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robijn17

Tier V now what

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Ok i got here, tier V (yay?). Man did i get my [edited]slapped around in my omaha. I started to watch some youtube movies and started to play a whole lot better. But now i got a fully upgraded omaha and starting to slap other boats to the depths below. But now i'm faced with my next problem...

 

I can now choose between the pensacola or the dallas. I would like to here the experience other people have with these boats before i sink 40k xp and find out i got the wrong one. Tell me about the ships and how they play, i have been on the wiki of both of them so i got that covered.

 

TL;DR tell me you experience with the pensacola or the dallas.

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Never played the Dallas or the Helena, heard they are pretty good though. I got the Cleveland which is probably one of the best silver cruisers at tier 8 right now and I fully recomend it. Can't comment overly much on the rest of them but they rely more on proper positioning and island cover in order to bring out their full potential.

 

The Pensacola (or Pepsicola) I have played though, and it is  more of the standard heavy cruiser line. The Pensacola get 203 mm guns at tier 6 with the trademark US heavy AP (better penetration and they are more effective against angled targets essentially). The Pepsi is IMO a really good cruiser for tier 6. It is squishy and has a huge citadel, but:

 

- It is really nimble. It has the tightest turning circle of the tier 6 tech tree cruisers and the second best rudder shift. Dodging torpedoes and shells is fairly easy and manuvering in tighter spaces is pretty comfortable. Speed is on the lower end with 32 knots but it is manageble.

 

- Firepower. 10 203 mm guns with the superheavy AP and pretty good HE means you have the heaviest broadside among the tier 6 cruisers. Your AP will obliterate anything that gives you broadside and even battleships will have to angle against you. The HE does solid damage with a pretty good firechance so if targets angle you are never useless. Turret traverse sucks though, at 45 seconds. Expert Marksman is a must have, and the 15 second reload is also pretty painful at times.

 

- The AA on the Pepsi is also really good. Your long range AA has the highest damage and your mid to close range AA is very powerful. Add defensive AA on top of that and you will eat planes. Biggest limitation is the range however. In order to be a somewhat decent escort AA range module is a must (not that there is anything better really in that slot).

 

All in all the Pepsi is a pretty good early heavy cruiser, with clear downsides (gun handling, armor) but also some definite strenghts. Which ship you should go for, well it all depens id you either want to just try out the ships or have the Worcester or Des Moines as an end goal. My tip would be to get both if you really can't decide, but if you look at it this way, the Pensacola is pretty representative of a heavy cruiser, and the Dallas is very much a light cruiser. Playing either of them will give you an idea how the following ships will play.

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Dallas sucks quite badly compared with the Cleveland (when it was tier 6). However Helena looks quite fun (I wish to have the money to buy the ARA 9 de Julio).

 

I suggest you to hit the test server where you can use them (both tier 6 and 7 USN cruisers) without having to spend any grind and money. There is currently a test server going on, but I don't recall which tiers they are using right now.

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Dallas has a similar playstyle to Omaha.

Pensacola is much more sluggish with turrets as slow as on Battleships. But she has the bigger guns.

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Go for the heavy cruiser line (the pensacola one).

I believe theh are much easier to play, especially for new players because they have slightly more armor and much better guns

 

I can't speak for the dallas or the helena, but personally I find cleveland to be really crappy, especially if you don't have IFHE, while all heavy cruisers are amazing due to their monster AP damage.

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CA line - the one that ends with De Moines.

CL line is situational, specialized, and has the same guns from T6 all the way to T10.

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13 hours ago, Sargento_YO said:

Dallas sucks quite badly compared with the Cleveland (when it was tier 6). However Helena looks quite fun (I wish to have the money to buy the ARA 9 de Julio).

 

I suggest you to hit the test server where you can use them (both tier 6 and 7 USN cruisers) without having to spend any grind and money. There is currently a test server going on, but I don't recall which tiers they are using right now.

Well lets hit the test server then. If they are using this tier, might as well try there.

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If I were you I recommend building up more player experience in your current tier spread. Grind the German and IJN cruiserlines to 5 before proceeding OP. Same goes for your BB's and DD's. Learning to know other lines/ shiptypes will only give you an advantage later on higher tiers. You get the point on spot: once you have the feeling you are the b*tch slapper you have the knack of the ship. Rushing through the tiers will bite you in the tail (as I found out the hard way). Heck even try a few CV games (in COOP if necessary) just to get an idea how they are played.
Regarding your question. If Omaha suites you well and if you insist of getting to higher tiers in a rush I recommend the light line (Dallas a.s.o.). Remember: after Omaha torpedoes are past tense in the US silver cruiser lines.

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Pensacola is very much like Omaha. It is manoeuvrable , has good AA, strong guns and an enormous citadel. Even though it is a much stronger ship at Tier VI than VII, it is still a target the second it fires. Every BB player sees it as a freebie kill. The skill level is high and you will know if you aren't ready to play it. I would say it's not the ideal next step.... The ships in the line above it, though, are great. New Orleans is a massive improvement. 

 

Dallas is a vanilla light cruiser and an ideal trainer. It has no smoke, no torps, no gimmicks. If you open fire without having cover handy, or without having mastered dodging (clue: speed is as important as direction) then you will get properly whacked. It's how light cruisers play, though, so take it on and don't play any others until you've mastered it. The next tier up - Helena - is a 15 gun firebreather, and worth the grind.

 

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For newbies I would recommend the Heavy line AKA down the Pensacola.

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Am 10.8.2018 um 22:50, robijn17 sagte:

I would like to here the experience other people have with these boats before i sink 40k xp and find out i got the wrong one.

40 K XP is nothing.

OK, it is a little harder without a premium account, I realize that. But especially now with the Go Navy! Event, you get lots of these containers, and lots of loyalty tokens you can convert into containers in teh Arsenal, and that way you get lots of power camos and enhanced experience signal flags.

With these, grinding 40K in an Omaha is, like, three hours tops.

So of course get both.

The key difference is the guns.

Dallas as a light cruiser fires lighter slower shells in higher arcs, so the typical game play is parking behind an island and raining down HE. Also good for hunting DDs, protecting BBs from DDs and doing air defense, because you can equip Defensive AA, Hydro and a cataputl fighter all at the same time.

Pensacola has heavier shells and flatter trajectories, lending itself more to a direct-fire role. Fairly fast ship, when shooting her, I usually tend to give too little lead initially. More penetration means she can hurt BBs superstructure badly with AP and citadel any cruiser easily. AA is a bit weaker that Dallas I think, but still serious. However, you need to get the B hull as soon as possible because the A-Hull is extremely squishy. Also you need to learn very careful positioning because giving the slightest bit of broadside is immediately fatal. Also because verybody knows her reputation for squishiness, everbody loves to shoot her, so best not be seen.

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21 hours ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

40 K XP is nothing.

OK, it is a little harder without a premium account, I realize that. But especially now with the Go Navy! Event, you get lots of these containers, and lots of loyalty tokens you can convert into containers in teh Arsenal, and that way you get lots of power camos and enhanced experience signal flags.

With these, grinding 40K in an Omaha is, like, three hours tops.

So of course get both.

The key difference is the guns.

Dallas as a light cruiser fires lighter slower shells in higher arcs, so the typical game play is parking behind an island and raining down HE. Also good for hunting DDs, protecting BBs from DDs and doing air defense, because you can equip Defensive AA, Hydro and a cataputl fighter all at the same time.

Pensacola has heavier shells and flatter trajectories, lending itself more to a direct-fire role. Fairly fast ship, when shooting her, I usually tend to give too little lead initially. More penetration means she can hurt BBs superstructure badly with AP and citadel any cruiser easily. AA is a bit weaker that Dallas I think, but still serious. However, you need to get the B hull as soon as possible because the A-Hull is extremely squishy. Also you need to learn very careful positioning because giving the slightest bit of broadside is immediately fatal. Also because verybody knows her reputation for squishiness, everbody loves to shoot her, so best not be seen.

40k still sound a lot to me and i normally play 1,5 h in a weekend. But yeah flags/camo do help i try to use them according the wiki. Just need a little more experience boating this boat. I'm still making the hey-guys-omaha-broadside/free-citadel-right-here error.

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14 hours ago, robijn17 said:

I'm still making the hey-guys-omaha-broadside/free-citadel-right-here error.

AS there are more ships in the beginning you WILL be making that mistake all the time...

You cannot angle to all of them, somebody will have a broadside to shoot at.

 

Try the RN cruisers and you will learn that very quickly... also, what you will learn:

- NEVER sail in a straight line (even when not detected, I don't do it...) navigate by 'Q and E' always swerving...

- NEVER just smack full speed at the start of the game and then leave it.... when detected, slow sometimes... 

Doing that saves me 50% of getting deleted because:

--> even if you are NOT detected, the moment you get detected, and they see you are turning, haf the BBs do not fire...

--> and IF you get detected, and they still decide to fire, they'll miss due to speed variations.

 

Hey they still might get a hit thanks to RNGesus, but, I am a BB player and usually I do not fire at cruisers that are already turning.

But if a cruisre goes in s straight line... yes I'll shoot... even if he is at 20km distance... and very often they get insta-deleted.

Even if they were just visible for a moment, if I can get a good aim --> full BOOM.

 

So first thing when you get detected (yes, also if it was just for a second)--> change speed and direction

 

Hey and of course I also get tunnelvision, when shooting at a DD I often forget...

I'm sure if I always followed my own advice, I'd have 100% survival rate. :fish_boom:

 

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Vor 23 Stunden, robijn17 sagte:

hey-guys-omaha-broadside/free-citadel-right-here error.

Take it a bit slower in the beginning and don't just charge in. Hide behind islands. Cruisers get the more important the longer they survive in a game.

Take pot shots from a distance to annoy people but don't linger and shoot the same guy again - make yourself scarce.

 

Especially as long as you don't have concealment expert captain skill. Once you have that, as a rule, things get a lot more relaxed on most any ship. There are not many ships where other skills would be preferred on a 10-pt captain.

 

Try to position at right angles of the juiciest target of enemy battleships, so they are unwilling to turn the guns to you and you can harrass them free of charge.

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Playing Dallas, it's an okish ship, but I wouldn't recommend it for new players. The ship is not too easy to do well in, especially given Dallas gets matched against T8 often and IFHE becomes a more important skill thus. The Dallas also does not really upgrade the dpm over the Omaha. In fact, you still get your 10 gun broadside, but with half a second longer reload and shell velocity that grants you plenty of time to question your ship line choices in the time it requires to get to target. Lack of torps also is eh, as is the sudden decrease in range.

 

What you get, is basically hydroaccoustic search (you should know that by now from Phoenix and Omaha) and defensive AA (short-term AA boost to kill aircraft) in seperate slots. Dallas does give you an idea of how later ships in the line play like and thus is a decent training ship, but frankly, for your first line to get into higher tiers, pick something other than USN light cruisers. They benefit greatly from experience in cruiser gameplay, awareness of map geography and while with Helena, Cleveland and Worcester, it seems to have strong ships in the line that are also useful in any ranked or Clan battle meta, it is very easy to get killed in them too.

 

As others said, USN heavy cruisers are a better line, before grinding light cruisers, or grind another nation's line. Maybe even other classes. I'd say, play something else for sure before getting to T8, as it helps a lot to know the game from multiple perspectives and learning the different mechanics and how ships interact with each other.

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16 hours ago, Riselotte said:

or grind another nation's line. Maybe even other classes. I'd say, play something else for sure before getting to T8, as it helps a lot to know the game from multiple perspectives and learning the different mechanics and how ships interact with each other.

 

These are very wise words. @robijn17 you'll have already noticed that MM got nastier when you hit T5 (T4 and lower only see +1 tier ships; at T5, it changes to +2). There is a lot to be said for playing several different nations/classes up to T4, just to get a sense of how they all work; you won't get a huge sense of each nation's flavour at lower tiers, but it will help with things like refining map awareness, aiming etc.

 

Once you've got that down, I'd suggest pushing a few lines to T5, and beyond; a slower advance up the tiers will obviously take longer, but you'll become a better player as a result.

 

Bear in mind: the 'point' of the game is not to get to T10 as quickly as possible; whilst there are a couple of game modes that require high tier ships, there is still a huge amount to do at mid tiers, so take your time...

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Am 19.8.2018 um 23:27, Riselotte sagte:

The Dallas also does not really upgrade the dpm over the Omaha. In fact, you still get your 10 gun broadside,

Yeah, Omaha doesn't have a 10-gun broadside as such though. Even with the B-Hull, while it has ten guns, the most of them you can ever even theoretically shoot at any one target at the same time are eight. And most of the time you don't want to do that because that's the citadel invitation. Especially because, due to the flatter trajectories, you also can't shoot over islands that well.

 

Dallas, in contrast, does actually have an actual 10-gun broadside, with a decetn turret rotation and good firing angles. And that means you can shoot all those guns at the same target nearly all of the time, with minimal risk of punishment. So in practical terms, the dpm upgrade is actually fairly huge.

 

I don't really know why but I like Dallas a lot better than I ever liked the Tier VI Cleveland. To my mind, the biggest drawback compared to Omaha is the lack of  even short-range YOLO torpedoes.

 

Incidentally, to the OP, you want to stick with the B-Hull Omaha, which has two more guns and two more torpedo launchers and it's not worth losing those over the minimal AA gain.

 

And watch the relevant Flamu videos, they're mostly really good. Only today, he released a new one on the Tier VI Pensacola.

 

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11 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Yeah, Omaha doesn't have a 10-gun broadside as such though. Even with the B-Hull, while it has ten guns, the most of them you can ever even theoretically shoot at any one target at the same time are eight. And most of the time you don't want to do that because that's the citadel invitation. Especially because, due to the flatter trajectories, you also can't shoot over islands that well.

 

Dallas, in contrast, does actually have an actual 10-gun broadside, with a decetn turret rotation and good firing angles. And that means you can shoot all those guns at the same target nearly all of the time, with minimal risk of punishment. So in practical terms, the dpm upgrade is actually fairly huge.

 

I don't really know why but I like Dallas a lot better than I ever liked the Tier VI Cleveland. To my mind, the biggest drawback compared to Omaha is the lack of  even short-range YOLO torpedoes. (Incidentally, to the OP, you want to stick with the B-Hull Omaha, which has two more guns and two more torpedo launchers and it's not worth losing those over the minimal AA gain.)

I realised that afterwards, though, Omaha has actually 12 guns overall on the B-hull. 4 casemates per side, two twin turrets. Also worth noting, the dpm upgrade still is miniscule, because the reload is longer, and, while the Omaha can point 6 guns forward or aft, Dallas can point only 5. dallas can bow-tank though vs other cruisers, Omaha cannot.

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Vor 54 Minuten, Riselotte sagte:

the dpm upgrade still is miniscule,

Have you actually played Dallas? Because I don't get that impression. What yo say is all theoretical. In practice, you can keep all those guns firing constantly while angled.

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7 minutes ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

Have you actually played Dallas? Because I don't get that impression. What yo say is all theoretical. In practice, you can keep all those guns firing constantly while angled.

Yes, yes, I have. And it isn't theoretical, You can keep all ten guns firing while angled on Dallas, but you also can keep 8 guns firing while angled in Omaha. The reload is 7 seconds for Omaha and 8.5 seconds for Dallas, on paper and in practice (until AR kicks in). The Omaha has faster shell velocity though, so it is easier to hit, but it's not terribly hard for Dallas either, so disregarding that, the Omaha has 68.56 shells per minute from 8 guns, Dallas has 70.58. You might agree that a ~3% increase is not exactly anything major. Shell damage is the same for both, so it doesn't matter.

Spoiler

5b7c410c491fe_Cruiserstats.thumb.png.714918f4c929bb0574e93ee8ef5769e4.png

 

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Vor 21 Minuten, Riselotte sagte:

but you also can keep 8 guns firing while angled in Omaha. 

  Inhalte verstecken

 

I will concede that from memory, Omaha seemed to have far worse angles.

Still, the difference feels fairly significant to me, especially to the rear, and also Dallas has a smaller citadel which is better armoured.

Even if you include its turret barbettes. It just feels safer.

Also I probably don't mind the slow shells so much after a crap ton of Atlanta games.

 

Dallas_fwd.jpg

Dallas_rear.jpg

Omaha_fwd.jpg

Omaha_rear.jpg

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4 hours ago, Nautical_Metaphor said:

I will concede that from memory, Omaha seemed to have far worse angles.

Still, the difference feels fairly significant to me, especially to the rear, and also Dallas has a smaller citadel which is better armoured.

Even if you include its turret barbettes. It just feels safer.

Also I probably don't mind the slow shells so much after a crap ton of Atlanta games.

 

Dallas_fwd.jpg

Dallas_rear.jpg

Omaha_fwd.jpg

Omaha_rear.jpg

I mean, frankly speaking, Omaha and Dallas have so little armour, you basically don't angle to bounce, you angle to reduce the amount of target area. And when you swing the ship around, Dallas needs far longer to get the majority of its guns on target, while the Omaha almost never has an issue getting at least 6 pointing there. And it doesn't matter if it "feels" like significantly more, when it isn't really significantly more.

 

And on Dallas being "safer"... I did say Dallas was better armoured. But that does not make the dpm any better.

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On 8/18/2018 at 12:27 AM, Skiie said:

For newbies I would recommend the Heavy line AKA down the Pensacola.

I have to agree because  the cl line requires IFHE skill if you dont have the captain for it you are screwed.

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