Team Damage Punishment/Report System

[Warhawk1984]

@MrConway Just had a battle where the battle report really does paint a good picture of why the friendly damage punishment system is so broken and abuse-able.

 

As you can see i did do damage to Allie by him being as blind as a bat and driving into 1 of my torps, fair enough if you damage a friendly you should get pushed.

However if you damage a friendly with a torp from a volley but the rest of said torps from volley hits red ships its kinda clear you wasn't aiming at the friendly.

notice i fired 3 torps all game (1 volley) 1 hit the idiot DD but what about the other 2 torps?

 

there is 1 of them lodged into that kaiser but what about the 3rd torp

 

found it in the side of the karlsrune.

 

How it occurred (edited in) 

effectively the situation was me and a dd where defending cap dd coming back from the right me from the left dd got there first and engaged got spotted and started taking massive damage, i got in range and start hitting the cruiser still the cruiser carried on going for the dd so i went with torps instead because this cruiser is killing this dd hes tracking him fine i need to get rid of this cruiser before this cruiser gets rid of my dd "buddy" 1 hits my target 1 misses but hit the kasier that is right up the cruisers ar*e the other went wide damage done cruiser is now crippled and a 1 shotter bb left at 7k the dd then turns round from full retreat to attack there both easy kills now, he launches torps at the bb while killing the cruiser with a single volley earning him double strike im in the middle of congratulating him when he sails straight into the last torp.

 

apparently its my fault the dd got hit and yes it was i fired them,  but he still chose to go on the attack after he needs to be aware what just caused all that damage.

 

so i fire 1 torp volley hit 3 ships 2 reds and a green and the green was a dd that had all the time in the world to get out the way and i get punished!?, hell if i wanted to i could just drive into friendly torps to be a cu*t to people.

and on top of that people who wasn't even watching the situation just see it saying i did team damage and start chucking in reports, how is this even fair?

[ColonelPete]

Watch where you launch your torps...

 

There is a reason you should not launch torpedos from second line. People should learn that on Tier II.

[DFens_666]

Obviously that guy was between you and the enemies so... you never know IF someone can dodge friendly torps. Im certainly NOT dodging them if i have to show broadside to the enemies. I rather catch the friendly torps, because they will hurt much less than me getting a citadel hit.

Bottom line: Dont throw torps when you might hit one of your own. If you have to, atleast tell them that you are going to do it.

[BeauNidl3]

Sorry to say you need to learn how and most importantly WHEN to fire torpedoes.

 

It is ALWAYS the firers fault if you torpedo an allied ship, you must NEVER fire them if there's a chance you could hit an ally and NEVER fire them from second line.

Destroyers have to manoeuvre extensively to avoid fire or may have the opportunity to do a close torpedo run to delete an enemy whose guns are facing the other way.  

 

If you hit an allied ship with your torpedoes it is NOT the allied ships fault IT IS YOUR FAULT you should get the TK punishment.

 

After 1,980 battles I would have thought you would have learned all this by now.

[Warhawk1984]

quick reply to all above posts

 

nope he was the other side of them them at ~6km  him at the time of launch ~11km he literally sailed towards them i am guessing for a torp run of his own 

 

 

[ColonelPete]

1 minute ago, Warhawk1984 said:

nope he was the other side of them them at ~6km  him at the time of launch ~11km he literally sailed towards them i am guessing for a torp run of his own 

 

 

That is in front of you....

[Episparh]

Just now, Warhawk1984 said:

nope he was the other side of them them at ~6km  him at the time of launch ~11km he literally sailed towards them i am guessing for a torp run of his own 

 

 

Does not matter.

It is your fault if torps hits friendly! 

[Uglesett]

Jeeze. What's the problem?

 

You torped an ally. If it doesn't happen more than once in a blue moon, it's not going to have any significant effect on you. If the pink bothers you, just play a couple of quick coop games and it goes away. 

[Warhawk1984]

7 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That is in front of you....

yes though out my torpdos range hes literally sailing towards them a dd must take responsibility to where there sailing when things are in front of you.  by your logic you may as well remove torps from cruisers as they will always be behind dd's not to mention without the damage the torps did to the other 2 red ships that dd was gonna get wrecked hard

 

left the cruiser at around 300hp the bb 7k allowing said dd to kill both and get double strike.

 

its like he saw my torps hit turned round for some easy kills and runs into the 3rd torp in the process

[Episparh]

1 minute ago, Warhawk1984 said:

yes though out my torpdos range hes literally sailing towards them a dd must take responsibility to where there sailing when things are in front of you.  by your logic you may as well remove torps from cruisers as they will always be behind dd's not to mention without the damage the torps did to the other 2 red ships that dd was gonna get wrecked hard

CAs torps are usually a last resort in a deadlock (with little exception) 

Never the less, the fault is of the one that pulls the trigger not the one who could have dodged. 

 

As soon as you accept that simple fact we will have our game environment improved! 

[Juanx]

8 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

yes though out my torpdos range hes literally sailing towards them a dd must take responsibility to where there sailing when things are in front of you.  by your logic you may as well remove torps from cruisers as they will always be behind dd's not to mention without the damage the torps did to the other 2 red ships that dd was gonna get wrecked hard

 

left the cruiser at around 300hp the bb 7k allowing said dd to kill both and get double strike.

 

its like he saw my torps hit turned round for some easy kills and runs into the 3rd torp in the process

 

You do understand that barely any ship can outrun torpedoes, and in very limited situations?

 

As said, dont torp from second line.

 

Enjoy your pink?

[Warhawk1984]

1 minute ago, Episparh said:

CAs torps are usually a last resort in a deadlock (with little exception) 

Never the less, the fault is of the one that pulls the trigger not the one who could have dodged. 

 

As soon as you accept that simple fact we will have our game environment improved! 

 

the dd was taking constant damage from the cruiser that i left a 1 shotter as far as i was concerned that dd was a gonna if i didn't do something to take out the cruiser, and torps was the only thing i got with the damage potential to do that so yes it kinda was a last resort 

 

and again simply ignore the fact the dd literally turned round 180° for some easy kills that i set up for him

[Profilus]

0 symphaty and emphaty.

[Episparh]

4 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

 

the dd was taking constant damage from the cruiser that i left a 1 shotter as far as i was concerned that dd was a gonna if i didn't do something to take out the cruiser, and torps was the only thing i got with the damage potential to do that so yes it kinda was a last resort 

 

and again simply ignore the fact the dd literally turned round 180° for some easy kills that i set up for him

You are a stubborn person, aren't you? 

 

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR DAMAGING FRIENDLY SHIP! 

 

Say "I am sorry!" and accept your pink fate. 

[Warhawk1984]

really do love the fact you guys completely ignore the fact the dd turned round after the torps hit the red ships and saw they were easy pickings, he chose to turn after the torps had been fired and the reason he chose to turn was because the damage said torps did to red ships how can you justify that. He needs to take responsibility to where he points his ship and be aware of the situation.  

[Warhawk1984]

2 minutes ago, Episparh said:

You are a stubborn person, aren't you? 

 

THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR DAMAGING FRIENDLY SHIP! 

 

Say "I am sorry!" and accept your pink fate. 

always :P

[HMS_Kilinowski]

15 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

As you can see i did do damage to Allie by him being as blind as a bat and driving into 1 of my torps, fair enough if you damage a friendly you should get pushed.

However if you damage a friendly with a torp from a volley but the rest of said torps from volley hits red ships its kinda clear you wasn't aiming at the friendly.

notice i fired 3 torps all game (1 volley) 1 hit the idiot DD but what about the other 2 torps?

There are different perspectives on that. I know most players will have a hardcore opinion about NEVER launching torps when a friendly is within a certain angle.

That is mostly true. You should and can under no circumstances assume that a friendly player has the awareness to see your torps, especially if he has a lot of action going on on the other side of his ship. What did your torps gain? You hit a Kaiser who can pop dcp and heal and a Karlsruhe, that might have died anyway. You killed neither of these ships. That T-22 with a torp hit however is practically out of the game. He might get deleted himself immediately. He cannot go hunt torpedo boats on such low health, he may not even be able to spot for you, risking deletion. In late game, maybe he has to contest a cap against another gunboat, and you loose the game, cause his low hp costs him the duel. So you ruined his game and risked loosing the game, all for a few thousand hp on two ships.

 

Where i differ from most players is, I see a reasonable risk in torping close to friendly ships, if the situation is given. I have seen games lost, because I could not torp a rushing BB, all to not risk a friendly who put himself between me and the target and not getting out of the way after being asked to. That hurts. Sorry, but a low health Belfast that rushes out of his smoke to get deleted in a second, taking your chance to get 6 torps on a full health Tirpitz, that is just painful to accept.

 

In CB I did a lot of second line torping and it proved very effective, when you can coordinate with the ship in front of you. In fact I TKed once in CB,  cause I asked the team member if I can torp, he gave me the go, I told him where, and after half a minute he had forgotten, took a turn and got right into the salvo. But that is "battle conditions" so to speak. It is not about the individual player in CB. You wanna win as a team and that sometimes means a close call. So, different story.

[ColonelPete]

20 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

yes though out my torpdos range hes literally sailing towards them a dd must take responsibility to where there sailing when things are in front of you.  by your logic you may as well remove torps from cruisers as they will always be behind dd's not to mention without the damage the torps did to the other 2 red ships that dd was gonna get wrecked hard

 

left the cruiser at around 300hp the bb 7k allowing said dd to kill both and get double strike.

 

its like he saw my torps hit turned round for some easy kills and runs into the 3rd torp in the process

No, he does not as it were YOUR torps.

I can use the torps on my cruisers just fine, without hitting friendlies. Thank you.

 

Grow up and take responsibility for your action!

[Uglesett]

5 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Where i differ from most players is, I see a reasonable risk in torping close to friendly ships, if the situation is given.

Taking a calculated risk and once in a blue moon torping an ally isn't really a problem, though. You'll go pink for a few games, but it's not going to have any long term effect on you. 

 

Going pink once in a while isn't a problem. And it shouldn't be viewed as one. It's a small reminder that, ok, that one was shaving it a bit close, and then getting on with the game. As long as you avoid consistently damaging allies, the team damage penalty is never going to be an actual problem for you. At worst it's mildly embarrassing. 

 

And that's my point to the OP: Suck it up. It's going to go away soon, and it's not actually doing anything significant.

[Episparh]

5 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

Where i differ from most players is, I see a reasonable risk in torping close to friendly ships, if the situation is given.

I do agree that you may take a risk/chance. 

However, you should accept the consequences whatever they are. Blaming others for doing friendly damage is not the way this game needs. 

[Quetak]

warn allies by pinging on minimap and type in chat warning that your torps are going there. Second line torping isnt good but when you ping and warn most allies will notice it and dodge. At least its my experience when Im sending torps which can hit ally in some way. I hadnt top hit to ally for more that year despite sending second line torps from time to time.  

[Warhawk1984]

16 minutes ago, HMS_Kilinowski said:

There are different perspectives on that. I know most players will have a hardcore opinion about NEVER launching torps when a friendly is within a certain angle.

That is mostly true. You should and can under no circumstances assume that a friendly player has the awareness to see your torps, especially if he has a lot of action going on on the other side of his ship. What did your torps gain? You hit a Kaiser who can pop dcp and heal and a Karlsruhe, that might have died anyway. You killed neither of these ships. That T-22 with a torp hit however is practically out of the game. He might get deleted himself immediately. He cannot go hunt torpedo boats on such low health, he may not even be able to spot for you, risking deletion. In late game, maybe he has to contest a cap against another gunboat, and you loose the game, cause his low hp costs him the duel. So you ruined his game and risked loosing the game, all for a few thousand hp on two ships.

 

Where i differ from most players is, I see a reasonable risk in torping close to friendly ships, if the situation is given. I have seen games lost, because I could not torp a rushing BB, all to not risk a friendly who put himself between me and the target and not getting out of the way after being asked to. That hurts. Sorry, but a low health Belfast that rushes out of his smoke to get deleted in a second, taking your chance to get 6 torps on a full health Tirpitz, that is just painful to accept.

 

In CB I did a lot of second line torping and it proved very effective, when you can coordinate with the ship in front of you. In fact I TKed once in CB,  cause I asked the team member if I can torp, he gave me the go, I told him where, and after half a minute he had forgotten, took a turn and got right into the salvo. But that is "battle conditions" so to speak. It is not about the individual player in CB. You wanna win as a team and that sometimes means a close call. So, different story.

effectively the situation was me and a dd where defending cap dd coming back from the right me from the left dd got there first and engaged got spotted and started taking massive damage, i got in range and start hitting the cruiser still the cruiser carried on going for the dd so i went with torps instead because this cruiser is killing this dd hes tracking him fine i need to get rid of this cruiser before this cruiser gets rid of my dd "buddy" 1 hits my target 1 misses but hit the kasier that is right up the cruisers ar*e the other went wide damage done cruiser is now crippled and a 1 shotter bb left at 7k the dd then turns round from full retreat to attack there both easy kills now, he launches torps at the bb while killing the cruiser with a single volley earning him double strike im in the middle of congratulating him when he sails straight into the last torp.

 

apparently its my fault the dd got him and yes it was i fired them but he still chose to go on the attack after he needs to be aware what just caused all that damage    

[Hybria]

Hitting a DD to get torphits on a cruiser and a BB is usally not worth it.

 

Its totaly fine if you kill a 10k HP overextended BB that is dead anyway in half a minute if you take out 2 DDs for it - the system will punish you anyway.

Striked a full HP Bismarck to obvilion that "brawled" a poor 5000 HP cruiser ... the cruiser ate one stray torp. I enjoyed 5 pink games, the compliment from the guy i team killed and the win.

 

You can "trade" on team kills like you can trade your HP - but your trade was simply no benefit to win i guess.

 

And the system wont care if you made a good trade for a victory - and you should not care too.

A pink victory is a victory. 

 

I guess i had like 2-3 of this "worth it to hit my team mate too" cases in my last 1.000 batlles and that is with a CV that gets there easier than most other classes.

If you "team kill" someone twice a week ... thats not good ;)

 

[eliastion]

50 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

As you can see i did do damage to Allie by him being as blind as a bat and driving into 1 of my torps, fair enough if you damage a friendly you should get pushed.

However if you damage a friendly with a torp from a volley but the rest of said torps from volley hits red ships its kinda clear you wasn't aiming at the friendly.

 

You misunderstand a VERY basic concept.

You're not punished for purposefully damaging/killing an ally. If the game assumed that you meant it, the punishments would be much more severe. You're punished for being careless and endangering allies this way. I'd lie saying that I never launch potentially risky torps so I won't be a hypocrite and claim that "you should never ever launch a spread when there's a theoretical possibility of an ally getting hit". What you need to accept, however, is that whether it's carelessness or a calculated risk, you're responsible for your torps. You can't expect allies to watch their back for your torps. You can't expect them to change course to let your torps through. You can't even expect them to stay on their current course - they have their own problems and while most (if they notice) are going to try and dodge "friendly" torps, they shouldn't be forced to divert their attention to what should be their support rather than an additional threat.

 

Long story short: almost everyone who plays DDs or even cruisers with good torps might find themselves planting a torp in an ally once in a while. But it's your job to make sure that the "while" is as long as possible AND it's your responsibility to take the pinkness like a man. You torped an ally, you deserve to be pink. Unless you're notoriously careless, it should fade away LONG before this happens again. The real punishment starts only when you do it again, quickly and spectacularly enough to get orange and be relegated to coops for some time.

[Profilus]

4 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

apparently its my fault

It is unless you manage to prove otherwise with replay. Must be my kind of a**hole to run into your torps deliberately.