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Pan European tree (premiums)

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We've heard that we're going to get a Pan-European tree. But what ships are we going to expect? Most likely there will be plenty DDs in it (the nations with small fleets generally had the small ships and not the big ones). It seems that for now we should expect Polish, Duth and Austro-Hungarian ships - but WG tends to be tight-lipped about these things. Assuming we're getting a single ship of each of these (and assuming that we really do get a new Polish ship for a total of two) - what do you guys think these will be?

 

I admit I have no knowledge of Dutch and Austro-Hungarian navies of the period, but I could probably make a guess about what second Polish ship might make an appearance. The most likely candidate seems to be the British-built N-class Destroyer (originally meant to be British but acquired by Polish Navy before completion). She doesn't really have all that overwhelming achievements but for truly amazing naval stories in Polish Navy you'd need to check on our submarines - and these are, of course, out of question. ORP Piorun at the very least had a sorta-kinda-notable appearance in an operation as notable as the sinking of Bismarck - Piorun was operating together with the British DDs in the search for Bismarck and was the first one to make contact and exchange fire (after an hour of neither side hitting anything, Bismarck ALMOST scored a hit, missing only by less than 20 meters - Piorun decided that enough is enough and retreated, not willing to check if another hour might actually lead to some hits :Smile_teethhappy: ).

 

The ship - if it were to indeed enter WoWs - would most likely fit on t8, considering that she resembles in many aspects (including name, "Piorun" translates to "Lightning Bolt") the already present (well, WiP but still)  HMS Lightning. She's faster (although Lightning in WoWs actually received the same speed - 36 knots). She also has 6 120mm guns but her shells are lighter, muzzle velocity a bit higher and rate of fire better (although, again, Lightning seems to be buffed compared to real world to reach Piorun's rate of fire) - all that sounds like a pretty specialized knifefighter. Piorun is also practically the same size (so might have similarly amazing concealment) but suffers from having less torps (1*5) and less AA. Balancing of these factors on t8 would most likely be based around consumables. Although the deeper we get into in-game specifics, the deeper we are in pure speculation, of course :Smile-_tongue:

 

Now, what about the other two mentioned navies, however (or maybe someone has better/more likely Polish premium candidates)? What famous Dutch and Austro-Hungarian ships seem to fit the spot (or maybe someone has some leaks that I managed to miss)? What would they likely be like in the game?

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For Greek navy we can expect to see Fletcher class Velos and a small tier bb Averof. Those two are museum ships so they will possibly get in the game in near future

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33 minutes ago, Alelos said:

For Greek navy we can expect to see Fletcher class Velos and a small tier bb Averof. Those two are museum ships so they will possibly get in the game in near future

Even more Fletchers? :Smile_teethhappy:

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Polish have the Blys (not going to even try to type it and butcher your language!) and Piorun could be a silver ship quite possibly, there's already an N class in the game as Gadjah so it could be copy/pasted, it was also a Dutch ship originally of course :Smile_teethhappy:

 

A clan mate has put this together for the Dutch as he's, well, Dutch! 

I assume the Austro-Hungarians will all be lower tier and have some BB's since that Empire ceased to exist at the end of WW1 pretty much.

 

A relevant matter is that a lot of Naval staff evacuated to the UK after the fall of their countries and crewed Royal Naval vessels so they won't be represented under their own flags. 

 

 

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Austro-Hungarian ship will be with high probability the Viribus Unitis or a sister ship of hers. Decent T4 BB material. The armoured cruisers all have weird mixed loadouts that would need changes to be viable (unless you classify only two 24 cm guns as main battery...), the protected cruisers make varyag look powerful and the DDs... they are anemic even for T2 (two guns and the torp armament of a Tachibana).

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Likely Dutch candidates are the Gerard Callenburgh class DD's (the premium one being the British armed version)  most likely at tier 6 opposite their Germanized sister T-61, or the Tromp CL. 

For Austria Hungary; The Tegethoff or the Ersatz Monarch design (battleships.) Possibly the Novara class CL's too. 

For Sweden; Gotland and Fylgia would make good low tier premiums, or the Sverige coastal defence ship (simiilar to Graf Spee but a tier or two lower.) Of all minor nations, Sweden and the Dutch are the most likely to be turned into full trees at some point, if Swedish DD's are made a main line, their end DD's would sport 2x2 autocannons that have a base reload of 1.5 seconds. 

For Spain; the Canarias Heavy Cruiser. 

For Yugoslavia; the Split Destroyer or Dubrovnik Destroyer. 

For Romania; the Regele Ferdinand Destroyer. 

For Greece, Georgios Averoff seems mostly likely as tier 3 or 4 armored cruiser. 

For Turkey/Ottoman Empire; the Sultan Yavuz (former SMS Goeben), one of the original German BC's (before the Prinz Eitel Friedrich chronologically) as most likely a tier 4 or 5 premium similar in role to a Myogi or Kongo, but with smaller, faster firing guns.

Other EU minors would probably end up with British or American ships that sailed under their flags. Poland only has a very small handful of DD's besides Blyskawica and the ORP Dragon (A Danae they were given post war.) Portugal may also have a premium low tier DD, they had a small handful of home grown designs. 

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26 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

there's already an N class in the game as Gadjah so it could be copy/pasted

Interesting. I somehow missed GM being an N class. Quite unfortunate, though - they seem to have lowered RPM to make it fit t7 and they'll probably treat other Ns similarly and if Piorun will make it into the game, it would be as another t7 :cap_hmm: This a bit undermines my reasoning - unlikely that WG would want both Polish premiums at the same tier.

 

Anyway, nice thread about hypothetical Dutch tree :Smile_honoring:

if only half the text wasnt black, almost unreadable in dark skin

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They could make JRM Split as either a premium or silver with multiple gun options a'la Harekaze and KM DD's, one as planned armarment and one as completed, T7/8 material :Smile_Default:

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28 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Interesting. I somehow missed GM being an N class. Quite unfortunate, though - they seem to have lowered RPM to make it fit t7 and they'll probably treat other Ns similarly and if Piorun will make it into the game, it would be as another t7 :cap_hmm: This a bit undermines my reasoning - unlikely that WG would want both Polish premiums at the same tier.

 

Anyway, nice thread about hypothetical Dutch tree :Smile_honoring:

if only half the text wasnt black, almost unreadable in dark skin

 

There's no reason that with a few upward tweaks an N class couldn't be T8.

He's been working on that thread for some time, since before the forum change so I don't think he put in text with the thought the Dark Theme would exist. I know he's thought hard about it, as a clan with a very historical bent and more than a few Dutch in it he's asked for opinions widely.

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6 hours ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

For Spain; the Canarias Heavy Cruiser. 

For Greece, Georgios Averoff seems mostly likely as tier 3 or 4 armored cruiser. 

For Turkey/Ottoman Empire; the Sultan Yavuz (former SMS Goeben), one of the original German BC's (before the Prinz Eitel Friedrich chronologically) as most likely a tier 4 or 5 premium similar in role to a Myogi or Kongo, but with smaller, faster firing guns.

 

You missed the Espana class dreadnought battleships for Spain at Tier 3 for Spain

You missed the Sultan Selim for Turkey (Aka Rio de Janiero, AKA Agincourt) for Turkey

You missed the Missippi class pre dreadnough battleships for Greece which participated in both world Wars for Greece

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Stord.

 

I am going to throw a massive sulk if we don't get this one. Tier VII, S-class RN destroyer. Known for her Torpedo runs against Scharnhorst. Qualities would be.... fewer guns than Jervis, Haida or Gadjah Mada (she has four, rather than six) but better AA. Concealment of around 6.8k (she's smaller than Gadjah or Haida), but a smaller health pool than the larger DDs. Has 8 x Haida torps with 8k range but slow reload (120 seconds). I'd like her USP to be a torp reload booster... the sort of ship that sneaks up on BBs and can be devastating... but is quite easily countered by cruisers or more heavily armed DDs.

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6 hours ago, Reaper_JackGBR said:

For Yugoslavia; the Split Destroyer or Dubrovnik Destroyer. 

giphy.gif

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6 hours ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

There's no reason that with a few upward tweaks an N class couldn't be T8.

He's been working on that thread for some time, since before the forum change so I don't think he put in text with the thought the Dark Theme would exist. I know he's thought hard about it, as a clan with a very historical bent and more than a few Dutch in it he's asked for opinions widely.

No Reason why they could not just put the N  class  EXACTLY the same as the Gadjah Mada at tier 8.. Lets face it she is somewhat OP at tier 7... imagine her with normal non DW torpedoes and able to mount the stealth Module you get at  tier 8.

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Weel, for Finland this one would be a nice tier 4 "Cruiser" kinda in the style of a mini-Graf Spee or somewhat beefed-up Katori:

 

Coastal defense ship, Väinämöinen:

5b83b88c94f28_Vin.jpg.a9834dcf79c81e7c7d71f81abb070e62.jpgguns.jpg.9a1d0b5ef49c2ae1672920148f5135b8.jpg

Very slow, but very Good AA for the tier and good, accurate long range main guns. Def AA and Repair Party consumables, no Planes:Smile_Default:

 

The ship was handed over to the Soviets as war reparations after WW2, was renamed "Vyborg" and then served in their navy until scrapped in 1966, so WG basically already has the blueprints too. :cap_like:

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50 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Weel, for Finland this one would be a nice tier 4 "Cruiser" kinda in the style of a mini-Graf Spee or somewhat beefed-up Katori:

 

Coastal defense ship, Väinämöinen:

5b83b88c94f28_Vin.jpg.a9834dcf79c81e7c7d71f81abb070e62.jpgguns.jpg.9a1d0b5ef49c2ae1672920148f5135b8.jpg

Very slow, but very Good AA for the tier and good, accurate long range main guns. Def AA and Repair Party consumables, no Planes:Smile_Default:

 

The ship was handed over to the Soviets as war reparations after WW2, was renamed "Vyborg" and then served in their navy until scrapped in 1966, so WG basically already has the blueprints too. :cap_like:

 

As cruiser this ship would have less than 20k HP as cruiser so it wouldn't have HP to tank, no speed to run away and no DPM to fight back. Any BB in T3-T5 bracket shouldn't have any problem to deal with it. All those coastal defense ships are not adequate for this game, too slow, small HP pool, very limited armament. Accurate BB guns, especially at lower tiers, are not a good idea but then again if their guns are not accurate, as they have only small number of them, they would lack DPM to be fun. They would need to be very gimmicking and balanced about ton of consumables. I don't see how this ships could be good for a game. 

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1 minute ago, Mandalorianer said:

100€ that Swedish Cruiser will be like Swedish Tank Destroyer in WoT!

Indeed, it will be interesting to see what WG make of them... AA Cruiser, Floatplane Cruiser or just plain ole Leander-style CL? Or maybe a mix of all of the above? :cap_hmm:

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6 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Indeed, it will be interesting to see what WG make of them... AA Cruiser, Floatplane Cruiser or just plain ole Leander-style CL? Or maybe a mix of all of the above? :cap_hmm:

 

My guess is 203mm guns, 5sec reload, Sigma of 5.0, dispersoin 0 meters and 1500m/s muzzle velo.

As for Consumables: Repair, Smoke, Radar, Hydro, AA Fire, Speed Boost and as new gimmik: "Deployable Island"

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2 hours ago, pzkpfwv1d said:

 

You missed the Espana class dreadnought battleships for Spain at Tier 3 for Spain

You missed the Sultan Selim for Turkey (Aka Rio de Janiero, AKA Agincourt) for Turkey

You missed the Missippi class pre dreadnough battleships for Greece which participated in both world Wars for Greece

And for Greece you could bring in the originally designed CA Lambros Katsonis which we Brits took instead for WW1 and commissioned as HMS Chester.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Chester_(1915)

 

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Actually The Royal Hellenic Navy includes 3 legends of WW 1 and WW2.

1st And most famous the ONLY still existed Armored Cruiser Georgios Averof. Its the only world wide of this kind and that old that not only floats but recently made a 500 miles journey.

The 2nd Legend was Vasilisa Olga and its sister ship Vasileus Georgios .

0+olga.jpg

The ships were hybrid with German guns and british torpedos. Recently UK Top secret documents revealed that RADAR device was an invention of the enginear Mr Santorinis that the tests finall reached to a point that Greek industry had no meanings to continue its development and gave the rights of the patern to Marconi Industry!!!

The 3rd Legend was Destroyer Adrias with the worldwide record of cruising without its front part after an airstrike!

The return to Alexandria was considered EPIC and the ENTIRE ALLY FLEET presented to well come it back!!!

THESE ARE LEGENDS not some insignificant ships that played no role to WWs that WG presents us as legend ones!

EDIT: I guess That WG as former Soviets do not wish to add Hellenic ships for two reasons:

1st: Because Averof defeated alone twice the Entire Ottoman Fleet and Turks are too many as customers to see the Seitan Pambor that sunk the Barrbarossa's Sacred Banner!

2nd": Because Soviets hated so much Greek that when Italy invaded Greece in 1940 Pradva newpaper congatulated Mousolini! ONLY WHEN GREECE delayed the German operation Barbarossa with the battle of Crete only then Soviets published a huge Thank you to Pravda again! So Soviets/Russian are hypocrites about what ship is legend and what is not!

 

 

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@Anthoniusii sadly they said no greeks so soon. I would love to see Georgios Averoff in the game some day. 

 

Another ship that I can imagine in the game is the National Spanish light cruiser Baleares. 

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11 minutes ago, Anthoniusii said:

Actually The Royal Hellenic Navy includes 3 legends of WW 1 and WW2.

1st And most famous the ONLY still existed Armored Cruiser Georgios Averof. Its the only world wide of this kind and that old that not only floats but recently made a 500 miles journey.

 

While no doubt that cruiser Georgios Averof is worthy to be added to the game, major problem with this ship, just like all similar ships, is not having unified caliber of the main guns. WG already mentioned that, for now, they won't implement any ship, they specifically mentioned pre-dreadnoughts, because of this. Maybe with time they will change this but, again for now, it is hard to expect any ship without single caliber main guns to be included into the game.

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Just now, fumtu said:

 

While no doubt that cruiser Georgios Averof is worthy to be added to the game, major problem with this ship, just like all similar ships, is not having unified caliber of the main guns. WG already mentioned that, for now, they won't implement any ship, they specifically mentioned pre-dreadnoughts, because of this. Maybe with time they will change this but, again for now, it is hard to expect any ship without single caliber main guns to be included into the game.

Yea but the Destroyers could be easily added. They added a hybrid Duch/German one that was NEVER that famous as the 2 Hellenic ones!

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1 minute ago, Anthoniusii said:

Yea but the Destroyers could be easily added. They added a hybrid Duch/German one that was NEVER that famous as the 2 Hellenic ones!

 

I agree about that. I read book "Fighting Destroyer" about HMS Petard which for large part of her Mediterranean service was in division with Vasilisa Olga,  and crew of HMS Petard highly praised her service while sailing together. I would like to see her in the game.

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Just going through my Janes to see what ships can be selected for Pan European lines - probably lots of destroyers 

 

Up to 1918 build 

 

Austro Hungarian Navy 

Viribus Unitus -  BB - either T3 or T 4

Erzherzog Franz Ferdinand - CA- T3 or T4 but WG would need to replace the 2 twin 12 inch guns with two more twin 9.4 inch guns for unified armament this would reduce displacement by approximately 1000 tons and raise the speed

Erzherhog Karl - CA - T3 but WG would need to replace the 2 twin 9.4 inch with twin 7.5" for unified armament (lower displacement and higher speed)

Habsburg - CL -T3 but  WG would need to remove the 3 9.4 inch (1 twin and 1 single turret)  and replace them with 2 twin 5.9", this would give unified armament of 16 5.9" 

Saida (improved Spaun) - LC - T2 9 x 4.1"

Kaiser Franz Josef - 2 5.9" (40 cal) and 6 5.9" (35 cal), WG just needs to unify calibres at 40 and this would be a useful T2 light cruiser

No useful destroyers as they were all small circa 400 tons displacement 

 

Bulgarian Torpedo Gunboat - Nadezhda - 715 tons, 2 3.9in 2 9 pdr and 2 tubes

 

Ottoman Empire (aka Turkey)

 

Turgut Reis - CA T2 or T3 - 9901 tones 6 11" (4 40 cal and 2 35 cal) speed would need to be increased though 8 x 4.1" and 8 x3.4" (so probably remove the 3.4" guns

Messudiyeh - CL - T2 - 10000 tons (reconstructed) WG would probably remove the single 9.2" guns and replace with twin 6" for unified main armament of 16 6" guns 

Reshadieh (Erin) T4 or T5

Sultan Osman I (Agincourt) T3 or T4

Sultan Selim - T3 or T4

 

Royal Swedish Navy 

 

Severige - CA - T4 4 11" and 8 6" 22.5knots basically and scaled down Admiral Graf Spee

Oscar den Andra - T4 CL remove the two single 8.3" and replace with twin 6" and this would be a useful but slow light cruiser with all turret mounted guns 

Fylgia - T2 - 8 6inch and 2 torpedo tubes 

 

 

Norway - CL - T3 WG would need to remove the single 9.2" turrets and replace with twin 5.9" for this to be a useful light cruiser with 10 5.9" guns 

 

Netherlands 

 

Jacob van Heemskerck - CL - T3 - WG would need to remove the two single 9.4" turrets and replace them with 5.9" 40 cal and this would be a useful early light cruiser

 

Spain 

 

Espana class - T3 

Pelayo - T3 CA - WG replace the 12.6" with 11" and this would be another scaled down Admiral Graf Spee

Princesa de Asturias - CL T3 - WG to replace the single 9.4" bow and stern with twin 5.5" and this would be a useful early light cruiser 

 

Royal Hellenic Navy

 

Kilkis and Lemnos - T2 or if WG played around with the armamnent a T3 heavy cruiser (i.e remove 12" and replace with twin 8", replace 7" with 8" and she would have 20 8 guns 

Giorgios Averoff - T2 or T3 (replace the 9.4" with 7.5" for unified armament)

 

1919 to 1945

 

Finland - Vainomoinen

Greece - Miaoulis (modified Hunt class) and 4 others

Greece - Themistoklis class - as above but no tubes 

Netherlands - De Zeven Provincien CL 8 x 6inch, Tromp 6 x 5.9", Karel Doorman CV (ex HMS Nairana), Java class T3 or T4 8 single 5.9", De Ruijter DD class 

Norway bergen (C class 1944/45) DD, Stord (Success), Arendal (Badesworth) all DD's

Portugal - Vouga class DD

Romania - Marasti (ex Spavviero) DD

Spain - Canarias CA, Galicia class CL, MEndez Nunez CL, Navarra CL, Audaz class DD, Alsedo class DD

Turkey - Gayret (HMS Oribi) DD, Demirhisar (HMS Incenstant) DD, Tinastepe DD

 

 

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