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Hades_warrior

Hindenburg armor nerfed?

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8 minutes ago, a_p_u_l_e_i_u_s said:

finally wg admit  how lame it is last armor hindenburg version and fix with +1 hill

 

 

hmm...

If you believe +1 heal will fix anything you're naive.

Hindy isn't taking continuous damage that can be healed, like fire or floods, it eats citadels that can only be restored up to 33%. And if a Republique gets a lucky 25km salvo against you, you won't be healing anything because you'll be sunk.

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Except they didn't ?

They just thought it lacked popularity lately and probably get a somewhat low survivability rate.

So they buff it.

 

The armor itself never changed.

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3 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

They just thought it lacked popularity lately and probably get a somewhat low survivability rate.

So they buff it.

 

Except that for most ppl that +1 heal probably doesnt do any good. Unless you play without Premium consumables and without SI. Then it might actually help you :cap_tea:

 

If you compare hindenburg stats between servers, its clear why it performs so badly on EU: most germans play it (because german), and since there are so many, you get more ppl who are playing it badly^^

Hindenburg doesnt have other stuff going for it except damage dealing to influence the game. DM/Salem/Worc/Moskva got Radar. Zao has good stealth + buffed torps lately (awesome longrange HE spammer), HIV was the same, except it got MRBR and not good stealth (so its close to Hindi, but got a buff lately). And i feel Zao and Henri have much better chance to avoid citadels longrange than Hindi (troll armor or speed).

Minotaur has smoke or Radar and awesome torps, deadly vs DDs and vs CVs, which are 2 strong classes to influence the game.

Hindi is slow, is a bad HE spammer (low alpha), doesnt have really good AP (compared to others), and got stuff in return which is mostly good the closer you get to an enemy. Current meta, everyone stays at maxrange, so its not very usefull to have those attributes. The less Cruisers there are, the worse Hindi probably performs. So a buff giving it more heal vs fire is even more questionable.

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

The less Cruisers there are, the worse Hindi probably performs. So a buff giving it more heal vs fire is even more questionable.

I'd actually question that. Against most BB, Hindenburg is quite solid, against Yamato, you get overmatched, but Yamato hasn't got fast reload or shells and few shells and it has 50 mm deck that keeps you relevant. Republique is your archnemesis, but if it isn't present, I'd argue, other cruisers are often a bigger issue than some BB.

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I played Hinden twice today, those were my first matches since last tier10 CB. 

Well, we lost both. But I really can't say it was my fault considering the damage I dealt. Hindenburg still feel absurdly tanky and I survived moves that would have killed me two times easily with Zao or Henri.

It's still fantastic at close range, the 12 guns packs a punch with both ammunition (10k salvoes on broadside BBs with AP easily) and the ship itself is still good as kiting and harassing the enemy team as a whole.

 

I don't really understand why they feel the need to buff it.

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1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

I'd actually question that. Against most BB, Hindenburg is quite solid, against Yamato, you get overmatched, but Yamato hasn't got fast reload or shells and few shells and it has 50 mm deck that keeps you relevant. Republique is your archnemesis, but if it isn't present, I'd argue, other cruisers are often a bigger issue than some BB.

 

But the AP is mostly bad against BBs, while it can citadel Cruisers reliably at almost maxrange (probably RU cruisers not).

Hindi is imo a Cruiser killer, or German Cruiser in general. Devastating AP which will kill Cruisers giving broadside. If you rush a BB, you couldnt kill it without torps. You simply cant citadel them. I think you have the best bet vs Yamato (i tried it and got citadels in its cheek at 1,2km) but yamato is a BB you DONT want to rush.  (btw i think yamato has 57mm in the center deck).

 

Moskva you have DPM advantage either with HE or AP.

Zao is so-so but it has very little HP so when it gives broadsides it usually dies first. Or if it kites away - let it.

DM is the biggest problem imo. Bow on usually and high HE DPM. You can ambush it with torps, otherwise i stay away from it.

Worcester dies pretty fast when you get its broadside. If it kites away - again let it be.

I think Stalingrad is also no worthy adversary because low reload, just keep properly angled.

Minotaur... lol

Henri not too sure about that anymore because MBRB.

 

BBs you can only engage when there arent too many left around - otherwise you will get blapped by one from across the map.

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5 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

I played Hinden twice today, those were my first matches since last tier10 CB. 

Well, we lost both. But I really can't say it was my fault considering the damage I dealt. Hindenburg still feel absurdly tanky and I survived moves that would have killed me two times easily with Zao or Henri.

It's still fantastic at close range, the 12 guns packs a punch with both ammunition (10k salvoes on broadside BBs with AP easily) and the ship itself is still good as kiting and harassing the enemy team as a whole.

 

I don't really understand why they feel the need to buff it.

 

So what can you do despite dealing damage?

What does a 10k salvo do to a BB in the end? Nothing really.

Tanking doesnt win games. And neither does dealing 100k damage. Also 50mm HE pen basicly does nothing against DDs (unless its a Khaba), then you have again lowest HE alpha DPM of all Cruisers.

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

 

But the AP is mostly bad against BBs, while it can citadel Cruisers reliably at almost maxrange (probably RU cruisers not).

Hindi is imo a Cruiser killer, or German Cruiser in general. Devastating AP which will kill Cruisers giving broadside. If you rush a BB, you couldnt kill it without torps. You simply cant citadel them. I think you have the best bet vs Yamato (i tried it and got citadels in its cheek at 1,2km) but yamato is a BB you DONT want to rush.  (btw i think yamato has 57mm in the center deck).

 

Moskva you have DPM advantage either with HE or AP.

Zao is so-so but it has very little HP so when it gives broadsides it usually dies first. Or if it kites away - let it.

DM is the biggest problem imo. Bow on usually and high HE DPM. You can ambush it with torps, otherwise i stay away from it.

Worcester dies pretty fast when you get its broadside. If it kites away - again let it be.

I think Stalingrad is also no worthy adversary because low reload, just keep properly angled.

Minotaur... lol

Henri not too sure about that anymore because MBRB.

 

BBs you can only engage when there arent too many left around - otherwise you will get blapped by one from across the map.

You can citpen broadside cruisers. As soon as they angle, you cannot, because either you ricochet or the armour is thick due to angling. And no, Russians are fine. Moskva is easy to citadel.

 

Vs BB meanwhile, yes, you cannot citadel it, but who cares? Against a Montana, if it gives broadside, your AP still deals 15-20k in damage, if you can torp it, it's dead and if you have an angled standoff, the HE dpm is still enough to burn the BB down. The only BB opponents that you really should not brawl 1v1, imo, are Republique, any actually smart Conqueror (because they can kite you with HE) and Yamato, if you cannot manage to outrun its guns.

 

And yes, Yamato has 57 mm centre deck, but 50 mm in front of that, 32 mm at the extremities. Hindenburg can shoot at vastly more deck area compared to any other cruiser limited to 32 mm only.

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Well then say the same things to Zao and Henri. xD

What Hinden can do is pushing caps. Which I did. And removing a tenth of a BB HP every ten seconds is anything but irrelevant.

Add nine torp hit to the first match btw.

 

We lost both matches because in the first one our DD were idiot suiciders and in the second my team decided to be overly aggressive and throw our advantage...

 

 Hinden is totally fine, though I also think it's not a very interesting ship. I only play it in CB usually as it is a "safe bet" with good versatility on all CBs maps.

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10 hours ago, Riselotte said:

You can citpen broadside cruisers. As soon as they angle, you cannot, because either you ricochet or the armour is thick due to angling. And no, Russians are fine. Moskva is easy to citadel.

 

Vs BB meanwhile, yes, you cannot citadel it, but who cares? Against a Montana, if it gives broadside, your AP still deals 15-20k in damage, if you can torp it, it's dead and if you have an angled standoff, the HE dpm is still enough to burn the BB down. The only BB opponents that you really should not brawl 1v1, imo, are Republique, any actually smart Conqueror (because they can kite you with HE) and Yamato, if you cannot manage to outrun its guns.

 

And yes, Yamato has 57 mm centre deck, but 50 mm in front of that, 32 mm at the extremities. Hindenburg can shoot at vastly more deck area compared to any other cruiser limited to 32 mm only.

 

Not sure if you understand me, i meant from hindi pov, so a hindi will beat a moskva always. I would pick a fight against Moskva any day.

 

But its not common to do that. You know that, i know that. To deal 20k damage you need 10 penetrations! No BB will let you farm him. Either they turn in, or most likely turn away. And this includes that therent many enemies around so you actually can play aggressive to get into ranges where you can hit the right places. Early game you pretty much shoot against bow on BBs. Im even hesitent to flank lately, because i have had so many 4 DD games, that its risky to do that, when your own DD doesnt scout. You might accidently run into a flanking DD and then you are in trouble by being permaspotted.

But saying BBs take 15-20k damage per salvo is... i mean, you had 110k avg damge, mine is overall also in that area. If it would be common, we should have like 200k or more avg damage :Smile_trollface:

 

Sure, you can pen more places on Yamato, but there are also the big turrets to hit where its 50mm. Killing a BB with HE is also... questionable. Takes too long. And when you get full anti fire BBs (ive had several yamas/montys) where i got 1 fire in 100 hits. Totaly not worth it.

 

10 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

Well then say the same things to Zao and Henri. xD

What Hinden can do is pushing caps. Which I did. And removing a tenth of a BB HP every ten seconds is anything but irrelevant.

Add nine torp hit to the first match btw.

 

We lost both matches because in the first one our DD were idiot suiciders and in the second my team decided to be overly aggressive and throw our advantage...

 

 Hinden is totally fine, though I also think it's not a very interesting ship. I only play it in CB usually as it is a "safe bet" with good versatility on all CBs maps. 

 

I kinda did, didnt I? Henri is very similiar to Hindi, the longer it lives, the more influence it has. The problem is, Henri got Buffed with MBRB, and it has longer range torps (not that they are really good, but they are a threat to consider).

Zao on the other hand is much more versatile because of its better concealment. And the ability to stealthtorp. And better HE alpha, so its stronger vs DDs.

So you did ~220k damage in 2 games while hitting 9 torps in one? Doesnt make the guns look too good you know? :Smile-_tongue:

 

As for CBs: Well, seeing how noone played Hindi in KotS, i think its safe to say that it has lost its place. Also doesnt change my oppinion that Hindi can only influence the game by dealing damage, and WG probably doesnt understand that. Its normal that it MUST deal more damage.

If i check avg damage on maplesyrup, Hindi is 5k behing Zao and 10k behind Henri... Not fine imo.

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4 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Sure, you can pen more places on Yamato, but there are also the big turrets to hit where its 50mm. Killing a BB with HE is also... questionable. Takes too long. And when you get full anti fire BBs (ive had several yamas/montys) where i got 1 fire in 100 hits. Totaly not worth it.

Sure, it takes a long time, but some Montana cannot brutalise you if you are angled and even with crap HE, you can burn the Montana to the ground 1v1 eventually. Against other cruisers, Zao will hurt a lot with heavy HE salvos, DM, Worcester, Henri with MBRB all don't care about your armour when they unload their spectacular dpm. So, I find it easier to kill a BB than to kill other cruisers at T10. 

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13 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Sure, it takes a long time, but some Montana cannot brutalise you if you are angled and even with crap HE, you can burn the Montana to the ground 1v1 eventually. Against other cruisers, Zao will hurt a lot with heavy HE salvos, DM, Worcester, Henri with MBRB all don't care about your armour when they unload their spectacular dpm. So, I find it easier to kill a BB than to kill other cruisers at T10. 

 

 

tell me after how long can you burn Montana in 1vs1 close ???  5 min ?? in that time you think that none of other BBs that you are in crossfire will shoot on easy 20-35k salvo ??   

 

Any good Republique player will have a big smile on any Hindi that is spotted and in range - the best at the start of game, you know that I'am at 24km so I'am secure, I'am just afraid what will be when that Bourgogne came with 12 380mm 830m/s shell - poor Hindi will be oneshooted  in like first 2-3 min :(

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1 minute ago, VooDooZG_Nervozni_Purger said:

 

 

tell me after how long can you burn Montana in 1vs1 close ???  5 min ?? in that time you think that none of other BBs that you are in crossfire will shoot on easy 20-35k salvo ??   

 

Any good Republique player will have a big smile on any Hindi that is spotted and in range - the best at the start of game, you know that I'am at 24km so I'am secure, I'am just afraid what will be when that Bourgogne came with 12 380mm 830m/s shell - poor Hindi will be oneshooted  in like first 2-3 min :(

It's called situational awareness about where you can get shot from and from where you can't. Additional enemies are always an issue, as is the fact that lulzily, it can take even a Worcester 5 minutes to kill a BB, if that BB is something like a Yamato, with 50-57 mm deck for most of the deck area (though, I had games getting farmed by a Worcester for like 100k damage and still didn't die). But it's nevertheless worth considering that a BB that cannot overmatch your centre section is basically much less able to fight back by itself than a T10 cruiser. Go up against a Worcester or Des Moines, if that thing has a working brain, it doesn't even need a Republique buddy to kill you. It can do so by itself, unless you surprise it around a corner, able to pump it full with torps point-blank (which would also work against any BB).

 

And guess what, all those BBs can as easily just crap on you in the crossfire if you take your time farming that Moskva, which after all has still over 60k hp and only takes 30 sec fires. That's an issue with being in crossfires though, not with being in a Hindenburg.

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4 hours ago, Riselotte said:

It's called situational awareness about where you can get shot from and from where you can't. Additional enemies are always an issue, as is the fact that lulzily, it can take even a Worcester 5 minutes to kill a BB, if that BB is something like a Yamato, with 50-57 mm deck for most of the deck area (though, I had games getting farmed by a Worcester for like 100k damage and still didn't die). But it's nevertheless worth considering that a BB that cannot overmatch your centre section is basically much less able to fight back by itself than a T10 cruiser. Go up against a Worcester or Des Moines, if that thing has a working brain, it doesn't even need a Republique buddy to kill you. It can do so by itself, unless you surprise it around a corner, able to pump it full with torps point-blank (which would also work against any BB).

 

And guess what, all those BBs can as easily just crap on you in the crossfire if you take your time farming that Moskva, which after all has still over 60k hp and only takes 30 sec fires. That's an issue with being in crossfires though, not with being in a Hindenburg.

 

well when you are in the game with 5 BBs every game than you will always be in crossfire if you are even semi decent player because 6 of your teammates will be at the edge of border doing nothing on your team losing by 400 points and 2-3 cap -- it all day every day for last half year like that and it will be only worse...

 

So all that gameplay that was intended for Hindi and where Hindi was good was killed long ago, but it is not only Hindi killed it is whole game - there is no more good quality in this game where hindi could prove his role of multi purpose tanky cruiser, WG is killing all skill needed ship in this game and encourage brainless sailing and shooting from 26km or bringing no aim just use HE on anywhere lines .....

 

Game was perfectly balanced when there was only IJN, USN and KM lines in game after that talking about balance in this game i insult to brain  

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