of loosing players?

 

´'

[Procrastes]

As a destroyer man, I feel a lack of love.

 

I just played an Epicenter battle in my USS Black, with one CV per team. I also got a special order, in the ongoing 'Victory' event, to spot at least three ships - which would ordinarily have been a piece of cake.

 

The battle, if described from an emotional perspective, went something like this.

 

CV: "Oh, the little DD is trying to spot - how cute! But don't exert yourself, little fella - I'll take it from here. Scouting is far too important to be left to a mere destroyer."

Me: "..."

CV: "Oh, I see the little DD has launched torpedoes at that enemy Jean Bart! A nice spread, too - if they hit, they will probably sink her. We can't have that. So watch as I drop a few torpedoes of my own, ahead of yours... they won't sink the Jean Bart, or even do very much damage - but it will be my damage, and more importantly, it will make the Jean Bart turn, so that all your torpedoes will miss. Uppity DD:s need to learn their place - you just stay away from my game from now on, ya hear?"

Me: "..."

CV: "Oh look, the little DD is trying to cap! Atta boy - that is something I still can't do with my planes; an obvious oversight which I trust will be remedied soon - but in the meantime, I shall allow you to do this thing for me.

Me: "..."

CV: "Unless I feel that you don't deserve it, of course - in which case I will refrain from giving you fighter cover, and watch as the enemy carrier - my sole equal on this battlefield - chases you around with his rocket planes."

Me: "..."

CV: "What fun we are having!"

 

I played that battle to the finish, cruising around in the cap zones and trying my best to be useful.

It wasn't easy, being useful.

 

After twenty minutes or so, the match ended with me having spotted exactly one (1) ship, and consequently  having inflicted a completely inconsequential amount of spotting damage. The opportunities for non-suicidal direct damage were limited. Even if not intended, under such circumstances my special (and failed) order - to spot at least three ships - felt like insult added to injury. More to the point, it underlined the main message - namely that I, not being in a CV, had been made redundant. Being in a destroyer, and in spite of having enjoyed a free rein to drive around the map more or less as I pleased, I had not been able to contribute in a meaningful way to victory. The carrier player - who played an excellent game, by the way - had simply owned the match.

 

Let me be very clear, here: The experience I have just described, was very personal. It does not represent either the intentions of Wargaming with the CV rework, or the actions of the CV player on my team. As I said, he played an excellent game, and he acted very decent all the way through. The above-rendered conversation did not actually take place in the chat; it is just my way of trying to describe the way I felt right after having finished the battle. Yes, I am probably exaggerating. Yes, I was a bit frustrated. Yes, I will get over it, and I will play more games.

 

But still, one sad fact remains. For the first time, I have played a winning and objectively successful battle in a destroyer, without having fun doing it.

 

This is new.

[Mad_Dog_Dante]

19 minutes ago, Stony_mayhem said:

Solution.

1) Add dispersion on the drops. Why should attacks always be on point in a cv when the rest of the boats in the game suffers from that?

2) Remake the CV spotting for CV only, let only the CV see the ship for the first 10-15 sek. This will allow ships to at least try to dodge attacks and not have 5-7 ships shoot at you

3) Let the plane dmg go directly on the hp pool on the CV. The way it is now, there is no punishment for the CV. He can just hide behind an island in the back and start spamming. I guess the dmg punishment needs to be adjusted a bit. but still som kind of retaliation is needed to balance the spamming of the attacks

There is dispersion in the drops, for torps it gets really precise when you make your run long though. As a CV player I can be on board with a delay in team spotting by planes just as radar has right now. It takes time to radio the exact locations, sure why not. It won't make the CV's more team oriented but what the heck, nothing much is anymore in the game anyway. Passing damage or a part of it through to the carrier seems really weird and artificial, but I kinda like it as a concept. It will put CV's HP at risk when performing tasks. And it's not like WG hasn't put weird artifical solutions in the rework so far (4 fighters taking off a surface ship, fighters dropping from stratosphere, AA crew running from one side of the ship to another etc). So sure, why not. 

[Procrastes]

1 hour ago, sgtmarple said:

That doesen't help the CV much when a DD is closing in on him. Seriously, as bad as most IJN rockets are , at least they make a dent in DDs. Even thought the Torps are fast a DD shouldn't be hit by them , they are easily dodged especially in higher tiers with DDs higher speed. ^^ AP Bombs vs DDs...llol

In the rare occurrence where a destroyer actually manages to stalk an enemy carrier down and corner him away from back-up, I'd say that this ending with the carrier sunk, is the game working as intended. Giving carriers the ability to fight a destroyer on equal terms even at close quarters, would complete this game's transformation into World of Carriers. It is quite enough as it is, with carriers having access to unlimited plane reserves and being magically immune to fires.

[Tirande]

2 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

In the rare occurrence where a destroyer actually manages to stalk an enemy carrier down and corner him away from back-up, I'd say that this ending with the carrier sunk, is the game working as intended. Giving carriers the ability to fight a destroyer on equal terms even at close quarters, would complete this game's transformation into World of Carriers. It is quite enough as it is, with carriers having access to unlimited plane reserves and being magically immune to fires.

Ah salty DD Gestapo tears, would you like to have all secondaries removed from BBs and CVs while you're at it so you can be the masterrace again? Why don't we also remove the Radar, Hydro and give all DDs 0.1m detectable torps? Sod off with your fake news narrative about CVs being OP due to unlimited reserves, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

[Sprockett]

4 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

In the rare occurrence where a destroyer actually manages to stalk an enemy carrier down and corner him away from back-up, I'd say that this ending with the carrier sunk, is the game working as intended. Giving carriers the ability to fight a destroyer on equal terms even at close quarters, would complete this game's transformation into World of Carriers. It is quite enough as it is, with carriers having access to unlimited plane reserves and being magically immune to fires.

and even if you manage to sink the CV hull they can still get a squadron of planes into the air and sink you and other ships for upto 3 minutes after you have sunk there ships! WTF wargaming... 

 

[Akula971]

I bought my way into CBT with the Yubari, Sims, and Gremy pack. I've bought a lot of premium ships, bought premium time too. In short, probably spent too much on a free to play game. It was fun though. I played mainly mid tiers to avoid the instant deletion of cross dropping by very experienced High tier CVs.

 

Now my fun is gone. As a DD I'm searched for, perma spotted, made impotent. I'm attacked relentlessly as an easy kill having the lowest HP pool, with the least defensive capability. The final straw for me was being reduced to less than 50% HP within a minute of the game start by one CV, to be finished off by the other CV a minute or two later. My Kagero stood no chance, even close to the "blob" I've tried to adapt, stay close to the blob, go where I'm not expected, but with plane speeds being what they are, they will find you, as the being detected indication that the planes get over an empty area of sea, tells them, there is a DD in that circle. If you stay undetected by planes and launch an attack, the target can indicate where you are. Found, attacked and sunk.

 

This is the exact same situation that U-boats found themselves in late war. If you are spotted by aircraft, you will be sunk by depth charges or have units vectored to your location, radar'ed, sonar'ed and sunk. The solution was the Electro-boat that could stay submerged and remain undetected, and if detected from an attack, exit the area at high speed. Yes U-boats could get lucky, and escape by using features to aid in not being detected such as thermal layers or moving to shallow waters with lots of noise. In this the game has created a situation that can only be fixed by the removal or severe limitation of planes, in terms of range, speed, or endurance.

 

As wargaming seem to lack the foresight to see the historic parallels or the effects of endless planes, with infinite range and endurance(fuel not damage), then I have uninstalled this game. They do not deserve either my time and especially not my money. If they can resolve this mess, then I may return. I'm sure in the meantime they will wheel out their Youtube shills to explain that we are all wrong, and that lies are truth, and truth is lies.

 

Good going Wargaming, you fooked up WoT by 0.86, and WoWs by 0.8, getting better!

[El2aZeR]

Just now, Procrastes said:

Giving carriers the ability to fight a destroyer on equal terms even at close quarters, would complete this game's transformation into World of Carriers.

 

They already do tho.

In fact getting close to the CV actually gives the CV the advantage at distances above ~7km as it allows them to bring a ton of DPM to bare.

[Asakka]

DDs sneaking on my CV are easy to kill. Because i dont have to hunt them on the whole map, they come to me willingly and die for it 

 

I dont think any DD actually killed me without me killing him first and then dying to his torps or something

[Asakka]

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

They already do tho.

In fact getting close to the CV actually gives the CV the advantage at distances above ~7km as it allows them to bring a ton of DPM to bare.

Yeah exactly that 

[HaachamaShipping]

13 minutes ago, Procrastes said:

In the rare occurrence where a destroyer actually manages to stalk an enemy carrier down and corner him away from back-up, I'd say that this ending with the carrier sunk, is the game working as intended. Giving carriers the ability to fight a destroyer on equal terms even at close quarters, would complete this game's transformation into World of Carriers. It is quite enough as it is, with carriers having access to unlimited plane reserves and being magically immune to fires.

May I introduce you to Graf Zeppelin? With more gun range than your typical Kagero. Clad in at least 21 mm of "F*** you DD" armour everywhere. Sadly it lost the hydro and ships like Enterprise are faster at killing DDs with rockets.

 

But I agree, the current iteration of CVs is pretty harsh on DDs. I'd argue that CV-BB interaction kind of is ok, CV-cruiser is questionable, CV-DD is just a disaster. Any of these however is immensely frustrating for the victim, as even if I call CV vs BB okish in terms of outcome, the way it plays out, the BB will fnd it the most unfun time in their life. Like, as a cruiser vs a BB, I know I might lose, but I typically can shoot back and do some damage, I can dodge and mitigate damage. As a BB vs CV, you just take damage and repair it. Maybe you get some satisfaction out of shooting down the odd plane and knowing the CV used his time on striking you instead of ships where it might hurt more (after all, his time, just like the effective number of planes is not unrestricted), but most often you just feel bummed. CV vs cruisers and DDs mostly comes down to how fun it is for classes without any means to regain hp to get murdered by anything. If a CV can just take out a large chunk of your cruiser with rockets, that's kinda silly. Dive bombs are even worse.

2 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

They already do tho.

In fact getting close to the CV actually gives the CV the advantage at distances above ~7km as it allows them to bring a ton of DPM to bare.

Ya know, I saw "King Cobra" himself delete some CV with 20 km DWT. Maybe Asashio was the solution.

[Yosha_AtaIante]

PROVIDE ANTI AIRCRAFT FIRE SUPPORT ! SUPPORT PROVIDE AA FIRE SUPPORT PROVIDE AA FIRE SUPPORT fml