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Why nerf Hindenburg ?

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Hi Guys,

 

could someone explaint to me why WG has nerfed Hindenburg and Roon?. I thougt that they nerf ship that perform to well. Let see stats

Roon is in the middele of it tier (WR). Is it overperforming?

But Hindenburg has the worst WR of ALL T10 CRUISERS (EU server)!!!

What is going on with WG?!?!?!

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The Roon nerf made little sense. As for the Hindenburg, it has a bit of everything and with the 1/4 pen HE buff it almost has no clear weakness apart from a slow top speed and 12.3 km detection.

 

Still it is not like the nerf did that much. You go from 8.8 seconds to 9.7 with reload mod, so you can still pump out DPM.

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Cough cough.... Sorry but  you're asking for it: https://wows-numbers.com/player/550005857,umpaumpaX/
 

Your average damage on all your ships tells a lot about your play style and how helpful you are to the team.  (evidently you are not doing your part) 

It seems that there are many guys that believe that once they get to tier x they will own the super ships of their dreams without however figured out how they should be played this is apparently mirrored on the respective ships' stats on the server..

 

I would recommend you switch to lower tiers and start playing in divisions with people who know how to play.

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OC it's my limited intelligence. But in all honesty I haven't even noticed the nerf. Still I agree with OP. I don't see any sense into it at all.

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There've been a few cruiser nerfs recently that on the face of it don't make a great deal of sense:

  • Cleveland replaced by Dallas;
  • Hindi nerf;
  • Fr T8-10 losing 20% of DPM in return for questionable consumable;

are WG trying to turn down the power of the class in general?  If so why would they want to do that?

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WG nerfs ships if they are overperforming.

Always remember that they have complete stats, while the stats we see on sites like wows-numbers are incomplete and misleading for various reasons.

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2 hours ago, Capra76 said:

If so why would they want to do that?

I smell a new BB line coming. One made out of a lot of paper...

 

34 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

WG nerfs ships if they are overperforming.

Sure. Midway was overperfoming, was much better than Hakuryu. That's why she received a nerf.

I don't believe a single word when WG claims anything. They are pulling "facts" out of thin air to support their reasoning.

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Vor 5 Minuten, Aragathor sagte:

Sure. Midway was overperfoming, was much better than Hakuryu. That's why she received a nerf.

You have 13 CV games. I doubt your opinion about how OP Midway was has much value :cap_book:

T10 CVs right now are in their most balanced state ever. (Against each other, not against other ship types)

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10 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

You have 13 CV games. I doubt your opinion about how OP Midway was has much value :cap_book:

T10 CVs right now are in their most balanced state ever. (Against each other, not against other ship types)

And why do you think my opinion on CVs is based on my own experience? I gave up playing them as the RTS controls didn't fit my interests. But I listen to people who play CVs.

You can can dismiss that too of course. You can in fact dismiss all of the criticism that goes towards WG for nerfing ships that do not need any changes.

Because Roon definitely needed a reload nerf.

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Vor 6 Minuten, Aragathor sagte:

And why do you think my opinion on CVs is based on my own experience? I gave up playing them as the RTS controls didn't fit my interests. But I listen to people who play CVs.

You can can dismiss that too of course.

People like Pape? :cap_haloween:

I'm a CV player myself, I don't need other people to realize the Midway nerf was absolutely necessary.

And if the nerf was really so bad, why does Midway have 4 times as many games as Hakuryu over the last 2 months?

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25 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

And if the nerf was really so bad, why does Midway have 4 times as many games as Hakuryu over the last 2 months?

Let me counter it and ask why did the recent KOTS teams overwhelmingly pick Hakuryu if Midway is so balanced?  If the ship is as good as Haukuryu than the spread should be 50/50.

Also could you also link the stats you are quoting?

 

Getting back to the Hindenburg nerf. I see less and less Hindenburgs in CWs. I have switched to Zao and I am performing better. The 1s increase might have not been much, but it looks like it broke the camel's back.

 

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Vor 7 Minuten, Aragathor sagte:

Let me counter it and ask why did the recent KOTS teams overwhelmingly pick Hakuryu if Midway is so balanced?  If the ship is as good as Haukuryu than the spread should be 50/50.

Also could you also link the stats you are quoting?

You can't be serious right now :fish_nerv:

Are you really trying to compare a playermade event with the Random gamemode that this game is about? Ships are balanced for Randoms, not for KOTS.

You could also make an event with teams of 6 DDs and one cruiser and then wonder why everyone takes a Wooster instead of other cruisers :cap_haloween:

And here the link: http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/20180804/eu_2month/average_ship.html

 

Vor 12 Minuten, Aragathor sagte:

Getting back to the Hindenburg nerf. I see less and less Hindenburgs in CWs. I have switched to Zao and I am performing better. The 1s increase might have not been much, but it looks like it broke the camel's back.

There are still enough Hindenburgs, depending on the team's tactic.

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36 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Are you really trying to compare a playermade event with the Random gamemode that this game is about?

First of all, if KOTS is player made then why is WG claiming it as its own -> https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/community/king-of-the-sea-vi/

From all the articles on the site it looks to me that clearly KOTS is a competitive tournament made by WG which is only run by the community on the surface.

 

36 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Ships are balanced for Randoms, not for KOTS.

So are you saying that in the hands of some of the best, if not the best, CV players there is a clear discrepancy between the Midway and the Hakuryu? And that against teams of similar skill the Midway is an inferior ship?

Because it looks like this to me.

 

36 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

You could also make an event with teams of 6 DDs and one cruiser and then wonder why everyone takes a Wooster instead of other cruisers

There's is currently a 7 page / 5000 views thread discussing the balance problems of the Wooster with well written arguments showing that the ship is unbalanced.

 

Thanks for the link, the only reason I could find is the fact that the Admiral Halsey campaign has several missions requiring American CVs.

Also the numbers are terrifyingly low, the CV rework can't come fast enough. And I really hope the RTS controls will be thrown out.

 

PS: Just a thought, if so many people are playing Midway they are going to see mostly other Midways.  So the listed  2 month stats can't be really used as a comparison between Hakuryu and Midway.

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Vor 2 Stunden, Aragathor sagte:

First of all, if KOTS is player made then why is WG claiming it as its own -> https://worldofwarships.eu/en/news/community/king-of-the-sea-vi/

From all the articles on the site it looks to me that clearly KOTS is a competitive tournament made by WG which is only run by the community on the surface.

5eb60c576c.png

 

Vor 2 Stunden, Aragathor sagte:

So are you saying that in the hands of some of the best, if not the best, CV players there is a clear discrepancy between the Midway and the Hakuryu? And that against teams of similar skill the Midway is an inferior ship?

Because it looks like this to me.

That goes for many ships, not just CVs. Skill Floor and Skill Ceiling are not just words in WoWs.

 

Vor 2 Stunden, Aragathor sagte:

There's is currently a 7 page / 5000 views thread discussing the balance problems of the Wooster with well written arguments showing that the ship is unbalanced.

And if Wooster gets nerfed (rightfully so, if you ask me) everyone will take Radar Mino. Nothing changes the fact, that in certain environments certain ships are stronger than others.

 

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7 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

WG nerfs ships if they are overperforming.

Always remember that they have complete stats, while the stats we see on sites like wows-numbers are incomplete and misleading for various reasons.

 

But then Cleveland has been in it's current state since beta (AFT skill changes etc not withstanding) and Hindenburg joined the game in patch 0.5.0.3 (October 2015), so why nearly 3 years later have they now decided that they're overperforming and need to be nerfed?

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Vor 9 Minuten, Capra76 sagte:

 

But then Cleveland has been in it's current state since beta (AFT skill changes etc not withstanding) and Hindenburg joined the game in patch 0.5.0.3 (October 2015), so why nearly 3 years later have they now decided that they're overperforming and need to be nerfed?

Because Cleveland needed the rest of the CL tree before they changed anything. And that was a lot of work.

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6 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Because Cleveland needed the rest of the CL tree before they changed anything. And that was a lot of work.

If Cleveland had really been OP do you not think they' could've found some way to balance it?  Cut the range/reload, maybe scale back the AA or tweak handling, detection or whatever until it was balanced.

 

Cleveland wasn't obviously OP at T6 and Dallas is just rank bad as a replacement so overall a big nerf to the T6 USN CL.

 

And Hindi?  Why have they waited 3 years to nerf her?

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Are you SERIOUSLY claiming tier 6 Cleveland wasn't OP ?

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37 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Are you SERIOUSLY claiming tier 6 Cleveland wasn't OP ?

 

Are you SERIOUSLY claiming that WG couldn't balance that ship at T6 and left it OP for 3 years?

 

Please SERIOUSLY show me statistics that prove that she was OP at T6.

 

Are you SERIOUSLY telling me that you think Dallas is a good ship at T6?

 

And SERIOUSLY please stop putting the word SERIOUSLY in capitals as a way of infering that I'm some kind of idiot.

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16 hours ago, Capra76 said:

But then Cleveland has been in it's current state since beta (AFT skill changes etc not withstanding) and Hindenburg joined the game in patch 0.5.0.3 (October 2015), so why nearly 3 years later have they now decided that they're overperforming and need to be nerfed?

 

You are ignoring the fact that a lot of things changed since then. Some global changes like redesign of Captain Skills and removal of stealth fire hit some ships more then others. Also Hindy received some buffs too in that period like increase of HE pen from 1/6 to 1/4. WG have access to much more detailed stats then we do, and people tend to use stats from sites like wows-numbers which don't give complete stats and which give only all time stats not detailed stats by weak or month for example.

 

As long as I play this game there is always a rumor that Cleveland will be moved to T8 eventually. It was temporary solution and Cleveland was significantly nerfed to fit at T6. She shouldn't be at T6 as she is "younger" than other T6 cruisers. She was a very good T6 simple because she was out of place at that tier. Dallas is not a bad ship but she is not a good ship either. And one thing is sure, she is not "new T6 Cleveland". So I understand that people complain about moving Cleveland to T8 and replacing her with Dallas, especially if they liked old Cleveland, but Cleveland is now where she should be from a start.

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IFHE tier 6 Cleveland was completely out of place. That thing had almost the same DPM as a Kutuzov with very good gun angles and shell arcs perfect for island-hugging.

 

It was a ship that was supposed to go tier 8 since the beta of the game. Now it's still a monster at tier 8, but at least it's not out of place.

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5 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

IFHE tier 6 Cleveland was completely out of place.

 

6 hours ago, fumtu said:

Dallas is not a bad ship

 

Take a look at the stats, for example w/e 19/5 (Cleveland's last at T6), 27,113 dmg and 49.07% WR compared to Buddy's 28,963 and 48.25% or Leander's 27,007 and 48.66%, so strong but not obviously out of place.

 

And compared to the above Dallas loses 25% DPM plus a lot of HP and AA.

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41 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Take a look at the stats, for example w/e 19/5 (Cleveland's last at T6), 27,113 dmg and 49.07% WR compared to Buddy's 28,963 and 48.25% or Leander's 27,007 and 48.66%, so strong but not obviously out of place.

 

And compared to the above Dallas loses 25% DPM plus a lot of HP and AA.

 

Lot of those games were before IFHE was introduced to the game as wows-numbers.com shows stats for all time. But if you are taking those stats as relevant you can see that Dallas is doing fine, and by those stats it is a best silver cruiser at T6. 

 

5b71d250b9925_Screenshot_2018-08-13WoWSStatsNumbersEU-Dallas-Warshipsdetailedstatistics.thumb.png.bb89d9e61cfee4a351aeb0e8aa1e4f10.png

 

Ironically your stats with Dallas are better than your stats with T6 Cleveland. To me Dallas is OK ship, especially if you have IFHE. I completed grind to Helena without IFHE and i did just fine. It is maneuverable ships with decent AA and Hydro on a separate slot is nice. Sure is definitely not as powerful as Cleveland, neither something special but she is OK.

 

This US CA/CL split was inevitable. I'm sorry to see T6 Cleveland go, she was my 5th most played ship, but I'm liking a T8 Cleveland even tho she gets T8 MM. She is not coming back to T6, not as a silver ship or as a premium. Remember good times and try to adapt to new stuff.

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1 hour ago, fumtu said:

Ironically your stats with Dallas are better than your stats with T6 Cleveland

 

Not surprising since most of my Cleveland games were back in 2015 and I'm a far better player now than I was then and the fact that I'm only about 3,000 dmg ahead of the average Dallas player should tell you why the ship appears to be performing well at the moment, as a point of comparison I'm I think 6,000 ahead of the average Leander. 9,000 ahead on Aoba and nearly 19,000 up on Nurnburg (shocking WR though :Smile_sad:), once the veterans play through Dallas her stats are going to sink like a stone (she is basically Omaha, but slower, worse handling and without the torps).

 

The numbers I quoted were Maple Syrup for the weeks I mentioned, so IFHE and other changes were factored  in.

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On 8/12/2018 at 9:26 PM, Capra76 said:

And Hindi?  Why have they waited 3 years to nerf her?

 

Because they've been buffing her for 3 years?

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