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AI changes in coop?

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Looks like WG is testing new AI or has some issues with it. It appeared in the middle of the week. Was gone on Saturday, reappeared a few hours ago and after a short time servers went down :). I think I like that new AI although it made impossible my favourite playstyle in coops - take DD, get close to suiciding BB and nuke him. But thats not such an issue for me. You just have to adjust your DD tactics and focus on spotting enemies for the team, taking caps and shooting from stealth spread torps in general direction of enemy if some of their ships are in range. It is harder to get huge damage as DD, but you can still have a lot of fun. The change is surely great for BB's cause bots stay alive longer so BB's have much more time for shooting. 

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[WJDE]
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1 hour ago, Caladan12 said:

Some final thoughts on new AI - it feels much better BUT :cap_horn::

bots dodge shots like torps now - it is taking longer to finish a match, i ve witnesses DD/CL/CA bots micro-adjust to fit between shells at ~5-7km a few times already;

Pretty much like a normal person with a self preservation instinct.

1 hour ago, Caladan12 said:

bots waiting for that 2nd fire to damage control - that includes 2nd DB squad as they will never dcon until 2nd DB is done - makes match last longer;

Which is better than at least half of the playerbase

1 hour ago, Caladan12 said:

 

new capping DD script and great smokes - makes match last much longer;

Pretty much like a normal person would. Also: well, a few months ago I asked for pretty much all those changes, Conway-senpai noticed that post and now  I can't say that wargaming doesn't listen to the playerbase. What have I done... :Smile_teethhappy:

1 hour ago, Caladan12 said:

Regardless to which camp one belongs, same issue remains - matches take twice or three times as long, with XP/cash rewards remaining the same

If you are trying to pigeonhole coop people into randoms in this way - the result will be a lot of unhappy people who will not necessarily switch to a mode they chose, for various reasons, to ignore

I can see myself sticking to coop regardless of rewards but i am not in any hurry as opposed to many many people playing this mode:Smile_popcorn:

I've been saying this for a while now that coop rewards are out of line, even considering "standard" bots, matches that took 15+ minutes were quite common, so the supposed coop xp/credits per hour advantage just wasn't there, and now with bots better than majority of the playerbase this issue will get even worse. So, uh, if I had some success at getting a message across then there's a quite reasonable chance that wargaming is actually changing it's attitude towards coop and will rebalance earnings once they got all the data they need...? Right? Right? @MrConway senpai? :fish_cute_2:

Even if it's not the case I'm not going to abandon my <3 waifubots <3 no matter how low the earnings get.

14 minutes ago, Dead_Skin_Mask said:

Looks like WG is testing new AI or has some issues with it. It appeared in the middle of the week. Was gone on Saturday, reappeared a few hours ago and after a short time servers went down :).

Waifubots are taking over the server, ai rebellion has begun! Can I side with them? :cap_hmm: I want to side with them. All the ai waifus for me! Ha!

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There are some very good changes and some bad ones to the ship roles, if it all sticks:

 

Good:  DDs can actually finally do what they were meant to do - spot, smoke, cap and stealthtorp - none of it was possible with fixated bots barreling towards nearest unspotted DD ignoring everything else - (which led to a few hilarious bot trains chasing a dd being citadelled to pieces by the remainder of the human team) resulting in DD players just yoloing and loading port/nextship;

CLs can do their "this island is mine" thing and CAs can actually use AP for once more or less consistently which leads to the next point - ;

British cruisers can play coop and enjoy some AP action instead of praying for the charging bots to change direction from "nose on" in 99% cases leading to Shatterbounce city;

 

Bad: BBs have to use HE on fleeing BBs to do any meaningful damage - slow BBs gameplay will be hell;

German BBs are not fun anymore with bots keeping distance/using cover AND torps very effectively - any BB gameplay took a hit with massively reduced accuracy because of superdodging and no longer yoloing bot cruisers spamming accurate torps (same with DDs) as they keep distance - bot DDs love to stealth torp right now;

CVs will have to work hard with bot unicum dodging and DFAA being used spot on even as cover for allied bots - that is with inactive bot fighters even :D - i have noticed a massive increase in planes losses so ~t6 is no fun for cv - t8+ is fine there are plenty of planes there...;

Not too active players unaware of changes doing their old thing being sunk quickly by vicious bots sitting afterwards going :cap_wander::cap_wander_2:

 

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2 minutes ago, Caladan12 said:

There are some very good changes and some bad ones to the ship roles, if it all sticks:

 

Good:  DDs can actually finally do what they were meant to do - spot, smoke, cap and stealthtorp - none of it was possible with fixated bots barreling towards nearest unspotted DD ignoring everything else - (which led to a few hilarious bot trains chasing a dd being citadelled to pieces by the remainder of the human team) resulting in DD players just yoloing and loading port/nextship;

CLs can do their "this island is mine" thing and CAs can actually use AP for once more or less consistently which leads to the next point - ;

British cruisers can play coop and enjoy some AP action instead of praying for the charging bots to change direction from "nose on" in 99% cases leading to Shatterbounce city;

 

Bad: BBs have to use HE on fleeing BBs to do any meaningful damage - slow BBs gameplay will be hell;

German BBs are not fun anymore with bots keeping distance/using cover AND torps very effectively - any BB gameplay took a hit with massively reduced accuracy because of superdodging and no longer yoloing bot cruisers spamming accurate torps (same with DDs) as they keep distance - bot Ds love to stealth torp right now;

CVs will have to work hard with bot unicum dodging and DFAA being used spot on even as cover for allied bots - that is with inactive bot fighters even :D - i have noticed a massive increase in planes losses so ~t6 is no fun for cv - t8+ is fine there are plenty of planes there...

 

This mirrors my observations as well; I'm a cruiser main that dabbles with destroyers every now and then, I must say that it is much more enjoyable to play Cruisers, especially British (Fiji FTW!) Cruisers. Destroyers are more fun now that not every bot starts to lemming train after you if you are the only human DD in play.

 

I've even seen bot DDs smoke up and fire from within the smoke instead of popping smoke at full speed and outrun their own smoke.

 

I can't say anything about how it is to play in a BB but I have been in a couple of COOP matches with six or seven BBs which turned into slugfests of epic proportions with BBs duking it out left to right but I guess that it can be a case of YMMW?

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[WJDE]
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Oh, and can we disregard opinions of NA server? I mean...

https://forum.worldofwarships.com/topic/168940-new-garbage-ai/

Yeah, sure, if the game is still on bot bbs (and other classes as well) should re-engage after breaking contact/repositioning/healing not just mindlessly running away, if it's a lost cause however and bot bb/whatever is caught in open water then running away is a pretty valid option. I would do (and did) the same, hope that I can sink boats that are spotting me then relocate/cap.

 

Other than that though GIT GUD 'MURICANS!

 

One more thing that I noticed: bots switch flanks. Quite surprising sometimes.

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Bwahahahaha... that thread, comedy gold. :cap_popcorn:

I mean, I'm a crap player honestly and even I can manage pretty well against these bots (When I don't derp and get blapped out of the water).

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44 minutes ago, Caladan12 said:

any BB gameplay took a hit with massively reduced accuracy because of superdodging and no longer yoloing bot cruisers

 

Hmmm, somehow all my battles in BB's with the new AI were brilliant. Best I every had in coop in Iowa, and one of the best in Yamato. And so far I have played only this 2 battles in BB's against new AI. In both I have dealt lot of damage and almost every salvo was sent into beautifully exposed side of enemy ship. Probably it worked for meso nice as I've kept rather far from other ships of my team and pushed aggresively on the flank so in the end bots running from my team's DDs and CCs were showing me sides. 

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Another thing - as people are not too keen to chase kiting bots to J10/A1/you name it corner, the matches very often end up by points/base capture - which means even less XP/cash because reward system rewards damage primarily - its fine that you have outspotted/outtanked/outcapped the bots and won - here is half your usual XP after triple the time spent cause you did half the usual damage

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[-IAN-]
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Having played a few more games it seems like the new Bot Logic isn't being used in every match. I've played game where the "old" bots are still being used as well as other games with the "new" logic and the chance between which type you face feels to be random.

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3 hours ago, IanH755 said:

Having played a few more games it seems like the new Bot Logic isn't being used in every match. I've played game where the "old" bots are still being used as well as other games with the "new" logic and the chance between which type you face feels to be random.

Yes. Noticed that too.  Maybe WG are collecting stats to compare the old & new logic.

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[JRM]
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Maybee scripts are updated for some maps and tiers but not for others, I also noticed some really "hard matches" yesterday 

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CV-gameplay has also changed - when the new mechanics are used: 

Bots use AA-Consumable immediately.

Bot-CV just parks and don't uses its fighters.

Bot-BBs "forget" to repair floodings :D

 

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