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DFens_666

Standard Battle - Capping the base takes 5-6 mins ?!

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So... had just a game where i wanted to cap the base, because i was unsure of the outcome otherwise.

Apparantly, it takes way more than 3 mins despite not being reset ONCE.

The question is, how does it really work?

- I enter the base roughly with 7:06 to go, while already 2 ships are INSIDE the base. Which means, me being there doesnt speed up the process. On the other hand, the game is pretty much ignoring that im there anyway.

- With ~5:35 left, the 2nd ship who entered the base left the cap again. So im already 1:30 in the cap, but this doesnt matter as it seems, since i was the 3rd ship in line and now that im the 2nd longest in the cap, i apparently start capping? Or so would i think.

- In that circumstance, i should cap the base AT LATEST with 2:30 to go.

- Reality is, that im only able to cap until 0:52 left, which means i was 6:14 inside the cap, or atleast 4:43 if i take the time after the 2nd ship left the base, which means i should definetely start the counter for myself at that time.

So how does that make senes? Obviously it doesnt where i come from.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Bug? Working as intended? Who nows. I think its wrong.

@MrConway@Tuccy

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Cap points are divided between ships.

Ships that get reset lose cappoints.

Big ships entering caps that get constantly reset slow down the capping for the stealthy ship hidden in the same cap.

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8 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Cap points are divided between ships.

Ships that get reset lose cappoints.

Big ships entering caps that get constantly reset slow down the capping for the stealthy ship hidden in the same cap.

 

In the scenario displayed they do not, it takes 2 minutes for a ship to capture the enemy base in that mode, 1 ship or 10 ships, the same.

 

It certainly looks funny, you last got hit at about -6:something minute mark, should have been enough to cap the thing on your cap points alone, unless splash from any of the many allies fumbling around you reset your progress.

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  • One ship needs 180s, 2+ ships need 120 seconds
  • Cap progress is divided equally between all ships for each time segment
  • Getting reset means losing half the cap progress for that ship
  • Big, bulky ship that gets hit constantly slows down the cap progress for all ships in cap as cap progress is divided

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2 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:
  • One ship needs 180s, 2+ ships need 120 seconds
  • Cap progress is divided equally between all ships for each time segment
  • Getting reset means losing half the cap progress for that ship
  • Big, bulky ship that gets hit constantly slows down the cap progress for all ships in cap as cap progress is divided

 

As said, it spent almost 5 minutes with 0 changes to health, or being shot at for that matter, unless splash from another ship hit it, there should have been a cap just fine.

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34 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

So... had just a game where i wanted to cap the base, because i was unsure of the outcome otherwise.

Apparantly, it takes way more than 3 mins despite not being reset ONCE.

The question is, how does it really work?

- I enter the base roughly with 7:06 to go, while already 2 ships are INSIDE the base. Which means, me being there doesnt speed up the process. On the other hand, the game is pretty much ignoring that im there anyway.

- With ~5:35 left, the 2nd ship who entered the base left the cap again. So im already 1:30 in the cap, but this doesnt matter as it seems, since i was the 3rd ship in line and now that im the 2nd longest in the cap, i apparently start capping? Or so would i think.

- In that circumstance, i should cap the base AT LATEST with 2:30 to go.

- Reality is, that im only able to cap until 0:52 left, which means i was 6:14 inside the cap, or atleast 4:43 if i take the time after the 2nd ship left the base, which means i should definetely start the counter for myself at that time.

So how does that make senes? Obviously it doesnt where i come from.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

Bug? Working as intended? Who nows. I think its wrong.

@MrConway@Tuccy

 

It sounds wrong.

Have you been able to replicate it in the training room, I can lend a hand if you want to test it and have someone plonk the odd reset shot in. Since bots will always head for the cap it should be easy enough to test a few scenarios with a couple of people.

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6 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:
  • One ship needs 180s, 2+ ships need 120 seconds
  • Cap progress is divided equally between all ships for each time segment
  • Getting reset means losing half the cap progress for that ship
  • Big, bulky ship that gets hit constantly slows down the cap progress for all ships in cap as cap progress is divided

 

Did you watch the video? Also, I dont / didnt think thats how it works. Lets got with your numbers here.

If I put 1 ship in the cap, nobody is resetting - time to cap: 180 s

If you put 2 ships in the cap, nobody is resetting them time to cap: 120 s

 

so far so good, right?

 

If I put two ships in the cap, one is beeing constantly resetted, the other is never resetted - time to cap: max. 180 s imo.

 

Or you trying to tell us, that is not the case?

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5 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

As said, it spent almost 5 minutes with 0 changes to health, or being shot at for that matter, unless splash from another ship hit it, there should have been a cap just fine.

The other ships got reset constantly...  (as clearly shown by time jumping)

Had they moved out sooner, the capping would have gone quicker.

Capping works only if you do not get reset.

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2 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

Have you been able to replicate it in the training room, I can lend a hand if you want to test it and have someone plonk the odd reset shot in. Since bots will always head for the cap it should be easy enough to test a few scenarios with a couple of people.

 

Thats sounds like a good idea. I have a suspicion, that the order in which the ships are entering the cap, has an influence here. Afaik: only 2 ships influence the time that the base needs to be capped. Since in the video Dfens is no.3... Maybe the games screws up in this case? Maybe it doesnt take his capping into account at all? Maybe we need to take a closer look at the vid with timestamps.. checking when and who is getting hit, when and who leaves the base.

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5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:
  • One ship needs 180s

 

So you agree that it took way too long for me to cap the base :Smile-_tongue:
 

@Juanx yes splash damage might be, however i feel i wasnt close enough for any of those.

 

1 minute ago, BeauNidl3 said:

It sounds wrong.

Have you been able to replicate it in the training room, I can lend a hand if you want to test it and have someone plonk the odd reset shot in. Since bots will always head for the cap it should be easy enough to test a few scenarios with a couple of people.

 

Well, sure could try it. I wonder where the problem is, i think there could be several

1. The game doesnt remeber which ships enter the cap AFTER the first 2. Maybe i couldnt cap the base because of Kongo or König? Certainly seems fine after everyone else left the base. But then again, they didnt leave the base early enough...

2. Something gets screwed when so many ships are inside the base, even when not all are getting a reset.

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Just now, ColonelPete said:

You were not one ship...

 

Can you anwser this...

 

9 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Did you watch the video? Also, I dont / didnt think thats how it works. Lets got with your numbers here.

If I put 1 ship in the cap, nobody is resetting - time to cap: 180 s

If you put 2 ships in the cap, nobody is resetting them time to cap: 120 s

 

so far so good, right?

 

If I put two ships in the cap, one is beeing constantly resetted, the other is never resetted - time to cap: max. 180 s imo.

 

Or you trying to tell us, that is not the case?

 

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i didnt watch video but i can explain how 120 seconds cap can be over 5 minutes with 3 ships in cap.

 

so with 2 or more ships in cap capping time is 120 seconds. cause someone mentioned 3 ships, every of 3 ships gets 1 second of cap value every 3 second they stay in cap. so that means that in 120 seconds staying in cap one ship will have 40 seconds of capping value. so in scenario where 3 ships are capping and 2 are getting reset all the time, you would need 360 seconds(6 minutes) of capping.

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8 minutes ago, robihr said:

i didnt watch video but i can explain how 120 seconds cap can be over 5 minutes with 3 ships in cap.

 

so with 2 or more ships in cap capping time is 120 seconds. cause someone mentioned 3 ships, every of 3 ships gets 1 second of cap value every 3 second they stay in cap. so that means that in 120 seconds staying in cap one ship will have 40 seconds of capping value. so in scenario where 3 ships are capping and 2 are getting reset all the time, you would need 360 seconds(6 minutes) of capping.

 

Well, that could be tested easily if thats true. However, the first two ships left the base, and i still need more than 3 Mins to cap. Also at some point we have 5 ships in the cap.

What you are also saying, if the enemy Z would have went to our cap, he would have won the battle because of above reason. Which would be TOTALY RETARDED!!!

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I always found it fishy and extremely counter-intuitive that capping with two ships will in most cases be slower than capping alone.

 

If you have a no camo Izumo and a full camo Kagero capping and the Izumo is constantly spotted and reset by enemy fire then their mutual effort will be slower than just the Kagero capping which to me does not make sense at all. Even if the Izumo is hit a quadrillion times and her cap contribution is zero the Kagero needs to secure cap after 180s, same as capping alone.

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11 minutes ago, robihr said:

i didnt watch video but i can explain how 120 seconds cap can be over 5 minutes with 3 ships in cap.

 

so with 2 or more ships in cap capping time is 120 seconds. cause someone mentioned 3 ships, every of 3 ships gets 1 second of cap value every 3 second they stay in cap. so that means that in 120 seconds staying in cap one ship will have 40 seconds of capping value. so in scenario where 3 ships are capping and 2 are getting reset all the time, you would need 360 seconds(6 minutes) of capping.

Kinda doubt it. Have capped my fair share of caps and it has never gone over 3min in standard when im not shot.

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8 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Well, that could be tested easily if thats true. However, the first two ships left the base, and i still need more than 3 Mins to cap. Also at some point we have 5 ships in the cap.

What you are also saying, if the enemy Z would have went to our cap, he would have won the battle because of above reason. Which would be TOTALY RETARDED!!!

When you drive DD often enough, you experience that a lot.

And yes, there is a reason you do not go for the enemy cap in standard battle, if the enemy can get to yours uncontested.

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20 minutes ago, robihr said:

i didnt watch video but i can explain how 120 seconds cap can be over 5 minutes with 3 ships in cap.

 

so with 2 or more ships in cap capping time is 120 seconds. cause someone mentioned 3 ships, every of 3 ships gets 1 second of cap value every 3 second they stay in cap. so that means that in 120 seconds staying in cap one ship will have 40 seconds of capping value. so in scenario where 3 ships are capping and 2 are getting reset all the time, you would need 360 seconds(6 minutes) of capping.

 

How?

 

If Im not being shot at, and it would take me alone 3 minutes, why does having other ships in cap being hit reduce MY cap points?

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Well, since speculating doesnt get us nowhere, we will try to get some more info tomorrow, since not enough time today :fish_book:

Maybe we get some answers if and where there could be a problem.

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22 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

How?

 

If Im not being shot at, and it would take me alone 3 minutes, why does having other ships in cap being hit reduce MY cap points?

It was already explained, but I do it again.

 

Imagine you need 180 cap points to get a cap.

 

One ship ship gets 1 cap point per second for 180 cap points in 180 seconds.

Two or more ships get 1.5 cap points per second for 180 cap points in 120 seconds or 6 cap points in 4 seconds.

 

Cap points are divided between ships (somehow people seem to miss that constantly in this thread).

Two ships get 3 cap points each in 4 seconds, for a total of 6 points in 4 seconds.

Three ships get 2 cap points each in 4 seconds for a total of 6 points in 4 seconds.

Six ships get 1 cap point each in 4 seconds for a total of 6 points in 4 seconds.

 

Now imagine one of two ships is gettting reset constantly. The other ship now caps with 3 points per 4 seconds. Would he cap alone, he could do 4 points in 4 seconds. Slightly faster.

Now imagine two of three ships are getting reset constantly, basicly getting no progress. The third ship will now cap at a speed of 2 points per 4 seconds. Would he cap alone, he could do 4 points in 4 seconds. Much faster!

Now imagine five of six ships are getting reset constantly, basicly getting no progress. The sixth ship will now cap at a speed of 1 point per 4 seconds. Would he cap alone, he could do 4 points in 4 seconds. Basicly getting the whole cap in around a quarter of the time!

 

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20 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

How?

 

If Im not being shot at, and it would take me alone 3 minutes, why does having other ships in cap being hit reduce MY cap points?

It doesn't reduce your cap points. Other ships sitting in the cap just reduces the rate at which you gain points in the first place (to avoid something like 6 ships steaming into a cap and capping in 30 seconds). If the others are reset, thus effectively contributing nothing and you have to get all the points, obviously, with the reduced rate it takes far longer to effectively fully cap.

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Aren't the capture points split between the capping ships though? I remember reading that somewhere, but I might be wrong. In any case:

 

Number of ships

Time to cap in standard mode Capture points per second per ship* Time for one ship to capture the entire point alone
1 180 100/(180*1) = 0,555  100/0,555 = 180 (obv.) 
2 120 100/(120*2) = 0,416 100/0,416 = 240
3 120 100/(120*3) = 0,277 100/0,277 = 360

 

The video example follows the above, so I assume that I remembered correctly. As such, if you are continuously getting reset, it's actually better for you to go out of the capture circle. The most optimal solution would be to disengage and/or using an island as cover to prevent disruptions though.

*100 might not be the total points in a capture circle but it does not matter what number we use in this calculation

 

EDIT: Jesus, one addition and the entire post breaks :fish_palm:.

EDIT2: Fixed.

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2 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

It doesn't reduce your cap points. Other ships sitting in the cap just reduces the rate at which you gain points in the first place (to avoid something like 6 ships steaming into a cap and capping in 30 seconds). If the others are reset, thus effectively contributing nothing and you have to get all the points, obviously, with the reduced rate it takes far longer to effectively fully cap.

 

So it should have taken the OP 3 minutes to cap regardless, thank you.

 

Instead, we have the video the OP posted as evidence that even after 5 minutes of not being hit, at least directly, there was no cap.

Just now, Kartoffelmos said:

Aren't the capture points split between the capping ships though? I remember reading that somewhere, but I might be wrong. In any case:

 

Number of ships Time to cap in standard mode Capture points per second per ship* Time for one ship to capture the entire point alone
1 180 100/(180*1) = 0,555  100/0,555 = 180 (obv.) 
2 120 100/(120*2) = 0,416 100/0,416 = 240
3 120 100/(120*3) = 0,277 100/0,277 = 360

 

The video example follows the above, so I assume that I remembered correctly.

*100 might not be the total points in a capture circle but it does not matter what number we use in this calculation

 

Oh, so that is indeed the case. So its but another example of how WG can not really code anything sensible.

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5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Now imagine one of two ships is gettting reset constantly. The other ship now caps with 3 points per 4 seconds. Would he cap alone, he could do 4 points in 4 seconds. Slightly faster.

Now imagine two of three ships are getting reset constantly, basicly getting no progress. The third ship will now cap at a speed of 2 points per 4 seconds. Would he cap alone, he could do 4 points in 4 seconds. Much faster!

Now imagine five of six ships are getting reset constantly, basicly getting no progress. The sixth ship will now cap at a speed of 1 point per 4 seconds. Would he cap alone, he could do 4 points in 4 seconds. Basicly getting the whole cap in around a quarter of the time!

 

It was said somewhere, that more then 2 ships dont influence the capping-process. As it make it shorter. Also, its common to shoot all the ships that are capping, and not to focus on one in particular. However, of the table posted by @Kartoffelmos is infact right, what many people belieave about capping is simply wrong.

 

Also: I will call it out right here as a stupid mechanic, that needs to be chanced (if confirmed working infact like this). The video holds a very nice example - the enemy Z-39. IF he would enter the green base, it would have been very likely, that he would be undisturbed. And its obvious he would enter the cap after tje Fiji in the video. Still he would cap faster then the video - which is at no point resetted. So how does it make sense then 1 ship is able to cap faster then the other? Why does one team win with 1 ship in the cap, while the other is basically punished for having 5 ships in the enemy cap. And now comes the utmost crazy conclusion of it all: Shall I in such a case attemped to teamkill my friendly ship in the enemy cap, because that would make me win!

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2 minutes ago, Kartoffelmos said:

Aren't the capture points split between the capping ships though? I remember reading that somewhere, but I might be wrong. In any case:

 

Number of ships Time to cap in standard mode Capture points per second per ship* Time for one ship to capture the entire point alone
1 180 100/(180*1) = 0,555  100/0,555 = 180 (obv.) 
2 120 100/(120*2) = 0,416 100/0,416 = 240
3 120 100/(120*3) = 0,277 100/0,277 = 360

 

The video example follows the above, so I assume that I remembered correctly.

*100 might not be the total points in a capture circle but it does not matter what number we use in this calculation

 

When ppl know this, why is noone bothered with that? So basicly, once again, your teammates CAN AND WILL screw you over in order to lose the game.

Way to make a "teamgame" where your team bu**fu*** you all over the place :cap_fainting:

I think in no case one ship, which never receives a reset, should need more than 3 minutes to cap alone.

 

Btw, talking about game mechanics noone understands... but when you ask for little stuff WG goes like " oh players wont understand that" ye right... I clearly see half the ppl in this thread didnt know that. And those arent random potatoes!

 

Im still wondering if the 3rd ship will ever cap, when ship no 1 and 2 will get constantly resetted.

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