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Shipstacking in CW

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I wonder if WG has any plans for the next CW season regarding ship stacking? That means for example teams running 6 Moskva's and one BB. 

This is VERY hard to counter unless you run the same setup. I mean, what can stop 6 Moskva's pushing? BB's can't, DD's can't, cruisers can't.

 

Teams also stack other ships aswell and it is super hard to deal with. Now, i wonder how next season is going to be regarding this because the teams can stack 6 Stalingrad's then. And seeing how "balanced" all those versions are, how in the world would a clan that don't have Stalingrad's deal with that?

 

Is shipstacking OK? If so, why the hell are we trying different setups? Just stack up 6 Moskva's or 6 Worcesters and a BB and you basically win. 

 

 @MrConway

 

 

 

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Beta Tester
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Then why aren't the top teams doing this?

 

It's a trick that can work, until people learn to spot them and the simple things needed to control them.

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8 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

If that tactic is such an easy win, why are you not doing it yourself? :Smile_trollface:

Our FC's refuses to do it for some reason. Pluss missing players that actually have the Moskva. Try it. See how balanced it is. :Smile_bajan2:

 

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14 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

See how balanced it is.

Provide a replay with this setup in a CW-match between two good clans.

 

 

But, BTT:

You are right. In CW there should be a rule that every ship can be used only twice in the team setup.

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1 minute ago, principat121 said:

Provide a replay with this setup in a CW-match between two good clans.

Try to play against it before you comment man. 

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its not like we can choose who or what to play against, provide a replay and we can see for ourselves, not personally come against more than 3 of em

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16 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

Try to play against it before you comment man. 

YOU brought this topic up, so it is YOUR turn to proof your claim.

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Just now, principat121 said:

YOU brought this topic up, so it is YOUR turn to proof your claim.

You are just being ignored. 

 

15 minutes ago, LiKwId said:

its not like we can choose who or what to play against, provide a replay and we can see for ourselves, not personally come against more than 3 of em

I can probably find replays of the Moskva's. Just have to look through a few 1000 replays so you can be satisfied. Cant provide replays when it comes to the Stalingrad as it has not been released yet. 

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1 minute ago, MortenTardo said:

You are just being ignored.

You are a funny guy.

 

Claming something is off balance.

Someone asks for a neutral proof (replay) to back up your claim and you putting the person on ignore?!

:cap_old:

Yeah... going the easy way...

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Now I don’t have CW experience as I don’t really have the time... but this “ship stacking” sounds like a legit tactic, overwhelming the “standard setup” with a counter.

 

I don’t see a problem with this, adapt and overcome.

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that whole "just spam Moskvas and win" idea is as old as CBs themselves - that's been claimed to work ever since before season one. And I think on NA Moskvas actually did somewhat dominate the first season. Over here? Not so much, the top clans figured out how to counter it rather quickly. Current flavour-of-the-cheese is the occasional 3xMino 3xWorcester or some variation thereof.

Do these setups work? Yes, obviously, against some opponents.

Are they unbeatable? Not as long as you have a brain and use it...

Are they a good pick for top clans? Depends... they've viable, and until people get used to them they'll probably give you a good winrate (since MM will always throw a decent spread of skill levels at you). But that's about it...

Are they a good pick for good-but-not-top clans? Probably, since the chances that your opposition will figure out the necessary counters are lower...

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21 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

that whole "just spam Moskvas and win" idea is as old as CBs themselves - that's been claimed to work ever since before season one. And I think on NA Moskvas actually did somewhat dominate the first season. Over here? Not so much, the top clans figured out how to counter it rather quickly. Current flavour-of-the-cheese is the occasional 3xMino 3xWorcester or some variation thereof.

Do these setups work? Yes, obviously, against some opponents.

Are they unbeatable? Not as long as you have a brain and use it...

Are they a good pick for top clans? Depends... they've viable, and until people get used to them they'll probably give you a good winrate (since MM will always throw a decent spread of skill levels at you). But that's about it...

Are they a good pick for good-but-not-top clans? Probably, since the chances that your opposition will figure out the necessary counters are lower...

We have met a few only this season, after the Moskva buff happened. Very, very hard to make something happen against them, when you can with ease tank 3-4 million with that ship now. However, yeah you can counter it. My biggest concern though, is not the Moskva's but the Stalingrad's. 

 

Ofc the top clans will always find something, but the rest will probably not. There is a reason there is a limit on BB's in CW. 

Principat needs proof though. Think he has that comment on the clip board or something. :Smile_teethhappy:

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8 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

Think he has that comment on the clip board or something.

For posts from [SCRUB] you need it. Because otherwise it is nothing more then storytelling. Some fellows would even dare to say this is fake news...

 

But who I am?! I am just asking simple questions, that appearently too hard to answer...

:cap_tea:

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moskvas are easily counterable.. just kite and focus HE spam on them. i find worcester much harder to counter.. specially when they are paired with gearing... worcester HE spamming CA from smoke is something perverse...

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4 minutes ago, principat121 said:

But who I am?! I am just asking simple questions, that appearently too hard to answer...

:cap_tea:

Don't know. But remind me of this guy :Smile_teethhappy::

giphy.gif.ef8313f9bc018996ee8e34b34a891923.gif

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so I'm not able to play for a few weeks and you guys go all haywire? Shame.

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3 hours ago, Tyrendian89 said:

that whole "just spam Moskvas and win" idea is as old as CBs themselves - that's been claimed to work ever since before season one. And I think on NA Moskvas actually did somewhat dominate the first season. Over here? Not so much, the top clans figured out how to counter it rather quickly. Current flavour-of-the-cheese is the occasional 3xMino 3xWorcester or some variation thereof.

Do these setups work? Yes, obviously, against some opponents.

Are they unbeatable? Not as long as you have a brain and use it...

Are they a good pick for top clans? Depends... they've viable, and until people get used to them they'll probably give you a good winrate (since MM will always throw a decent spread of skill levels at you). But that's about it...

Are they a good pick for good-but-not-top clans? Probably, since the chances that your opposition will figure out the necessary counters are lower...

 

Moskva's did dominate early season one on NA. But that pretty much completely evaporated by the end of the second week. If I remember correctly the clan [Botes] used it back then to be one of the first typhoon teams on NA season 1.

 

I've played in every season so far in the Typhoon NA bracket. Ran into a 6 moskva team just last night. Line of sight is a wonderful thing. Six Moskva's just aren't flexible enough. It's too easy to catch a single ones broadside, and then there's a gap in their line. A single Zao on the flank slaughters Moskva's.

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3 hours ago, principat121 said:

For posts from [SCRUB] you need it. Because otherwise it is nothing more then storytelling. Some fellows would even dare to say this is fake news...

 

But who I am?! I am just asking simple questions, that appearently too hard to answer...

:cap_tea:

 

That's a sweeping, stereotypical generalization you got there. We've only encountered the 6 Moskva's plus BB a few times, and as a team we've had to learn how to deal with that, no shame in that. However, as Mort has already said, what we're actually more concerned about is next season, will we see Top End Clans running 6 Stalingrad's + BB? Cause that's basically 7 BB's there and should be a legitimate concern in terms of game balance, all the more so because only the good players will have them, so they won't be making mistakes in them either. 

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3 hours ago, robihr said:

moskvas are easily counterable.. just kite and focus HE spam on them. i find worcester much harder to counter.. specially when they are paired with gearing... worcester HE spamming CA from smoke is something perverse...

25 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

Every high-DPM setup.

Except that a concerted push by say 4 Moskvas is pretty damn tough. Thanks to the Moskva's 50mm plating basically everywhere it's not going to take much HE damage at all, plus the armour sections that can be penetrated by most HE shells are ones that can and will easily get saturated fast (bow/aft and superstructure), so after that is done the only damage you deal with HE is fires. That takes a while to take a Moskva down and in an HP trade, even the lower dpm on the Moskva is going to do a number on you, especially if they also focus fire in return ... they'll simply outlast you. BB AP is largely ineffectual with the 50 bow/aft end buff, you're lucky to get a couple normal pens if you hit the upper bow, but that's not something you can do consistently with BB dispersion.

 

What you need is either a lot of Hindenburgs with native 51mm HE pen to deal consistent damage to a Moskva, or Henry IVs with IFHE captain (and I don't think we're going to see lots of those anytime soon in CB, though the MBRB consumable might change that in the future perhaps). Other ships like Zaos, Des Moines, Moskvas or Worcesters simply don't have much of an effective HE dpm against that 50mm armour plating.

 

1 hour ago, Koruption said:

Six Moskva's just aren't flexible enough. It's too easy to catch a single ones broadside, and then there's a gap in their line. A single Zao on the flank slaughters Moskva's.

We encountered that team on Trap and they pushed up the 2 line with 4 Moskvas, the BB pushing up the 4 line in between the islands, one Moskva covering mid in the usual spot and one Moskva covering C cap at the usual spot.

 

No space to put a Zao, let alone another cruiser, on their flank in a position where it could do any meaningful damage without getting slaughtered in return due to literally not enough map to kite with. Flanking that push was quite physically impossible. Even pushing hard through C wouldn't have changed that since they had island cover from ships in C or mid as they advanced on our home cap, so a straight up dpm and HP trade was our only option and we couldn't focus fire them down as once we got a Moskva down a fair bit, it backed away, went dark and healed up. No way the DD could try to keep the Moskva spotted, since there was always at least three Moskvas in radar range should he have pushed up far enough to respot the dark Moskva.

 

 

 

Though personally I think it was the map that decided that game since I can't really see how this push would've worked quite as comprehensively on ANY other map in the current rotation (where actual space and opportunity to flank and create crossfires exist).

 

On this one map (Trap), that composition is a match made in heaven (or hell, depending on your perspective). I'm fairly confident though on any other map we would've been able to deal better with it and after experiencing it I'd even say we should have little trouble to beat it on another map unless (fire) RNG screws us over during the kiting/dpm trade.

 

 

That's my 0.02 dollars on the matter.

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