Standard COOP doesn't pay for ammo anymore?.../7.8 waifubot changes discussion

[orzel286]

Or were ammo costs deleted for everyone? Or is it just a bug?

 

 

Or maybe wargaming finally realised that standard coop is a viable game mode that some people enjoy and went "here, lose less credits while we take a look at statistics before we rebalance standard coop economy to make it more in line with other game modes"? I mean, in 7.8 waifubots got buffed a bit according to patchnotes (which makes me happi boi, I was asking for buffs for some time now, thanks!)... Is it beginning of AI rebellion wg showing luv to coop?

 

I know that everyone is at gamescon, but here goes: @MrConway is this an intended change and a step towards making waifulovers lives better or will my heart get broken again?

[howardxu_23]

From what I can tell from my experience, bots are now more campy and are more likely to hide in smoke rathar then going BANZAI. The good news it means more opportunities to use spotter to practice shooting into smoke+ radar and hydro being more useful, since from what I can tell, bots do not move at all when in camping mode, even when you light them up with radar.

 

Did not check the Co-op economy however.

 

also terminator-like AI rebellion will happen soon, it’s just the matter of time.

[lafeel]

30 minutes ago, orzel286 said:

Or were ammo costs deleted for everyone? Or is it just a bug?

 

 

Or maybe wargaming finally realised that standard coop is a viable game mode that some people enjoy and went "here, lose less credits while we take a look at statistics before we rebalance standard coop economy to make it more in line with other game modes"? I mean, in 7.8 waifubots got buffed a bit according to patchnotes (which makes me happi boi, I was asking for buffs for some time now, thanks!)... Is it beginning of AI rebellion wg showing luv to coop?

 

I know that everyone is at gamescon, but here goes: @MrConway is this an intended change and a step towards making waifulovers lives better or will my heart get broken again?

Might have more luck tagging @Crysantos as he's not at Gamescom..

[orzel286]

31 minutes ago, howardxu_23 said:

From what I can tell from my experience, bots are now more campy and are more likely to hide in smoke rathar then going BANZAI. The good news it means more opportunities to use spotter to practice shooting into smoke+ radar and hydro being more useful, since from what I can tell, bots do not move at all when in camping mode, even when you light them up with radar.

 

Did not check the Co-op economy however.

 

also terminator-like AI rebellion will happen soon, it’s just the matter of time.

Didn't notice campy bots, but I can confirm that they WILL (at least sometimes) deliberately send torps into not-even-so-angery smokescreens (I was caught like this big time just a couple of minutes ago, can provide replay if interested).

5 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Might have more luck tagging @Crysantos as he's not at Gamescom..

Thanks!

[howardxu_23]

 

1 hour ago, orzel286 said:

Didn't notice campy bots, but I can confirm that they WILL (at least sometimes) deliberately send torps into not-even-so-angery smokescreens (I was caught like this big time just a couple of minutes ago, can provide replay if interested)

I was playing BB, and yelling banzai into a massive angry hunk of metal that has turrets which can weigh as much as a DD is probably not the best idea, so I assume now they recognise enemy types and act accordingly.

 

although still seems they can only recongnise ONE enemy type at a time, so making sure that the correct Boat(same “size” class or lower)gets spotted first will increase their chance to go banzai charge.

[AnEvilJoke]

As I lived the last month more or less in Co-Op...

 

No they don't camp, they still can't use Hydro or Radar or anything else properly the only thing that wargaming did was the lazy mans thing;

Bots are allowed to pre-aim, even is they can't "see" you.

Bots always know where you (nearest enemy) are and will sail straight to you (nearest enemy) even if they can't "see" you.

Bots always ain't for your Citadelle and they can and will f*ck you up even from +20km.

Bots know exactly the moment you fire your guns and/or torpedos, so they are qwway better at dodging than every human ever can be and from what I've seen sofar sometimes s script kicks in that forbids them to dodge.

[howardxu_23]

I mean the gamescon bots. Their behaviour is certainly....changed.

[AnEvilJoke]

12 minutes ago, howardxu_23 said:

I mean the gamescon bots. Their behaviour is certainly....changed.

 

They're called "Guest Accounts"

[howardxu_23]

I specifically pressed the Co-op button, it was first a blue circle with a anchor icon on top. Bots certainly do try to camp there.

 

although

35 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

 

They're called "Guest Accounts"

Players do the same thing, so at least it’s training me to deal with campers on both sides now, so it is somewhat representative of actual pvp now 

[eliastion]

3 hours ago, howardxu_23 said:

From what I can tell from my experience, bots are now more campy and are more likely to hide in smoke rathar then going BANZAI. 

Really? I played a lot of coop in GO Navy! when I needed points but had no time or brain to focus on PvP and what bots do with smoke is consistently:

1. Full speed ahead towards the enemy.

2. Get spotted.

3. Pop smoke while still going full speed.

4. Die (preferably by mutual ramming with the mirror bot from players' team).

[orzel286]

1 hour ago, Mandalorianer said:

Bots always know where you (nearest enemy) are and will sail straight to you (nearest enemy) even if they can't "see" you.

I think this (and bot aggro in general) was changed this patch.

 

I mean, sure, they do this, but sometimes they don't(?) - like I completely expected a bot dd to this and instead that bot decided to switch flanks and launch some torps into my smokescreen just for lulz and that cought me completely off-guard.

 

I noticed that I'm not getting as much focus from carriers, last game in mutsuki I got completely ignored, which is strange for me, previously every plane was sent at me, today it was like max 1 group was for me and rest was spread amongst the rest of the team or it was human cv getting sniped. I think that, bot pathing was changed accordingly, like normally, on haven-domination the group that goes C goes all the way through it no matter what, today I've seen a bot turn around and a)not try to chase me down (bottom tier cruiser); b)chase after top tier bb that went past it. Which is completely new to me, because I'm used to being chased around not chasing.

 

Might be that I'm wrong, but this is what I observed so far.

[AnEvilJoke]

Just now, orzel286 said:

I think this (and bot aggro in general) was changed this patch.

 

I noticed that I'm not getting as much focus from carriers, last game in mutsuki I got completely ignored, which is strange for me, previously every plane was sent at me, today it was like max 1 group was for me and rest was spread amongst the rest of the team or it was human cv getting sniped. I think that, bot pathing was changed accordingly, like normally, on haven-domination the group that goes C goes all the way through it no matter what, today I've seen a bot turn around and a)not try to chase me down (bottom tier cruiser); b)chase after top tier bb that went past it. Which is completely new to me, because I'm used to being chased around not chasing.

 

Might be that I'm wrong, but this is what I observed so far.

 

Bot Carrier are currently complietly broken. I don't know the scripts running on them but they do not work as intended.

My money is on a conflict between different scrips as the priority list is checked what target the Bot should attack so he sends every single squad on another target.

[orzel286]

8 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

 

Bot Carrier are currently complietly broken. I don't know the scripts running on them but they do not work as intended.

My money is on a conflict between different scrips as the priority list is checked what target the Bot should attack so he sends every single squad on another target.

I don't know, well, it's kind of common sense to focus on the biggest threat, but it was getting a bit tiring getting labeled "THE BIGGESTEST THREAT EVER" and getting all the drops even though I'm on the other side of the map and bot carrier is getting rekt by a big boat that's just a few clicks away from it her, so I'll just enjoy it until it gets fixed I guess.

[AnEvilJoke]

3 minutes ago, orzel286 said:

I don't know, well, it's kind of common sense to focus on the biggest threat, but it was getting a bit tiring getting labeled "THE BIGGESTEST THREAT EVER" and getting all the drops even though I'm on the other side of the map and bot carrier is getting rekt by a big boat that's just a few clicks away from it her, so I'll just enjoy it until it gets fixed I guess.

 

As I said in my first post in this topic: They did the lazy mans way.

First on prio-list is probably the one with the best Co-Op stats to insure that people don't play Co-Op forever.

While on normal ships the guns are "linked" as one, lets say "weapon" is in the case of the carrier each squadron a "weapon" and the scripts don't like that.

But finding that error can be exhausting, try to look, read and understand code for 2-3 hours and you know what I mean.

[Yedwy]

3 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

But finding that error can be exhausting, try to look, read and understand code for 2-3 hours and you know what I mean.

Oh man, code debugging, instant migrene headache and possibly another step twards an ulcer as well 

[Juanx]

1 hour ago, howardxu_23 said:

I specifically pressed the Co-op button, it was first a blue circle with a anchor icon on top. Bots certainly do try to camp there.

 

Erm, no, bots only stop or slow down when damaged or in your cap zone, they never for any reason camp or stop.

[orzel286]

13 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

First on prio-list is probably the one with the best Co-Op stats to insure that people don't play Co-Op forever.

Been suspecting as much for quite some time lol. @wargaming - nothing wrong with playing coop forever! You think I'll cheat on my waifubots? THINK. AGAIN!

13 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

While on normal ships the guns are "linked" as one, lets say "weapon" is in the case of the carrier each squadron a "weapon" and the scripts don't like that.

But finding that error can be exhausting, try to look, read and understand code for 2-3 hours and you know what I mean.

I don't know what exactly you mean by "linked", but non-cv bots are able to shoot multiple targets, be it with main battery or torps. Or maybe they just lose their main target for a while, kinda hard to tell.

[AnEvilJoke]

1 minute ago, orzel286 said:

I don't know what exactly you mean by "linked", but non-cv bots are able to shoot multiple targets, be it with main battery or torps. Or maybe they just lose their main target for a while, kinda hard to tell.

 

All guns or torpedo launcher are linked to the same crosshair.

Planes are not.

[Juanx]

1 minute ago, Mandalorianer said:

 

All guns or torpedo launcher are linked to the same crosshair.

Planes are not.

 

In their case, they are also allowed to attack more than 1 target at a time, very seldom are back and front turrets aiming-shooting at the same target.

 

We can sorta do that too, but the single point turret rotation makes it nigh impossible.

[AnEvilJoke]

2 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

In their case, they are also allowed to attack more than 1 target at a time, very seldom are back and front turrets aiming-shooting at the same target.

 

We can sorta do that too, but the single point turret rotation makes it nigh impossible.

 

But not at the same time and thats the "jumping point"

[Juanx]

2 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

 

But not at the same time and thats the "jumping point"

 

At least that is on par with players, they have been given enough cheats already.

[AnEvilJoke]

Just now, Juanx said:

 

At least that is on par with players, they have been given enough cheats already.

 

To be honest, I can't think of any more to give them besides that and maybe ignoring concealment alltogether...

 

But even if wargaming would had the server to support it and actual good coded bots, there is always a limit and VI and AI are out of question.

[orzel286]

20 minutes ago, Mandalorianer said:

 

All guns or torpedo launcher are linked to the same crosshair.

Planes are not.

Makes sense. In any case - it's nice getting a break like this, makes playing a lot less frustrating when human carrier doesn't know what fighters are for (which happens way too often)

[howardxu_23]

1 hour ago, Juanx said:

 

Erm, no, bots only stop or slow down when damaged or in your cap zone, they never for any reason camp or stop.

Hmm, that must be it.

the bots who I think are camping have been hit early on in the game.

 

oh and managed to find conclusive answer for the Co-op economy: yes you no longer need to pay for the ammo that is used to shoot peeps.

[ForlornSailor]

3 hours ago, Juanx said:

Erm, no, bots only stop or slow down when damaged or in your cap zone, they never for any reason camp or stop.

 

Bots dont camp? This Izumo from today disagrees! I dropped my anchor right next to him. Needless to say - the Tirpitz in my team didnt like that. He came steaming full around the corner to torp me out of the game. Yea, no joke. Was ALT+F4 right there for me. The $hit you see every day in this game...