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RAHJAILARI

HEPL!!! Ernst Gaede, playing tips anyone?

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I have had Gaede for a long while now, but did not play it much so far (since focusing on IJN ships first) however last weekend I decided to take her out for a spin or 2 and the results were predictably disastrous. Well, obviously she does not play like any IJN ship, so i ditched the torpedo-boat playstyle and tried to be a LOT more aggressive with it. I had a few quite decent games to be sure, but much more utter disasters due to excessive Potato-ing by myself. :Smile_facepalm:

 

So I guess, before calling upon any further humiliations upon myself, I should perhaps consult the wiser minds in this forum on some tips. below my setup and capt'n skillset at the moment for your information and improvement suggestions::Smile_honoring:

 

Ship Upgrades) Main Armament Mod1, Steering Gears Mod 1, Smoke generator Mod 1 & Steering Gears Mod 2

Modules) 150mm guns, B hull, upgraded Torps & Fire Control

Captain Skills, 19 points dedicated Captain on board) Preventive maintenance, Expert Marksman, Smoke Screen Expert, Survivability Expert, Demolition Expert, Concealment Expert & Radio Location.

 

So basically, how I try to play her is as mainly a cap contester or if several other (and stealthier) DD's on our side, then backup their efforts staying about 1km behind the leading DD. Then using hydro to spot enemy DD, if there is smoke, unless we have radars, then I leave it to them and just shoot at other DD's and try to torp stuff. Smokes first, then closest enemy Cruisers or BB in this order. If spotted, I lay smoke and bravely run away until not spotted, then make a U-turn and return to front - Repeat.:cap_look:

 

Observations:

1) Guns fire quite slowly, so I have considered taking Adrenaline Rush instead of Smoke Screen Expert instead. This is also a problem, when in a knife fight with other DD's.

2) Concealment is just ba-a-aad (well, compared to my IJN DD's anyway), which kinda makes you an instant target for any nearby enemy Cruiser(s). Practice improves my dodging skills tho.

3) It does make a quite decent torpedo-boat, especially if enemies keep coming towards or stay parallel to you tho. However, any enemy DD in vicinity is bound to spoil you fun by spotting you at rather inopportune moments.

4) Speed is average, but Sierra Mike helps a lot in this regard. I also use Juliet Whiskey (flooding) and Juliet charlie (detonation) flag in nearly every game.

5) I have tried to approach caps in cover of an island(s) for as long a possible to compensate for the poor concealment, however this will inevitably lead to sudden critical situations once I get there and bump into the enemy DD at very close range and I won't always come out on top. Also has the negative effect of not being able to spot approaching enemy Cruisers or BB, which is equally bad for my backup. Perhaps just stay out of cover so i can spot instead?

6) Being able to get a citadel or 2 with the AP on Cruisers is definitely a bonus but of limited utility, as you don't really want to be dueling them in the first place. So I'm still unsure which is the better gun choice?

 

So what'cha think oh ye o' mighty and exceedingly wise? Any thoughts? :Smile_Default:

wise.jpg.bf6db54d9c1393d4cf5f203c16a264f5.jpg

 

 

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33 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Ship Upgrades) Main Armament Mod1, Steering Gears Mod 1, Smoke generator Mod 1 & Steering Gears Mod 2

 

Im playing my Gaede with Engine mod 1 & 2 and Aiming system mod. I find it more usefull to be able to accelerate fast.

 

About the guns: Im really undecided. The smaller ones are nice to hunt down DD, thus useful in early game. The 150mm are super firestarters. I can stack DoT mid-game and end-game very easy this way. So yea, I share observation no1 and no6 are true. If fighting against DDs is a huge problem for you, maybe you should try the 128mm guns.

 

My trick with german DDs is this: Push the cap aggressive, if you have back-up. If you find enemy DD, rush him. If he shoots his guns or smokes up: perfect. He just made himself visible for your team (they should be in spotting range for that to work).Go so close, that he is in your hydro range. you can even smoke up yourself and kill him from your own smoke. If he bails: push him right away. If you can keep his smoke screen between him and you, your hydro will spot him and you are still undetected. This works better on higher-tier-german-DDs tho with increasing hydrorange. With Gaede its tricky but it often give you enough advantage to win the fight while taking only limited damage.

 

Once the enemy DDs are gone, I usualy switch my role to a hybrid. At this, Gaede (with 150mm guns) is better then the US counterpart. Nice range torps for that tier make BBs pretty easy targets. I usualy only smoke up after I pulled the DCP of a BB and then dakka-dakka him for permafire.

 

42 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

I have tried to approach caps in cover of an island(s) for as long a possible to compensate for the poor concealment, however this will inevitably lead to sudden critical situations once I get there and bump into the enemy DD at very close range and I won't always come out on top. Also has the negative effect of not being able to spot approaching enemy Cruisers or BB, which is equally bad for my backup. Perhaps just stay out of cover so i can spot instead?

 

I try to stay in the open in the begining, exactly for the reason, to provide spot for my team. If they scare the enemy Cruisers away, I have more chances to win the upcoming fight with a DD.

 

 

 

 

 

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You need to be close to your support because yours dpm ids meh. Do not overextended. Longer you live more you can do. Later high salvo impact can finish weakened enemies. If enemy DD will catch you by surprise using island do smoke and hydro trick. Agree on ditching smoke expert in favour of AR. Just keep playing and you will be better. Or get premium version :cap_haloween:

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Oh, one more addition, that I run on all my Gunboat-DDs: Im playing it with 9,9 km firerange, im not runing the gunrange-upgrade. The reason is easy: Lets say I knife-fight a DD and kill him. If there is any enemy ship within 9,9 to 10,9 km, I will stay detected for 20 sec. No enemy ship in that area: Im stealth right away. You would be surprised how often that is the case! Also, in mid-game, I can position myself next to an island with an Enemy in the open at 9,9 km+ and shoot an other enemy over the island = not detected. It gives you a lot of freedom and safety and the only thing you lose, is beeing able to shoot at BBs from your smoke over the range of 9,9 km. Not that big of a deal.

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31 minutes ago, ForlornSailor said:

Oh, one more addition, that I run on all my Gunboat-DDs: Im playing it with 9,9 km firerange, im not runing the gunrange-upgrade. The reason is easy: Lets say I knife-fight a DD and kill him. If there is any enemy ship within 9,9 to 10,9 km, I will stay detected for 20 sec. No enemy ship in that area: Im stealth right away. You would be surprised how often that is the case! Also, in mid-game, I can position myself next to an island with an Enemy in the open at 9,9 km+ and shoot an other enemy over the island = not detected. It gives you a lot of freedom and safety and the only thing you lose, is beeing able to shoot at BBs from your smoke over the range of 9,9 km. Not that big of a deal.

Aaaa! :Smile_great: Have never thought of that in this case TBH, which is rather strange, since I have not taken the AFT for most of my DD's for exactly this reason.  A good point, I might actually consider doing the same for some of my IJN DD's too... :cap_hmm:

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Position is everything. In DDs like Gaede you do best on the weaker flank of your team, where an enemy push is likely. Don't hesitate to reposition accordingly at the start. Obviously this helps with your torp success rate, but also when it comes to enemy DDs. They will get yelled at a lot to effing spot you... Use that to your advantage, try to control where engagements happen - bait enemy DDs into over-extending so you can take them on closer to your support than theirs.

 

As for capping: At mid tier the hydro isn't really strong enough to bully caps like a Z-52, but at least you have less radars to deal with usually. Nevertheless, don't throw away your ship for nothing. What good is a cap, that your team is unlikely to hold anyway? The longer you stay alive in a DD, the more valuable you become. Right at the start caps aren't all that important, not in random battles anyway, so only go for early caps, if the situation is skewed heavily in your favour. Generally words of wisdom, even more so in rather clumsy DDs like Gaede.

 

ForlornSailor's point about gun range is very valid btw.

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Gaede is a bit of an odd duck among her (or his, since it's german and named after a guy) peers. On the one hand, you have hydro and a lot of HP, which makes you think you should rush caps early on. On the other hand, you concealment and DPM are rather mediocre and you're a very large target, so you're relatively easy to punish for a mistake. Gaede doesnt like focusfire...

I like to, as you said you try to do, play a supporting role on a cap early on - your high alpha damage volleys are very helpful in that if your aim is good. Later on, when things have thinned out a bit, you can still use your plentiful HP pool to go hunt down DDs that then hopefully won't have their entire fleet behind them.

As for the build, a few thoughts. Dont take these as gospel, just my perspective and maybe food for thought.

  • Priority Target, a.k.a. Tingling Spideysenses, is veeeeery helpful to judge how much trouble you're really in right now - are the cruisers and BBs back there aiming at you? Does that enemy have support nearby that you can't see? Etcetera. Preventative Maintenance is by no means a bad choice, but... well, for me, information above everything!
  • Error 404 Last Stand not found? What? You're a DD....
  • I personally don't value Smoke Screen Expert in the slightest, especially in the german DD line that already has very poor smokes to begin with. Take Adrenaline Rush instead - again, lots of HP to play with!
  • Whether you need Expert Marksman comes down to personal preference... 
  • Demo Expert on the 150mm Guns doesnt really do all that much since you already have a 12% base fire chance and very low rate of fire. I'd consider taking Torp Armament Expertise or Supernintendo instead...

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15 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:
  • Error 404 Last Stand not found? What? You're a DD..
  • Whether you need Expert Marksman comes down to personal preference... 
  • Demo Expert on the 150mm Guns doesnt really do all that much since you already have a 12% base fire chance and very low rate of fire. I'd consider taking Torp Armament Expertise or Supernintendo instead...

Yeah, these 3 specifically I have been reconsidering actually... I do not remember how of for what ship (if any, he could have just been in reserve. Had Gaede for a long time, but did not play much until now) I originally skilled this fellow and decided not to change them before some further consultations.:cap_book:

 

But yeah, Last Stand seems quite obvious pick tho (totally forgot about that actually, old age an dementia you know). Could of course, just take Adrenaline Rush instead of Expert Marksman, since the guns kinda fire slowly anyway so I guess very fast turret traverse might be superfluous. I have thought of Superintendent actually. That 1 extra smoke to shoot from does sound awfully tempting....:cap_hmm:

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1 hour ago, RAHJAILARI said:

and tried to be a LOT more aggressive with it

That's your first mistake right there. As Tyrendian said, you don't want focus fire - so DON'T be (one of the) first ones detected, cause you take way too much damage. People for some reason think they must go hyper with german DDs because hydro. Don't. One unlucky BB AP on you and you can go play max range torpedo spammer all game.

 

Good to let someone more sneaky than you go first, and support. Be careful until the BBs are spotted, as well as the most dangerous cruisers. With your 150's, which I took too, you can keep quite some distance shooting DDs, if your aim is on point. With those guns you don't want to brawl anyway.

 

1 hour ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Then using hydro to spot enemy DD, if there is smoke

With Gaede, your hydro is defensive in the first place. Hydro rush only if the DD you want to rush isn't too dangerous and has no support nearby.

 

1 hour ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Ship Upgrades) Main Armament Mod1, Steering Gears Mod 1, Smoke generator Mod 1 & Steering Gears Mod 2

Modules) 150mm guns, B hull, upgraded Torps & Fire Control

Captain Skills, 19 points dedicated Captain on board) Preventive maintenance, Expert Marksman, Smoke Screen Expert, Survivability Expert, Demolition Expert, Concealment Expert & Radio Location.

Eh?

You certainly like smoke stuff.

Dump the Smoke screen expert for last stand immediately please.

The Smoke generator mod on a German DD? Err... Have no idea, but it seems uninteresting at first sight. You could go for main battery mod two instead, if you have trouble with the turret speed and dump expert marksman.

Demo expert is meh at best.

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2 hours ago, Saiyko said:

That's your first mistake right there. As Tyrendian said, you don't want focus fire - so DON'T be (one of the) first ones detected, cause you take way too much damage. People for some reason think they must go hyper with german DDs because hydro. Don't. One unlucky BB AP on you and you can go play max range torpedo spammer all game.

 

Good to let someone more sneaky than you go first, and support. Be careful until the BBs are spotted, as well as the most dangerous cruisers. With your 150's, which I took too, you can keep quite some distance shooting DDs, if your aim is on point. With those guns you don't want to brawl anyway.

 

With Gaede, your hydro is defensive in the first place. Hydro rush only if the DD you want to rush isn't too dangerous and has no support nearby.

 

Eh?

You certainly like smoke stuff.

Dump the Smoke screen expert for last stand immediately please.

The Smoke generator mod on a German DD? Err... Have no idea, but it seems uninteresting at first sight. You could go for main battery mod two instead, if you have trouble with the turret speed and dump expert marksman.

Demo expert is meh at best.

Yupp, have found out all these playing points quite to my expense already. Hehehe!:Smile_Default:

 

Well, as for the captain build. Those skills are the ones I skilled originally some 2 years ago and have no clue for which ship or why. Just checking here first for suggestions before I re-skill him, in order to avoid too many repeated re-skills. :Smile_honoring:

 

As for the smoke-thingy I had one and decided to test it in Gaede, since the smoke last very short time and I wanted to see if it would be useful here (nope, does not look like that much tho - Mebbe put it somewhere else).:cap_hmm:

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Got ot back today after long time just for occasional spin got the upgrades on it (including 150mm guns) plan to go with main armaments mod then hydro mod maybe smoke or possible also main armaments mod and engine acceleration for cap skills i have pt, ls, se, ce, de for next points probably ar and after that i ll think about the rest maybe radar Location

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I personally went 128mm, since I like to play it as a dominator of caps and dd hunter. The 128mm dps is nice, and with the hydro its strong. If your really struggling play it with a dd that has better concealment, like a fushin or a fubuki, and just dominate. 

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6 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Well, as for the captain build. Those skills are the ones I skilled originally some 2 years ago and have no clue for which ship or why. Just checking here first for suggestions before I re-skill him, just to avoid too many repeated re-skills. :Smile_honoring:

Just realized I didn't give any alternatives.

 

Essentials are Last Stand - Surv Exp - Concealment which gives ten with some one pointer (be it PT or PM)

 

RPF for germans still is good, you could do without - depends on playstyle and confidence.

 

Given your preferences I'd say

 

1 pt PM or PT

2 pt LS + AR

3 pt Surv exp + Super

4 CE + RPF

 

if you'd ditch RPF, you could take additionally  Torp Armament Exp + ( PT or PM )

 

 

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40 minutes ago, VeryHonarbrah said:

I personally went 128mm, since I like to play it as a dominator of caps and dd hunter. The 128mm dps is nice, and with the hydro its strong. If your really struggling play it with a dd that has better concealment, like a fushin or a fubuki, and just dominate. 

Yeah, I'm still rather undecided on the gun caliber actually. I have taken the 150mm purely because it seemed like it is the main "thing" that would make this ship special (well there is the hydro too tho). So basically, I have no good rational gameplay reason for my gun choice at all. But to think of it now - If I really want to be effective, as cap contester / close support, the DPM of 128mm might work better in combination with hydro for that purpose, while on the other hand the 150mm might be better in late game against other targets...:cap_hmm:

 

Ohh, the agony of choice... :Smile-angry:

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9 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Yeah, I'm still rather undecided on the gun caliber actually. I have taken the 150mm purely because it seemed like it is the main "thing" that would make this ship special (well there is the hydro too tho). But I have also thought that if I really want to be effective, as cap contester / close support, the DPM of 128mm might work better in combination with hydro for that purpose, while on the other hand the 150mm might be better in late game against other targets...:cap_hmm:

 

Ohh, the agony of choice... :Smile-angry:

don't be fooled - you have pretty much exactly the same HE DPM with both sets of guns, you just trade rate of fire for alpha strikes. And if your aim is good, I personally consider the latter more valuable in a DD vs DD engagement. The 128mm guns do have a decent chunk of extra DPM on the AP rounds, but that'll pretty much be limited to nailing a broadsiding cruiser/BB from smoke, and the 150s do that decently as well due to their massively higher pen.

 

One little note, if you've been active in Clan Battles at all don't forget there will likely be a free captain reset soontm since Season 3 just ended. If you want to save a few hundred dubloons, you can wait for that - it's not like your current build made the ship completely unplayable...

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10 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

One little note, if you've been active in Clan Battles at all don't forget there will likely be a free captain reset soontm since Season 3 just ended. If you want to save a few hundred dubloons, you can wait for that - it's not like your current build made the ship completely unplayable...

Hheheheh! For that to happen, I'd have to make 6 clones of myself first (not that I'm necessarily opposed to cloning such obvious masculine perfection, of course).:Smile_Default:

 

Our clan is called ONE2 for a good reason, you see... Simply because we only have 1 or 2 guys who actually bother to play this game on regular basis. :cap_like:

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41 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Essentials are Last Stand - Surv Exp - Concealment which gives ten with some one pointer (be it PT or PM)

 

RPF for germans still is good, you could do without - depends on playstyle and confidence.

 

Given your preferences I'd say

 

1 pt PM or PT

2 pt LS + AR

3 pt Surv exp + Super

4 CE + RPF

 

if you'd ditch RPF, you could take additionally  Torp Armament Exp + ( PT or PM )

 

Its true, the german DD line offers a few choices on the captains build. Also depending, which guns you prefer to use. Radio is nice, Torpedo Armament Exp also very good pick, since the Torps hit hard.

 

You could add: It depends if you plan on playing solo or playing in a Division. I say that much: Im playing a lot of T7-Division and one of our guys has a Fiji with Radio. :Smile_hiding: That can be absolutly hilarious. With good communication and when you know the people you play with, the DD doesnt need RPF.

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1 hour ago, RAHJAILARI said:

As for the smoke-thingy I had one and decided to test it in Gaede, since the smoke last very short time and I wanted to see if it would be useful here (nope, does not look like that much tho - Mebbe put is somewhere else).:cap_hmm:

If by "smoke-thingy" you mean that special upgrade which extends the duration of your smoke consumable, then you should use it on one of those ships that have a special, 'moving smoke'. Only the Perth, the Huang He and the Haida currently have this, as far as I know.

 

How the moving smoke works and why it works so well with the special smoke upgrade

 

'Normal smoke' works so that you emit smoke for a rather limited number of seconds, and then the smoke stays in place for another (larger) number of seconds until it dissipates. The special smoke upgrade extends only the number of seconds during which you emit smoke, but not how long the smoke stays afterward. Thus, using it on a ship with normal smoke only means that your initial smoke cloud will be a bit bigger (as long as you keep moving while you are laying the smoke). It won't last very much longer, though.

 

'Moving smoke' works so that you, for a rather large number of seconds, emit continuous puffs of smoke that evaporate after a few seconds. The smoke cloud will remain very tiny, hiding only you (and perhaps one or two allies if you huddle together), but it will follow you around and keep you covered as long as you don't move quicker than 12,5 knots.  Using the special smoke upgrade on a ship with moving smoke will significantly extend the time you can remain smoked up, since you will keep emitting smoke for many more seconds.

 

If you want to stack the odds even more in your favour, do feel free to slap on that special hydro upgrade which extends the duration of your hydro. It generally works well on any ship with a hydro, of course, but if you mount it on a ship that also has the (extended) moving smoke, the synergy effect is just filthy good. You can sail around inside your little puff of smoke like an invisible ninja god of war, fearing neither gunfire, torpedoes nor bombs, and only radar - or hydro even stronger than your own - can really pop your bubble until your consumables run out.*

 

 

* Disclaimer: This is a slight exaggeration. A skilled enemy that knows how to target enemies in smoke, or can judge when best to rush your smoke cloud, can also pop your bubble.**

** Or they can just sail outside your hydro range and wait you out. Then you will become a blind, invisible ninja god of war. Unless you are currently capping - in which case you can spend your bubble time writing gently teasing haiku poetry to your enemies in all-chat - this is less than ideal. Be sure to try and time your bubbles so that your enemies remain spotted by someone other than you.

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15 hours ago, ForlornSailor said:

You could add: It depends if you plan on playing solo or playing in a Division. I say that much: Im playing a lot of T7-Division and one of our guys has a Fiji with Radio. :Smile_hiding: That can be absolutly hilarious. With good communication and when you know the people you play with, the DD doesnt need RPF.

Two RPFs in a division can triangulate exact positions though.

 

On the gun question: on Z23 at tier 8 you'll likely take the bigger guns anyway, so you might as well get used to them.

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2 hours ago, tenacious_torps said:

On the gun question: on Z23 at tier 8 you'll likely take the bigger guns anyway, so you might as well get used to them.

Yupp, kinda my thoughts on the matter so far. I have researched her already just not bought yet, as I figgered it might be  better to learn to Gaede first.:Smile_Default:

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Personally... Priority Target, Last Stand, Superintendent, Concealment Expert.

 

Gaede is a punisher of a ship - her torp spreads are very difficult for her opponents to avoid, and her heavier guns and AP shells are very effective if you can target an opponent who has overextended themselves. I wouldn't go charging into caps and into knife fights as stock, though, as you'll probably find yourself engaging someone who has a particular advantage over you - reload, torp range, concealment - which will make it a short and unpleasant experience. Best choices are to try and get your concealment down to a figure which will just about enable you to stealth torp or (more properly) to rope-a-dope; fire your torps from stealth, then engage the enemy with guns. Generally they'll get over-excited and chase you or drop smoke and hide... right in the path of the torpedoes you just fired. 

 

 

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A lot has been said (tl;dr). What I noticed is you jumped straight into T6 without building up any experience in the German DD line. So perhaps there is part of your problem. AFAIK German DDs are hybrids. My DD playstyle is torpedo focussed as well. And I think I did fine in the line. That is until Z46.

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17 minutes ago, Ferry_25 said:

A lot has been said (tl;dr). What I noticed is you jumped straight into T6 without building up any experience in the German DD line. So perhaps there is part of your problem. AFAIK German DDs are hybrids. My DD playstyle is torpedo focussed as well. And I think I did fine in the line. That is until Z46.

A good observation, yes I did that. I only wanted the most unique ships for myself, not the entire line and it seemed to me that Gaede and the Z-23 are the 2 to fit that bill the best. So yeah, I will have to learn a whole new playstyle now so some hiccups were to be expected. Gaede is my practice ship, once I've cracked it sufficiently (some 500-750 games should do it) I will move on to Z-23 and stop there (I do not intend to get all of them, just these 2).:Smile_Default:

 

My original intention in WoWs was just to get the Japanese ships and nothing else (always been an IJN fan) but since then I kinda got got infected by a "Mission Creep" and add a few premiums received from somewhere and also discovered some other interesting historical ships and so now I find myself having a few German, French, USN and even Russian ships on the side (no British, as I was put off by the gimmickry, but I might try 1 or 2 later on). I only keep the historical ones tho, a silly little rule I made for myself just to keep things in perspective. Hehehe! :cap_old:

 

Although that rule has inexplicably led to an overabundance of Tier 6 and 8 ships, when compared to others. :cap_wander_2:

 

 

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Hmm i dont see the german dd line up to t5 preparing you for gaede and upwards whatsoever, completly different playstyle if u ask me

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