BB AP full penetrations on DDs

[M0bius_One]

Please fix this. If it's intended (TM), please remove it because it's freaking stupid.

[DFens_666]

7 minutes ago, The_Dunk_Squad said:

Please fix this. If it's intended (TM), please remove it because it's freaking stupid.

 

Supposedly they are working on it.

However, i dont think its really easy to fix with the mechanics already in place.

[LeSnoet]

My Khaba would approve

[El2aZeR]

Fix is in the works.

You know,

just like the CV rework is...

[ClappingLollies]

 

[Altsak]

Too bad it's a BB nerf so we wont have a fix in a reasonable time.

[elblancogringo]

We should add a "BB AP on DD megathread" like it was done for radar.

Oh and a "AP bombs are broken megathread".

 

[mariouus]

1 hour ago, The_Dunk_Squad said:

Please fix this. If it's intended (TM), please remove it because it's freaking stupid.

Well, there is a bug that sometimes counts single penetration as multiples. And this one should be fixed.

 

At the same time. I see no reason do remove penetrations. While yes, some of them are just lucky hits. Lets say RNG. Quite alot are complitely intentional. You have do rember. DD getting pentratrating hits is not a BB fault. It usually requires DD do angle and BB do wait for them do angle.

 

If a cruiser player screws up his positioning and turns, he dies, often from only couple of hits. And I see no reason why DD player, with a lot smaller ship, with mutch better manouvrability and consilement should get "freebies".

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, mariouus said:

If a cruiser player screws up his positioning and turns, he dies, often from only couple of hits. And I see no reason why DD player, with a lot smaller ship, with mutch better manouvrability and consilement should get "freebies".

 

Well i feel, because BBs arent supposed to oneshot DDs? Basicly they can blast everything back to port with one salvo, except certain ones of their own

 

15 minutes ago, mariouus said:

DD getting pentratrating hits is not a BB fault. It usually requires DD do angle and BB do wait for them do angle.

 

Atleast with RN BBs, you can pen even broadsiding DDs quite regularly. Just today penned a Leningrad with my DoY and an Akizuki twice with my Nelson.

[Ouzo11]

18 minutes ago, mariouus said:

And I see no reason why DD player, with a lot smaller ship, with mutch better manouvrability and consilement should get "freebies".

52% of your games are on BBs.
42% on cruisers
6% on dds.
Of them only 31 matches in a t8 kiev.
 

[BLUB__BLUB]

When a BB shoots at a DD with AP, usually you get OVERpens. They'd leave a mighty big hole though. 

If you'd get three of those close together, you'd have  the DD sliced in half.

 

I never noticed anything 'weird'. I can shoot a DD with AP, usually takes away 20-30% of his HP.

I have shot DDs with a single salvo, too. usually when facing them at 45 degrees, and hitting them 'face on'. 

Makes sense to me though. A few hits that pass from front to rear, nothing left of the DD.

 

[Kenliero]

1 hour ago, MortenTardo said:

 

2017.... Let's see what 2019 brings...

 

 

 

probably just another topic like this...

[Capra76]

47 minutes ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

They'd leave a mighty big hole though. 

If you'd get three of those close together, you'd have  the DD sliced in half.

 

Not really, the Fletchers for example were nearly 400 foot long so even a 16" shell is just some extra ventillation unless it destroys something important.

[mariouus]

13 minutes ago, Ouzo11 said:

31 minutes ago, mariouus said:

and consilement should get "freebies".

52% of your games are on BBs.
42% on cruisers
6% on dds.
Of them only 31 matches in a t8 kiev.
 

And then?  I would say inflicting massive damage to a DD is rare, when compared do CA/CL. I would say for every DD I one-shot, I one-shot about twenty cruisers.

 

If somebody constantly takes massive damage from BB, than it more down to the DD player playstyle.

 

Pointing out my ship classes serves little point. I have never had mutch issue with playing against DDs. Even If they do remove penetration damage, I Am sure, I would not have mutch issue then either. But it would be a massive screw-over for cruisers.And it also would come with DD nerf in some other respect, so it would screw-over those DD players who do not see the "Issue" in the same light.

23 minutes ago, DFens_666 said:

Well i feel, because BBs arent supposed to oneshot DDs? Basicly they can blast everything back to port with one salvo, except certain ones of their own

First question is, why DD players should be more protected from their screw-ups than cruiser players?

 

Second one is just an observation. WG actually proposed "fix" for it. This proved do be wildly unpopular. Apparently having armor that could bounce Cruiser shells is more useful, than having no penetration damage from BB. That kind of makes me question the actual scale of the issue in hand.

 

The thing is, removing penetration damage from DDs can not come for Free. And as long as DD players want it for Free, with-out any nerfs, WG cant do mutch about it.

[DFens_666]

1 minute ago, mariouus said:

First question is, why DD players should be more protected from their screw-ups than cruiser players?

 

Because either way, the DD will get punished. Cruisers will punish their broadside, and BBs will punish the turn. So basicly its wrong. Not making the turn might have the same ending (DD dead) even tho its not devastated by one BB, but by half the team shooting. So for me its wrong.

 

1 minute ago, mariouus said:

Second one is just an observation. WG actually proposed "fix" for it. This proved do be wildly unpopular. Apparently having armor that could bounce Cruiser shells is more useful, than having no penetration damage from BB. That kind of makes me question the actual scale of the issue in hand.

 

The thing is, removing penetration damage from DDs can not come for Free. And as long as DD players want it for Free, with-out any nerfs, WG cant do mutch about it.

 

Yes i heard about that with lowering armor. But lets be real here, a DD that can be overmatched by >203mm AP... thats even worse than currently getting blapped by BB AP. Cruisers will hit much better than BBs, so they do it more reliable. Getting AP pen which deals almost 2k damage (hindenburg f.e.), and receiving up to 12 on a really close dispersion? Sounds like dead DD aswell. Even tho i would be in favor of Cruisers punishing DDs, but i dont think that would be quite balanced.

 

The return would be, BBs need to switch to HE, which might be as devastating as AP is currently. The problem is, sometimes HE deals 0 damage because modules. And that should get fixed then, so HE WILL deal damage no matter what. Overall result will stay the same, but BBs having to switch between ammo would be fair. Ive said it before, the HE ripping half your ship apart will even be less funny for those DD players, but if they want that

[Exocet6951]

8 minutes ago, mariouus said:

First question is, why DD players should be more protected from their screw-ups than cruiser players?

 

Because they take inherently more risks and essentially have no chance to bounce anything, with each overpen being a significant amount of HP permanently lost?
In fact, some DDs have less torpedo an main gun range than some secondaries.
Most can't even reliably hit BBs, what they're supposed to counter, when the former and retreating. The torpedoes simply don't have enough range nor speed to catch up without the DD actually being spotted.

So why should DDs be more protected?

Because short of a radar cruiser or a Minotaur, BBs are a lot more of a risk to DDs than cruisers.
Yup, the ships that counter DDs (when coordinating) are less of a risk to DDs than the ships DDs are supposed to counter.
 

[Blixies]

10 minutes ago, mariouus said:

And then?  I would say inflicting massive damage to a DD is rare, when compared do CA/CL. I would say for every DD I one-shot, I one-shot about twenty cruisers

And about 0 BBs.

11 minutes ago, mariouus said:

First question is, why DD players should be more protected from their screw-ups than cruiser players?

It's ok if my favorite class screws up though, no worries.

Ladies and gentlemen I present to you a classical BB enthusiast.

[mariouus]

21 minutes ago, Blixies said:

And about 0 BBs.

More or less the same.

 

23 minutes ago, Blixies said:

It's ok if my favorite class screws up though, no worries.

Ladies and gentlemen I present to you a classical BB enthusiast.

 

Yes, that is why I mostly play cruisers for well over a year. I just love BBs so mutch that I hardly play them these days.

 

38 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

So why should DDs be more protected?

Because short of a radar cruiser or a Minotaur, BBs are a lot more of a risk to DDs than cruisers.
Yup, the ships that counter DDs (when coordinating) are less of a risk to DDs than the ships DDs are supposed to counter.

Yes, agree. But there was the WG proposal. What essentialy would have protected DDs from BB. But players did not like it. Because it would have made cruisers more potent against them.

 

In other words, people just want penetration removed. With-out being willing do give anything up for it.

 

And it just can not happen like that.

 

If they remove penetration damage from BBs, they have do make cruisers more effective in countering DDs. Doing it with-out it would make CA/CLs obsolete.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[thiextar]

Ap should only get overpens on dds for balancing reasons. Why should bbs be able to blap them without even having to worry about ammo type? Make bbs have to load he in order to do massive damage against dds, this way, atleast bbs arent as idiot proof as they currently are.

[El2aZeR]

3 hours ago, BLUB__BLUB said:

They'd leave a mighty big hole though.

 

A hole less than half a meter in diameter is hardly impressive for a ship that is about a dozen meters in height from the bottom to the main deck and over a hundred meters long. You'd need about 30 hits to cut a DD in half with a BB.

[ApesTogetherStronK]

Oh look another one of these threads. And amusingly Morten's old thread was resurrected today as well, perhaps because of the link here. This has been an issue for years, and as El2 above me here has already pointed out, it'll get fixed about the same time as the 'Great CV Rework', so...2090? 

 

Wargaming, let me make this real easy for you. 

 

{

     If shell = greater than 250mm = 100% overpen if class hit = DD 

}

 

Obviously not usable code, but that line is legit all that's required. 

[Prospect_b]

3 hours ago, mariouus said:

First question is, why DD players should be more protected from their screw-ups than cruiser players?

 

You forgot about the carriers.

 

 

DDs be oneshottable.

CAs/CLs be oneshottable.

CVs be oneshottable. (or just deleted out of the game)

 

 

Only the one true masterrace will be spared!

 

 

[ClappingLollies]

8 hours ago, mariouus said:

If they remove penetration damage from BBs, they have do make cruisers more effective in countering DDs. Doing it with-out it would make CA/CLs obsolete.

MOAR effective? Have you not played the game lately? Have you seen the avg lifespan of DD's these last few weeks? 

Most DD's don't even last to the five minute mark.

Cruisers are more than effective enough to kill DD's. Everything has radar or hydro these days so DD's don't need more counters.

 

If BB's had to switch to HE to do the kind of DMG they do now with AP we would all be happy. Except BB players since they then would have to press "1" every once in a while. And we all know most of them are lazy idiots that run for the border when they are forced to fight. 

[PapVogele]

The biggest issue is that BBs can consistently blab any other class in the game, and they’re fine with it. Some DDs can also occasionally blab any other class in the game, except it takes either skill on the DD side and huuuge risks or stupidity on the recieving end. BBs on the other hand rarely risks anything when they blab cruisers or DDs, and the cruiser or DD can be playing the best, but those huge overmatching shells just don’t care.

 

BBs don’t just get rewarded for skill, they also get rewarded for just playing a class that the game mechanics favor. Angled cruiser? Lolpen citadel blab. DD 16 km away dodging shells? Let me just RNG the F out of you.

 

Let BBs keep their stupid mechanics, but at least make torpedoes more consistent then. Either speed them all up considerably, or reduce the manouverability of BBs again, let them actually be punished by something when its ok for them to punish everything else no matter how well the other player is playing.

[ClappingLollies]

2 minutes ago, PapVogele said:

but at least make torpedoes more consistent then. Either speed them all up considerably, or reduce the manouverability of BBs again

Or just remove the most idiotic mechanic in the game: RNG on torpedo spreads. That perfect BB sized gap for no reason what so ever.