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DFens_666

Suggestions for OP Hermes

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So... this one is really bugging me. This operation can start with 7 Cruiser players, and you will get 3 BBs. One secondary mission is, not to have less than 3 BBs. If you have 1 random BB, you will still get those 3 Bot BBs, which means you can lose one. If you have 2 Random BBs, you will get 2 Bot BBs + 1 CM, so again you have one spare.

 

Suggestion: Change the mission to not lose more than 1 BB, so in either case you can lose 1. Having 7 Cruisers is already harder, because those Bots really shoot well, and they focus one target, so its tough being a Cruiser. Only exception are those with a Heal, which can atleast heal the fire damage after the repair circle is gone.

 

2nd Suggestion:

Those AP Bombs are totaly unbalanced vs Cruisers. Ive seen twice the T1 bombers deal 15k damage to an Indianapolis, while the GZ deal 17k to me in my Fiji. First time atleast he needed 3 runs on me, but the last time, he just straight bombed me to death with 3 bombs (ofc all hitting me), dealing 17k+ damage :cap_old:

They seem to be EXTREMELY hard to evade, and because they are GZ (derpderp) they citadel Cruisers with ease.

Would be hard enough if they would be normal DBs and not AP DBs.

 

@MrConway @Tuccy

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Im gonna bump this up, as i feel its relevant again.

 

I feel this OP really punishes you if you play for the objective, and imo thats just wrong. 99% of random players in this OP sit behind the Bot fleet, and they are willingly sacrificing stars or even the win by letting the bots tank.

 

- BBs are totaly easy mode in this OP, why? Bots ignore them at all cost, and they pretty much wait for a Cruiser to be spotted so they can blapp them. Not to mention the DDs really hurt Cruisers, not sure if they are equipped with big guns or they got IFHE. (but thats still manageable)

- If you play a Cruiser, and you are the only one with a brain to stick infront of the Bots, you getting focused so hard its barely fun. When the AP bombers show up than its really over. The problem is, you want to be infront of the Bots AFTER the healing circle, because they dont evade the torps from the 3 DDs + Bayern rushing from the flank. Here comes problem mentioned in the OP to play -> Having not enough BBs so you can lose one and lose a star, while in another match you can lose one and not lose a star. And once you are alone there, the AP bombers will target you, and its only a question of WHEN they will delete you (yesterday again 20k in my Fiji straight up dead, even teammates were wondering about that).

At the same time you get ofc focused by Hipper/Eugen/Graf Spee while you hardly can seem them. If you manage to survive that, which is needed to get the attention of the next DD wave, then you are getting pounded by those. But as i said, its necessary so they wont drop their torpload into your Botfleet, because everyone is camping behind them :cap_old:

 

Why did you remove CVs in most Operations, but leave the GZ in here? Its basicly impossible to get 5 stars with random teammates, as they are too far behind to kill the GZ in time. Might just accept that the average player does not understand objectives. At the same time, some Operations are so frustrating/unworthy to play that they might aswell be removed. I see no reason to play Hermes where i probably can get 3-4 stars with ~1,3k BaseXP. Not even speaking about UF, which is even worse.

Narai is a good benchmark which is Hard but still fun, even when you dont get 5 stars, it doesnt feel frustrating. By playing smart, you can stay alive, get good damage and rewards and win. While Hermes and UF are just a gamble if you can turn the table, because AP bombs can just delete you and you cant do anything against it.

 

- Operations need to be attractive to play even after you finished them, otherwise they will die.

- Attractive means, you must have a good chance to get 5 Stars AND receive reasonable amount of XP.

- They can be hard, but ultimatively it should be fun and not frustrating (AP Bombs are just that).

 

@MrConway maybe you can pass this feedback along?

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I don't have a cap on my Rich at this time (moved him to a t9 ship at some point), but what made it easy was that the bots seemed to totally ignore me.

I kinda could just take the free heal and no healing signal and I'd basically be fine until the last torpy bit (which imo is also the most important part any human BB player must play, to bodyblock for Ruan).

 

Before this, I'd play with Atlanta but that was just a big pain at some point.

It had happened at least twice that (in order to not get focussed by the 4 BBs and melted by them) I actually hid behind Ruan and Ruan would take so much damage from them focussing me, that Ruan died and the mission ended before we even got to the healing part :fish_palm:

 

The bots should focus more on the BBs (instead of basically only focus them when all teammate cruisers would literally hold their fire all the time), as these were actually meant to do so. And it would be more fun and engaging that way.

 

Right now cruisers kinda play Russian Roulette while the BBs basically press W a couple times and then play a game of Shoot The Ducks :Smile-_tongue:

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7 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

Right now cruisers kinda play Russian Roulette while the BBs basically press W a couple times and then play a game of Shoot The Ducks :Smile-_tongue:

100% true - with Richie (secondary build) it is easy and funny (if team is not bunch of total noobs :) )

richelieu-19.jpg

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17 minutes ago, Max_Kammerer said:

100% true - with Richie (secondary build) it is easy and funny (if team is not bunch of total noobs :) )

richelieu-19.jpg

Good idea on the Richy secondary build. May try this out once I farm back some more ecxp since I ran out yesterday :Smile_honoring:

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45 minutes ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I don't have a cap on my Rich at this time (moved him to a t9 ship at some point), but what made it easy was that the bots seemed to totally ignore me.

I kinda could just take the free heal and no healing signal and I'd basically be fine until the last torpy bit (which imo is also the most important part any human BB player must play, to bodyblock for Ruan).

 

Before this, I'd play with Atlanta but that was just a big pain at some point.

It had happened at least twice that (in order to not get focussed by the 4 BBs and melted by them) I actually hid behind Ruan and Ruan would take so much damage from them focussing me, that Ruan died and the mission ended before we even got to the healing part :fish_palm:

 

The bots should focus more on the BBs (instead of basically only focus them when all teammate cruisers would literally hold their fire all the time), as these were actually meant to do so. And it would be more fun and engaging that way.

 

Right now cruisers kinda play Russian Roulette while the BBs basically press W a couple times and then play a game of Shoot The Ducks :Smile-_tongue:

I totally confirm that : bots tend to focus on lowest HP ship so cruisers are their prime targets. So BB can totally avoid damage (save from torpedoes) while cruisers are really playing with the devil all game long.

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15 minutes ago, NoirLotus said:

I totally confirm that : bots tend to focus on lowest HP ship so cruisers are their prime targets. So BB can totally avoid damage (save from torpedoes) while cruisers are really playing with the devil all game long.

Yep, normally I'm playing operations in 95% with RN CLs - Leander, Fiji, Belfast, Perth, sometimes French De Grasse - all are extremely strong (especially Fiji/Leander thx strong combo heal + torps + smoke + hydro). But in Hermes french BBs, especially Richie are kings. Best team is combo of 3-4 Richies, 2 Fijis + 1-2 Algeries or Helenas. Atlanta is very fragile and Richie offers great AA (my record 95 planes down in Hermes). So bringing of Atlanta here is only for Atlanta superunicums... 

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On 8/21/2018 at 5:34 PM, DFens_666 said:

2nd Suggestion:

Those AP Bombs are totaly unbalanced vs Cruisers. Ive seen twice the T1 bombers deal 15k damage to an Indianapolis, while the GZ deal 17k to me in my Fiji. First time atleast he needed 3 runs on me, but the last time, he just straight bombed me to death with 3 bombs (ofc all hitting me), dealing 17k+ damage :cap_old:

They seem to be EXTREMELY hard to evade, and because they are GZ (derpderp) they citadel Cruisers with ease.

Would be hard enough if they would be normal DBs and not AP DBs.

 

Or team up with an AA Atlanta ?

I got 115 planes few days ago :cap_rambo:

( @havaduck )

 

 

But BBs are obviously king in this Op .. that same night we lost all but 3 ships before the first waves were dealt with .. 

2 Richelieus and 1 Gascogne .. and we still managed to get 4 stars :cap_cool: (the Richelieu we needed to protect lost more than 50% of its hp) 

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Only played this Op well with Cruisers (Fiji, Atlanta, Helena etc) as the single Lyon game I played was a mess but I found that a decent AA ship like the Helena/Atlanta makes a huge difference, especially if properly AA specc'd (inc Man AA) but their armour means they are unlikely to last to the end due to the constant targeting by the extremely accurate bots. In fact, having just got the Boise in the Santa set that might become my new Hermes ship just due to the Heal it gets helping out in the last 2-3 minutes, even if the AA is shorter ranged.

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I played it with a specially build Manual AA Manual Secondary build Richilieu. Easy to kill planes and kill ships. Few games ended with 100 plane kills. Its a meme build so not good aside of the OPS

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I played a few Hermes games in an AA-specced Boise, and since I could heal a lot of that grinding-you-down HE damage from destroyers and light cruisers, that was reasonably fun. Then I tried it in the Atlanta, and that was fun as well (hilarious ship!) but I died halfway through to no one's particular surprise. Fast and intense cruiser-action that would have made Gregory Peck proud!

 

Then I tried it in the Lyon. And...

...and it was like sailing an invisible ocean liner through a flock of drugged turkeys. I kept landing these totally devastating salvoes on enemy ships, and they kept ignoring me in order to shoot at some cruiser at least three kilometres further away that was not even firing back at them. I even sent a radio message to the Gneisenau, "Hello Sir, Cpt Honoré in the Free French battleship Lyon here, don't know if you've noticed me but I'm the one who just shot off your for'ard turret, please be so kind as to acknowledge my presence by actually firing some shots at me since this is starting to get embarrassing?" - but all to no effect. I finished that battle with a win and with a barely scraped paintwork. It was hard to look the few bedraggled survivors from the cruiser squadron in the eyes when we met in the mess that evening, I can tell you that.  :Smile_sad:

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2 hours ago, Soemba said:

I played it with a specially build Manual AA Manual Secondary build Richilieu. Easy to kill planes and kill ships. Few games ended with 100 plane kills. Its a meme build so not good aside of the OPS

1 hour ago, Procrastes said:

I played a few Hermes games in an AA-specced Boise, and since I could heal a lot of that grinding-you-down HE damage from destroyers and light cruisers, that was reasonably fun. Then I tried it in the Atlanta, and that was fun as well (hilarious ship!) but I died halfway through to no one's particular surprise. Fast and intense cruiser-action that would have made Gregory Peck proud!

 

Then I tried it in the Lyon. And...

...and it was like sailing an invisible ocean liner through a flock of drugged turkeys. I kept landing these totally devastating salvoes on enemy ships, and they kept ignoring me in order to shoot at some cruiser at least three kilometres further away that was not even firing back at them. I even sent a radio message to the Gneisenau, "Hello Sir, Cpt Honoré in the Free French battleship Lyon here, don't know if you've noticed me but I'm the one who just shot off your for'ard turret, please be so kind as to acknowledge my presence by actually firing some shots at me since this is starting to get embarrassing?" - but all to no effect. I finished that battle with a win and with a barely scraped paintwork. It was hard to look the few bedraggled survivors from the cruiser squadron in the eyes when we met in the mess that evening, I can tell you that.  :Smile_sad:

 

Its a total :etc_swear: joke how BBs are easy mode in that OP. I mean, obviously BBs arent easy enough, must programm aimbot using Bots to only shoot Cruisers. Its really great to see when the 4 BBs spawn in the beginning, and i dont know whom they are targeting, but often when i shoot my first time at them (even when i wait like half a minute) all 4 target me and most of the time 2 shoot instantly at me.

Cant quite tell how is that possible with their BB reload, but it seems that they never shoot BBs only Cruisers?

IF you are the weak Cruisers, you can be furthest target and they still constantly shoot you, its simply wrong :cap_old:

 

4 hours ago, lup3s said:

Or team up with an AA Atlanta ?

 

Dont have one when we play 2x div usually? And i dont think its right that you HAVE to pick a certain ship in order to get 5 stars in a 7 player random match. I can understand that if you want to play certain OPs with 4 guys and you NEED a specific ship to get it done.

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19 hours ago, DFens_666 said:

Dont have one when we play 2x div usually? And i dont think its right that you HAVE to pick a certain ship in order to get 5 stars in a 7 player random match. I can understand that if you want to play certain OPs with 4 guys and you NEED a specific ship to get it done.

 

You don't need an Atlanta to get 5 stars .. you need good BB players

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2 hours ago, lup3s said:

You don't need an Atlanta to get 5 stars .. you need good BB players

 The sad truth. Problem: dont have french BBs. :Smile-_tongue:

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I disagree on the idea that BB are easy mode. For a good player being unable to fulfill your tank role and see your cruiser allies die like flies around you is just as if not more frustrating as being in said cruisers. Once cruisers die and only then, every bot and their mothers finally switch focus to you and lo and behold, without backup you are just as helpless as the cruisers before you. The AI design is an utter failure and it extends to other operations as well.

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1 hour ago, BlackYeti said:

I disagree on the idea that BB are easy mode. For a good player being unable to fulfill your tank role and see your cruiser allies die like flies around you is just as if not more frustrating as being in said cruisers. Once cruisers die and only then, every bot and their mothers finally switch focus to you and lo and behold, without backup you are just as helpless as the cruisers before you. The AI design is an utter failure and it extends to other operations as well.

 

Lets just agree to this: I need you in your Lyon and you need me in my Fiji or Indi.  :Smile_veryhappy:

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3 hours ago, BlackYeti said:

I disagree on the idea that BB are easy mode. For a good player being unable to fulfill your tank role and see your cruiser allies die like flies around you is just as if not more frustrating as being in said cruisers. Once cruisers die and only then, every bot and their mothers finally switch focus to you and lo and behold, without backup you are just as helpless as the cruisers before you. The AI design is an utter failure and it extends to other operations as well.

 

I mean, the problem is, you can just sail full broadside all game long (probably not first in the row), and nothing will attack you. If you have somewhat decent Cruisers and you can aim + RNG luck then its pretty easy in a BB. While in Cruisers you have to work for your damage and not die too soon.

But thats what im saying, the AI is just utter [edited].

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1 minute ago, CptBarney said:

Would the algerie be suitable for said operation? Its the only tier 7 cruiser i have atm.

 

Well, best Cruisers imo are Fiji/Belfast/Atlanta/Indianapolis. That leaves Helena and Algerie and I think Helena is still the better pick, because you want the DPM against the DDs. Thats just my 5cent tho. I always pick Fiji or Indianapolis. Anyway, when your BBs are bad, it doesnt really matter which Cruiser you take, you are screwed either way...

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5 hours ago, CptBarney said:

Would the algerie be suitable for said operation? Its the only tier 7 cruiser i have atm.

Yes, it will.

 

I played Algerie a lot in ops till I elited it.

Only gripe I had was its slow turning turrets. And it being a cruiser, of course :Smile-_tongue:

 

All cruisers should get up to full health halfway this ops, regardless of which cruiser you bring.

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2 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

All cruisers should get up to full health halfway this ops, regardless of which cruiser you bring.

 

The issue is that the multiple DD's and Cruisers targeting you can all pen your armour with HE regardless of which Cruiser you choose, so when you have 4x DD's all shooting at you (8-16 shells every 4secs is like an Atlanta shooting you) your health pool takes a bit hit and that happens twice after you leave the heal point until the finish and doesn't include all the cruiser fire too.

 

I've now got all 3 French BB's allowed in the OP so I might try those next-time alongside the Boise. 

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43 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

 

The issue is that the multiple DD's and Cruisers targeting you can all pen your armour with HE regardless of which Cruiser you choose, so when you have 4x DD's all shooting at you (8-16 shells every 4secs is like an Atlanta shooting you)

Yep, the t7 cruisers have 16mm plating so they get penned even by the T-22

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6 hours ago, IanH755 said:

 

The issue is that the multiple DD's and Cruisers targeting you can all pen your armour with HE regardless of which Cruiser you choose, so when you have 4x DD's all shooting at you (8-16 shells every 4secs is like an Atlanta shooting you) your health pool takes a bit hit and that happens twice after you leave the heal point until the finish and doesn't include all the cruiser fire too.

 

I've now got all 3 French BB's allowed in the OP so I might try those next-time alongside the Boise. 

which is exactly why cruisers need to get up to full strength at the healing part.

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