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Shurz

Salvo spread mechanics - can it be improved?

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Why doesnt' salvo spread mechanics improve when you fire salvo after salvo on the same target?

 

When the RNG constantly provides the worst possible salvo spread outcome on the same broadside stationary target, something is wrong.

 

worse dispersion against targets that are angling, changing speeds is normal, but salvo after salvo against stationary broadside battleship targets at less than 16 km range all failing to hit ????

not even bounces or fails to pen - just not a single hit when aiming for citadel. Shells constantly spread to the max dispersion, both left and right and either too short or too far away.

 

Even with the worst guns in the game, one should see some improvement. Recalculating the values based on where shells landed. 

Not just the excuse - your F der Grosse has "poor accuracy guns", implying they will never hit.

These are not Mortars . . .

 

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13 minutes ago, Shurz said:

Why doesnt' salvo spread mechanics improve when you fire salvo after salvo on the same target?

 

When the RNG constantly provides the worst possible salvo spread outcome on the same broadside stationary target, something is wrong.

 

worse dispersion against targets that are angling, changing speeds is normal, but salvo after salvo against stationary broadside battleship targets at less than 16 km range all failing to hit ????

not even bounces or fails to pen - just not a single hit when aiming for citadel. Shells constantly spread to the max dispersion, both left and right and either too short or too far away.

 

Even with the worst guns in the game, one should see some improvement. Recalculating the values based on where shells landed. 

Not just the excuse - your F der Grosse has "poor accuracy guns", implying they will never hit.

These are not Mortars . . .

 

 

The dispersion is a fixed value for each ship, I don't think there's any chance they will change that.

It is true in real Naval gunnery they corrected aim, but they were almost never firing at stationary target and in the real world only a tiny percentage (3-5%) of BB shells hit their intended target.

It's a game and real world arguments don't cut it, no matter how much you would like them to, you would also find real world mechanics would have to ALL be applied, not just a convenient few that you would like.

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Every gun, be it large or small, has a certain amount of deviation to it even in perfect weather conditions. The greater the distance, the bigger said deviation gets. This is why you adjust the sight to the gun and not the gun to the sight. It's e.g. one of the reasons why when they modernized the Iowas they kept the existing mechanical computers and gun directors in place. The solution they could produce was more accurate than the guns themselves, hence why replacing them with a more accurate system was a waste of time.

 

So that RNG decides whether your shell lands on target or not is in fact realistic. You are already correcting your firing solution, it's called aiming. If you aim too short, you naturally correct forward and so on. Correcting your aim however naturally doesn't affect your dispersion.

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Salvos don't get tighter in real life the more you fire. Each individual gun crew don't know where they hit so they can't correct by themselves.

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2 hours ago, Shurz said:

Why doesnt' salvo spread mechanics improve when you fire salvo after salvo on the same target?

 

 

The same reason salvoes dont get progressively worse the more shells you get put into your commanding crew, range finders, turrets and so on - and your ever increasingly more accurate "range guesses" gets demolished by a few simple erratic manoeuvres.

 

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9 hours ago, Shurz said:

Why doesnt' salvo spread mechanics improve when you fire salvo after salvo on the same target?

 

When the RNG constantly provides the worst possible salvo spread outcome on the same broadside stationary target, something is wrong.

I find it helps if I fire 'turret by turret', and not the full salvo.

Did so at an AFK BB, range ~15km. 

 

Salvo straddled him (he was brodside, but I was coming in at an angle). 

Then next reload, I fired 'singular shots'. One fell short, the other hit, every time. 

So from 4 turrets I got 4 hits, one of them citadel. 

 

DD torps took him but still managed to hit quite well, I think. 

Might have sunk him if I had started turret-by-turret in the first place.

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9 minut temu, BLUB__BLUB napisał:

I find it helps if I fire 'turret by turret', and not the full salvo.

Did so at an AFK BB, range ~15km. 

 

Salvo straddled him (he was brodside, but I was coming in at an angle). 

Then next reload, I fired 'singular shots'. One fell short, the other hit, every time. 

So from 4 turrets I got 4 hits, one of them citadel. 

 

DD torps took him but still managed to hit quite well, I think. 

Might have sunk him if I had started turret-by-turret in the first place.

This. For some reason it works. 

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10 hours ago, Shurz said:

Why doesnt' salvo spread mechanics improve when you fire salvo after salvo on the same target?

 

When the RNG constantly provides the worst possible salvo spread outcome on the same broadside stationary target, something is wrong.

 

worse dispersion against targets that are angling, changing speeds is normal, but salvo after salvo against stationary broadside battleship targets at less than 16 km range all failing to hit ????

not even bounces or fails to pen - just not a single hit when aiming for citadel. Shells constantly spread to the max dispersion, both left and right and either too short or too far away.

 

Even with the worst guns in the game, one should see some improvement. Recalculating the values based on where shells landed. 

Not just the excuse - your F der Grosse has "poor accuracy guns", implying they will never hit.

These are not Mortars . . .

 

Are you stationary aswell? If no then no..

Edited by PapVogele
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2 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

This. For some reason it works. 

It works because if you have 'the salvo', it takes ONE aim point, and calculates every guns dispersion from there.

So, aim for the middle, and the most left shell and the most right shell can be further apart than the length of the whole target.

 

Further - I think the dispersion is calculated 'along YOUR orientation'. 

Which means, you get a 'line of dispersion' (more like an oval, probably) that has the same orientation as YOUR ship. 

I mean, sort of like this (shots will land anywhere in that oval). Shooting turret-by-turret will make that oval much smaller.

Also, it will allow you to make small corrections (depending on how many turrets you have).

Dispersion.jpg

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13 minuty temu, BLUB__BLUB napisał:

It works because if you have 'the salvo', it takes ONE aim point, and calculates every guns dispersion from there.

So, aim for the middle, and the most left shell and the most right shell can be further apart than the length of the whole target.

 

Further - I think the dispersion is calculated 'along YOUR orientation'. 

Which means, you get a 'line of dispersion' (more like an oval, probably) that has the same orientation as YOUR ship. 

I mean, sort of like this (shots will land anywhere in that oval). Shooting turret-by-turret will make that oval much smaller.

Also, it will allow you to make small corrections (depending on how many turrets you have).

Dispersion.jpg

Thing is that dispersion is constant rng value regardless how you fire. Probably it is just an illusion that we hit more than with a full salvo. 

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18 minutes ago, DariusJacek said:

Thing is that dispersion is constant rng value regardless how you fire. Probably it is just an illusion that we hit more than with a full salvo. 

Yes it is, if the ship that you fire at has the same orientation, it doesn't matter.

But note how the spread is, this is an oval, and it is the same orientation as your ship.

Probably the '4 times aim' has more effect, separate turret fire has NO effect on dispersion.

 

All that I am sure of, is I hit BETTER when I do that to ships that are NOT sailing in te he same direction as I am. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Fat_Maniac said:

I posted this sourced from LWM a while ago but it explains dispersion.

Good stuff. I know dispersion is the amount of BORK that you get when aiming. 'Oval' confirmed though.

I'm pretty sure the oval stays same orientation as your ship, but never measured it. 

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The summary version is that you can have a 'groundhog day' with a gun, firing the exact same shell with the gun pointing in exactly the same direction, but the chance of the shell landing in the exact same spot is virtually nil. You can correct for aim, but not the destination, so to speak.

 

Edit - the dispersion pattern is along the orientation of the shot fired, nothing to do with the orientation of the firing ship. Note that irrespective of which turret fires, the dispersion is centered around the aimed landing spot, with the direction of shell flight driving the vertical/horizontal elements.

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43 minuty temu, BLUB__BLUB napisał:

Yes it is, if the ship that you fire at has the same orientation, it doesn't matter.

But note how the spread is, this is an oval, and it is the same orientation as your ship.

Probably the '4 times aim' has more effect, separate turret fire has NO effect on dispersion.

 

Dispersion is calculated (rng drawn) for each and every shell. Better accuracy is probably effect of better aim due to the correction. Oval orientation is based on the direction of aim/fire, not on your ship position/angle. 

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2 hours ago, DariusJacek said:

Dispersion is calculated (rng drawn) for each and every shell. Better accuracy is probably effect of better aim due to the correction. Oval orientation is based on the direction of aim/fire, not on your ship position/angle. 

Yep, it is calculated for every shell - but aiming once is worse than aiming 4x.

 

I think the oval is related to the orientation of your ship, though. 

It sort of tends to follow that oval anyway. 

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