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Gojuadorai

T9&10 incoming balance desaster

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ill try to make this short so please dont try to pic on things that are result up neccesary simplification of the issue...

 

- WG releasing 2 DD lines that can royally screw  most CAs in gunfights

- they do so on top of a already spammy CA line which creates a horrible environment for classic DD lines

- they are discussing nerfing the only real counter CA's have to those DD's (Radar) cause of whiny comunity

 

My prediction, a domino effect:

- incentive to play classic DD's will drop

- incentive to play most CAs will drop

- thereby incentive to play BB's will drop although numbers wont suffer as much 

- result? stale Meta where only(mostly) the ships will be played that can soemwhat deal with this degenerated meta on their own 

 

=> Diversity wont increase but decrease and meta will be annoyingly spamy

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- Add Stalingrad to that which can feast on Cruisers aswell.

 

Not sure if amount of BBs will drop, i rather feel its the other way round, since they are atleast tankier than CAs. Not everyone likes DD gameplay, so instead of Cruisers i see them rather switching to BBs. Or lowtiers. Or quit the game when it really gets too bad.

 

On another note:

*waiting for the flamers because of Radar <-> DD remark* :cap_popcorn:

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3 minutes ago, Boris_MNE said:

Tbh they can always nerf uber penetration of Harugumo and gg.

 

Giving those 100mm the 1/4 HE pen, makes the low -1% penalty on firechance for low caliber IFHE very questionable. 

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10 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

ill try to make this short so please dont try to pic on things that are result up neccesary simplification of the issue...

 

- WG releasing 2 DD lines that can royally screw  most CAs in gunfights

- they do so on top of a already spammy CA line which creates a horrible environment for classic DD lines

- they are discussing nerfing the only real counter CA's have to those DD's (Radar) cause of whiny comunity

 

My prediction, a domino effect:

- incentive to play classic DD's will drop

- incentive to play most CAs will drop

- thereby incentive to play BB's will drop although numbers wont suffer as much 

- result? stale Meta where only(mostly) the ships will be played that can soemwhat deal with this degenerated meta on their own 

 

=> Diversity wont increase but decrease and meta will be annoyingly spamy

 

So basically, "the game is dying-going to die next patch" all over again?

 

Is it not boring?

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Just now, Juanx said:

 

So basically, "the game is dying-going to die next patch" all over again?

 

Is it not boring?

 

 

I defo need you as my deputy. You cant refuse this , not from me.

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1 minute ago, DFens_666 said:

Not sure if amount of BBs will drop, i rather feel its the other way round, since they are atleast tankier than CAs.

 

two things to remark:

 

-  if you have only other bbs and DDs to shoot at its not really exciting

-  youl get burned a lot


thats why i said not so much  as CAs

i kinda wonder which BBs will still be played  probably the most HE resistant ones  and maybe conq cause having he loaded and beeing able to heal fire is appealing in that meta
 

but BBs arent the main point of argument

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5 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

ill try to make this short so please dont try to pic on things that are result up neccesary simplification of the issue...

 

- WG releasing 2 DD lines that can royally screw  most CAs in gunfights

- they do so on top of a already spammy CA line which creates a horrible environment for classic DD lines

- they are discussing nerfing the only real counter CA's have to those DD's (Radar) cause of whiny comunity

 

My prediction, a domino effect:

- incentive to play classic DD's will drop

- incentive to play most CAs will drop

- thereby incentive to play BB's will drop although numbers wont suffer as much 

- result? stale Meta where only(mostly) the ships will be played that can soemwhat deal with this degenerated meta on their own 

 

=> Diversity wont increase but decrease and meta will be annoyingly spamy

 

Am I the only one who gets the feeling that this sounds like a very faint "PLX BUFF CRUISERS!" ?

But tinfoil aside...

 

Don't know what game you played but since they removed stealth fire the only viable Meta IS spamming in general, spamming HE Shells and spamming Radar.

And after the current CW Season is concluded my opinion on that is only reinforced.

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1 minute ago, Boris_MNE said:

 

 

I defo need you as my deputy. You cant refuse this , not from me.

 

We will discuss this over some nice dinner, that you will pay, then we will plan the world takeover our common business.

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2 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

So basically, "the game is dying-going to die next patch" all over again?

 

Is it not boring?

 

well this is the first time i really see something going horribly wrong....

 and i never said the game is  going to die cause it isnt!

just that the pretty good diversity of T10  IS GOING TO DIE (instead of getting more diverse by adding new ships)

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1 minute ago, Gojuadorai said:

i kinda wonder which BBs will still be played  probably the most HE resistant ones  and maybe conq cause having he loaded and beeing able to heal fire is appealing in that meta

 

Russian BBs. Because they will get the Oktobirskaya-DCP.

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4 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

ill try to make this short so please dont try to pic on things that are result up neccesary simplification of the issue...

 

- WG releasing 2 DD lines that can royally screw  most CAs in gunfights

- they do so on top of a already spammy CA line which creates a horrible environment for classic DD lines

- they are discussing nerfing the only real counter CA's have to those DD's (Radar) cause of whiny comunity

 

- They can do so only if they use IFHE because even with 1/4, Kitakaze and Haragumo can't pen 25-27mm of armour of any T8-T10 cruisers but RN CLs. There are several other factors like

  • those two DDs have worse concealment than any other classic DD, not counting here SU DDs, especially Haragumo
  • they are quite big and less maneuverable than other classic DDs and way more easier target to all BBs, CA/CLs and even CVs
  • in the end they are silver ships which means if they become to powerful they could always be nerfed

- Spammy CA/CL are bad for classic DDs only because there is so many means to spot them, in first place by radar

- This wouldn't be a problem if WG could restrain themselves from giving radar quite easily to new and old ships. While it is true that part of community overblow effect of radar it is still undeniable that they are impacting high tier games more and more. Seeing 4 to 5 radar ships or ships that could potentially have radar becoming more and more common.

 

4 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

 

My prediction, a domino effect:

- incentive to play classic DD's will drop

- incentive to play most CAs will drop

- thereby incentive to play BB's will drop although numbers wont suffer as much 

- result? stale Meta where only(mostly) the ships will be played that can soemwhat deal with this degenerated meta on their own 

 

- I doubt that. Kitakaze and Haragumo will never reach popularity of Shima and other classic DDs.

- Again I doubt. These two ships won't make DM, Hindy or Zao less desirable ships as, when played correctly, all of them could counter them.

- BBs so far survived all the WG throw at them. I doubt this will change that.

- So no. Meta might temporarily change but it will return to its usual after some time.

 

4 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

 

=> Diversity wont increase but decrease and meta will be annoyingly spamy

 

Maybe for couple of weeks there will be more Kitakaze and Haragumo in queue but soon this will return to "normal" meta we have now. They are not easy ships to play and definitely not for everybody. And as soon as RN DDs would be released they number will drop in favour of new ships. And I doubt that Kitakaze and Haragumo will impact the game in any sense worse than sstaligrad or new T10 Alsace will. after all I'll never worry too much about silver ships as I said before thay can always be nerfed.

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9 minutes ago, fumtu said:

Maybe for couple of weeks there will be more Kitakaze and Haragumo in queue 

 

while i like your reply (nicely structured and detailed oppinion)

 

i think you focus too much on the impact of the IJN DD's

my argument was that  the combined effect  of IJN DD'S RN DD's and a possible nerf to Radar will screw things up!

im on your page that every single impact of those 3 wont be enough to screw things on their own longterm  but combined they would

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While they have good firepower, they are not nimble enough to evade cruiser fire. Therefore I doubt they are much of a problem for cruiser.

For other DD they might be trouble, but that could be mitigated with a concealment change.

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So far it was fine to have cruisers with 40sec 10km radar at 9km concealment and be able to roflstomp dds but its not ok when dds can finally fight back?
Since teams are full of idiots who not cant understand the priority of targets in relation to game objectives,team lineups and current battle situation, giving the means tot he dds to solve the problem AGAIN themselves is abso-freakin-lutely GREAT.

Edit, rage rant pt2:
-Did you wanna stay safe behind that island and rain hell towards enemies?
Well akizuki,kitakaze and harugumo are here mate.You are not safe there cause they can do the same now.It doesnt feel good, does it?

-Did you wanna hydro rush me in the smoke?
Sure, but you are going down with me champ.

-Did you wanna make a fast turn now that the enemy bb already shot at you?
Kewl! I ll grab 4-8k hp while you turn and another 10k while you run away setting you on fire multiple times.
DOES IT FEEL GOOD?

-Oh, you caught me without smoke and want to use all your guns?
Sure thing! Thanks for the 11 citadels.

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It's going to be SO immensely fun to play (and try to level) a T8 ship once 0.7.8 goes live.

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57 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

- WG releasing 2 DD lines that can royally screw  most CAs in gunfights

 

This is false.

RN DDs are monsters that will wreck DDs but they won't fave penetration nor survivability to really threaten cruisers.

As for Akizuki line - Kitakaze might come close-ish to what you describe (in the most favorable of circumstances) but as for Akizuki and Harugumo, these two are DDs only for the MM. They are smoke cruisers without citadels. And of the two at least Akizuki is extremely vulnerable to CAs despite good (for a DD her tier) hp pool.

 

57 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

- incentive to play classic DD's will drop

Well, that might be a legit problem with british DD line but mostly due to their insane concealment rather than firepower. And that line is still WiP, there's still hoping WG will wake up.

 

57 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

- incentive to play most CAs will drop

People who aren't scared of BBs now won't be scared of Harugumo and Daring either.

 

57 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

- thereby incentive to play BB's will drop (...)

Non sequitur.

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I'll just wait and see. Perhaps I will grind said lines myself. But I won't draw any conclusions yet. I've seen wow's being destroyed beforehand a lot of times (radar, RPF, German BB's and what have you?). Yes the HE spam is getting pretty old in the current meta. On the other hand: I'm seeing the US light cruiser hype dwindling already. Also I've come to know behind which island they are lying and let them rot there the entire match and take a slight detour. What I saw on YT from the CC's is testing a new ship line nobody is familiar with yet. So it seems awesome to burn a full health BB to the ground with smoke pewpewing. I've seen the "awesome" Asashio performance as well (also because it was new). It wouldn't surprise me if all this are "trojan horses: " a trick in which you fall into once and after that rarely. Last: filling a smoke cloud with fish (when able) is already in my muscle memory.

For now avoid T8-10 after the patch for a while, let the hype wear off and come back. I'll draw conclusions in about 2 tot 3 months.

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57 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

ill try to make this short so please dont try to pic on things that are result up neccesary simplification of the issue...

 

- WG releasing 2 DD lines that can royally screw  most CAs in gunfights

- they do so on top of a already spammy CA line which creates a horrible environment for classic DD lines

- they are discussing nerfing the only real counter CA's have to those DD's (Radar) cause of whiny comunity

 

My prediction, a domino effect:

- incentive to play classic DD's will drop

- incentive to play most CAs will drop

- thereby incentive to play BB's will drop although numbers wont suffer as much 

- result? stale Meta where only(mostly) the ships will be played that can soemwhat deal with this degenerated meta on their own 

 

=> Diversity wont increase but decrease and meta will be annoyingly spamy

 

Hmm I do not think this happen.

Shima is now the weakest DD in the game and people still playing this ship. 

And not only that - she is the most played t10 DD by a huge margin.

 

Stats from last month:

Shima       387586
Yueyang     71410
Gearing    188605

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14 minutes ago, Sigimundus said:

Hmm I do not think this happen.

Shima is now the weakest DD in the game and people still playing this ship. 

And not only that - she is the most played t10 DD by a huge margin.

 

Because everybody has it? since it is the oldest one. And it was better back then.

Ppl would need to fail-die their way up in the other lines aswell to get there. Also they have a perfect excuse to sit at 20km because 20 km torps :fish_book:

If i have more Shimas in my team, i usually feel that we have a disadvatange, because the player itself is usually worse than the others.

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49 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

 

while i like your reply (nicely structured and detailed oppinion)

 

i think you focus too much on the impact of the IJN DD's

my argument was that  the combined effect  of IJN DD'S RN DD's and a possible nerf to Radar will screw things up!

im on your page that every single impact of those 3 wont be enough to screw things on their own longterm  but combined they would

 

Not sure what you consider "classic DD". To me RN DDs are classic DDs in the same way as US DDs, KM DDs and PA DDs are (event tho they are hybrids  all of them could be used as good torpedoboats). Still none of them is as popular as IJN classic DD line and I doubt that in long term any will be. If you look at weekly numbers of ships by number of players, Aki, Kagero and Shima consistently have almost twice as much players as the second best at respective tier. Only Yugumo is very close with Fletcher. Considering how much IJN DDs suffer from powercreep this is really surprising.

 

I think that debating about possible changes to radar is useless as there is no info how and if at all this will happen. It is undeniable that proliferation on radar ships at higher tiers, and together with all other things, makes DD lives much more challenging making impact of the good DD players over average/bad DD players for the outcome of the game more pronounced.  Smoke mechanic is already changed, AA will be changed together with CV rework so I don't see why radar should stay the same IF WG DECIDE that it is hurting the game in the current state. I don't see why is that a bad thing and I still think that it is a better way than introducing consumable that could jam radar.

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7 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

 

Because everybody has it? since it is the oldest one. And it was better back then.

Ppl would need to fail-die their way up in the other lines aswell to get there. Also they have a perfect excuse to sit at 20km because 20 km torps :fish_book:

If i have more Shimas in my team, i usually feel that we have a disadvatange, because the player itself is usually worse than the others.

I do not contradict that Shima is oldest and everyone has it in the harbor.

I contradict that "incentive to play classic DD's will drop".

I want to say that people will be playing Shima regardless the changes WG will do. 

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